[00:00:00] Tayson: Everybody. Welcome to the live ultralight podcast powered by outdoor vitals. Today. In this episode I have a treat for you. For those of you that are have been following Along on some of these podcasts are have been interviewing fkt record holders, where we've been interviewing, guys, just going out and doing these massive big, big days in the mountains. Well, we have another one for you. I've brought back on for the first time. I believe in the live ultralight podcast, history. A guest for the second time. I brought back a really and Sanchez onto the podcast today. And the reason for that is because he just recently finished the Barkley marathons. Now this is his first attempt which which typically this doesn't happen, but he is his first attempt of it and he actually completed the race. So absolutely phenomenal. He's probably one of four or five people that have ever been able to accomplish that in the history of the race since it's been. And I want to give you a few details on the race here because it's truly truly remarkable. And there's so much to take away from this. So the Barkley Marathon is a race that happens at Frozen head State Park in Tennessee. Laiza is kind of known as the one who started this, but there was a couple of people, and it really inspired by an assassin of Martin Luther King, who escaped to prison there and was trying to escape in these Tennessee woods and mountains. And he made it eight-day or he made it. I can't remember how many days but he only made it eight miles and and Last, I think said to himself. Well, geez, I could go way farther than that, right? And so, then he got this idea to create on create this crazy race and and it's it's super super unique. So the race is five different or five Loops of this course, where you are self-navigating to books that are on a trail 13, different books. And every time you do a loop, you have to pull out a page number. Out of the book at the 13th books and then you're doing this Loop over. And over five times, it's estimated to be about 130 miles and 63,000 feet of elevation gain and descent. Just to wrap your head around that, how much that is rim to rim to rim on the Grand. Canyon, I believe was about 12,000 feet of elevation gain in descent so that would be like going rim to room to rim cheese. I'm terrible math here five times over five times in One race. It's astronomical the amount. I mean I think I covered this in the podcast but even compared to the Hard Rock 100 which is probably one of the toughest 100-mile races in the world. It's not the toughest. Like the second toughest that has 33,000 feet of elevation gain and descent. Yes, you are at elevation which is a completely different ballgame in so many ways but just the sheer volume of that is absolutely incredible. So this race is incredibly difficult for physically. You are navigating with a mapping Compass which is incredibly difficult, you're navigating at night in the daytime, all hours of the day. You've got time limits. If you, if you break basically 12 hours on a loop or the accumulation thereof you, you get pulled out of the race, so you don't get to start the next Loop. So you're always racing against the clock, just a phenomenal race. Completely different style. It's it's one of the hardest races in the world. In fact, the last six years, no one completed the race. So it's it's absolutely wild race and there's there's lots more. You can find out there. There's a cool documentary. I believe called the Race that eats its young I think is the name of it so you can find that out there to watch it. It's really, really interesting, but all that being said, a alien. Sanchez just completed this race. He did have the fastest time this year at 58 hours and 23 minutes. He Demands a race cutoff is going to be at 60 hours. So he's the first finisher of three this year but he did not have that much of a buffer time. I believe the last guy was finishing within minutes of the cutoff time. So incredibly difficult, incredibly great conversation is so fun to hear the story of Aurélien’s, experience to learn a little bit about some of his training. Some things, his big takeaways from this event and his six-year journey to get to the Barclay and be able to complete it. So you guys are in for a treat. Thanks again to a railing for coming on, and I'll go ahead and roll that podcast or that interview right now. All right, or alien, super excited to have you back on the podcast. I believe you're the first repeat interviewee. We've had on the podcast. But for good reason, as you've just finished the Barkley, marathons, second non-american to ever finish the Barkley's. And and he had, I guess the fastest time I guess they don't really place. You is like first second third or or anything like that. One comes to the Barkleys but you did have the Fastest time this year. So congratulations and thanks for coming back on the podcast. Thank you, thank you.
[00:05:00] Aurélien: Thank you for having me. Yeah.
