[00:00:00] Tayson: Everybody welcome back to the live ultralight podcast powered by outdoor vitals. Today, we have a very special guest Mr. Shaun Durkee from alpen fuel on the podcast to talk about his creation alpen fuel breakfast meals. Now these have been some of my favorite meals ever since I first met him in February of 2021. I can honestly say that I I don't think I've backpacked a single time without utilizing one of his meals since I first met him and and got his product, it's been an amazing product. We'd go into the details of why I love it. Why? It's one of our best selling meals inside the live ultralight membership. And I think you guys are going to really enjoy this podcast and just learn a little bit about what it takes. And, you know, his thought process behind the meals that he did create. Now, I do need to call out really quick and just say that if you are not familiar with the live Ultra Lite membership, you need to be it is the cheapest way to purchase backpacking food. Period. Period, right? You're going to be able to get your hands on the food at a 10% discount. Plus we give rebates back when you're buying retail items. Which would be food through that live ultralight membership. So you literally can't buy meals at a cheaper price than joining the live ultralight membership and the best part about joining that liberal chart membership. Is 10 bucks a month and it instantly strands transfers into store credit. So you you're not losing any money as long as you are. Just gonna order some backpacking meals this year. You are you are in the green, you are you're doing well with this program so if you're not familiar with it, go check out the live ultralight membership. Again very very excited to have Sean on the podcast. We had a phenomenal discussion, talk about all things nutrition and what what it really takes to fuel your body during long. Backpacking adventures with that. We'll go ahead and roll this conversation. All right, Sean, I'm super happy to have you on the podcast today. How's it going? Good,
[00:02:09] Shaun: thanks for having me on. I know, we just ran into each other down in Salt Lake and trying to recover from that and hit the ground running the sweet. So I appreciate you having me on Yeah,
[00:02:20] Tayson: I'm sorry for you that she had to go back to the, the cold winter of Montana but I guess she's used to live there regardless.
[00:02:29] Shaun: I grew up here so I don't know any better.
[00:02:33] Tayson: Yeah, I've been here and just we met it up out of the show and man, it just sounded so cold and miserable to talk to people from Montana and Wyoming especially like the last two, three weeks. It just got soda and cold up there. But
[00:02:48] Shaun: yeah, I about a week ago right before I left, I had to get my dog out for a walk. I was just Going crazy inside but I I drove out to the river and walked him and it was about 15 below with wind chill. So it was just Just nasty, but gotta get out sometimes. And now today it's 45 and sunny so you never know what you'll get
[00:03:09] Tayson: Right. Well that's good. That's I just in my head picture it is just always ice cold up there. So 45 that's pretty manageable.
[00:03:19] Shaun: Yeah.
[00:03:21] Tayson: Yeah. Yeah. so, I'm interested to hear what drove you to start an entire business making backpacking Foods. Specifically, you know, at least right now, as far as I know, you know, you're you're really focusing on these kind of more breakfast meals granola you're getting massive amounts of calories in those. And, you know, for that reason, it's been ever since we met and we started to sell your food. I don't know that. I've I've had anything else for breakfast on trail in like that's probably been two plus years now. Like never like that's like been the staple for me, just because there is so many dating calories. They're so light like calorie per ounce is so good and then and then they're really tasty, right? But I'm curious what drove you to initially get started in even starting to formulate something for this niche.
[00:04:19] Shaun: the question and if we would have known, How difficult maybe the food segment was? I don't know if we would have jumped into it right away, but it we're kind of accidental. Entrepreneurs. So I have a engineering background, I went to Montana State and graduated in 2006. And then work for the Boeing Company in Seattle for two years, and then found my way back to Montana. I always wanted to come back my family's here and I love the hunting and fishing and backpacking opportunities. So I I got married had kids and and then I was working for a company called FLIR Systems and they make laser rangefinders for the military. So I I was helping as a manufacturing manager of eventually, I worked my way up to that role and then It was a really great position, but I got frustrated, I guess with working in a corporate environment and it was more of a tech world. So it's very competitive, very fast-paced, extremely stressful. So I when I was a manager there, I had about 20 people under me, and I was losing a lot of weight, just stressed out constantly meeting quarterly deadlines, and just, we should Precision components. And so I I was talking with my wife about starting maybe something that was something I enjoyed a lot more and and we started to open fuel January 1st of 2019. So at that time it was a weekend and night side gig and we sold backpacking meals for small companies as a dealer. So the companies we carry it at the time were Heather's Choice Peak. Refuel, that was back. When both of those companies were a little smaller. They hadn't gotten into REI yet. So we wanted to have a niche where we made or we were just a dealer with really good quality food and we actually did two ideas at once we had the food dealership, I guess through an online store, but we all so sold subscription box and that most people don't realize that it. And that's because it flocked terribly. We sold. That for it was a ten month project and it was losing money every month. And we finally Asked that and decided, let's just focus on our food store. So our best