[00:00:00] Tayson: Hey everybody, welcome back to the live ultralight podcast, powered by outdoor vitals. If you're new to this podcast, this podcast is all about getting you on trail, more comfortably, more confidently, and more consistently. I kind of started adding in that consistent one because that really is the goal here is to connect you with the vital Outdoors, to get you out there more consistently. And we talk about that in today's episode where I interview Frozen from Outdoor Adventures, YouTube Channel. Frozen has been doing YouTube for many years, at least in about 2014, he has a great following and a great Channel. Talk through his channel, we talked to, some of his experience as hiking the Appalachian Trail, what he took away from that. We talked through some food options that are that I found really, really interesting. What through hikers are eating out there and a really, really key takeaway that he learned after completing his entire at through hike, which is a, which is a really fun part of this conversation as well as just other stories and gear swap information. So, if you're interested in that, make sure you stay tuned to this interview with frozen. I think you're going to love it. And once again, thank you for coming on the podcast for Frozen. We'll go ahead and roll this interview now. All right, Frozen, I'm super excited to have you on the podcast today, Emma. I'm a big fan of a lot of the work you've done out there and Look forward to talking with you. Amen. I wanted to start off the conversation, just talking a little bit about your at hike, you know, you're right. Really well known for your YouTube channel and I mean that's your main Hub. If I'm not mistaken for for the content that you create. But I wanted to ask just when you knew that you needed to go hike the Appalachian Trail.
[00:01:39] Jason: I think I knew so. I went in 2019, but I think I knew in 2017 that I kind of had the through hiking itch on my uncle. I don't a lot of people may not know this, but my uncle who's like really outdoorsy. He had a bad fall out of a tree stand. Paralyzed. And I would always wanted to hike the at like, you know, I'll do when I retired just like everybody else. But then like, Started the brain, you know, going like, what if I can't, you know, when I retire. So he kind of he kind of stuck and kind of sped me up. So about 2017.
[00:02:11] Tayson: Yeah there's a lot of Truth to that. I think for some reason in my life I I I'm like the I don't know, I played the long game I guess, right? Like I'm always working for tomorrow or that's like my dad and see and I've got a buddy who's just always kind of pushing my buttons a little bit more the opposite. And and it's been like the best thing for me to be like and you don't know what tomorrow is gonna bring in so many ways. Like I still am a person's gonna say like plan for tomorrow, you know, like, don't don't be crazy or anything like that, but it is like life can change so fast that You only have you know what what you've done in the past, you don't know what's going to be
[00:02:52] Jason: exactly.
[00:02:54] Tayson: so, Decided, you know, you've gotta you've got this. Itch is that, is that something like you? You said in 2017, you figured that out. Does that mean that you You know, how to have a history with backpacking? Was that? Were you new to backpacking or what's kind of your background there?
[00:03:09] Jason: Yeah, I've been, I've been backpacking. I think I can figure it out as it was almost 10 years. Now, I came in late, I was one of those people and I early 20s, you know, just kind of played the video game things. All throughout my 20s. I didn't really go outside and, you know, we just did the bar thing. Basically, you know, and I had been backpacking for several years, the YouTube channel was going you know slowly and I mean my buddy, my buddy, Gary Shorts. If you know on the 1800 in 2018 he like the superior hiking. Trail long section of it. Pretty much almost a Duluth about 220. Sphere hiking trail. We were like It's pretty cool man. Like, I didn't want to go home. Like, I just wanted, I just wanted to keep going do the rest of the three, ten, or whatever it was, but that kind of like that, that kept getting the gears moving. And there's a lot of mental health issues in between 2017 and 2019, it just everything just kind of pointed it. Let's quit the job. Let's see what happens. Kind of thing.
[00:04:10] Tayson: Yeah. Was was that like your first backpacking trip or just like your first big backpack insurance?
[00:04:14] Jason: That was the first like Big first one over 100 miles.
[00:04:20] Tayson: Gotcha. Yeah, there's there's something interesting I think to, to doing a bigger effort versus like I grew up. I grew up just constantly camping, and, and spending nights out, but my early 20s, I started to get really interested in getting farther getting away from roads getting into Wilderness and seeing that side of things, and It gets it gets real addicting. As soon as you start like, pushing personal limousine absolutely days on trail. It's
[00:04:51] Jason: yeah,
[00:04:51] Tayson: it's just a totally different animal because it gives you enough time. I feel like to disconnect and process that. So for sure. So you have an amazing documentary on your at experience. Yeah, it has over a million views. It's it's it's it's a really Raw and real, you know, aspect of it. And I just love like the narration side of it when you think back on on that experience for you, you know, what's, what's like your biggest takeaways? What, what changed for you after you completed that hike or changed for you on that hike?
[00:05:35] Jason: One major thing it was so many just a bunch a little things that I had to kind of sort out in my head. when I got to, Mid Maine. Like, 200 300 miles away from. Totten, right? I think just kind of started clicking and me. I kind of realized I was being so envious of all. These people around me, you know, social media is always thrown in our face, like, hey, this is where you need to be. This is what you need to be doing at this stage in your life. I was unmarried, I didn't have any kids, I lived in a loan and, you know, small house and, I was just like, and that's okay, that's cool. That I'm where I need to be look what I'm doing and I came home, got married had a kid moved to a different bigger house, like everything changed real quick and it just, you know, be happy for where you are in life and stop. Looking at other people's lives because They're behind that Facebook screen. You know what I mean? You don't know what's actually going on in their lives.
[00:06:30] Tayson: Have you been able to hang on to that?
[00:06:31] Jason: Yeah. Absolutely. I'm thankful every day for what I got here.
