[00:00:00] Tayson: Hey everybody, welcome back to the live ultralight podcast, powered by outdoor vitals. If you're new to this podcast, this podcast is all about getting you on trail, more comfortably, more confidently, and more consistently, really? And if that's something that you're interested in learning the why behind we do certain things on trail. The why behind products the why behind how to execute an amazing hike. Any of those types of Endeavors? You're in the right spot, make sure you hit that subscribe button because today we're going to be talking specifically about that and how you could likely add five miles to your hiking day with no extra energy effort or expenditure. It might sound a little bit too good to be true. Let me explain, you still do have to hike the miles, but the way in the template and the format in which you hike, those miles can significantly impact the amount of fatigue, you feel at the end of the day, can lower the amount of risk, you have of getting say, elevation, sickness or exertion, you know, overexerting, it can make sure that your feet stay healthier and, you know, less prone to blistering, or fatigue so many benefits. And it all at the same time that you're likely going to be hiking more and more miles. So, this is a great topic for this podcast. If you're interested in this, make sure you are subscribed. Share this with the friend with that. I'm going to go ahead and bring on our guests, which really isn't a guest. He's a regular on the show, Tyler who works here inside the office. He's going to come on and we're just going to discuss the perfect 20 mile day 20 miles on trail, how to execute it perfectly in the framework which we follow. I'll go ahead and roll that interview now. All right, Tyler, we're gonna be talking about The 20-mile day today, and how you doing today?
[Editor’s note: These are the speakers’ historical performance claims, not guaranteed outcomes or medical guidance. Mileage, fatigue, altitude response, blister risk, and exertion vary by person, conditions, terrain, preparation, and health.]
[00:01:39] Tyler: Doing quite well. I'm excited to be here.
[00:01:42] Tayson: Then you've been pretty busy pulling together the OV 100 challenge, which I'm actually looking at the book right now. So this is a little bit of a sneak peek because the booklet Training chart, but we're gonna be specifically talking about one aspect that you put into this. Training program on week, 12 called the perfect, 20 mile day. Now we get questions about this often. We get a lot of questions actually on trail, probably more than anywhere else when we, you know, our passing hikers and they've been asking us where you guys going today, how far are you trying to get to? And it doesn't take a very long to typically add up like well, you guys are doing it? Yeah, two. Oh it's a two pass day for you guys or something along those lines. In fact, it happened on the at quite a bit where we actually getting asked this question. A lot with mostly people were in. We ran into. Yeah, I mean, when we were out there, we were hiking around the bubble per se at hikers that we're doing. 13 to 15 miles a day. They were not afraid of taking zero days, you know. So we were, we were up with the group that was already hiking. 20, 25 miles a day, or more, we were really kind of back with this group. It's so it was very consistent question that came up and to us, it's Like I don't know, she's just how we do things now for the most part. I mean, it's
[00:03:04] Tyler: yeah, we zero days are with the family.
[00:03:06] Tayson: Yeah,
[00:03:07] Tyler: yeah.
[00:03:08] Tayson: I mean we're not doing, you know, three months and longer but yeah zero days are definitely at home and but I mean anytime that we have that, we're heading the trail. like a lot of times we're mapping it out so that we're doing You know, 20 miles or more a day, even in the High Country, which is a whole nother conversation of how much more difficult it is, to do it at elevation, but we're consistently getting 20 to 25 miles, I'd say. And, you know, we probably don't need to get into the politics. Like why we do that? Because we don't do that on every trip just trips where maybe we have a slightly bigger goal. A time constraint, which I think all of you guys can relate to, right. I mean, no one has infinite amounts of time. No one has infant infinite amounts of ability to go and do bucket list hikes. And so, Sometimes, we're trying to work things in. We're we're, I mean, on a time constraint or we're on some kind of a constraint that make that means that we typically want to do more miles. I think what we've learned last year though. You know, because me and you did get multiple 100 miles trips. Was that 20 miles is a great number of miles going from 20 to 25? Gets exponentially harder and from 25 to 30 miles in a day. it's exponentially here, but 20 miles a day can actually be Peaceful relaxed and very comfortable and safe. And like you, you can still have something
[00:04:39] Tyler: in the tank, in case, something happens where you have to go further. What do you mean by that? Um, like our if you haven't seen the video of us doing the Appalachian Trail, our 30 mile day was not a plan 30 mile day, right? We went. We went some extra miles that day due to not having the campsites totally planned and thinking that we had a bear in our camp. So while that's embarrassing we you know we had initially planned that day to be like 24 miles and we were still able to do 30 plus that day. So I think it's I think it's always important to not plan your day for your max mileage like basically ever because you, you knew a little bit of buffer in case you have to go further or in case you have to backtrack because you lose something or because a friend needs some help or A stranger for that matter.