month we might have sold nine subscriptions, it was just a dismal failure. But through that we made good connections with folks. Some of these brands for for giveaways and certain things so that was the start of the business was just a year and a half of our online food store. and, Fast forward to Summer of 2020, everyone remembers that you're pretty well. And I had been frustrated at my job, I had been talking with my boss and saying I I'd like to move on. And they they understood and it was a mutual agreement. I I just needed to find a position and wasn't able to find one. So I kept staying there kept saying there and I trained my replacement and everything. I was ready to move on and then covid hit and our military contracts were stable, but a lot of the other medical and Industrial laser contracts, we had fell away, so they laid off multiple people from the business and I was one that got let go. So that was July 3rd 2020. And at that point I had the heart heart with my wife saying, what do we do now? I've been looking for a different position for a few years. We've got this little side business. That's really small. And my wife said, if you don't try and grow that business, you're gonna regret it. You've always wanted to be an entrepreneur. So We decided in order to scale the business and eventually make a living from it. We would need to make our own food products. So we had a little bit of a severance package. From the company. So we just dug in and made four recipes of backpacking breakfast. Something that we thought filled a niche that we could get off the ground quickly. And so that was the push four months of that. And then in October 2020 we launched our our own brand, we'd been set up as a food manufactured on all the Licensing, gotten inspection at a rented kitchen. So on so forth. So it was just a big push to get the new products off the ground and and now to two and a half years past that, and we've got six flavors and we're building our own commercial kitchens. So we can expand and things are going in the right direction. So, it's been a interesting Journey here, the last several years.
[00:09:08] Tayson: So that must mean then that I found you guys in about February of 2021 and I don't that's I probably from that time on. I have been taking your your breakfast on every single backpacking trip that I go on. that so I I didn't realize I guess that it only been that long and that we found you that quickly after after launch but So just say to kind of feel go backwards just a little bit. So when you were selling the food I mean you got started with these breakfast meals. Is that primarily just because you saw the opportunity there like you didn't have to have maybe freeze dryer. Some of those types of things or were you still freeze drying product? Or was there was there, some level of like even just awkward opportunistic approach to that or
[00:09:55] Shaun: it's a lot? Yeah, several things one, What is the product that we can get off the ground, the quickest, which was something that didn't require freeze, drying, like investing in freeze drying equipment. so, we were renting, commercial kitchen, space locally and they had Convection ovens. And we wanted to make something that we could make quickly. That was scalable. So with my background in manufacturing, I I wanted something that's simple and scalable and kind of, we had a list of all the boxes that we wanted to check and so part of its been me being a nerdy engineer background. We didn't After talking with a few, folks about freeze drying and just understanding that process. It didn't seem like there was A viable freeze dryer that we could use to scale up. It seems like there's entry level machines that you can buy at Home Depot and then massive equipment. That's tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousand dollars. So there wasn't a happy medium that we could find. And once you introduce meat into the equation, you get the FDA involved for inspections it's everyone, we talked to said, whatever you do. Don't put me in your product that just opens a big can of worms, so we kept it. Super simple. Something that we could get tested with me get the labels designed and approved by the state and out the door. So we went from Oh crap, what just happened? I'm laid off to launching food products with UPC, labels available for wholesale within four months. So we we just put everything we had in to get that product line off the ground as quick as possible. So I don't know if that answers your question but we we wanted to stay away from freeze drying. Just for the simplicity's sake, and the cost sake. and this is, we also felt there was a big need in the Kit or excuse me in the breakfast Market. It seems most brands have a few breakfasts, and they're developed kind of as an afterthought. So we thought we could be different in that field.
[00:12:01] Tayson: yeah, I think that's kind of my next question, really is just Like what is it? What does it take to build a backpacking meal like where did your ideas come from of as far as like what you want to build and why you want to build that?
[00:12:16] Shaun: great question in my we had brands that we've sold through our online store where they had a similar maybe granola me all that you could add hot or cold water to and that was a revelation for me to know that. Oh, I don't have to bring along just instant oatmeal, where you can only add hot water. It doesn't reconstitute with cold. So, a product that I could do either, Was was fascinating and we thought, well, there's a lot of granola meals on the breakfast or excuse me on the market with Mountain House, Peak refuel backpacker's, Pantry. There's a lot of people that do granola but They're mainly carbs and sugar so what can we do to make an endurance type breakfast? That's That will work and give you hours of sustained energy. So the ease and simplicity, as well as trying to optimize the macros for people that are relying on these meals day in and day out. So we we just went through and developed our checklist and started trying to tailor the meals to be as versatile as we could.