[00:06:36] Tayson: How what do you think you you do that? That helps you like hang on to that because I've I've done social media fast. So I've you know kind of just like I don't actually have either Facebook or Instagram for instance on my phone but like all open them in a web browser on my phone just to make it a little bit more hard. And because I don't want to spend my time there And I when I've done like complete like, nothing at all right. Like no, no Facebook, no Instagram. I see like an immediate jump in and happiness and like Focus, the ability to focus on things like all these really, really good benefits. But then after like a month of it all sudden, I'm like, man, I'm on YouTube way more than anything. Right
[00:07:23] Jason: at least. YouTube's kind of cool though. There's people that you know, share your experience is with you. Holes to. But, you know, they're always gonna be trolls in life. I actually got rid of every single, one of my friends and family on Facebook and I use it differently, I use it as more of Twitter, if you will. So I follow things that interest me, like, hiking. The at groups, I'm following, you know, hockey is a big thing that I'm following it. I don't have any friends. I don't know what's going on with my friends. If I want to know what's going on my friends, I'll go out with them. I'll call them up, you know.
[00:07:54] Tayson: Yeah,
[00:07:55] Jason: I don't post pictures or anything. I just use it for my interests. It's an interest book at this point.
[00:08:02] Tayson: That's a really intriguing way of using it. I haven't really thought about using it that way. Do you find that it causes you to actually pick up the phone or call friends or frequently because of that because you're not like, yeah. Armchair quarterback. Like you're just not like kind of watching from afar.
[00:08:18] Jason: Yeah because you know you can comment on a picture like hey I'm so happy for you. You hate oatmeal in the morning or you ate a burger for you know me like but but this way you're like You have no idea. So hey man, what did you do today? And that'll strike up an actual conversation, it'll lead to you know going out for drinks or whatever, you know for dinner or whatever.
[00:08:37] Tayson: So yeah.
[00:08:38] Jason: experience is instead of just yeah like he said, the armchair quarterback thing
[00:08:43] Tayson: well, and then the side benefit of that too, is you're not Because I think it's not the worst thing, but it is one of the worst things of of social media, right? Like you've got the, the aspect on mental health and like the scroll, the dopamine hit every two seconds, but you've also got this, whether you believe it or not, I found with me. I That you're constantly comparing. Like you're constantly comparing yourself to everyone else's highlights of their life, not the lowlights not. I mean like if you see someone, let's say like that, that happened to go through a divorce like that doesn't show up on social media, suddenly, you're like wait they're not in a relationship, no happened. There's no, there's no back single know like right? Yeah, yeah. Or anything like that, right? Like this is one example and I don't know if that happened to me. If I was in that situation, I might do the same thing, but the case in point is that it's it's all the highlights. Hey look at this new truck I bought. Hey look at this new, look at this trip, we went on, hey, we're in Mexico. Imagine that you know and then and then half the time they post like people are gonna post again and again in about the same thing and it feels like to use that they're always down on Mexico on the beach and it's like one trip one time, you know, and you're like inherently doing this processing this. Paris, and right. And I think it's so the way that you're using your social media. I think it's really wise, really, really wise and, I mean did you just come up with this on your own something you've done since the eighteen or when did that? I
[00:10:15] Jason: was just like I'm still looking at a Facebook. I'm gonna wait here. There's like you just you know crickets you know, triple all around me. I'm like I should follow like my hockey team. You know what I mean? And I started adding stuff and you know, other, you know, other stuff that I'm interested in and that's It's worked really well. I wish more people would get into that.
[00:10:34] Tayson: Yeah,
[00:10:34] Jason: it's kind of like my Reddit but on Facebook, right?
[00:10:38] Tayson: Yeah, where are you based out of then?
[00:10:41] Jason: I'm in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania.
[00:10:43] Tayson: Okay. So yeah, you're up there far north. You keep talking about hockey and I just had me had me wondering. So where do you typically get out now? I mean, you haven't done another through hikes, since the at heavy,
[00:10:55] Jason: right? I have not, in fact, it took me after I got back from the 18.5 to get my knee straight. So I could get like, I kept wanting to him like, yes, they ain't happening, man. I just it hurt to lock up and down the steps. I think it would lack of stretching on the at really screwed me up, but I am planning a 2024 PCT hike. Hopefully, March depending on permits. So that's what pushes for now.
[00:11:22] Tayson: Going back to my knee injury cause I think that's the factor for a lot of people, right? And working through injury or figuring out. unless things and so for you, besides a lot of time off, is there been things that you've been able to pinpoint or do differently, whether it's stretching or, or training or, you know, muscular um, you know, building certain musculos that That are the problem or the triggers, right?
[00:11:48] Jason: Yeah I do a lot of IT band stretches. I even have some videos out. On my routine on the channel. It's funny as it sounds as in-home Beachbody workouts, that people scorn at, they've actually work really well for me. So I've been on like a P90X for the past six months, so just stay in just staying on top of any minor little thing that I feel on my over. My weekend trips to stay in on that. I had to go back from a 36 mile trip. Overnight at one of my local state parks. And you know, there's a couple things that I'm taking care of right now. So
[00:12:23] Tayson: Yeah,
[00:12:23] Jason: stay in. Stay on the little things before they turn into big things.