[00:05:09] Tayson: Yeah, I mean when we when I interviewed you the last time you had you'd made a few comments that you're interested in the Barkley marathons and that it was something that was kind of top of mind for you and and I think maybe even at that time you knew you were in to the Barkley Marathon. But when did you first hear about the Barclays? And what, what intrigued you, what was, what was the poll? I mean, you come from. I mean really, I guess your background is kind of just endurance, but but really like, you know, you had the fkt of the, John Muir you've, you've had some of these type of accolades and the Barclays is is kind of a it's a different animal where You've got Ultra Runners that are just Ultra Runners entering it and then you've got guys like you that are more fkt guys. So I mean, when did you first hear about this? And why, why did it pull you in?
[00:05:58] Aurélien: There are some, if you look at the background from all the finishers at the Barkley, I mean, most of them, at least they do a lot of FKS, long hikes breaking trying to break records hiking records, like the genre trade, for example, but also the Appalachian Trail, the Pacific Crest Trail and such long hikes like this. And most of the many Barkley features has this background and this is what I wanted to find myself or so. When I first heard about the Barkley was 2012, but I was not really into hiking and you try running at this time, but when I first decided to get into Barkley or to try to get into Barkley was 2017, after all highs, I was discovering that I could learn learn about myself by training and and just pushing my limits. And I want you to do Barkley to learn about myself again. So, then I analyzed the finishers and I saw that many of them were doing skts long, highs and fast. Like the genre trade and this is how I started. So my first project was actually the German trade trying to break the records from from Andrew Bennett. And I was believing, these will get me to the Barkley in 2017, but I failed at my first attempt and this is how I started my start was okay. How should I get in? How can I get in to the Barkley? And what should I do? And I saw that the finishers were doing skts. So it's part of the, of the backbone I would say skts are searched sufficient. You have to go through mountain and the Barkley is about that is you have to be self-sufficient and and it's a lot of time being. So he made sense to me.
[00:07:39] Tayson: Yeah. I mean so you have the accolades of setting at John Muir fkt which by the way I had to do some math on that was nearly 76 hours. So you're 58 hours in the Barkley marathons. I mean that must have been nice, right? And I want to get into sleep later and just hear if you did, if you did sleep, but I mean, other than that John Muir, have you run, 100 mile races, have you done multiple 100 mile efforts, or or was really like the John Muir. The only time that you trained or hiked, or whatever past 100 miles,
[00:08:18] Aurélien: That was my first project so I was playing a lot of soccer before so I was into the sport for a long time. I was I was an active person but I was not doing really a challenge and I never did a marathon or things like this. I was not really A standard Runner. Let's say, but I was a long-distance hiker. I love that. So yeah, my first project was 220 miles which was a John Muir but I didn't see that. As I mean yes, it was a big step sorry but to me it was a question of. I love that. I just love hiking for a long time, so I didn't want to do a 50 miler. An 80, Miler, 100, Miler, or 150, Miler. I just wanted to do that for three days and learn about myself. And eventually I say, at the first time because of many, many topics, my physical calendars, my mentors, my my gear was not ready. My new tuition was not ready. My sleep strategy was not ready, but he was about it. So now, I did not do a marathon, but this is just because I don't like the effort of the marathon. It's all about running on flat terrain. I just like, long distance hiking, which is why it makes sense for me to just start big right at the beginning.
[00:09:35] Tayson: so, since you did the John Muir, have you gone on to do other Hundred Mile efforts
[00:09:41] Aurélien: Now, yes I did a quite a lot. I did a lot of fkd attempt which were not really successful. I tried the Tahoe Rim Trail twice and I fail it twice. Then I did. Yeah, I did the bar demerath, it's 100 mile. It's not an official event as well. It's a Barkley type race in the in California, I did that. Then when I went back to France I did a Pyrenees Crossing which was about 12 days. It's not an official race but it's the same thing. It was about 500 fifty miles which was pretty long. And then, yeah, I did. So I did some racing in France. I did the diagonal Dew in rare, young Ireland. It's 100 miles last year. I've done a lot of racing. I mean, a lot, quite some racing, and also a lot of Trail offers even not official, even let's say that's from 2017.