[00:13:25] Tayson: It just seems like you're you're very systematic in all of these approaches, which is really good, right? Because For my experience, with running a business and talking with a lot of business owners. When you get to emotional, especially to emotional too quickly, right? Everything can just start flying, you know, can go out the wrong way, right? Because the end of the day, you have to be profitable, you have to, you know, have have a repeatable system, you know, and so on so forth but I think that's kind of the biggest thing that attracted me. And really the rest the outer Idol's team to help them fuel meals was one there. I mean, they're like five ounces on average per meal. But let me and let me pull it up here. You're looking at like a five ounce meal. I have cold water too. and you're getting 700 calories, you know, somewhere in the 600s I think but my favorite one is the What is it? Caramel apple flavor and getting 700 plus calories and you know while I'm at my own house you know at home or on a regular basis? I I skip breakfast a lot like all. Or all I'll go do my morning workout and I'll have like a protein shake and then I'll just go to lunch. But when you're out on trail, you know, especially the way that we end up on trail a lot, which is Logging big miles, you know, 20 to 25 Mi days and what not being able to get up and instantly get food into your body. Before you start going, has has been a big factor in that because really when you're logging that many miles in a day specialty in rough training or High Country, Just getting as much calorie into your body as possible is a really important thing, right? Because you're burning you're never gonna be able to eat as much as you are burning in those scenarios. And so, starting off the day with Cal, just really seems to be a massive benefit. But if I'm starting off the day with just like, you know, those what 50 Cent baggies of oatmeal, or if I'm starting off the day with, you know, just a random like just a bar, you know, that's it's just not enough sustenance in my opinion and for me to get the day started off, right? Absolutely. And
[00:15:43] Shaun: I'm not giving my wife enough credit here. I've been saying we here and there but really I I had in mind a breakfast that that checked some of these boxes as a Backpacker Hunter. Something that you can do with the cold hot water or something. That's a meal bag. That's short enough that you don't get your hands messy when you're eating it little I had in mind what what the product should look like and and those check boxes but my wife really Took the I had maybe a few ideas of what to do this granola or that granola flavor. But my wife, our top three selling flavors of all, been her developments from scratch. Like, even the flavors that I came up with, she would say no need to pair with this or we need to add this spice or do that. Or let's tweak the brown sugar or whatever so she she brought them up. Magnitudes from where they were. So that's, that's all my life. It's that did all that. The caramel apple she came up with in a weekend, which is our best-selling flavor by 2x. Like, she's We had made all of the other flavors and at that point we were we'd made thousands of pouches. So we knew kind of how to make granola at that point but that final flavor came from from her just riffing on what we had in the past. So it's definitely been a collaboration between myself and her. But
[00:17:07] Tayson: She's done a phenomenal job because the flavor's, I've liked all of them. I like that, caramel, caramel apple and it's just soaking. Good, everyone's father, you just get a bite. That's just, like, seems like it's a lot of caramel and a lot of Apple in its and its really, really good. But you have some really unique flavors as well. Which I mean, I may have to have you run through those at some point but or I will post show. But yeah, I mean just just super, super good. So so kudos to her on what she's she's put together. The other thing that I just have to give you guys kudos for, is you made a backpacking meal that you actually have to add water to and the packaging isn't four times bigger than it needs to be. Like yeah, it drives me nuts. I mean, we're we sell a lot of peak refuel, we do rep mountain house and we have, you know, and then we're always kind of on the lookout for other things, but packaging is huge. And even when you talk to some of these companies about it, like the answer, they pretty much gave you is like it's for Branding, not for performance, you know,
[00:18:12] Shaun: they just want more shelf, space Maybe.
[00:18:15] Tayson: Basically. Yeah. Basically they're like well how can we get all the messaging we want on a smaller bag? And I'm like, I don't care when I'm on a trip and I look around at my employees and people were backpacking with and they've repackaged your meals into Ziplocs because you're stinking bags. Are so huge. That's a problem. Like that's anyways. So I really appreciate that. You're you're meals and your size is are are adequate. They're not too big and it just drives me nuts because I know you got like you have to add a little bit of water and you have to make it. But even then like most these guys could cut their packaging in half and it would still be adequate for for function. But I got to give you just some Kudos on that. As far as As far as like the Cal itself, right? Because like, you look at oatmeal. You look at just like your typical granolas and stuff. How are you guys managing to get so many calories in five oz packet? Is that, is that from adding fats, right?