[00:12:27] Tayson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I want to, I do want to Circle back to just mileage or someone who's seems to really be able to to hammer out the miles but I ran an ultra marathon last summer is a first first one for me and I I wasn't right after that same thing, you know and I was having a lot of knee pain but it was all so it was just knee pain. It was so that muscle that kind of runs the next to your shin, on the front of your leg down, there called your tip I believe. And just like I at first, I thought I had fractured Shins like, I thought that they would I almost because I I got off of that. And then I the next week I went and we were starting our 100-mile, you went to Highline trail and I almost got x-rays before because I was like, You know, I talked to doctrines like, well, we would just tell you to not go but you're not gonna make it worse if you go. So I'm like, all right. I'll get the pictures after if I still feel like I need them. But yeah, so I went and and then I just kind of kept expecting things to heal on their own and they never did like they never did never really got better and so I started to you know, get more proactive about rehabilitating them and and ended up starting to do some some stuff from the guys. He's very famous these knees over toes guy but he does these things called tippies. And that has been like life-changing to my knees. And so What I think I think anyone who's listening to has had injuries. You know? I urge you to not like I don't know, to be proactive with them like, like, I'm really interested to go watch your your video. Now, with the band work I do, I love band Burke and and you know, stretching and those that side of things. But anyways, that's my two cents on. That is yeah, injuries injuries happen, but I hate when I kind of hear people like start, even start to train to do something and they get injured and then they just check out. Yeah, real crazy. You're like, no, I'm gonna fix this and then I'm gonna go back out.
[00:14:33] Jason: Yeah, and go hard on the house again.
[00:14:37] Tayson: so, you said, you did an overnighter, it was 36 miles, but when I was looking at your Your channel. Yeah. Just like you get out and do a lot of training as well.
[00:14:48] Jason: Yeah, this year, especially I wanted to be. I want to be in like super top fit shave a fight you know, get the permit for the PCT. I'm gonna do something. I'm a little afraid of the CTV but that might also happen in place. If I can't, I Could. But anyway, I usually try to get out like mid-march to do like a 20 mile Loop every other weekend at my other local state park called Raccoon Creek. It's like it's not the greatest scenery, it's not really great Trail but it's it's perfect for the ups and downs and kind of seeing some you know, Rocky conditions and stuff. Let's try to do 20 miles in one day. Like wake up at 7:00, get done at three kind of thing. And just keep at that until all the everything is You know, not painful. There's no no soreness in the morning, then I go to oil Creek which is where I came back from last weekend and just try to do that 36 and in and overnight and that's kind of like when I know that, okay? I'm ready for like a full three-day or a four-day trip, whatever I plan on doing.
[00:15:49] Tayson: when you're, when you're on the What did your mileage kind of look like on a day?
[00:15:54] Jason: Um, with zeros, I averaged about 17 and a half. I want to say I started off really slow because I was actually I was so stupid. I am I pushed way too hard on a couple training hikes, like 70 miles and three days. And I was just really dumb. It's my toe messed up my knee so I started injured. So I was only doing like 12 to 15 a day but we got up to There were some days in Pennsylvania. We did like, 30 miles plus, This day sucked because the Rocks up there but
[00:16:24] Tayson: your feet are ya.
[00:16:28] Jason: I had a real good pair of shoes with lots of cushion, but roughly, I like to do about 20, 222 miles. So, that's kind of my sweet spot that's kind of what I like doing.
[00:16:38] Tayson: Yeah. D which is which is a lot, right? Like Why? Why hike over 20 miles a day? Like, what's what's? So the
[00:16:49] Jason: trips that I go on and I get this, I get Asked and I'm one of those people that, like, hate the, the fighting between your, you know, you need to slow down, you need to speed up, you're going to slow. I love. Just like let people hike the way they want to do and my thought behind it. Is I'm driving. Sometimes 12 hours for these trips. I want to see as much of the areas as I possibly can because it's just I like hiking over camping. So if I wake up early and I get to Camp it, you know, seven eight o'clock. That's okay with me. I've seen as much as I possibly done have done as much as I possibly could do. And then I'm actually tired at night and I'll just do it again tomorrow, you know, some days. I sometimes I do the the low mileage, you know, ate the 12th, and those are specifically camping trips. So those are like with my stepdaughter or somebody and those are great too. If I know like I'm gonna have like an awesome campsite on a mountain or something, and, you know, I want to take in the scenery like that but conditioning thing for me, mostly Yeah,
[00:17:47] Tayson: I can resonate with that a lot. It's like between family and work and just responsibilities. Yeah, it can be, it can be really tough to get the amount of time you want and then When you start upping your mileage, you start to realize like, hey, this Trail is now possible or this Trail is not possible in the time frames that I have, right? And so right, I think that's been a big motivator for for me. So it's actually one of the reasons I started to even trail run and some of that to train when I was like, man, if if I could do that kind of mileage suddenly, these trails that I thought were, I mean, like the you went to Highline show, for instance, is a good example that I always thought that was like, A seven to nine or eight to ten day trip. And Because of that, it was always like, I don't know when Oliver gets to do that when, you know, but then it was like well if I could get, you know, if I could get up mileage and get get consistent enough and what not to do 20 plus miles a day now, that's more like a five five-day trip and I can't, I could make that happen, you know what I mean? I can make that happen. And so he did and I think, ever, since that realization happened, it's it's opened up a world of of Additional trails and opportunities, right?
[00:19:01] Jason: Right. Absolutely.
[00:19:04] Tayson: Yeah, I don't know. I just, I just thought I was interesting. I guess that you are training as well. For these see. So, like, right right now essentially, you're training for For some of these blitzes I guess you could say what you're driving or not. But what will you do to train for a through hike?