[00:10:39] Tayson: So was it the Pyrenees Crossing you said was was a 500 Miles event?
[00:10:44] Aurélien: Yes. Correct, the Pyrenees protein was, 550 minus. I think something like that and it was it was such a big adventure for me as well. Bigger than the John will try was 12 days out on the trail. So it was it was epic for me. I had a very low moments and high moments as well.
[00:11:03] Tayson: yeah, that's So, did you finish the 550 miles then?
[00:11:08] Aurélien: I did finish. I actually finished in. I did the fkt and official fkt self-sufficient, it was not official because people went to see me on the train. I had family and friends that went to see me, but I was totally self-sufficient because I wanted to have my own adventure and to be, yeah, to do all of that by myself, but it was not official because of what I just said, why? Yes, I finished, I actually improved the previous record, which was supported. But at this time, there were also somebody else who broke who broke the record at the same time. So I didn't break the record officially. But yeah, I actually did my, my adventure which was the main goal was to do that in about 12 days. And that's what I did. But it was it was an adventure. I had a lot of pain, physically and mentally and and it was good to share. So with the, with my people around me, that's aware to see what I was able to do here.
[00:12:08] Tayson: Oh yeah. Yeah, that's that's incredible. So you've got a lot of experience in in. I mean some really long race scenarios so I mean that that has to play into the application process, right? Because getting into the Barclays is pretty competitive. Yeah I'm not mistaken, they take 40 races a year correct
[00:12:28] Aurélien: for the runners and parts of the 40 are 20. 20 people who did it already and 20 newcomer let's say
[00:12:36] Tayson: Okay. Okay. Gotcha. That was kind of my next question. That's so it's really competitive to get in. And so do you, I mean, what is that, what does that look like? Are you trying to kind of prove your worth that you can get in? Are you? I mean, I know that there's there's some kind of secrecy to the application process, right as well. But I mean, what are you doing to to get in is there? I mean, yeah, I mean guess walk us through that process. Just a little bit of what you can share.
[00:13:03] Aurélien: Yeah. So just to stay high level. As you said, we cannot charge much about the entry process. Everyone has to figure out themselves if they want to get in but you basically have to answer the question, why should I be allowed to run the Barkley and you have to explain yourself and you have to to tell your story whatever you you need to tell my story was the education. It's been six years. I've been working towards this specific goal. I'm not in Foreigner doing a lot of racing I just do everything on this specific purpose, getting into the Barclays on my message was dedication. Since the first day patients that, I would wait for my turn to come because I know many people want to do the Barclays. So I want to just wait for my turn to come and and yeah, that was my message. Then showing all the experience that I've done across the years and why I did them because of what I just said, the cell, sufficient attack aspect. And I think at some point I didn't believe to get in To this year because I was, I knew many people wanted to get in and I was thinking, I was, it was too difficult but in the end, I think last the market director and Creator so that I was really dedicated for that and that I deserved finally my spot because of all the experience I did, but this was my message that it was my really my main goal since the beginning.
[00:14:29] Tayson: Yeah. Well, it's pretty remarkable that. Your first attempt you get in and complete the Barkley Marathon, right? You're one of a 15 Runners. I believe that have ever completed this in a 36 year history. So let's talk. Just a second about Training. I mean, I know there's so many variables, so many unknowns to the specific race. And so, I mean, what did, what did an average week look, like training wise to you, are you running a lot of miles? Are you, you know, training specific for nutrition or sleep deprivation, or maybe just walk us really quick through what a week. Looks like training for this event.