[00:19:12] Shaun: Yes, it's, it's magic. Really? No, thanks for touching on the small size. We really wanted to emphasize that and people when they walk up to our booth, they say, like what's I didn't realize these were so small and you can fold them in half and jam them in your backpack and they take up no room at all. So, I'm glad that you are
[00:19:33] Tayson: that people are noticing that it's gotta say too. I I picked the wrong day to do this podcast because I've been I've been calorie counting and trying to cut some holiday weight and I've been doing like a once a week. Fast and that happened to be today and I am so dating hungry just talking about these people. So anyways,
[00:19:59] Shaun: the calories we we talked with someone I met years ago. Who is a friend? He I met him at a, just a hunting get together and didn't know who he was at the time, took his card and and then years later got back in touch with him and said, hey, remember me, I'm he's a nutrition coach for endurance athletes and so he's coaching cyclists and Ultra Runners and I sat down with him and said, we're trying to make what we were looking at a meal bar at the time before we got into the granola, we were just Throwing ideas out there. And I said, what type of macro breakout should I have fat protein and carbs? So For an endurance type hiking athlete like a through hiker who's doing 20 plus miles a day or Hunter, who's burning 4 to 6000 calories in climbing a bunch of vertical. Like the nutrition requirements are way different for that individual then Even. Someone running a 20K or something, where they just need as many carbs as possible. They're done in a matter of hours or minutes. And the races over with. with folks out in the field all day, they're more of a Sustained energy crowd, so the fat and the protein become very important. And so we, we weren't able to hit his targets. Exactly. But we definitely did our best and so that breakout just means a lot more fat and a lot more protein. So, when you're looking at At calories per gram with carbs, you get five calories per gram with protein, you get five calories per gram and with fat, you get nine calories per gram. So the obvious mathematical answer to boost calories is put as much fat in there as possible. So We use a lot of nuts with. So the other brands, that with their granola being more carbs and sugar, they're using oats and freeze-dried fruit and some type of sweetener, but Pretty much, none of them are using nuts and the reason they don't probably is one, they're expensive and two. They shortened the shelf life on the meal, and that was trade off, we were willing to make we Thought, well, let's if we're shortening, the shelf life, but improving the nutrition and the calories, that's going to be a win for us and our customers. So, we, we get fat from coconut oil and from nuts and we use All natural sweeteners like Maple Syrup and Honey. So we end up with a meal like our chocolate strawberry is our highest calorie meal at 700 and speed and most people when they flip that package over their eyes bug out because they've never seen a breakfast like that before. So, it's We're able to get energy content where one of the guides that I talked to last week. At the show, he he's around, 200 200 plus pounds and he says, I eat one of your meals in the morning and then I'm good till lunch. So that's a huge Testament for us just the meal that gives you three to four hours of energy is wonderful. And that's, that was what we had in mind.
[Editor’s note: Standard nutrition labeling uses approximately four calories per gram for carbohydrate and protein, and nine calories per gram for fat. The five-calorie figures above are preserved as spoken but are not factually correct.]
[00:23:05] Tayson: Yeah. I mean I think you really do have a phenomenal breakdown there and I think you're spot on, right? Like, if I was gonna get up and go trail running, this probably wouldn't be the meal that I eat. I just looking for quick sugars, quick carbs, but if I'm gonna get up and Hike all day long, it definitely is the meal, right? Like you're breaking down your muscles. If you've got protein in there you need I mean you have like even a lot of sodium and a lot of these you've got and then you've got the fats and I actually was just listening to something this morning that was talking about. Um, what you eat right before exercise can dictate what your body decides to burn as fuel during exercise? So hypothetically, if I got up and ate a bunch of carbs and then I went and exercise, my body will say I have an abundance of carbohydrates, let's burn those. Or if I got up and ate fats, my body would say, I've got an abundance of fats. Let's burn those right? And so it's kind of an interesting concept just going back to what you did because I do think it is the right, you know, macro nutrients. It's the right, the right build for hiking all day long or just putting in bigger miles or bigger vertical climbing and it's just a great way because like you can get up and you can just start hiking, which is what a lot of people do. Um but the reason that I try my best, at least to have a meal. Sometimes I'll start hiking but within one hour, I'll stop and have breakfast on the trail. That's actually one of my favorite ways of doing it, right? If you're logging a 20-mile day, getting even a couple miles in and then stopping for breakfast and and having these more frequent stops, I say frequent stops. But hiking two hours with the break, two hours with the brake jars with the brake makes a 20-mile day. Fill a lot less like you just hiked for six hours straight. And so, a lot of times, we'll get up pack up camp hike for 45 minutes, maybe 60 Minutes, stop and eat one of these. But, but it allows you to to not be hiking at a massive deficit compared to if I just got up ate a bar, and then, you know, when I was hungry, maybe had a another bar and then went to lunch. You, you're already creating a deficit early in the day of calories and nutrients. But then you have to combat all day. And then hopefully when you go to sleep, you know, your body can reset all that. But anyways, that that's been a big part of what I what I see is like one just getting this calories in but two I think there is a big Advantage for the breakdown. He has a bill
[00:25:26] Shaun: and one other comment that I will make, there are a few breakfast out there. How that are super high calorie one like a lot of the maybe biscuits and gravy might be higher
[00:25:38] Tayson: in calories. There's some browser dinners. What are you talking about?
[00:25:41] Shaun: The point I wanted to make is with ours, we use a cup of granola and then all the pouches have powdered milk in them. So what you have is a meal that Everybody. It seems can tolerate some type of breakfast cereal or oatmeal without stomach distress, but if you're Say you're you're hiking or hunting a 4,000 foot climb that you have with lots of switchbacks. If you eat one of our meals that sits light in your stomach and gives you sustained energy and it's with a biscuits and gravy something like that is maybe three times the volume in your stomach and you may be paying for it down the road. So our our meals are approachable and they don't cause a lot of stomach issues.
