[00:00:00] Tayson: Everybody welcome back to the live ultralight podcast, powered by outdoor vitals. If you are new to the podcast, this podcast is all about getting you outdoors, more comfortably, more confidently and therefore hopefully more consistently today. We have a very special episode one that I think you guys will really enjoy because you guys really enjoy our product Deep dive episodes. And then this one, it's not so much a product Deep dive, but it is going to be a full-on sneak. Peek of an upcoming product, that we internally call this the CS40. Well and I think this will be the title of it out outside the company as well, but we're very excited to give you guys a few details. Talk about the backstory of a brand new backpack in our line. So on the episode today we have Brigham our product designer and Derek a director of marketing to share a few sneak peek pieces of information on this. We're also going to be doing a giveaway of this backpack. If you win the giveaway, you'll actually get your backpack a little bit before everyone else, but it will be The backpack we're not going to share prices just yet but just know. This is a very valuable giveaway. So stay tuned for the details on how you can be entered into the giveaway at the end of this episode. So with that, how are you guys doing today?
[00:01:15] Derek: Doing awesome.
[00:01:16] Tayson: I'm pumped about this. It's been a long time coming Brigham. It's probably no secret that you love designing backpacks and This mean we are dropping the shadow. Light, are we done with the Shadowlight or nope. So what does it mean?
[00:01:35] Brigham: Just means we're we're adding another backpack to our to our backpacking line and hopefully you know, appealing to more people. I think that's really what it comes down to. Is Just putting out another good product, that is going to be attractive and suit. The needs of people in a different way that then maybe the shadow light does.
[00:02:03] Tayson: Yeah, the Shadow Lights been incredibly good seller for us. It's been one of our best selling products for years now and feedback is always been great on it. It's been a little product but we've never wanted to be a single backpack, company backpacks. Take Some serious time in development to get, right? So, I mean, I don't know. I mean, how much after even releasing the shadowlight. Did you start to
[00:02:28] Brigham: work on this project? well, it wasn't, it wasn't that long at, I mean, especially in terms of Mind work, I would say just in terms of like allocation of resources towards projects, it might have been like a few months not like not long, we didn't rest
[00:02:51] Tayson: long for sure. And I think I think from the beginning you were always kind of mapping Out Concepts I think, I think you didn't share concepts with me for a little while after the shadow light but you know, when you did share your like I've been I've been thinking for a while, we need to do this, you know, by the time you you brought up to me. But I mean, we always knew that we'd have multiple products. Backpacks in our line. And so, This is going to be fun. You guys have probably seen all. So for a while, let's talk a little bit even about our fast packs. You Documentaries out about our fast packs. But we've been designing this just as long, if not longer than the Fastback in all reality, but we've kept it a little bit more close to the vast a little bit more secretive if you can say that. So, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna pull back the curtain, just a little bit on the fact that we do have another framed backpack in the works. And we'll give you some high-level Concepts on that. So you want to start? I mean, where you guys want to start today? You guys want to start with talking about kind of the concept behind this pack or do you guys rather start by talking about backstory
[00:03:59] Derek: of use cases? Well, one thing that you'll often hear Brigham say around here at the office. Is that you know, we never intended this for for one backpack to be the you know, meets all requirements backpack, that's never been the case and one thing that I'm really excited about with this new CS, 40 Old trip back back as just The use case scenario on this, what it was designed for, how we came up with that, how we discovered what the needs really are that the Shadowlight wallet is an amazing backpack. There's still some things that it was not designed to do in the first place that the cs40 is. And I think that's one of the things that I'm most excited
[00:04:41] Tayson: about getting into. Yeah, so let's, let's start there. Let's start with kind of the general design concept, Brigham what the cs40 is and who it's for? That's good.