[00:19:25] Jason: The same thing I'm doing now. Plus working out getting the legs in the back. Good, you know what I mean? Just making something else stretched out while still going on trips. As much as I can. Work for the ET. So yeah,
[00:19:37] Tayson: right. Right when you start will you start at going right back into 20 mile days? Or do you think you'll try to start slower
[00:19:44] Jason: from what I'm reading and watching on YouTube? The the PT's little different where, you know, it's it's not it's a slow grade, it's great for horses. So it's not like you're like straight up Rock scrambling and Main like, you know, that's that's the only thing that I have in my mind that I've done the only experience I have on, I've never Hiked on the west coast, it's always been on the East Coast. You mentioned that you went to I want to do that so bad but I want to take a buddy with me on the plane just to kind of share the experience, my buddy, my hiking buddy. He's actually having a baby this year so that's kind of the question for a couple more years but I think I'll bust out of the gate slow again and for me slow is between 12 and 16 and then I'll build up to the 20 and see how I feel especially with the desert sections and you know they got what is it now 193% snow on average. This year over the PCC can't plan for that man. You know. That's not.
[00:20:43] Tayson: It's it's gonna hold us out of the High Country for a while. It's gonna be It's gonna be rough. We're we're just looking at a trip in June into the uintas and it's like, even and another trip, you know, into the sawtooths in July and it's like we're gonna still have tons of tons of snow. I mean, It'll be interesting it for I think right now. in our local area where like a 230 or something like that percent snow pack of normal and so yeah, it's it's it's pretty wild. Yeah. Anyways that that makes a lot of sense. I think it's really wise though to still start slower in mileage and scale up, I think. Yeah,
[00:21:24] Jason: he really was on your body.
[00:21:27] Tayson: Yeah. So I want to try and transition just here for a second and talk a little bit about YouTube.
[00:21:33] Jason: Sure.
[00:21:34] Tayson: Hey I think that you've got a really interesting. Perspective on YouTube in the way that you approach gear reviews or analyzing gear. I was watching some of your most recent recent videos and, you know, you can tell when our viewers maybe don't have as much personal experience with with items and what they're looking for versus versus others. But I mean, obviously, your Trail experience your time, doing this really shines through, in a lot of a lot of your your channel and what you're doing. Yeah, yeah no I think appreciate you. I mean putting out that kind of content right. It's really valuable I think to a lot of people which is why you're still doing YouTube, right? But When it comes to YouTube, I guess. Or excuse me when it comes to gear selection. How do you think people are? How would you recommend people prioritize what to select in gear, or where do you feel like people are making their biggest
[00:22:34] Jason: mistakes? I feel like people making their biggest mistakes on YouTube watching the unboxing. Open this product. I'm gonna tell you, I've been using it for two weeks. I mean you hit the nail on the head there, I try not to give a reviews until, you know, 100 miles into the product. And by that time, sometimes it's Is the version 2 has come out already? You know what I mean? I think a lot of people, A focus on. These absorbents of items. And that's okay if you're using them a lot. Like, for me that it warrants the money because I'm using them sometimes upwards of four times a month. But if you're going maybe twice a year, I think a lot of people think they need this to be like, I don't know. Cool in the backpacking world but you don't need a, you know, an ultra or DCF pack. You know, for a twice, a year camping trip with your kids, like it's kind of ridiculous, you know. Just you really need to look at multiple reviewers and not just hit on the first one, I guess this is the thing.
[00:23:39] Tayson: Yeah. Um, so what I mean? I think there's a lot of that, right? There's like, this, this aspect of you need this to, to backpack, or you need. You know, fill in the blank to, to be considered ultra light, or or anything like that. Like, did you have a journey into your gear? I mean, how did you get into the gear that you're out of? Where did you start? And what did that look like?
[00:24:07] Jason: Oh yeah, my first year, the first Like they did was a 70 mile hike over the course of six days. My weight, my trail weight food, and water was 56 pounds. And I went and I got,
[00:24:22] Tayson: what's your frame like like how big of a guy are you just? I
[00:24:25] Jason: am. A five. Sick 135 pounds soaking wet with
[00:24:30] Tayson: the 50.
[00:24:31] Jason: Yeah, with the 56 pound pack. Now that was six days of food. A half days of food.
[00:24:37] Tayson: I hope you ate like crazy. I
[00:24:39] Jason: did, I was hungry.
[00:24:40] Tayson: Yeah.
[00:24:41] Jason: Um, but you know, the, the next year I dropped 20 pounds, I realized, you know, this Rex salesman, man. He got great at all knowledge, but I didn't need half the stuff he threw in the pack that Check out line. You know what I mean? And I'm not knocking already. I mean you gotta you gotta go in there with a buddy that has hiked before or I'll see you on the wrist coming out with all this stuff that you don't need. But you know, I went from Boots, the trail Runners that first year I went from, you know, a big 65 liter pack all the way down to a 48 liter pack and now I'm sitting at a I think in the summer I'll be at 8. 1 8. So I'm not there was a huge push. It's it's interesting. This is this is something that I further reinforced in my mind when I was hiking the at, these are so many people worried about hitting that magic 10 pound number and it's just absolutely ridiculous. I was one of those people. I was like, okay, I need to get 10 pounds because at some point when I hit 10 pounds I'm gonna hike, you know, the farthest. I'm gonna turn into a some kind of Superhero. I'm gonna Camp better. I'm gonna hike better and then I want to hit it. I was like well this is just exactly the same as when I was a 12 pounds. And you know I'm Not Afraid. Now, you know to add some Luxury items in the my pack I I keep it low just because I know that I have it band or knee problems or health problems. So it allows the lower base weight allows me to kind of how I want to hike. But man, that's nothing to do with a number. I wish people would get that.
[00:26:20] Tayson: Yeah. well, and I want to come back to that. Where do you think people should? Because Like you start at 56 pounds and I didn't sound like you were recommending that, but maybe he just set the story straight where, where should be a good starting point for someone because, right? Like a lot of times you're spending more money to save weight. So like some of the time, right? Um but like where's the healthy place to start where you're not too heavy but you're not you're not going out on like a crazy. Limb of I need a DCF 10th and backpack and toothbrush.