[00:05:44] Tayson: Yeah, I I'm just curious when you think back to that night in particular I have like images. Like, do you like snapshot images in my mind that just pop up, what pops up for you. When you think back of that night,
[00:05:57] Tyler: I think of that, like a little Seance circle of trees that your tent was it? Yeah, that was the weirdest little perfect circle of trees like evenly spaced, 10 foot diameter, circle your tent fit like perfectly in there and that was creepy to start and then you see those big eyes staring at us and then Like I I took a pretty big log down the hill at it and it didn't even blink or move and that was when I started to think, it wasn't a deer. So
[00:06:30] Tayson: yeah and we weren't we weren't Delirious at this point. It wasn't like a 11:00 at night or something already but that's only one of the things that so I have like this flash, like a few flashbacks. In my mind, I can picture. The campsite that was it like 23 miles that were like, like Get Fit one parent. We could force this to work, but it's not convenient and but look at all that, like that Meadow down there, we could get, you know, so much opportunity, get down there, it's all private land, one not. But so I have that like flashback of that campsite, and that view because it was really pretty. Have the flashback of seeing the skunk, right? As it got dark and take it off already. Yeah. You remember that and then definitely the Seance circle of I don't know what that was, but it definitely. I, if I had, if we had not left that campsite due to the, to the creature outside of our camp, III think that probably would have been one of the more Like scary, like I would have had to have really. Thought logical and conscious about being like just trees, they're just trees. Because they were like, like, if you took, a tape measure, and did a perfect circle, like, that's what this circle of trees look like, and, It was, it was not natural. I guess it was the thought there. But anyways, so yeah, I think, I think there is definitely some aspects of not overextending yourself. If you're maxed day is 25 can open up opportunities for injury can open up opportunities, for if something was to go wrong at Mile 24 and you have nothing left in the tank, you know, those types of things, it's definitely wise to not overextend yourself. And and what I think we found through that though, is that there was a lot of days on trail that we were actually pushing probably too hard trying to go 25 or 24 miles in the day. Attitude. And when we would get to mile 20, that would typically be about dinner time, because we were pushing a little faster than what the plan is, which will go over here in a second. And it was like man if we stopped right now like that'd be so relaxing. So nice like my feet could stop hurting or whatever it was and so I think I think 20 miles is very doable for a lot of people. if you understand how we choose to do 20 miles, it's it's not an all-out Blitz, it's not Something that weighs on you more. It's very strategic, it breaks up the day very well, make sure you're getting calories and make sure you are, you know, time on feet is a really big one that I maybe maybe just a side tangent here. I, I learned a pretty valuable lesson. Last year when I was hiking with my brother. In fact, it was on this hike for those. You watching where I took this photo, I have no idea if you're able to see that but Out in the San Juan mountains. And I was hiking with my brother who was not as conditioned as me and we needed to do. 13 to 14 miles that day and at 13,000 feet at probably an average of 11,000 feet. Yeah. Like going through passes at 12 and then dropping down a little bit from there but Not much like probably nothing. Under 10,000 is really high area and I was hiking his speed for most of the day. And then I just kind of thought, you know, I need to let him hike his speed because I'm sitting here pushing him and I need to maybe hike my speed because I was trying to get to a destination and then meet him there. And early, I got there, the better and So eventually I split off finished the 13 Mile and I was just sitting up a camping and why was that so exhausting like that was only 13 miles. Like, sometimes I get up in the morning and Trail Run 10 miles and then go to work. You know what I mean? Like, that was just 13 miles, but when I thought about it was like, but it took us all day long, meaning I was on my feet with the pack on all day long. I was just hiking slower and that's a real thing. You can increase maybe the speed that you're hiking and take more frequent breaks. I'm an advocate of doing that because I think that it does reduce the amount of time on feet, it allows your feet to get rest, maybe to raise your feet, and reduce some swelling, and things like that. And so this system also optimizes that so
[00:10:58] Tyler: Yeah, totally. I feel sometimes worse after a day of standing for 12 hours at a trade show, then I do on one of these giant days on the high line or something, you know,
[00:11:12] Tayson: for sure those standing days are, I mean, yeah, they're they're brutal on your body which doesn't make any sense, but they really are. Okay. So why don't you go ahead and introduce the backstory here? So, I You're, I guess you're the most familiar with it, but I, I did I guess stumble across this concept. Through a book called lighten up. And started to implement that here in the office. And as we were looking to extend our our days, because to be honest, you go back to 2000. You know, 16 to 2018, probably in there. I mean we probably never had a company on trail where we did more than 15 miles and then, you know, maybe 2018 and on we started to bump up those numbers had some 17, 18 Mile days. and then it was like, All of a sudden we went from that to like 20 was the minimum and like for certain trips certain trips. You know we're doing 20 plus and and we're all doing it at 38. Yeah, we had a 38 mile day.