[00:04:51] Brigham: Yeah. Yeah, conceptually there's let's kind of start with some like the basics. in terms of, Our thought processes or our philosophy in. What? A backpacking backpack. like almost by default should have or do and we've talked about it before same thing as like with our Shadowlight backpack is you know, we in terms of it, let's call it a backpacking backpack. So, this isn't, we're not talking about like a fast pack or like something meant for running, but, you know, a backpack. We generally, you know, believe that we want and the best way of making a comfortable backpack is by having good stability, support and load transfer. So there's a few things that that almost inherently requires things like a comfortable supportive hip belt and An adequate paak height, that includes a support structure. That's generally referred to as a frame or an internal frame. But what that support structure does, is it stabilizes the load? And it transfers the weight most effectively and efficiently to the hips which are a more suitable over long, duration platform to carry weight other than your your shoulders. So those are kind of like the general broad concepts of like where we're working around when we're approaching a new backpacking pack Comfort stability. Support load transfer other General things that are directed to like low transfer and support. When I mentioned like a proper height of backpack A hip belt will carry a lot of weight, but it won't do it as a fishy. If the weight isn't efficiently transferred, And that takes place via. Support structure that is tall enough that it extends above the shoulders so that you can have load lift or straps. that basically, Relieve pressure from the tops of the shoulder and that pressure equates to compression of the spine. And so those load lifter straps. They have to be placed at an angle that's higher or at a placement, that's higher than the shoulder so that they have an upward angle so that when you tension them, it physically is lifting almost. It's removing weight from the top of your shoulders and your spine. And then it's traveling down the support structure of the backpack. To where it's anchored at the hips. So that's kind of what we're working around when, When approaching in our minds, a proper
[00:07:48] Tayson: backpacking pack. So, on that note, A critical pieces of that are how it's tying in to the hip belt that it is extending above the shoulder, your shoulders as well. Those was basically have to be in place for it to properly transfer the load down into the hips where it's not compressing your spine or weighing in on your shoulders over time, right? Hypothetically if you had a support structure or frame that was lower than your shoulders or even equal to your shoulders, the only transfer. Really that can happen in that point is straight back but that doesn't actually take the load off of your shoulders. All it really is going to be able to do is provide maybe
[00:08:35] Brigham: some more structure to the backpack structure and stability. And then you're just going to get a much more. There's going to be more weight emphasis on your upper torso, then your hips, because the weight you're hanging. Weight off your body. That's essentially what the suspension of a backpack. Does your shoulder straps is your. Now, your placing weight and they're, it's being held by the shoulder straps. And so, gravity takes the effect of the bag and pulls it down and away. And so your shoulder straps. Hold it up. So it doesn't fall to the ground. Now, at some point. a waste, the hip belt will carry some of that weight, but It's much more comfortable over a long duration. There's much more, much, less fatigue on your shoulders and back. if you can transfer the majority of the weight to the hips, so that's that's kind of like The. Just like the basics of what we design a backpack around. I think
[00:09:46] Derek: that's a really good background on the the mindset. We have, when we're designing packs and how important it is to us getting out on the trail and knowing how important that that load transfer is. It's just so important for for comfort. The shadow light that we've already had out from multiple years as mentioned, does that really well? The CS40 does as well. So, maybe let's send some time talking about, what's different about the CS40 and, and why we're so excited about a whole new
[00:10:15] Brigham: pack. Yeah. so, I mean, when we got to actually It's kind of refining. What this backpack would be. and again, we mentioned it earlier, we wanted to kind of Reach new more users, right? So if the shadow light, let's just say that the shadow light doesn't check all the boxes for some people. You know we feel like we can check some more boxes with this pack that there's people out there that were are going to prefer this more than the other. and, you know, some of the Some of the goals were to. Make a backpack that would do that. There's some of the things would be like, Not goal. Number one. It wasn't necessarily to make the lightest weight backpack possible, but knowing that there's a lot of Backpackers out there that are very experienced, they consistently, you know, have no problem. You know, achieving like a really low base weight, you know, 10 pound 9 Pound, 11 pound base weight. That. They've been doing it long enough that they always, they know exactly what they're taking. They have their system really well dialed in. They have a process for covering their miles in the mountains or on the trails and so, this backpack is more catered to do those people that they know exactly how they pack. They know exactly what they pack. They're covering lots of miles. and so that kind of like, those parameters start to shape the backpack design a bit in terms of like Features or you know, lack of pockets and things like that. And it becomes a very minimalist pack which is really easy to do, it's really easy to make a minimalist pack. But, going back to kind of the background, or, like, kind of the foundational principles of what we think of backpack should do and be. That's where a lot of the design effort went into was okay. Really easy to make them a little less pack, but it's got to be really comfortable for long, you know, 20 to 30 Mi days. You know, a lot of physical effort, where potentially there's going to be more water, carrying involved multi days of food involved. So just making the most lightweight minimalist pack isn't going to cut it. Got to be comfortable for the Long Haul. I think the best way to like sum that up is that it's,