[00:26:56] Jason: I think between 14 and 18 pounds, I think anybody could do starting out of the gate, you just got to be real careful with your gear selection and by the backpack. Last, you get your gear first, see what you need, put it in your pack and then when you get back from a trip this, I mean everybody gives us advice. Get back from the trip layout all your gear. What didn't I use? What's safe to get rid of and then don't
[00:27:17] Tayson: bring it to the next time. Is that ever gotten you into trouble with say, whether or anything like that, like, you've gone too far in that direction
[00:27:25] Jason: know. But I do know people that have gotten in trouble like that they, you know, they don't not bringing their filter and other in some murky Beaver, Pond that they have to get water. Um, and I don't agree with that at all. I mean, I'll help this people. Absolutely. But you got to stay safe, you never, you never know when you're going to run into a bad weather situation, and you don't have enough clothes or, you know, something gets wet. Hole in your tents. Something happens in the middle of the night. You gotta be prepared for that, kind of stuff.
[00:27:53] Tayson: Great, right. So So when you hike the at, did you hike it with a framed pack or a frameless pack?
[00:28:00] Jason: I started with basically there. Yeah. So I was 12 or 13 pounds in the winter because I started early. Excuse me, late February, pretty much before the ball. I don't I don't want to be around the bubble. I wanted my soul to and then I ended up hiking with seven other people but that's another story. I started with a frame pack a z packs pack and then I moved on to when I got rid of my heavier like winter quilt, my 20 degree quilt, my jackets. Up to a frameless pack. Somewhere around Virginia or Mi
[00:28:35] Tayson: 700. In your mind up. Yeah, and your mind, what's the what was the benefit of jumping to that frameless?
[00:28:46] Jason: Um, it brought me by another pound and a half or a pound. I guess you should say, the half was, you know, the quilts and the the jacket and everything, really no benefit. I am. I'm a sufferer, a lot of chafing. So not having the hip belts not having the back the frame on the back. Like, right, right above your butt. It just lets everything breathe down there. And that's honestly why I do frameless. Now, I hate having a hip belt.
[00:29:15] Tayson: Interesting. I mean you're probably I mean a factor of when you're hiking that fast too, like it can free up your hips a little bit more to for motion, right, right. It's interesting. I mean, you I don't do a lot of frameless stuff. We do have a pack. That's all of our frames are removable and our packs and stuff but we have one pack that's specifically going to be a frameless pack. It's a fast pack and it's You know, in Utah. It's it's it can be tough because it's so dry. Right? Like that's a factor for us out here like so I did 100 miles on the at last summer. I went to Trail days and then and then just hopped on the trail for a bit and Man, I it's embarrassing but I mean we didn't have far out, we didn't use the app, which was a mistake you know, by the end like oh so good personal Sherpa on the trail for me know like it's okay. And so I think when we like we were carrying I'm pretty sure at one point, I had four liters of water in my pack. I've done that Ramos. Yeah. Yeah, and I wasn't even in a frameless pack, but it was just like it was just so silly. By the time we were to the end. It's like one liter one and a half, two liters like that was adequate and I mean, you can still get into trouble that way if you don't
[00:30:38] Jason: have no water situation. But
[00:30:41] Tayson: yeah, it was, it was drastic because for the most part, unless we're using that fast packets, like, I'm still using a frame. because you can just be loaded up on water a lot, a lot out here, food water, but So take me back through like you get you get your base weight down to now eight pounds. But sometimes you're adding in a luxury item. What's a luxury item look like to you. What is that?
[00:31:05] Jason: Like, oh Tent. Put a, you know, under quilt in there because I sleep. Better in a hammock. I do a tent. I actually I take the 10 a lot now because of the PCT hike. I want to kind of, I don't know nothing about you know, dealing with condensation. Intense. I've been in a ham with a tarp for the past like six years. So I'm like the Best Noob with a tent but I'm learning. I've done two years at 10:30 or 3 years at 10:30 now, so that's one of the items, you know. Maybe it's not really a lot of luxury, headers back here. I'm just kind of look and see. um, fridge hammock for instance I would love to take the bridge hammock out its back in the corner over here but you know, as spreader bars So, those spreader bars aren't lights. And The Hammocks also really bulky but that would be like a luxury and just to be able to try that out on a weekend trip, something like that.
[00:32:01] Tayson: Yeah, I was wondering if you're gonna say, like, a full toothbrush, instead of a half toothbrush. Oh,
[00:32:05] Jason: I, I carry the full travel toothbrush. I'm not one of those people to cut my bamboo in house. Now like that at all.
[00:32:11] Tayson: Yeah, I mean back to your point original point though, like it is it's so easy to compare base weights and get fixated on these numbers too. Yeah. But, you know, even even your size, can can factor that, right? Like I'm so I'm 62 and so I'm a long wide on every pad, I'm a long life and every you know, I'm if there's a tall option. A lot of times I'm picking a tall jacket option and you know, and all those little touch points, add up to and then seasonality, right? Like when you're starting in February, that's totally different than these eight pound bass weights, that maybe are getting clicks and to use on YouTube. That's a summer base weight in lows of 40 and 50 degree temperatures. Yeah, I think I think Really the most valuable. I say the only the only comparison we're doing in life is to compare yourself today versus your Parish yourself of the past, right? So I I would agree with that. Personally, I usually will get my basically down to about 10 pounds and then I'll add in luxury items, the luxury item. For me could be a fishing pole. It could be,
[00:33:20] Jason: yeah, a pair of binoculars
[00:33:23] Tayson: or a binocular. It could be. Yeah, I'm gonna bring a helix chair because we're not doing as many like a high mileage trip or something. I might actually be sitting a camper once or
[00:33:32] Jason: yeah, you know
[00:33:32] Tayson: something, something along those lines. But I do love to at least in like, summertime be down on that 10 pound range and then give myself because I'm kind of the same like between 10 and 12 pounds. A lot of times, it's it's not super perceivable, and so it's It's it's if there's if there's things that make a difference, I mean, bring them don't get so fixated on.