[00:12:16] Tyler: Yeah,
[00:12:17] Tayson: but we're all doing it actually in better condition than we were doing even this I mean I remember being getting to the end of a 17 Mile day and just thinking that was so long. It was so hard. I'm so exhausted. My feet hurt, you know, all these things. Whereas now I might feel that way at the end of a 24 Mile day and so we've we've really changed and that that's maybe conditioning, that's maybe you know, a variety of factors but you can definitely increase mileage and do it in a very comfortable way through her system. System that we're going to talk to right now. We call the perfect 20 mile day. Again, that was originally brought onto my radar by Mike Cleland who's written a couple books. And I think this one you've got in front of you, he co-authored with Don Don laidig actually, which one does the mic? Does the illustrations Don's the author, right?
[00:13:07] Tyler: Yeah, I do think there's some co-authoring in there though. So yeah, the little it's just this little book called lighten up super fast read and I think every Backpacker should read it because there's some awesome little tricks in there and they take the same approach to go in ultra light that we do. Which is We don't believe you have to be a masochist to be an ultralight Backpacker like for us. It's all about performance and performance is a balance of comfort and lightweight and functionality and we believe that you can get all of those things in a sub, 10 pound basically. So this lighting up book is great. And that is all those are all things that add up to allowing you to have the perfect 20 miles a day because you're not gonna do a perfect 20-mile day with the 40 pound pack. It's just Um, that is not a comfortable. Perfect day. It's a doable day but not
[00:14:07] Tayson: comfortable or perfect pounds are. There's no way around it, adding weight to your pack. Has a significant impact. I mean if I think we've talked about this but There's times of the year where I'm a sportsman. I'll go into the field. I might be packing out an animal. and, By, I mean, it is insane. The amount of mileage I can do with my 10 pound base weight versus my hunting gear, you know, maybe Camry gear spotting Scopes things like that. That might Put my base weight at 40. 40 pounds and then my food, right? It's insane. The amount of many more miles. I can do, and the condition that I feel when I get there, By swinging that 30 pounds up in a base weight.
[00:14:57] Tyler: Well, even just the difference in that setup because because if you're, if you're hunting like that, you're gonna be wearing a higher ankle boot for support for the extra weight, right? And just the difference in the weight in a lightweight mid boot versus a lightweight Trail, Runner makes a big difference in the day, well just ounces but it's a huge difference over the day and that's that's something that I've really been dialing
[00:15:20] Tayson: in on my on the hunting side that Sportsmen side is the lighter. I can get my pack, the less foot support I need. So I can get into a mid boot instead of a full boot or or basically a trail Runner with a slightly higher end on it. Yep. And my feet still do really well, but my fear way lighter and You know, we an ounce on your foot. I swear is worth the pound on your back. If not
[00:15:47] Tyler: And
[00:15:47] Tayson: so taking weight off of your feet keeping your feet light. Absolutely huge as well as well as your pack. But with this I was looking through this. I think this lightening up book is one of a few that he has. I think it's actually in a different book that he has. Same two authors essentially or author and illustrator that goes into the 20 mile basically. So I'm gonna have to pay.
[00:16:09] Tyler: You have it in here. I was just looking at
[00:16:11] Tayson: the quick start in there, but in They go in a lot of detail on.
[00:16:16] Tyler: So yeah, as far as talking about the book lighting up with Don lanegan and Mike Cleland. The reason they bring it up is when they talk about the quick start camp and stealth camping and and these are all things that that put us onto like running the perfect 20 mile day and we borrowed some ideas from this. But essentially, what they say with the stealth Camp is And and we agree with this, it's often better to count in places that aren't getting as much impact. So, you'll be hiking along the trail and if it's a dispersed camping area, you'll see the very warning campsites and those campsites can become problematic over time, they attract more and more Critters, but all. So it's just more and more and more impact on that area. So that's a lot of what the leave no Trace organization is about is helping you to stealth camp or camp in proper permitted areas. We're huge. Fans of dispersed camping, don't get us wrong like we we will take a dispersed camping route through the backcountry, where we won't see anyone any day over going to a national park, but we do it all. So the idea behind their stealth Camp is Um, you roll in late in the evening, you don't set up a giant Camp because you've already eaten dinner. And so you just find a small spot, you set up your tent. You're good to go. And then in the morning, you don't eat breakfast at the camp. Like, that's a lot of what they talked about with the stealth camp, and that fits perfectly into our perfect, 20 mile day. And, and what's good about, that is there's no food tracking Critters to the campsite ever, because you don't really have it out at that time, but then all. So it's real fast going in real fast coming out, because you're just not setting up a ton of stuff and trying to make a giant campsite. So, what that means is, we eat on the trail and in our perfect, 20 mile day, we will wake up when the sun comes up like right around that same time and then we will break camp. And if we have a Real big day. A lot of us will try to get some calories in our stomach before we leave, but not a full breakfast. And so then we time for like a bar type of bread. Yeah, yeah. And so we, we get out on the trail. And we go for it. Kind of just depends on where the water is that. We're gonna run into next and like, how everyone's feeling, but we could go for two miles or five miles in the morning before we have breakfast and it just depends