[00:13:02] Tayson: it's a little more streamlined than the shadow light. It's got a little bit less organization per se in it, and it's just a little bit more trimmed down so that it can be a little bit more of a faster lighter pack per se for some people. That's, that's a benefit, right? Because they've already got their systems down like program has has mentioned And and it, you know, obviously with that too. It typically means that we're going to be able to shave off a little bit of weight off of the pack to boots. So so yeah. I mean I think that the goal here as far as like a high level concept of what this backpack is is Shadowlight. We really tried to build a pack that was Ultra Lite sub two pounds but then still had a lot of features and options in the pack so that you could, you know, Store things in in their own compartments, like on the two upper pockets on the shadow, on the two side upper Pockets were to have two mesh pockets in the back or to have the centers zipper. it's kind of gives you a little bit more of an ability to Customized or organized with the cs40. This one is a little bit more geared around. You doing your own organization inside the pack or having one larger back mesh pocket to stuff things into But again, you know for us, the concept here is there's already some packs out there like this. So what makes us unique to us? What makes us unique is, is the fact that we do have a phenomenal load transfer system. Suspension system. You know, we're not using a minimalist hit belt. We're using a very comfortable hip belt that's going to hug your hips and be able to carry that weight on your hips. We're using a frame that is tall enough to support that and the retiring all in with an Ultra Lite streamlined bag. That is attached to
[00:14:58] Brigham: it for say. Yeah, I think one of the, one of the other things that we had to to approach or face really as like, okay, well, It's going to end up being a lighter weight pack, but it's not going to end up being lighter weight because we sacrifice in terms of materials or anything that's going to decrease the durability of the pack. I mean that that was another important. Part of this development was. Well, if we're going to make the pack lighter probably will require more than just not having a center zipper and deleting two pockets. so, we actually Looked around quite extensively for the right materials. And so we we ended up landing on some very, very advanced. Materials that have incredible durability and strength to weight. We'll provide more details on this on this later. We don't want to Leave you fully satiated after the podcast. But
[00:16:03] Tayson: well, I think say, yeah we had to we had to really seek out
[00:16:08] Brigham: materials to make the pack that were above and beyond essentially what we already have in terms of strength, durability and weight. I think another thing just to note with this on a high level
[00:16:20] Tayson: concept still, Is that this pack was? you know, and we say this a lot with with price points that we don't design for price points, but we definitely leaned into that more with this pack knowing that the Target and user for high level concept of someone who Likely will be a through hiker, likely will be putting a lot of mileage on this pack that needs it to be both durable and comfortable. And lightweight and streamlined. And so, in order to accomplish all of those that means that this pack fundamentally with materials and things that we're going to use to accomplish those things is going to be, you know, on the higher end of price point for us to build as well as what that's going to equate to Customers. Now thanks our direct to Consumer business model. It's still very, very competitive where this price will land. but just know from a concept level, we did you know, Nothing was off the table. In terms of what we were willing to put into this pack because we are in our minds designing this pack for extremes for, I mean, Super focused on performance, and a good case study for that was in one of the best R&D trips that we got with this pack during design was last year on the unto Highline Trail. So for those of you that don't know, we will be releasing a documentary on this within about a month of this podcast coming out and you will get a lot of sneak peeking at the backpack. At that point because I believe all of us were wearing different versions. Now there was a couple different colors and things like that.
[00:17:57] Brigham: You'll see different like Prototype iterations. So it's not simply not the final version. So there's probably two or three different stages of development between all the packs that we're using Yeah,
[00:18:12] Tayson: yeah. And like I say, pay my mind to the color if you want to see close-ups or anything or any kind of sneak peeks like that, you can find that with that be in the membership sneak peek preview. Well,
[00:18:24] Derek: right now on our website, you can go to Pax just our packs collection in our regular website. And you can see a picture that now, you won't be able to see very much unless you are a little light member, as a little light member, you do get sneak peeks to upcoming products and the CS40 is one of those, you'll be able to see a little bit more as a member, but anyone can go and see at least a picture of what this pack is going to look like. And I'm pretty excited about it. You count this episode as our official announcement that the cs40 will be coming this year, know what is not on sale yet? We will be actually doing a pre-sale this year, but you should start looking at it. Start getting excited now because
[00:19:05] Tayson: we anticipate these to go pretty quickly. Yeah, we will be doing the presale and shipping them this year so it's not a pre-sell to ship next year, anything like that but that'll all be made public in you know, month or so from now. So definitely be on the look and if you do want to see that you can see that there. But in that you went to Highline trip going back to that. You're able to see the pack and you're able to see it in the field and whatnot, but that, that that trip in and of itself was a good example of what this pack would be designed for we were doing. I actually went back and looked at this, we were averaging 23 miles a day on our, on our days that we were doing full days. We did have to half days even though they really weren't half days. We still did like, 18 and 20 miles on our half days. We were pushing the envelope for sure but you know, very fast, very streamlined. And we're in really rugged country, like every time you put your pack down, it's getting set down on Sharp rocks, granite. You know, rough materials. We're we're above 10,000 feet so like and then going through big huge passes. And so it's very high strenuous, you know, high altitude. Which means that you've you've, you know, we can't be packing big heavy packs through this and covering this many miles or the exertion would you know, would likely not allow us to either cover those miles or put ourself at a much higher risk for overexerting and elevation sickness things like that. And so with this particular trip, we're all packing very streamlined. Know we're packing at about that 10 pound base weight. All of us, we are carrying a little bit of camera here, but but then we have to have five days worth of food. And for many of us, she'll learn in the documentary, we actually had six days worth of food. Just in case we needed to bleed over into the next day to finish out the trail. So in, in this case of a scenario, that's that's just a great example of what this is built for, this is a high exertion high performance trip. You need the durability to be there. You can't have your gear fail because you are in the middle of a Wilderness. And at best at The very best to get off this Trail, you know you're looking at a potential 12 mile pack out. If you Can get someone to come to a Trailhead and pick you up in the middle of nowhere. And so it's it's it's it's just higher risk per se, where you really need the packed perform. You really need to be streamlined and you really need to have your systems dialed and and it was a great is a great testing trip.