[00:33:53] Jason: Absolutely. You need an extra jacket or something, you know, or have your jacket, I should say. There's a chance at like about the 20 or something ridiculous, you know, right? I'll just rock your hoodies.
[00:34:06] Tayson: Just never stop moving. That's the thing. You don't need to bring how many clothes if you just never stop moving, right?
[00:34:12] Jason: is a storms and stuff either, you know, sacrifice sacrifice my hoodie now, and you know, be cold tonight or You know, yes. Is that foggy rainy crap that you get sometimes?
[00:34:24] Tayson: There's some truth to that like if you're planning on sitting in Camp for a long period of time like you need to bring more clothes honestly. Because you're just stagnant. You get cold versus yeah, being moving and then kind of being going straight into the shelter, right? Like when you're doing 20 plus mile days. Like usually I mean for us, typically for doing 20 plus miles a day, like on that you into. It's like I mean you're hiking. You you have dinner and then you can hike another hour or two or whatever. And then I mean it's just not sitting around Camp. You're like you say, like we're there to hike and enjoy the views hiking not necessarily to to be in Camp and seeing whatever views might be available at Camp. So, So you have some videos on food. Oh gosh. Which that was like my favorite question to ask people on the at really, really, was, is like, We're showing up for a week, right? And We kind of have an infinite supply of quality peek peek you'll meals and we you know, we retail honey stinger and Peak and Mountain House. And so we just kind of have we have the luxury of of that, right? But but these three hikers, a lot of them are on strict budgets. They're on You know, whatever is available at the store, whatever, you know, all that kind of stuff. And so I was just constantly asking people, like what are you eating? What do you know like like I really want to know like how you can you can put your body through this and it can Can be okay? And I think I've learned one thing that's it's that your body is insanely good at eating like how to say It's like the best flex fuel machine there. That was ever built, right? I mean you can just people shove just all sorts of crap down there and it burns it and you can keep moving but like I'm always like my thought was you're always told growing up like you need vegetables, right? Or you need to eat. Those types of foods, right? And then you look at like what people are eating, what's available at the store and it's like, I don't see anything Green in your pack, man. That's a gummy bear. Not, he's the broccoli, right? So, I guess. For. So, first, first food question is, you know, how do you, how do you maintain healthy caloric intake or or was that? Not really a problem? Is that, like, if you didn't eat vegetables for months at a time, let's say, or much fruit, even does that become problematic? Or do you think it's a problem? Or do you think it's not something to worry about?
[00:36:57] Jason: Golden question here. There's a story will come along with this but you know that you remember the scene from the first Back to the Future movie at the end where he's filling up Mr. Fusion with like banana peels and beers. Remember that thing that's that's exactly what the through I can body is like and whatever you can get. You just shove it in just for energy. But I actually I didn't know this at the time but in Virginia And what I think is an iron deficiency. And when I got home, I was like, why am I so tired? I just figured. I was tired from hiking but that continued for like 10 months. After I got home. Finally, I got fed up. I was like dude, I can't even like swing a hammer. I'm like doing a project in my basement. Couldn't swing a hammer like I'm like Tired. Just so tired and it's like yeah you're low iron. You iron pills for like 60 days. I'm like whoa. That's like I didn't eat any greens while I was out there and I think that was like super detrimental like I could tell you every single thing I had every single day because I meet the same things every day and while I was in town I get a burger or an entire pizza and that's what I would eat. Yeah,
[00:38:01] Tayson: let us on there in a pickle.
[00:38:03] Jason: Yeah, pretty much. But now, the knowing what I know now, I would have went for chicken salads every single time I wanted to town. You know. Yeah. And I think that gets totally ignored and I think I think people just get tired when they're out there, if it happened to me, it's gonna happen to many, many people, you know.
[00:38:22] Tayson: yeah it's a and like iron for instance you get you get under an iron it it's a Slow regain, right? I mean it's not like take you just oh I need to eat something with iron in it and it's absorbed like it takes Months. Like you said, like 60 days, right? For you is what you're yeah. So yeah. One day I'll probably takes a while to to the level off your iron but then it takes it a while to build back
[00:38:45] Jason: and it was, it was weird. It was, it was an all of a sudden, kind of thing. I was always tired. When I woke up, I had like four or five cups of coffee. And I woke up one day, I was like, you know, that one movie with getting to the Greek. The furry wall and it was crazy, how it happened. But now I just see the whole bunch of salads and green. So,
[00:39:06] Tayson: Yeah, you think you'll take like a? Like they make like a green greens powders or greens. you know, maybe
[00:39:12] Jason: like snap peas and other kind of dehydrated and I don't know, maybe, I don't know.
[00:39:20] Tayson: Yeah, because there's
[00:39:21] Jason: how stops. I think what? You know this actually having salads Still some
[00:39:26] Tayson: kind of you know you want a pizza when you go into town
[00:39:28] Jason: or a burger and 20 oz Burger. Yeah, yeah. And
[00:39:32] Tayson: I mean, I'm speaking of Greece, one of the tips that you gave was to just add olive oil to
[00:39:38] Jason: absolutely Healthy fats. Yeah,
[00:39:41] Tayson: talk through that. Talk through that.