[00:19:11] Tayson: on on what we're wanting to do. Certain people's miles are going to be a little bit different so let's talk about it. Maybe in more term of like time. Yeah so hypothetically in this we love if we can break Camp by 7 a.m. which breaking Camp is pretty simple. Meaning when we talk about breaking campus is pretty much is roll up your pad stuff, your sleeping Bag or top quilt and then typically it's not even like really put your tent away, all that clean or whatever, because it might slap moisture in it. So typically stuff your your shelter into an outside pocket or something like that and just try to hit the trail, right? So you're, you're trying to get up and get out of Camp quickly. Um, so you're not spending a lot of time mulling around and, and, and kind of burning that time. So let's say we were to wake up at 6 6:40. We're on trail by seven. And that's typically when the sun's up, we're all pretty early risers as well, which that? I mean, to me waking up at 6:40 sleeping in for a good chunk. But then we're on trail and we'll typically hiked for an hour till about 8:00. Typically it can definitely swing significantly, then we'll stop for breakfast. Depending on the group, right? Because you know the group does have a say in all this it can be a 15 minute stopped or it could be a 30 minutes stop. From there, we're getting back on trail. We'll say this is 8:30 now and we're going to hike for about two hours, one and a half to two hours and in an hour and a half to two hours, you typically are going to cover four to six miles. If you're hiking it two miles an hour, that's four miles. If you're hiking at three miles an hour, that's six miles. So you're gonna land somewhere in between there. So let's call it five. So you now before you ever get, you know, by the time you're stopping at a 10:30 break, you've already got seven and a half miles done on the day. Then you can stop take another break, 15 to 30 minutes and typically, your stops are going to be about every two hours. We rarely will go for longer than two hours at a time. Which is a big was a big, big change. You know, typically, most people will get up, have a longer campsite time, get their breakfast in and then they're gonna like, hike to lunch right? Just straight through lunch. Maybe stop the filter water if needed, but then they're just going to to do like a four plus hour of hiking Street shot. And by breaking it up to, okay? We hiked an hour break hour and a half. Break it. It drastically. Reduces. Fatigue body. So take that break around 10:10. 30, sit down, sit down, get your feet up. Take your path. That's where like that 8 inch closed. Cell phone pad comes into handy because you can lay down Spread it out, get comfortable,
[00:21:58] Tyler: fix anything that's going on in your shoes or socks. So you're not gonna have any chance of hot spots or anything like that. That's what those breaks are for is taking the time to prevent those kind of issues.
[Editor’s note: These are the speakers’ historical blister-prevention claims, not a guarantee or medical conclusion. Hot spots and blisters can have multiple causes, and this scheduling approach does not eliminate individual risk.]
[00:22:10] Tayson: Yeah, if you're feeling your foot's, filling hot or feeling anything like take your shoes off and even if you don't tape your shoe or your feet up by just taking your like a special, all you guys out there that love gortex shoes. Which I'm not a fan of, let's say absolutely have to have them, your feet, get hot. Well, that's the number one thing that's gonna cause a blisters is heat. So take your feet out of your your shoe for a minute and let it cool off. Let your socks dry a little bit in the in the breeze and then you know that that'll that's just blister prevention. It helps your feet, you know, have time to recover a little bit and and then and then it gives you opportunity to get more calories in your body. So typically, anytime we're stopping like that we're gonna take a snack of some kind. You know, we're not cooking a meal. We're just taking a snack. You know, 15, 15 20, 25 minutes. And then we're back on the trail. Hike for another about two hours. So you're getting another five miles in and then you stopping for lunch. Now, now we're sitting at, What 12 and a half miles on the day. Usually, by the time you get to, let's say 12:30 in the afternoon. Which gives you some options because now you can take substantial breaks, you're you're ways into the day. So to lunchtime, I would say, we typically we always say we're not going to but we typically take an hour and we'll, we'll sit there we'll say.
[00:23:33] Tyler: Yeah.