[00:21:35] Brigham: Yeah it was. Yeah for me it's like It's, it's hard to beat that trip for. For testing and feedback of a fairly developed. a stage meaning, like we'd gone through multiple iterations before then been on multiple trips. Lots of Miles prior to this, but at least, it was now to where one, I was confident that. The pack would be fine, you know, even though it's still a prototype, you know, different stages of development. For everybody's packs that it would be. It would be, it would be fine to do the job. But like, there's certain things that you don't feel after 10 miles that you feel after 20 and same thing. you know, on like, you know, the third consecutive day of doing 20 plus miles things affect the body differently and and the backpack. In my opinion is should be like considered part of the body. So, Yeah, great great testing grounds and and scenario there to get a lot of testing and good feedback. So
[00:22:44] Derek: you guys want to see a little bit more of, you know, different places that we've tested the CS40, like, tasting mentioned we've, we've had this in the works for a while. Now, you can actually go to our YouTube channel outdoor vitals and see some of our other past videos and different trips and, and start seeing some sneak peeks. If you haven't noticed, it already, it does pop up here and there on different trips and then in a few weeks or within the month, Watch out for that, you went to Highline documentary. There's going to be a lot of scenes that will show that pack very
[00:23:15] Tayson: clearly. So Brigham and I had already been testing and going through iterations at this point, but that trip for you Derek was probably your first time putting one on and really putting any miles on the trail, right? No,
[00:23:27] Derek: it wasn't my first time I'd had it on a few trips before that. Okay. But definitely, that was the, the longest trip that I had had the cs40 on.
[00:23:34] Brigham: Okay,
[00:23:35] Tayson: so in your mind, putting that pack on and covering miles. What were the things that jumped out to you? That were different per se from the Shadowlight.
[00:23:45] Derek: Well, one of the biggest things that, I mean, you notice right up front, is that, that mesh pocket. That's on the back. The shadow light has two deep stretch mesh pockets on either side of a center zip. That goes all the way down the backpack and that's good and bad. For some people on the shadow light depending on what your preferences and how you pack the CS40. Just has one very large, stretch mesh pocket and that was something that I really utilized and enjoyed on. You had to Highline this year, being able to put things in the back there that needed to dry or, you know, if there were layers that I need to grab throughout the day, you know, if it's maybe going to have some rain later, be great to just put my rain jacket back there. Whereas easily accessible. It. And and that's one thing that really stood out to me that was different. The other thing is the capacity. This pack is not designed to fit, you know, anything and everything, plus the kitchen sink. It's not a huge pack as far as capacity goes, but I did find that what we've been saying this whole time. Well, it, tasted and bringing them as mentioned, rang true. If you know your gear and you know what you need, and you've got your base weight, pretty dialed in And more than enough space for the trip. And so, on this particular trip throughout you into High Line, I was paying attention to that specifically and how I felt about just the amount of space I had And I did find that at this point where I am out with backpacking, I I did not need any more. I didn't need any more space even with six days worth of food in that pack along with my base weight
[00:25:20] Tayson: gear. So, What about, what about like we've, we've really gotten known been known for the Shadow Lights, really known for its Comfort Comfort on trail. Its load carry any difference is in how this one carried for you.
[00:25:36] Derek: Yeah, actually, I did enjoy the cs40, a little bit more. I love the shadowlight. It's a really comfortable pack. But the CS40, I think. Is a little bit. Next level for me, as far as comfort. I really enjoyed the, the hip belts on the cs40. One thing is, I'm not, I don't really have a huge. Or waist size and I was always feeling like I was maxing out other hit belts and this one I actually was able
[00:26:04] Tayson: to have. I think we should rephrase that to meaning out necessarily Max.