[00:26:27] Tayson: Yeah, I can I can definitely test that. Like, I can't handle eating. I couldn't handle eating like a biscuits and gravy, or something like that, right? Out of the gate in the morning. I just wouldn't be able to get it down. Personally. Usually your meals are about the limit, like, that's about as much as I can eat, you know, early on in the morning. And so it's, it's been been the right, you know, make up for me, but Yeah, there's no way I could put down like a 1000 calorie biscuits and gravy or, or even just considering like, like the breakfast scrambles, right? I don't know. I haven't looked at the breakdown of those but well, they're about I've been some of their least favorite meals that I've had from any any manufacturer even even like Peak refuel who's Who's like my preferred entree? I mean there's just everything they have is so good. I still just I've never been able to eat those, they don't sit well my stomach. So yeah, I just work for me,
[00:27:24] Shaun: don't have a lot of calories either. So you get a tremendous amount of volume without they're about. 650 calories, I think per pouch. But again, the volumes High,
[00:27:33] Tayson: yeah, that might be the only one too. That you add like a lot more water to almost two cups or something. Whereas whereas in some other ones, it's not quite that much water. So it is just a lot of volume. That's an interesting way to look at it. It's just the volume that you have to to get into your stomach and then start moving with, right? Yeah. Super super interesting stuff. And I think, I think people should definitely pay attention to just to all of this right? Like feeling on the trail is such a massive part of what's going to make you feel good. What's going to keep you going day after day? What's going to make you, you know, hypothetically not get off Trail or come back early or anything like that by taking care of all these things early on, instead of, you know, getting behind and then struggling and then and then starting to tap out of your trip early. But
[00:28:21] Shaun: yeah, and a lot of people may not think about the value in it, or even, We've had many people come up with shows they'll say oh so you guys just make granola or just make breakfast or and and we say no it's not just granola. This is markedly different in. Every way from everything that's on the market we've like you have picked up and appreciate on lot of the nuances on what we're trying to do. But a lot of folks that may go over their head and you know, but we're our meals aren't for every single person out there. Some you know, or we're going after folks that can appreciate the high calories and the good macros and and folks that really Want to dial in their food prep. yeah, I mean
[00:29:08] Tayson: One. So I I've got to think here just a little bit just about like what what the listeners need to take away from some of this stuff, right? You know how does this how does this really apply to them one? You know good nutrients and things but also From like we talked a little bit about packaging and stuff. And other thing for me though is just I don't have to cook your meal. In fact, I don't know if I've ever, I was just thinking about that. I'm like, I don't know if I've ever actually put warm or hot water into one of your meals. I just, you know, use a basically a half of half a cup of cold water and and it's it's good, right? But I think that's that's one pickup is just that it's super easy to make these on the trail. but, and you're I guess I guess is there other things that that people listen to this podcast or that you through your seat at a backpacking food company, you know, other things other misses you see, consumers making with nutrition on trail, other things to, to know, or to pay attention to
[00:30:13] Shaun: That's a great question. I think people don't. It's it's hard to get enough calories for most people. I know I'm I'm that way when you're burning such a tremendous amount of calories. Maybe you're at elevation a lot of times you just don't feel like eating and so when you do eat you really need good high octane stuff in your stomach. and so, I think, If you're using subpar nutrition and you don't feel like eating you're even that much farther behind the game. So that's Some folks make that mistake for sure. And like you said, if you don't feel like eating in the morning, And you get down the trail then you're you're behind the game too. So Emil with our meals, like you said, you can use them hot or cold water. The Taste I think is just a little bit Amplified when you use the hot water, but they're all delicious cold. So, that's, the other thing that, that this is maybe not completely answering your question, but the taste Of our meals. I feel, I'm obviously biased, but I feel like it's Superior. We were Just just because the ingredients and again, my wife, knowing how to treat things and really put it together. So with our caramel apple, that's our best seller by. We sell two times more of that meal than any of our other flavors but our second place meal, is lemon berry with made with honey and raspberries and blueberries. And that one was awarded Backpacker magazine's, best breakfast of 2022. So we just have a really great slate of meals and they're all The, The Taste on all of them is unique from one another. So you don't really get tired of them on a long journey.
[00:31:57] Tayson: Yeah. And just do a test of that to one of our team members, who's I don't call them a small fry, but he's a little bit smaller than my size. He'll eat. Your, your Alpine fuel meals as like a lunch or something like that because they're big enough for him to be really be a full email of the day or even a dinner. I've seen him a lot at dinner time, just because it's kind of, it's plenty of food and calories for him for dinner. I think that's kind of an interesting thing, but So for you, Sean, when you're getting outside, what are you typically doing? I know, I know that your Sportsman, but are you backpacking much are you log in day like big mild days, or you going fishing? Like what's kind of your favorite way to get
[00:32:44] Shaun: outside? That's great question. I grew up. And on I guess in Montana. So I grew up Hunting Fishing and backpacking. I started backpacking when I was around 15 and so that's been kind of the main, the main stage for me, and what the activity. I enjoy the most probably and tying that in with fishing, as well, but I try and do at least one a couple. If I can longer trips in the Bear Tooth mountains here in Montana. So, I'll do a big loop and just try and hit as many lakes as I can for fly fishing for a golden trout, Cutthroats and, and brook trout. So, I do a lot of that. And then some backpack hunting in the fall for mule deer. And then just camping with my family. I've got a wife and two kids and we all enjoy getting out taking the dog in the camper and just finding a small stream that we can count by and fish. So I'm I dabble in a lot of things I guess. I do some Backcountry skiing. And just any way I can to get outside and kind of recharge as what I try and do.