[00:23:35] Tayson: Yeah. And we're like, you know, and then yeah. And again, the bigger the group size you're in the slower, you will. The longer your brakes will be maybe not the slower. You'll hike, even though that's probably true, but for sure your brakes will be, you'll have more breaks and longer breaks, basically, every person's gonna add 10 minutes to your break times. Seriously. You're like, oh, someone this happens every time you get to a spot and someone's like, I got a filter water, it's like, okay. So you wait for this person to filter water, you're just about to leave the water and things like. Yeah, I better grab some water too and then they're grabbing water and then and that happens like it every single water stops. So that's an extra like 10 minutes of every water stop. Yeah. That's no matter how much we talk about it. I swear because they stand like I'm good on water and then you sit there and you talk and you talk about how much More miles, it is. And you start talking about how much water do you have, and you just talk yourself into picking up some more water? So, yeah, it's always longer with, with bigger group, but so we're taking an hour, long break. Now it's let's say 130 in the afternoon. Do another two hours now, you're too 3330. You can take another break. But now, again, now you're at 17 and a half, I mean, you can see how quickly this adds up, right? And let's say, you didn't do a full two hours and you didn't get a full five miles and I'll see you got four on a few of those you should be sitting at about should be sitting over 15. Usually at a time you're taking that afternoon break and then from there, A lot of times for us it's like okay. Hike for another hour hour and a half and just kind of pick a spot on the map where we want to have dinner. So then we we do that. Have dinner on trail. Which this part is is probably one of the bigger changes for most people listening is that we have dinner on trail. We'll stop usually buy a water source, we'll filter we'll eat and then we'll pack up our stuff and head out again and typically after dinner, ideally we only hiked for about another hour. And then we set up camp but it's it's different for sure. Everyone just thinks about getting to camp and, and making these big meals and things. But we've really come to enjoy this because nine times out of 10 when we want to get all the miles in and then stop for Camp. What it means is that we don't eat at 5, we don't need it six, we get to camp at 7, but then you've got to still set up your camp. And you want to do that in the daylight. So then you're not eating till 8:00 and by the time you're really eating, it's like man, I needed calories at 5:00 not 8:00 and now you're like getting behind on calories and you're eating right before bed. You're doing it.
[00:26:14] Tyler: To
[00:26:14] Tayson: exerted to eat, because you've gone too far, so special. That happens a lot to us where we're, we're talking or in elevation a lot, right? Like you can get overexerted and then you lose your appetite elevation. And so for us, you need to keep your calories coming in at a consistent frequent basis. It keeps you feeling really good. It keeps you feeling fresh, it keeps you off of those calorie walls that are so easy to run into and backpacking specially when you're doing bigger miles. And so it really protects you. And and so again, when we've done it, the other way, it really is like nine times out of 10, you're not eating eating till 7 or later will at home. I mean I eat at 5530 every day I don't need it, six, six, thirty seven so that that messes me up but also when you eat a camp, you eat, You finish eating, then you may be some snacks and then you go straight into your bed. And it's not, it's not a great digestion idea to just eat and then go straight to bed. And so I find all. So that what I really enjoy is, if we stopping at 5:00 to eat dinner, we get back on our feet, maybe at that point in the day, like we're tired, we just have food in our gut, so we're not like crushing miles at that point. But you can, you can Meander down a trail at 2, mi an hour, and still be very comfortable, not overstrain. And then the best part of all of it is your hiking during that beautiful time of day, right? You're you're bumping and animals all over the place because they're coming out to feed. It's what we call that gold an hour.
[00:27:43] Tyler: Oh yeah.
[00:27:45] Tayson: It which comes from like photography and videography because everything's so beautiful. Everything's lit up. Everything looks amazing and that's when you're actually still covering miles. And and just getting to view that or, or even in the morning, you know, the golden hour there in the morning, it's it's the same thing, right? You're you're covering miles without sun's coming up, you're watching the sunrise, you're seeing it. Come across this mountain or whatever it is. You're still bumping into animals. You know, we bumped into a moose, you know, on The High Line when we were up and moving and
[00:28:13] Tyler: right at the start of golden hour.
[00:28:14] Tayson: Yeah,
[00:28:15] Tyler: you're not right. If you're if you're not out there at that time. So
[00:28:20] Tayson: then once that's all set and done you hike for an another hour. After dinner you stop, you set up a light camp like Tyler mentioned about the impact and all that there's definitely benefit in that but Then you can have another snack and climb into bed. You're not eating a ton of food and climbing into bed, you're not, you know. Do all of that. And so this system has been, I think those of you that are listening if you follow this system, you will be absolutely amazed at how many more miles you'll hike in a day that you Did. So if you currently your hiking at 15 miles a day and you're like oh man, Seems to be like when I'm too tired to go on, I just don't want to go on, do it this way and I bet you'll get five more miles out of your day with without even a perceived increase in effort.
[00:29:07] Tyler: For fatigue at the end or fatigue? Yeah.