[00:26:11] Derek: That out. This one, I felt like we had enough versatility and adjustability in the hip belts and in the shoulder straps with the with the load lifters that I could really dial in the fit really, really well. And I think Just the way that the foam sat and a shape of the shoulder straps and general. I don't know if I could, I don't know right now, if I could really pin it down to anyone thing, but I do think that overall, I was pretty impressed with how comfortable.
[00:26:42] Tayson: The shoulder strap and hit the system worked together. Yeah, I I think for me, what I'll just add on to what what Derek just said right there is, we did a lot of prototypes with the shoulder straps harnesses. You know, I came back to bring him a lot of time. He was, I'm sure he was getting sick of me saying, you know, I can still feel a little bit here, a little bit there. And, I mean, we, we just micro adjusted this harness in to be incredibly incredibly comfortable. Um, but one of the things that I noticed right away, going from the shadow light to this one was the frame itself and how it rode and the frame is different. It's not the same as the Shadowlight and It gives you a different. feel per se and I really like the feel of this particular frame the way that it kind of molds to the body. The amount of give versus stiffness to me is is really dialed in and I really enjoy just the comfort of the stiffness of the frame and or the, or the, you know, comparing it to the shadow light, maybe the lack of stiffness. I don't know how to say that properly, but it just, it's got the right amount of give and I notice that the users will pick up almost right away is how well it load transfers, but isn't overly aggressive, that makes sense. Yeah, the bow the balance. Of the balance is different
[00:28:16] Brigham: on the on the low transfer and the frame stiffness. One thing also,
[00:28:22] Tayson: I just wanted to point out here. I'm going to take a side tangent for just a second. If you if you look at and if you listen to, at least, this is my experience and add in here. If I'm going off wrong, you feel like one of the main reasons people don't use a frame. Is to them, they cut out another six or eight Oz out of a backpack. You know, it's just unneeded weight is what a lot of them will chalk. It up to. I'm gonna put an argument in here for two different, two different things and our philosophy with with design. Number one, if you're using, IF or, if you're previous backpack, was using a frame, there was not actually giving you any load transfer. And it was just adding a little bit of rigidity to the backpack for say, Then yeah, that wasn't really helping you. Anyway, so you may as well pull the frame out in my opinion, like, if I'm using a backpack with say like an 18 inch frame, With my torso height, it's going to give me zero load lifting ability. So we're going to give me zero transfer of weight off of my shoulders down to my hips. And so all then it's going to do is really give me a little bit of rigidity in the back. Panel of the backpack. But to me, I feel like I can pack my pack. Well, enough, the build-in rigidity without that. So, for me, if I have an 18 inch frame in my backpack, yeah, I'm gonna toss it out. I'm not gonna use it, it's extra Extra five or six ounces or whatever it is in my backpack. So that's kind of myth. Number one, I would bust with with going to a frameless pack. Now I'm not going to say a frameless or off-limits or anything like that because like our fast pack does not have a frame, right? It's but it's a different design. But the other thing to me is is then that concept of like, oh, I saved five ounces with the frame. And I would argue that. A lot of frames are not that much weight. You might know this off the top of your head bringing
[00:30:12] Brigham: what is our shadow light so? Shadow light frame is it's basically like 3.7 Oz. and it's A very effective frame, I don't. I honestly I'm pretty ignorant to the weights of competitive frames out there. I would write you might as well just say it's probably middle of the road. There might be something out there that might be able to answer to have yours might be something that might be announced lighter.
[00:30:38] Tayson: So keep that in mind under four ounces for the shadow, light frame. And do we have a ballpark estimate on this Frame? It's lighter. Yes, so say it's lighter, I guess for now.
[00:30:50] Brigham: Yeah, it's lighter.
[00:30:52] Tayson: It's it's it's even lighter than the shadow light frame. So To say I'm guessing sub three ounces for was would be safe to say for now.
[00:31:01] Brigham: Yeah, if you were to Let's say. By the time you eat. Two Clif bars. You will
[00:31:14] Tayson: have accounted for the weight. That's a nice cry,
[00:31:17] Derek: kids Clif bars or full size.
[00:31:22] Brigham: You take? A sip of water. Out of your water bottle, you will have accounted for the weight of the frame.