[00:33:57] Tayson: When you're going out on maybe some of your more strenuous Adventures of that's like a backpack hunt or or maybe these Loops in the Sawtooth mountains or Bear Tooth Fairy. That's just that What is that? What is a day full of food? Look like to you like just walk us through with that might be.
[00:34:19] Shaun: Yeah this is always a fascinating question. I Oh good question for breakfast. Obviously one of our meals with a couple of instant coffee and maybe a little bit of dried mangoes And that's how to trade mangoes.
[00:34:38] Tayson: And then it was just those are all day long. You gotta keep us like impressed by all day long.
[00:34:42] Shaun: I don't think I carry any other dried fruit. That's just the mangoes for me and I don't really eat them any other time. It's just when I'm backpacking. And then I have like a quart Ziploc bag that's just full of random stuff. So my lunch is always snacking. I don't sit down and prepare lunch. If I'm hiking, I eat on the trail. If I'm fishing, I eat while I'm fishing so I can fish more. so, I never do a cooked breakfast or lunch, it's Peanut M&M's, Jerky more mangoes. I like Velveeta breakfast bars or some type of granola bar or Pro bar. All that jammed into a bag that I eat throughout the day. And then for dinner. I do Peak refuel for, like, their Chicken pesto pasta. I really like the beef marinara and like the yeah, those are 900 calories plus meals. So I love those and then there's a few other small brands that I carry Bush. Because kitchen is one there from San Francisco. They have a lot of unique meals. And yeah, that's the main thing for me. And sometimes I carry A few bites of like, nice premium chocolate
[00:35:56] Tayson: to eat before I go to bed, but that's just gonna ask. Like, what's your, what's your like, unhealthy dessert after dinner? You know, it seems like that's at least it around here. It's like that's our one thing is We're all, we have finished, we finished, it's like, you get everyone gets out their food, right? And you're all looking around, like, oh yeah, that one's good. That one's good. And then after it's like, okay, what do you? What's the, what's the desert that you have that you've packed? Yeah. So I've had
[00:36:24] Shaun: dark chocolate for me.
[00:36:27] Tayson: That's a good one. Good one for sure. Do you have any you kind of mentioned this earlier just talking about going into high elevation and sometimes losing your appetite? Do you know anything about like why that is or, you know, have you dealt with that very much yourself?
[00:36:46] Shaun: Yeah, I guess the reasoning behind it or the science behind that. I'm not fully versed on that. But I don't know just the exertion and And whatnot. I I have experienced that I guess I've had altitude sickness back in high school hiking at 10 Mi 10 or 11,000 feet, which is high for Montana, maybe not for Colorado, but I I've experienced it a few times and generally it's it's gone away, but I guess my ability to I'm better about one, making sure that I eat even if I'm not hungry and just eating better quality food as well. So I I don't encounter it as much today as I did say five years ago, but How about you do you have any insight into what? What's going on there?
[00:37:36] Tayson: Well. Not. I mean like, for instance, this last year when we did the Uinta Highline Trail, so it's 110 miles through the winter mountain range here in Utah. Ton of elevation, right? You just add elevation the whole time and then you're doing different exertions. And On. The morning of day three. I started to Kind of fill like not like I didn't really want to eat and then it kind of stayed with me through a lot of the remainder of it. And yeah, the best For my, and this is kind of not an isolated event, but it's, it's the best one to talk through, I guess. You know, it definitely seems to be. I mean, obviously if you're at, if you are actively getting elevation sickness, I think that that directly links into sometimes messing up your your GI, or just developing GI problems. But for this one, I just felt like it was like related to exertion. I the night before we had logged a really hard day because we had started off slow. We had a change in our group and so then we went we were going faster to try to log the miles and then we ended up sleeping where there wasn't water. They're actually was water if I just didn't know it was there until the next morning and I didn't get his hydrated that night. I really focus heavily on hydration at altitude like that's my number one thing it's just I think that's the fastest and quickest linked to getting elevation sickness every time and so I think I got a hair on water not bad though. And then yeah throughout that day got a little worse, little worst little worse. And and it just really felt like any time we were doing High exertion So when we're actively climbing, I'd get really sick to my stomach, we'd get on flat ground, I'd feel just fine. And then a meal times I was, I was struggling at times to to just get food down or to have anything that looked tasty but I also found that I in those moments, I really crave. Items with a lot of fat in them so I'll pack mayonnaise packets. And for some reason, anything like like if I had like a little bit of like like a piece of sausage or something like that or and then I can have mayonnaise on it or cheese with that, you know? Like that is Fact, one of one of My team members here, they basically gave me like, as like a small tortilla with a little bit of cheese sausage and some mayonnaise on it. And I probably would have paid him fifty bucks for just this little tiny thing because it was it just sounded so good to me. So there's something I don't know. So I guess my takeaway from that was just like, no, the more experience you have, the more, you know, what to pack, and it was really dumb of me because I had learned that lesson before. and that my body craved those things that in these situations and I had rushed my, my food prep And gotten just just too lazy with it, and then I didn't pack any of those things. But it is really interesting to me that your body starts to Crave certain things. And those are kind of the only things that that help curve it at elevation. But I don't know. It's just, it's a very, like, interesting situation. I think it might be different for different people. Why, which is why you can't find like hard and fast information out there about it,
[00:40:53] Shaun: right? And I think some folks trying to get tricky like though, They'll buy meals that they haven't tried before or they'll buy a keto meal when they're carb heavy at home and they'll totally switch it up or vice versa, you know. So it's Yeah, it's important to eat maybe things that you're familiar with, or that you've tried and then obviously the like you said, the water, I forgot about that, but that's a huge huge. And great recommendation.