[00:29:10] Tayson: If you're hiking 10 miles a day, I bet you get up to 15 this method, without any increase in fatigue or effort. It's When we actually, I think the very first time that I got really serious about making the whole group do this. Was it wasn't highlighting the first time was it? no,
[Editor’s note: The five-mile increase described above is an anecdotal claim, not a guaranteed or universally supported result. Individual effort and fatigue can increase even when using the discussed schedule.]
[00:29:29] Tyler: I think the first time we really did it was when we fastpack that touches That's right. Yeah,
[00:29:35] Tayson: it was. When we were starting to do some of these big efforts and I I just told everyone, I said, look This is how I've kind of done it on my own. We've never done it as a group this way because the group dynamic its it's just more bodies harder to figure out. Everyone has their own systems. And so I said this is I just kind of took charge, I guess. So. This is how we're going to do this trip to make this happen. This is how we're running the days and we did it. And we've never changed ever since then, because it's just works. So seamlessly and anyone and everyone in the group is fine with it. We get a little bit of push back, I'd say from Brigham because he's not one to like shove his tent into his into his backpack. So he
[00:30:12] Tyler: wants to like wipe it down in the
[00:30:16] Tayson: morning microfiber towel and cleanses is entire shelter inside and now
[00:30:19] Tyler: he wants it to dry and breathe and
[00:30:22] Tayson: So, so he's not quite as like, quick, but, you know, if he knows we're leaving at 7, he's just gonna wake up a little bit earlier and try to be ready. But again, that comes back to that group dynamic, but no one's ever really pushed back on this because it is so efficient. And I think, once you've done it one time, it changes. Just your whole perspective on it. Yeah I
[00:30:42] Tyler: think there's two two parts of it that make your day a lot better and it's it's by Design when you follow the perfect 20 mile day. The first part is you're just not wasting any time in Camp where you're probably like if if you're on a backpacking trip and you're trying to cover some ground, your campsites are not going to be the prettiest places that you're going to come up on, you know, like a lot of times if you're in a national park, you're not allowed to Camp right at the look off or right at the best place is and so your campsite is like An average spot to hang out. So, by by doing the quick start getting up, getting moving getting out of Camp. You're just not wasting your day at the app. One of the less cool places that you could be at in the day, so I think that's a Time Saver. And a huge benefit to doing the 20-mile day. I always talks the author talks about
[00:31:40] Tayson: like because like what Tyler's getting out here is, you have more time to spend during the middle of the day where you want to spend it, Mike or Dawn the author of this. He talks about I think that's why I'm getting it off. I'm pretty sure that Mike. He wrote other books?
[00:31:58] Tyler: Yeah,
[00:31:58] Tayson: I think so. So that's why I'm gonna anyways. He talks about how he'll take an hour-long siesta in the middle of the day. Like he has enough time on one of his breaks to just literally lay down on the dirt and sleep for an hour. Right. If he chooses to I think that's the benefit of this is you could sit at advantage point for an hour. You could sit by a lake and fish for an hour, still get the miles and still get 20 mi in by just breaking up the day this way and and getting comfortable. With let's say, I think the biggest thing you have to get comfortable with is is hitting the trial before breakfast and Hiking after dinner.
[00:32:35] Tyler: Yeah. And and to me, the hiking after dinner is the biggest benefit of the whole thing. Although I do really enjoy that, we have our meals at very Scenic places. Now, like basically everywhere we go, we're perched on the edge of a cliff, looking over a huge Basin or down into a canyon or something, because you have that opportunity to set your meal time at a really cool place. And if you're planning ahead, you can usually find an awesome place to do it. But for me the biggest benefit Of the of the whole thing is being able to have dinner at 5 or 5:30 or even six and just get a good solid rest and then get some calories in. So that those last few miles in the day, you're not dragging and you're not creating a calorie deficit that then you're going to carry into the next day. Because if you're doing a four or five day trip if you don't eat until you get to camp at seven or eight, you're gonna have a calorie deficit for that day and then you're gonna sleep and you're gonna carry that lack of energy from that first date into the next day, and into the next day and you're going to drag more and more from day to day and feel like you can do less and less and and that will affect your entire trip. So, for me, getting those calories, in, in the evening, finishing the day off strong, really sets you up for the next day, and helps you to have the energy
[00:34:09] Tayson: that you Need when you need it. yeah, when you're, when you're building a deficit, On a trip or whatever. It's, it's almost impossible to dig your way out of those Holes, without a lot of experience or having adequate amount of time, because typically, what you have to do is lower your exertion
[00:34:28] Tyler: level
[00:34:29] Tayson: So if you build yourself a deficit in hydration, you may have to slow down or stop, you know, for half a day or something to really reset yourself, same with Cal, right? Because it all compounds when you're at altitude for instance, And you start to overexert and you start to lose your appetite. And then suddenly you don't want to eat, you went too long between eating and you overexerted and you hit a cal wall and suddenly your body doesn't want to eat. And so then getting out of that Cal wall is, is pretty much impossible unless you slow down, unless you you let your body rest or reset or you get down from elevation or something like that. And so it's it's 100 times better to be ahead of this than to build any kind of a deficit and it keeps you feeling way better on trail.