[00:31:30] Tayson: so I just wanted to cover it, kind of talk about those two aspects of going frameless versus frame because in a backpack like this, for instance, The frame is adding. So, little weight. But then again the whole purpose of a frame is to load transfer. So keep those in mind as you are maybe backpack shopping or looking around, but that is really something that Rings true to us is the need for a frame and the need for it to work as a frame should work and really the lack of penalty per se in having a frame. Now, I guess get real nit pick either might be A few other weight costs. You do have to sow in a small Wedding Channel to have a frame. So there may be a few, added Oz, one or two out of Oz to have a webbing channel for that, but overall, it's it's a tiny sacrifice in in weight tiny. In order to load transfer and carry a backpack at a much, much more comfortable. Much more comfortable ability to carry that weight. And so again, for us when we're doing something such as you went to Highline Trail, look, we're starting with five days, worth of food. it's a significant amount of food that's 10 plus pounds, worth the food, typically Plus your gear, plus your water. So now you're now you're into the 20-pound range with with your starting weight on a trail and you're going to fill that specially when. I mean our first half day on trail, we started at almost noon still covered in 18 miles. So there's still a lot of time on feet, still a lot of mileage that you're covering, which for us, is again, why? It's just it's critical to have a frame in a stay really comfortable, but we are limiting the weight of those frames. And, and with the cs40, I love that it's not overly stiff but it is great at transferring that way down. It's just such a great balance, so, Yeah. Okay. Where else do I want to go? I mean any other backstory aspects? Oh testing. Or creating this pack
[00:33:33] Brigham: in terms of testing? You kind of you mentioned something that I I enjoy talking about like, when you mentioned the shoulder straps, like
[00:33:41] Tayson: yeah,
[00:33:42] Brigham: when we, when we prototype packs, It's like one of those, not so pleasant. But enjoyable challenges, like, for me, at least, for example. Essentially. Tayson was the only one that persistently had like slight reservations about the shoulder strap curvature. So I never had any issues with the shoulder strap. I don't know about Derek, if you did or not, there was maybe, maybe Tyler did with one iteration. But then like, After the next iteration and the next iteration. essentially, it was really only tasting so kind of like to say within the office guys that had extensive use of the pack. It was like one out of the five people was having an issue. Well, that's an interesting challenge, because You're dealing with something that works for most people already, and if you're changing something, you can't change it in a way that now makes it not work for any of those other people. But now, but also works for the person that's having some difficulties with it. So, um yeah, those are that's like that's what goes into it in terms of. Minor tweaks, you have to make incremental changes so that you don't go too far one way or the other. But, you know, that was, that's kind of one little bit of background on some of the testing and design is that there was like Yeah, there was a lot of effort, put into making sure the shoulder straps were comfortable for. You know, everybody that was able to test it versus, you know, everybody except one. So that that's really reassuring, you know, putting a product out there that that there wasn't really any reservations between between anybody that tested it. So,
[00:35:37] Derek: so I'll just want to confirm that Tayson. So, did you ever become satisfied? Yes, yes.
[00:35:44] Tayson: So I think that's the, that's the whole point of kind of where frequent was taking that too, is that we were able to do these micro adjustments iteration after iteration after iteration To fix it. So that knot out of 5, people were comfortable with the harness, and I'm not saying I was uncomfortable. I found it as comfortable as anyone else's backpacks, but, you know, wanting this to be a premium top of the charts carrying pack, you know, I'm saying, I'm getting a little bit of discomfort here after X amount of miles. you know, we were able to do these micro adjustments iteration after iteration after iteration to the point that it did take care of those issues for me and and eliminate those now that we've instead of four out of five that are comfortable with the pack were five out of five, you know, and And that's just the people that spent extensive miles with the pack per se. But yeah so it did it did solve it for me in and it was no easy task like Brigham said because you got it you got a micro adjust it in a way that that helps the fifth person but doesn't hurt the poor people before it. So I think that's why I've got a closet full of CS40 prototypes at my house and scattered around the office because we do have to go through a lot of iterations. I think it's very easy for a company to say, we've built the pack pack. We roughly know how to do this. We can kind of take previous artwork from this backpack, and apply it to this backpack and just roll with it and make the cut the design process shorter. But I would say that's something we definitely did. Not do with this backpack. It is a full redesign. It has a different back panel. Does not have a removable back panel. There's another little sneak peek. I guess I'll give for you. And so it is, it is not using prior artwork, save this of the Shadow light which means that we were doing a full redesign and we're not just quickly tossing this through a design platform. You know, in our minds, we would have wanted to release this backpack, you know, last year. But that's not how our timelines work. We don't have say retail stores saying, hey, we need this next year's model. Now, on the specific date For us as work. That way the backpack is ready when the backpack is ready, and it's ready now. So it did take us a lot iterations. It took a lot of fine tuning but but Product is is really exciting. So so by now, I'm sure you've all
[00:38:11] Derek: noticed we've been pretty Intentful about, I don't know. It was in full word intentional intentional. There we go. About not, not releasing too much information. There's a reason for that, so Like we mentioned before the cs40 is not available yet. It will be soon. So, if you're at all, interested in learning more about this, keep your eye out over the next few weeks. We will have another podcast go out. That does dive really deep into the materials, the design, everything that you might want to know about the cs40 backpack. So make sure you keep your eye out for that. Don't get disheartened because we haven't, you know, answered all your questions just yet. We will. I promise we will
[00:38:58] Tayson: and you will answer some of your own questions. When you watch some of these videos, we didn't specifically say what the fabric is, but I can almost guarantee that some of you will start calling it out when you see it too. On some of the videos coming out videos that are already out or on the sneak peek
[00:39:13] Derek: page. Absolutely. So make sure you keep your eye out, like I said, both for the Highline video that will come out really soon. And then again in a number of weeks for another podcast episode that will go into all the details. In the meantime, go to the website, check it out, you can see a picture of the very least of the cs40, what it looks like and and get excited for it. It will go on pre-sale soon and it will also be shipping within This year. So before the fall.