[00:39:43] Jason: Um, so if you watched I don't know if you guys are alone fans at all on Discovery or whatever it's channel. It's on but they always talk about a little. They always talk about eating healthy fats like I'm gonna die. If I don't have healthy fats and olive oil is one of those things you can put in everything and it's okay. I feel like at least that's what my doctor tells me. It's just, it's just extra healthy calories, just to add just to get you to that. You know, sometimes you're needing upwards of 3,000 4000 calories a day just to maintain your body weight. Let's see what's four and a 500 miles in. And I had gained 10 pounds before I hit the 80, just kind of throwing up fat reserves. So I stay warmer in the winter and when I got to this winter, oh, just because I'm doing, I'm nothing, there's nothing to me. I had that put on something. Just a little bit more, man. It worked. It totally worked, but I got to the mountain Harbor hostel. A Route 19. I forget what state that's in but I'd lost Nine pounds and I'm like, dude, how's that even possible? I've been eating, like a fiend. I've been eating 20 oz, burgers and hot springs and like get milkshakes and stuff and like, and I still lost all this weight. Now, this is incredible how much you need to eat. So they all will definitely helps even if you get a tablespoon in every meal,
[00:41:03] Tayson: Or, yeah, I know, I know that like, watches and stuff aren't like the most accurate things ever. But When I go out and some were doing like, big days and stuff, I'll break 5,000, you know, 6,000 calories, burned in the day and like, you just can't, you can't. You can't eat that much food. I mean it's hard unless you're like training your gut to you how much food. I only really talking to a few guys who can eat that much food on trail and they're they're like Katie guys that have like, they're like, you know, I mean like like Joshua. Perry the fkt on the TV. Yeah.
[00:41:41] Jason: So I saw. Yeah
[00:41:42] Tayson: yeah. And I mean, he's eating 12,000 calories a day. Yeah. So like 6,000 of those calories and Eminem's and gummy bears. You know? But anyways, um yeah. Like I don't think you can out-eat. That like like your caloric burn when you're actually hiking like if you're doing like five miles or 10 miles.
[00:42:03] Jason: Oh yeah
[00:42:04] Tayson: yeah but when you're when you're when you're doing 20 like that means your emotions so much of the day you're on your desk so much of the day. So it makes a ton of sense to to add that. I mean it's cheap. It's it's convenient. They're like you can find all of oil so many places. Yeah I think that's a really really solid tip for sure. I mean, speaking of that, how much did you ever track? Like let's say by the end of it how much calories, how many calories you were eating in a day? Would you did you care about that? Or what were how do you know how you're doing?
[00:42:34] Jason: I can probably did at one point. I don't remember what I can tell you every single thing I had, you know, starting from Pennsylvania on because I Have every day. I was the same. It was just made recent applies. These are you know what? You know what, you needed to get some point. I did count the calories, and okay, this is where I need, but I ended At 140 pounds. So I only lost I lost 10, but since the, since that Route, 19 stop where I lost nine, you know, it was, it was pretty dead, even the rest of the way and I was, we're talking thousands of miles at that point.
[00:43:08] Tayson: Yeah. That's that's impressive. That's really impressive. Subscribe to our listeners. I don't think I've ever talked about this because I don't, I won't, I don't eat them firstly. But what is a Ramen bomb?
[00:43:26] Jason: All.
[00:43:26] Tayson: And how often did you eat those?
[00:43:29] Jason: I didn't eat them often. because I was kind of sick of them, but even before the trail, but It's instant mashed potatoes and ramen noodles and whatever you kind of have laying in your pack. Whether it be like, M&Ms, or people do a whole bunch of different things. I just kind of stuck with the ramen noodles, the flavor packet in the instant mashed potatoes. And you're looking at, you know, 800 900 calories for for a little Ziploc bag full, that's stuff.
[00:43:56] Tayson: Yeah, that's a carbs in that. Is it? Do you? Did you feel like yeah, lots of cards? You was tasty, or no?
[00:44:05] Jason: Time. I had it but it gets old real quick.
[00:44:07] Tayson: Yeah,
[00:44:08] Jason: like I would add, I would my main sustenance. Out there were rice and pasta north side. And then if I had it too much water, I would always have one or two instant mashed potatoes, a different flavors. And I would add that in just one be watered down and that worked really well to get the calories in the olive oil. Like I said,
[00:44:26] Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, I feel like whenever I try to eat ramen or or even the instant mashed potatoes, they can make me feel full really fast, and then it's just like two hours or an hour later. I'm like, starving. And I'm I don't know if that's just a me thing but maybe if you combine Ramen that's maybe a stick with the little bit long. okay, last thing, well, not last thing, but I'm gonna shift off food here for just a second and I want to have a and you can you can say pass if you want on this but I'm interested in this, I feel, I feel like I should have tried this along time ago and it's, it's just, I don't know, I'm not being proactive enough to get one ordered up and try this, but you now use a bidet.
[00:45:21] Jason: I know that was coming. Yeah, yeah.
[00:45:23] Tayson: So totally talk about it
[00:45:27] Jason: now. We'll totally.