[00:35:17] Tyler: Yeah. Well, and, and two, I think it's worth mentioning that like altitude sickness happens, whenever you have any sort of weakness that you've allowed to creep in, right? Like we've talked about this over and over amongst ourselves about when we've seen people get it or when we've gotten it ourselves and it's it's always been when you have a little Nick in your armor. Um, so to speak that the altitude sickness will come in and finish off whatever ailment is started. So if you're a little bit dehydrated, you're way more susceptible to get altitude sickness. If you're, if you have a little bit of a calorie deficit, you're more susceptible to get altitude sickness, if you're, you know,
[00:36:03] Tayson: getting proper rest.
[00:36:05] Tyler: Yeah, exactly. Not resting
[00:36:06] Tayson: sleep. I mean not just rest sleep,
[00:36:09] Tyler: exactly. Those are all things that will make you more susceptible. And so you have to be paying attention to that because you know, there's a, there's a lot of people and a lot of stories where People are up high in the mountains and start to have issues and have to come down. And they when they come down they're like oh well it wasn't out to dude sickness. It was it was you know I ate something bad or I didn't I wasn't conditioned or I had some other issue, come on and Essentially, like, with all the time we've spent up there and the different things that we've experienced, which we both have had our share of of altitude, sickness and experiences of being sick on the mountain. We have come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter how it starts, it's going to end as altitude
[00:37:07] Tayson: sickness. Yeah. So That's a great. That's a great. Like, like I think of altitude sickness. Is this big black net. That you either get caught in to begin with OR you get caught in as you're falling, you know what I mean? Like. But either way, it ends in that
[00:37:21] Tyler: mmm
[00:37:22] Tayson: and keep in mind, too. For all of you out there, like, oh, we don't have 12,000 foot Peaks to climb altitude sickness, can start at 7500 feet. 8,000, feet is when you actually start to become at risk of altitude and many people out there and maybe maybe even less than that, depending on how sensitive you are. You know, you could You. Yeah, I've heard of situations and all save them for future podcasts maybe to ask the people themselves. About this. But I mean, people at 8000 feet that are that likely are starting to fill real effects of altitude sickness that they can be really serious. But I, you know, I don't need, there's, there's six thousand foot Peaks. Well, you just still feel something at 6,000 feet. If you're used to 0 feet, But it just all adds up because even if it's not altitude sickness, it's overexertion, if it's not overexertion, it's it's dehydration and all. They all play a part. And so systematizing your day, when you're going out on say, a bucket list, hike, you're trying to get through the miles that you're hoping to do in a timely manner, this has been and proven to be The best possible way to break up a day. That's comfortable reliable, consistent, and that you will learn to love because you'll learn to love hiking at 7 a.m. or at 7 p.m. you'll learn that. That is the best time to be out walking around on trail versus City in Camp. And if you're camps socked in by trees, and you really can't see any views or any advantage points. So, Okay, Tyler. I know we need to get you out of here. So I'm gonna let you hop off the podcast and all all wrap things up. So, pretty sure if you have not yet heard of the OVU, 100 Mile Challenge, make sure to check that out. Tyler's been the main proponent pushing that together, and organizing that. So appreciate that. And I
[00:39:16] Tyler: will see you guys over inside of that group. Yeah, I will say The it does take some conditioning to do the perfect. 20 mile day consistently day after day. And that's the whole goal of the OV 100 is to just help people to become more capable confident and comfortable in the backcountry. So awesome. Thank you.