[00:39:42] Brigham: Yeah, I think we can. Give them a. Up. We can upgrade the Hope just a little bit more. So I anticipate like, I think it's reasonable to expect the pre-sale to go on in May and it's not a long delivery time. So don't be thinking like, oh maybe Christmas now it'll probably be late summer, you know, two, three months after the pre-sale starts. Should be getting backpacks on your doorstep.
[00:40:13] Derek: So we did, we did mention a giveaway at the beginning of the podcast as well,
[00:40:17] Tayson: but I want to ask him one last thing, okay? Before we get to that related to design in the amount of time and effort into this, How many different shoulder strap? Cuts and structures. Do you think you put into this pack? Because there was times when you design, you design one and prototype it, and it would come with two different harnesses. You know, this prototype would have this harness, this person that would have this harness To me. I feel like I was almost 10 different probably Ernest. There's
[00:40:47] Brigham: probably at least 10 if you were to like if you were to just take 10 of the backpacks and line them up and stand about ten feet away, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference but if you were to take like my Like my design files and overlay. Each strap over itself or and then put that on the the back panel file. Then you would you would see like these little like these little tweaks of angles curvature, where a curvature starts or ends where the sewing angle goes into the back panel. It
[00:41:26] Tayson: how close or how wide they sew into the back panel?
[00:41:29] Brigham: Yeah so yeah there's there's at least 10
[00:41:33] Tayson: yeah, I think that that just, I just wanted to highlight that before we get into this giveaway because there is just so much That we prioritize focusing on with this pack, with, with all of our products here because to Us, backpack is a extremely pivotal part of your system. I mean, it's kind of like the core piece of a system, you're wearing it for, you know, eight to ten hours a day it times loaded with
[00:41:59] Derek: weight in it. It can be the whole activity is named. After that one piece of backing,
[00:42:05] Tayson: that's what I start calling, campers sleeping baggers. Um, no. I mean it is it's a core piece and and I putting extra time and energy and attention into a backpack. Pays big dividends in our minds in Comfort. And what it delivers, what it offers, your happiness on trail, what you're willing to do, right? I mean, think about the people, that only hike And I'm not saying this is bad or anything. I'm just saying, I'll say you're someone who's only hiking 10 miles a day. You know, or she's me five miles a day, like so much of that can be tracked down to comfort and why you wouldn't be hiked farther? And I can think back to when I was a kid. When I was in Boy, Scouts. I literally remember this one time. That I was all I had to do was hiked about a half of a mile from a car, to a campsite with my backpack on and this backpack, like it wasn't a backpacking trip. I was literally just carrying my stuff to the campground that you couldn't drive to, and I had a frame backpack and it was loaded. I mean, don't get me wrong, it was loaded, and there was stuff hanging off every side. That was one of the most painful, half miles of walking I've ever experienced in my entire life. Remember, my shoulders were just getting cut into, they're extremely painful to hit Bell was, was not fitting me very well. The frame was actually poking in to me. I mean, it was, it was one of the most uncomfortable experience I've ever had in my life and I only had to go half of a mile and so, you know, the flip flop side of that is to have a frame and a backpack that molds. So well to your body that it feels like and it's an extension of your body and that was an is the goal for any of our backpacks and especially is we're getting closer to perfection. With the cs40. And the harness, the hip belt structure, you know, the frame, all of that. In trying to encapsulate this perfect concept of feeling like this is a extension of your body, not an appendage of your body. That's, that's not comfortable, that's jabbing into you painful and that's why we go through 10 harnesses in a single product testing. Yeah, that's actually something I've been thinking about during this
[00:44:20] Brigham: podcast is, you know, kind of like why why? Why go through all of this. of course, we want you to be comfortable, but if you think about kind of the opposite of comfortable, it's uncomfortable and In terms of the the scale of uncomfortable, there's there's discomfort and then on the other side, there's pain. That entire range from discomfort to pain. It's all fatiguing on some scale and and that's literal that that is that is an energy consumption. Factor. So, being having discomfort puts a more energy tax on your body. And being in pain. Puts an exponentially, higher energy tax on your body. And a great example of this is last year when we did the rent to rent a rim. That day one I I hurt my knee, like nine miles into a 38 mile day. and that's like, So what that meant was me moving along at like a snail's pace. I mean, I finished that day. Six hours later than than I would have. Then most other people did. so if I'm not really physically exerting myself because I'm moving so slow, essentially I was like my heart rate was hardly anything but at the end of the day, I felt like absolutely smoked. I mean I was so So exhausted. And that it was from the like extreme pain that I was like going through with each and every step, every time I had to lift that left leg up step over like a two inch tall Rock. Like it was excruciating and that pain. Was like way more fatiguing than had. I just been running the whole time. And that was very noticeable.