[00:45:30] Tayson: I, I think, I think I'm gonna get on this, this I mean, it's hard in Utah when there can't be sometimes there's not water, just depends right? That's my baby. That's been honestly. My biggest concerns I could never fully rely on a date but But I'm very intrigued, I spent quite a bit of time in Malaysia and over there. I mean, it was here's a cup and a bucket of water type of thing. And and now we've got fancy toilets. I without sanding too privileged which I feel really privileged when I was talking about food and how, like, we just kind of half like can kind of pick whatever food. And I feel, I'm very lucky for that right now. I've got a, I've got a toilet that has a built-in bidet, that I haven't even started to use it, like, it's in this removing into this house and it's, I don't know how I feel about, like, I sat on it just to make sure it even worked. And I was like, okay, You know, um yeah. Anyways, back to a trail today which is Affordable. Why, why do you, why, why have one should people give this a shot? Or do you think that they should be like, because I feel like if I brought up in my office, right, with my team? Of like let's say Five Guys that I pitched this too. I feel like one would be like maybe the other forth he like You're freaking crazy. Don't like, like, I'm kind of say, like, we'll see how many listen to this, but I'm probably gonna take one and just tell no one on my team, you know what I mean? Just
[00:47:11] Jason: usually keep a secret. Yeah.
[00:47:16] Tayson: Anyways, you're still using it. So why why are you still use it? What do you like?
[00:47:22] Jason: So I'm not to get to. For detail here. I just don't like the whole experience of pooping in the woods that's just never something. I don't think anybody last well, some people really enjoy it way more than they should, but for the most part, I think most people like kind of dread it. It's the whole dig in the cat hole and then backpacking food is not the E to come out, right? If you can squirt water back there and clean the majority of it up, right without toilet paper, without making a mess. And you can like, you know really aim over the cat hole. It's just it's so hard to tell someone unless they tried it. I didn't like, I'm only gonna try this because this one subscriber told me to try and, you know, I'm always open to trying new things on the trail because it's the things that you don't try that. You usually, like, you end up enjoying the most but it's just, it's completely changed, you know, chafing issues for me because you're always clean back there. Then you don't have to rely on wet wives that you have to pack out anyway. A toilet paper. I hate burying. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't, but it's just. It's like a No Mess, no fuss. You know and then you take your your doctor Bronner's or Bonners or how do you say that or your Camp Suds? And you just Wipe up and just wash it all down. The cat hole, you know?
[00:48:47] Tayson: Yeah,
[00:48:47] Jason: it's definitely worth a try. It's worth two trees because the first the first time, the first time you're going to get your pants soaked and wet. It's just you're not gonna know how to do it for the second time. You'll have it figured out.
[00:49:00] Tayson: It's a good note to self maybe. Yeah, I don't know, solo trip first. But yeah, I think the, the thing I'm most intrigued by that with is That was not English. The thing I'm most intrigued by that. I can't. is it's just the fact of chafing, like, I could see because by day, like four, five, I'm starting to fill it back there and I could see that being a big advantage,
[00:49:28] Jason: Of absolutely,
[00:49:29] Tayson: okay.
[00:49:30] Jason: Take a look at that. Yeah.
[00:49:33] Tayson: Because I've even had this where I've been like all right you guys, go ahead. Like we're passing like a river. You guys, go ahead. I'm just gonna like Squat down and and clean up because I'm trying to because it's, it's strictly for like chafing. Like I just feel like that's sucks. That development
[00:49:48] Jason: sucks. Yeah.
[00:49:49] Tayson: So
[00:49:50] Jason: and that and that body Glide stuff. It only works to a certain extent before you then you Feel Sicky at night, I hate using that stuff unless it's on my feet or something, you know, it just feels gross, I don't know, I feel a lot cleaner, whatever, I use the bidet.
[00:50:03] Tayson: Yeah. Okay. Love you, we made it through that. So yeah. I, I want to ask you this a lot of times. A lot of times when you're personality, um, you know, running a YouTube channel or in the public eye. you, you have a bit of a I don't say like facade, right, but like, it's like an image. Right? And sure. And and people are interested in this part of your life, right? But maybe not this part of your life and so that's what makes it in front of other people. So I wanted to ask you what, you wish people knew about you that they don't because of that.
[00:50:45] Jason: only anyone knows that I'm super sarcastic like So the point where I'm almost annoying, but at least that's what my wife tells me. But That's about it. The person that I portray on YouTube is pretty much who I am. I just take a little bit of the sarcasm out you can definitely, you can definitely hear the sarcasm when I'm with other people, but on solo trips. I don't think you'd ever pick up on it.
[00:51:06] Tayson: Gotcha. that's, that's I was curious if you respond that way because I feel like I feel like you do portray yourself as very much. Raw, right? Like kind of going back to what I was saying about the at experience and you're filming of it. It's very raw, it's very real. And I and I I appreciate personally that you're open to talk about things like, hey, I wasn't in a good mental spotter or mental health or, you know, struggling with this and I think so often that gets pushed by the wayside when in reality it's it's a it's a pandemic, I think in our day and age, Sure it's more concerning than most other things in life, right? So
[00:51:51] Jason: I agree.
[00:51:51] Tayson: I appreciate that. That Ross Prospect of what you share and that you are you know, just willing to to be you online. So Well, is there anything that we didn't touch on today that you hope I would have? I guess anything we missed.
[00:52:07] Jason: I think that's, that was really fun. Thanks for having me, for sure. Yeah.
[00:52:12] Tayson: No, I I really appreciate it. You come on. It's fun to get to know you. It's, it's It's always fun, I guess to just sit down and have these conversations and hear some of the things that maybe don't make it on to YouTube. But I think your channel is well worth checking out. So anyone who has not yet, followed Outdoor Adventures, go check it out. Is really, really honest. Reviews. Really great Trail time on their trips and whatnot. So so make sure to go check that out and I'm Gonna Leave You with one last question and Hammock or tent. What are you can cheat? You only have to sleep, you have to sleep in one, the rest of your life.
[00:52:52] Jason: Oh yeah, 100%,