[00:41:21] Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, I kind of I've gotten to the point now where I, if we're bringing anyone like newer to altitude, I'm just like the most badgery person you can probably imagine, because I just see it ruin too many trips ruin their trips but sometimes it derails, the whole the whole group because they don't realize that they're drying out, you know, it's always windy up there so it's yes, blowing, any sweat accumulation off of them. It's oftentimes really sunny. And so I just have no idea that they're drying out at the rate that they are. And then once you start to get dehydrated, you know, elevate it starts elevating, your heart rate, and all these different different factors. But ya know, I just interested, it's I I'm fascinated with going to high elevations so I feel like I have to dig whenever I find someone who might have any information or Um, well, I think we've covered a lot here. I did want to touch on to just what you guys are doing with conservation. You guys obviously are Montana born, you know, just basically born and raised Outdoors. So so what role does conservation play in in your business,
[00:42:32] Shaun: Yes, and thank you for asking. We actually joined up with 2% for conservation before we'd even sold a single product back in 2019. So we thought, well, I am my wife's from Wyoming. I'm from Montana. We've taken a lot of these opportunities for granted and I saw that when I would go to other states or big cities, maybe for work. And just realized maybe how good we have it here. So it it was a mission of ours, from the beginning, my wife and my both agreed. Let's give back part of Our sales to conservation. So we partnered with 2% for conservation and their Their director actually lives not too far from Bozeman, but a lot of larger hunting brands are a part of this organization. Zip code is there's Stone Glacier packs. Etc. So we give back 1% of our sales and 1% of our time every year. So that's obviously a donation back to conservation organizations. We chose A rocky mountain goat Alliance last year, so mountain goat conservation. So we give back kick back as far as our profits go. But then with our volunteering, what that 1% of our time means is about two to three days of volunteering for a brand of our size. And this last year, my daughter who was eight at the time, we went backpacking for two days on a mountain goat survey with the goat Alliance. And so she's eight years old, we packed in five and a half miles, she was a trooper. We got way back in there and we surveyed mountain goats at 10,000 feet right about our camp and it was just a wonderful experience so we're helping local biologists and and hunters and and conservation groups in that manner. So this year going forward will volunteer, hopefully with them again. and we get back to just anything that's Related to wildlife conservation or public, land advocacy is is who we support.
[00:44:34] Tayson: Yeah, that's really fascinating. I didn't realize that with 2% for conservation, it wasn't that it was the one percent of Revenue and 1% of time. That's a really interesting breakdown and it's really great. I mean, just just writing checks is not always the answer, right?
[00:44:51] Shaun: Yes, it's it's we enjoy the just I volunteered with to go to Alliance for three years now on Goat surveys. And I did like Trail maintenance as a volunteer before that, which was great. I enjoyed that but just being out and And we get a chance to give our meals out to everyone that participates in these surveys. So it's there's a little bit of brand advocacy for us, but it's just a great time. My, my daughter talks about that event all the time, like it really made an impression on her and it was her first. Actual backpacking trip, everything fell through before that, so for us to get out it was really special for us.
[00:45:30] Tayson: Yeah. yeah, that's really, really cool and admirable to So I guess just know if you guys are supporting open fuel your also supporting, you know, conservation and of goats which is they need a lot of conservation of some cheap. They really need some help sometimes. So yeah. All right, so let me let me finish off this Sean with what's is there. Anything coming next for alpen fuel? I think you've got six flavors right now. Correct, correct. How are you guys looking to to grow? Are you looking to grow? Are you expanding in any any way?