[00:46:21] Tayson: It's going to alter your gate. How you step? Which then impacts every other muscle in your body and every other fatigue in your body?
[00:46:27] Brigham: Yeah,
[00:46:28] Tayson: I don't know if you guys have ever backpacked even where you have to, like, hold your backpack up with your hands or like push forward the straps, or like that's all extra energy in expenditure that Stacks up over a, in this case, a 38 mile day. Yeah, but it all comes at a cost, you know, any discomfort, any discomfort can become a pain, but any discomfort or pain can also be fatiguing as well, and cost your trip in some way, shape, or form. So, it is critical. We do think it's, that's why we put so much attention into the designs and the
[00:47:00] Derek: focus on a backpack, which as sort of a little bit of a bonus while we're on that topic. We have mentioned our Fastback that we are also working on currently. No, it's not released yet either, but during that fast backing trip through the Grand Canyon, we did film that and created another documentary, which is currently Available for you to watch. So if you haven't watched already you can go find that on YouTube. It's called red room and you can see what I'm talking about. You can kind of see What happened to Brigham and other members of the team and kind of the effects that had on the overall Adventure. So make sure you go and check that out and get a sneak peek at some of the prototypes of
[00:47:37] Tayson: that. Yeah. Yeah, if you're someone who totally disagreed with my thoughts on a frame versus unframed, then stick around for the fast pack. Okay, let's go ahead and talk about the giveaway. So it's been a long time coming. Since we've done a giveaway on the podcast, and since we've asked you guys to do reviews for a giveaway, so that this is this is what we're doing. We're doing, we're going to give you a cs40. One of the most expensive pieces that we will we will have on the website when we do release the price, you'll be able to win this. You'll be able to get it shipped out a little bit ahead of everyone else. When these are released. if you go and write a review for the podcast, so go into whatever platform you use, whether that ITunes or Spotify or wherever you're platform of choice. Write a review. We're not, we're not saying, right? It's a five-star review. Write us an honest review. Um, and you guys will be entered into the giveaway for a cs40. First, we'll call the first one out. The first cs40 out of out of our Vital. So if you guys want to win a cs40 or maybe you could even twist Eric's arm and get store credit if you if you absolutely love the shadow light that you've already got, you know, if you want to win that, go write us a review. We will leave this open. So you'll be able to write the review and tell we release the pre-sell, which is going to be likely in about a month from the time of this going live. So, so you're not going
[00:49:09] Derek: to want to wait long. The this giveaway window isn't going to be open for like Jason said, more than a month by the time you hear this podcast, maybe even less. So go ahead. Leave us a review on the podcast and you'll automatically be in.
[00:49:21] Tayson: If you want to be safe, get it done in April. That's what I would say. Make sure you write through the review in April, so, okay? There you have it. If you want to win a CS40, go leave us a review on the podcast again. This is the level which Your Life podcast. And we will be extremely appreciative of that and hopefully you'll be the winner. So okay, any other last comments on anything related to Backstory or general concepts of the cs40 backpack.
[00:49:47] Derek: We're sorry for not giving you details, but we will promise.
[00:49:52] Tayson: It's just part of a fun and games, you guys will jump up some of the details yourself. I'm excited to hear just read some of the comments on what you guys think. In fact, with that if you didn't know, this is a, we do publish these podcasts on YouTube. So if you do want to jump over to YouTube, you'll be able to leave a comment on that video. So if you want to maybe jump over there and leave some comments on what you think is coming, I'll be interested to read the comments there. If you've got any direct questions that you want to reach out to us for, you can email us at the little ultralight podcast@gmail.com. You can go to outer vitals website and open up a chat where you can talk to us there and any questions like that, we will document either reply back to you or answer on a future podcast. So please reach out with any questions. We're going to talk about leaving reviews. So go get that done. Get entered into the giveaway. Make sure you are subscribed and we'll see you guys on a future episode.