[00:39:38] Tayson: All right, just wanted to thank Tyler again for coming on the show today and walking us through this. And I want to take a quick second to go back through this. We might have gone through this a little bit quickly. So I want to walk through one more time for you how we break down the day and the associated miles with that. So you can really get a great picture of what this looks like in practice. So if we were to start hiking at 7 a.m. So if we were to hike from 7 a.m. to 8 a.m. and get about two and a half miles in, then you take a 30-minute break for breakfast from 8:30, to 10:15 10:30. So 10 15, you get another four miles in right there. Then another 30 minute break you go from 10:45 to 12:30, get another four miles in and then you stop for a whole hour for lunch, right? And now you're sitting at 10 and a half miles, by the time you get to lunch 12:30, So you've got the whole day in front of you. Still in many ways, So you get to hiking again at 12:30 12:30 or excuse me. 1:30 1:30 to 3:15 get another four miles in take another 30 minute. Break. Start hiking in at 3:45, hike to 515, get another four miles in. And then you have another hour-long break for dinner now. So, now you're sitting at 18 and a half miles. By 5:15 in the evening. You eat your dinner for an hour? Get back on Trellis 6:15 and you can hike basically tell you hit 20 or typically will hike for let's just say 45 minutes to an hour. You're going to get another couple miles in and now you're over 20 years sitting in about 20 to 20 to 21 Mi on the day through that exact breakup. The nice thing is, you know, many of these averages were using About getting about about two miles an hour, maybe just a hair over two miles an hour, which is a pretty acceptable Pace as long as you're being maybe efficient with water stops, maybe when you're stopping at these different breaks throughout the day, you're stopping in water whenever possible. It's just a really easy practice and you can knowing this, you can start to plan your day to hit some of these water stops and say, okay, when we get to this water, we'll take a break because you sometimes, it can just be pushing around a Break by 15 minutes or so. So it makes a lot of sense. It's pretty, dang simple, just realize that you you're pretty much are never hiking. You should never really be hiking more than about two hours in a single go. Without taking a break, you know, and most breaks are going to be 30 minutes. You can have 60 Minute ones for for lunch and dinner or a lookout or however you want to do this. So, really is a simplistic way of breaking up a day, is sounds. Not that intuitive. And this isn't like this is the only way to hike, right? That's not what we're saying at all. We're just saying that this could likely from where you're at right now. If you have not done this, this could likely increase your mileage on trail significantly without adding much impact on your body, more fatigued. So on and so forth. Now this is just one week. One week's worth of training inside the OV 100 challenge so you can see right here, that's a The way that we do things too, is if you're inside that group. will have you read this this chapter week and along with maybe the next one which looks like The one previous to this would be the OB proven packing list. And then we hop on a live, call a live coaching call where we field questions. We talk through these principles and practices and we help people make sense of them. In real time on a live coaching call, we allow you to ask questions. It's a really, really interesting thing and this is all a part of the OV 100 mile training framework. So this is really is the mean potatoes of what you get with. This program is a training program. A training framework that helps to think of it as a DIY coaching system or you're coming on a hike with us and we're just assisting you. And making sure you don't overlook anything. Making sure you execute it right. Making sure you get the most out of that experience. It's a phenomenal tool. It's one of my favorite things that we do here it really. Is we make, we make way more money if you were to buy a product from us. By the time we we paid a print all this, we paid a ship it all to you. We paid to ship you, the finishers items. We make no money on this. The only, I mean, to be honest, the only way we even make money on this is, if you don't complete the challenge which is not our goal. We want every single sign up to complete the challenge. So, not our goal. And so, again, that's what I come back this, we're just passionate about this. We think this will change lives. Our purpose here at Outdoor Vitals is to connect you with the vital Outdoors anyway that we can and a lot of that isn't just the gear, a lot of that is the education. Framework. It's eliminating unknowns, right? So what you get with this if you're someone, who's like, man, I've I've done an overnighter here. I've been an overnight or there, but I'm I'm a little nervous to do a section, a section hike or I'm a little nervous to go out for four days. I'm a little bit nervous to cross the country and Hike the John Muir, or something like that. That's, it's, it's uncomfortable to you. Well, that's what this is right here. It's, it's a massive checklist. It's a training framework. It's, it's all of the above because just imagine that you've been promoting in for John, Muir hiking permits forever and you finally get them. And you go show up and you're not prepared, you don't have the right gear, you didn't do enough training, you didn't know what kind of training to even do, maybe thought you were trained. But what you find out is that you were hiking treadmill miles and that doesn't equate to what the John Muir Trail miles would be like. His 100% true, but if you're taking treadmills and you're going to go do the John Mayer, it will break you and it will not be pretty. And So you, you're this. Is that extra Assurance. It's that extra camaraderie, right? We have hundreds and hundreds of you guys that have signed up for this. It's gonna be a ton, a ton of fun, and there's much more in here. I think you guys will find valuable, make sure that if you are part of this group jump on the live coaching calls their absolutely Fun exciting, beneficial educational. And we can answer your specific questions on those. So, Anyways, that's the 20 mile day. I hope you guys enjoyed that. I hope you guys enjoyed the details. We went into, I really really think that if you've not yet tried this you Absolutely should. But if you have any questions on the 20 mile day, if you have any questions on 100 mile framework or any other questions for the podcast, you can reach us in two ways. You can email us at the level to like podcast@gmail.com, which will forward into one of our email addresses or you can reach us at By leaving a comment on the YouTube channel where we also publish this podcast. We really just want to say big, thank you to you guys. This podcast has been growing. We've been increasing in viewership and listens and everything, but I would love to see if you guys put a few more reviews out there. So if you've yet to review the podcast, please go and do so it really helps this podcast. Girl helps us help more people. Get out there and get connected to the vital Outdoors. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure you're subscribe to you guys on a future episode.