[00:46:10] Shaun: Yes, we're right in the middle of it right now. So, like you said, six flavors of backpacking meals at this time. We, I alluded to this before, but we're, we're not moving into entrees and or freeze-dried or dinners, or anything of that sort, we A year ago, we started looking into a new commercial kitchen space. And so we last summer signed a lease on a five-year Five-year lease on a new building that was being built, it was supposed to finish in October. But due to supply chain problems, it's been delayed over and over again, we're hoping to get into the new building in March Of this year. So one more month from now and that will be a 2300 square foot manufacturing facility, warehousing office space, all the above. So, we'll take our operation from being an office in my bedroom and shipping out of our garage and renting a kitchen space to an all-in-one facilities. So that's Super exciting. We're basically moved in. We're just waiting on an electrical panel that's refusing to show up. So that's the plan there to get into that facility. And once we're in that, We are working on a snack lineup. It's like a bite-sized energy cookie with Some of the same endurance nutrition that we have in our meals but as a gluten-free cookie, that's really durable for your backpack. So look for that we need to purchase durable as in it's not
[00:47:37] Tayson: just gonna like crumble and fall apart in the packaging. Is that what you mean by correct?
[00:47:41] Shaun: Yes we worked really hard on that. My wife has She been the lead on that project and we've played around with different recipes and designs and we tested it at The Hunting expo here. Last Week's really good reviews. And yes, they we've had had folks, use them in snow machines Rattle and around in Sub-Zero temperatures. So they, you can eat them without breaking your teeth when it's cold out and they hold up the prize and well. So we're super excited to bring those to Market. We just need a, we're trying to procure. Get the equipment to make them and scale because we just can't handle them. It's not not feasible. So look for those. Hopefully this summer coming down the pipeline,
[00:48:31] Tayson: Okay. Well, I'm I'm excited for that. For sure. I've really loved all of the products you guys produce to this point and I'm definitely excited to try these this next line up here. So I'm always interested in more more snack options. So, Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's what it's all about. Really out there the food. I mean, like it's such a delicate balance when you're like an ultralight Backpacker and and what not? Because you're trying to count those Oz, you know, get the highest calorie per ounce or whatnot. But at the same time, Food food can make or break a trip, right? It really can. And so having stuff you really enjoy out there is is critical, right? Even even just the you know, I took my My little five year old boys, six. Now you know out but just having things like those Peak Peak refuel cookie bites you know it's stuff like that and just I bring I bring tons of fruit snacks you know just stuff like that. I mean it makes the trip for him but at the same time it can make a trip for me so I'm no different. I'm just a little older so yeah. I really, really appreciate it. I'm a huge believer in your product and I appreciate your time today, Sean. I hope that everyone that's listening to this will go check out the products. I will give a little more insight on just how we, where you can get it on, for Vital stock. Calm, and yeah, Sean, thanks again for being here.
[00:50:01] Shaun: Awesome. I really appreciate you taking the time and look forward to having a good relationship with you guys going forward.
[00:50:08] Tayson: All right, there you have it. My conversation with Shaun Durkee of alpen fuel again. I fully stand behind this product. It is absolutely my favorite breakfast on the trail. I get big calories, I get the right calories and it sets up my day for Success. So, if you want to get your hands on any Alpine fuel, you can go over and join our live Ultra membership. And once you're in there, you'll be able to find all of their products on our website. Not only that you get a discounted prices with rebates back after purchase. So again, join the live Ultra membership. And for those of you don't know, we we not only sell backpacking food inside there or we sell things like water filters, and a handful of other items and we will be growing that throughout this year. So go join the live ultimate membership. You cannot lose money with this program 10 dollars a month goes into an instant 10 dollars in store credit, plus the 10% year wide. Discount upgraded shipping. You can join our closed Facebook group and have conversations in their limited edition gear, a whole plethora of things that you can get from joining to live ultralight membership. Also, just wanted to quickly point out the meals that are available. From top to bottom here, that the meals that they have. Let's see if I can read these. There's the caramel apple we've already talked about. They have a, I think it's a coconut mango, which is really good chocolate, and strawberry, lemon berry Granola cranberry, white chocolate. And there's an orange one that I'm struggling to see the name of here. Orange pecan. That's right. That one's really, really good. All of these. I have tried all of them. I have loved. My favorite is The caramel apple. I also really like the lemon berry and the strawberry chocolates. So go give those a shot. I think, you'll really, really enjoy them. Okay, with that. If you guys have any questions or comments, drop them on the YouTube channel. If you've got comments, and if you have questions, reach out to live ultralight podcast that gmail.com, that'll get forward straight into one of our email addresses, which we can answer later on the podcast. If you've not yet, rated this podcast, make sure you go on rate. This podcast, that helps this podcast grow helps us help more people get outside and get connected with the vital Outdoors. Speaking of that, I hope that's what you're doing right now as you listen to this. If you're not get out there and get connected with the vital Outdoors, we all need it and we'll see you guys in the next episode. Hopefully, out on the trail.