[00:15:09] Aurélien: Yeah. So did you go training is one part of it and on parts so you weak. But to say average let's say I was running about 100 miles a week. I think sometimes 13 mice, sometimes 17, mice depends, both 20 hours of training greens a week already, sometimes was 15 sometimes plus 30 hours so it depends and almost focusing mostly my training on elevation game doing a lot of repeats on the montane or doing a lot of fishing game, big volume and
[00:15:43] Tayson: we've got to talk about that for just a second this race. This race has 63 in estimated. 63,000 feet of elevation gain and descent to me personally. Like I think that most people think that one of the most challenging races there is, is the Hard Rock, 100 in Colorado. I mean, it's high elevation, which is different, right? This is more low elevation, but that race ended up itself in 100 miles has 33,000 feet of elevation gain in the sense. So that's that's an average of 320 feet per mile of climbing whereas this race, according to my estimates has 485 feet climbed per mile, so that's It's got to be one of the the most steep. Races for, you know, distance for in ratio to the distance, right? I mean that City to, 63,000 feet of estimated elevation climb so we don't have actuals on the street. It's estimated to be 130 miles and 63,000 feet, but That. Like like to me that like I don't even care that it's 130 miles. I only care that it's 6300 feet of elevation because that's so much more challenging than just 130 miles. I mean, this guy's out there that could run 130 mi in in daylight hours, right? From start of the day to the end of the day. They could probably finish that. Yeah, Verses 63,000 feet of elevation climb. That's, that's a totally different animal. So I mean that to me is Got to be. I don't know. Is that Priority One? I mean, is that the hardest aspect of this do you think over To me from the outside on paper that seems like one of the most challenging things because yes there's navigation. Yes. There's there's the duration and stuff but like from a physical standpoint that's got to be like probably to me Priority One I guess.
[00:17:39] Aurélien: Yeah, it is um, it will be actually more priority to my point of view because what you don't say in this description which was quite accurate, is a Terrain is very steep because it's Australian. Most of the way and it's not on training, which is why people and those are races and zealth trading is, he's quite challenging because every food you put on the floor, you have to be careful to not twist your income and to be fast enough. Let's say so it's not ready to rain which is quite challenging because we're not used to that, we use to run on Traders. So, I think this will be the first aspect to train on Australia, terrain, which is what I did in the past several months. And and on top of that, because this is off Trail, it's a lot of climbing and exactly what you said, my training was focusing on the, on the climbing. And this was the main numbers. I was looking at and yeah, you see off Trail, you cannot really put a number in front of it. It's difficult. But as you said climbing, you can put a number and this was my main goal. Every week in average I was doing about 3,000 know. Yeah, 30,000 feet of elevation climbing up and down. I mean up three stars 30,000 and down. 30,000, that was my kind of average and I was talking at ya. 34,000 feet per week on my maximum and yeah it's a lot of coming and you have to, you have to do that to be familiar with with it during race time. Well, and I remember from the last time we talked
[00:19:16] Tayson: you, one of the things that was really fascinating is that you would go to the Grand Canyon and Hiking like four or five times in a weekend. And so for those either familiar with the Grand Canyon this what really is just saying is that would be like, the equivalent of doing the Grand Canyon eight times in a week, bottom to top, you know that Is I mean that's a lot of time, I mean, just just like you said that's like 20 hours or more per week of just running just exercising but obviously that's also a lot of speed to be able to do that. Absolutely, absolutely incredible. Okay. So you're so training wise, you're doing a ton of Miles, you're doing a ton of elevation climbing what about nutrition and and sleep. Yeah.
[00:20:03] Aurélien: So This topic or is difficult to say, you don't train much on that, but it's across the years and all the experience that you do and the nutrition aspect, let's say, is of food that you try during your training or your and your racing, and it's not an easy topic and everyone has its own nutrition. There is not a single rule and a single nutrition to follow on my side. I was eating cheeseburgers, for example, during the Barkley which worked great for me and maybe people are surprised about that. But it's actually a great meal to eat and that's really dependent on people and depending on your background, on your racing and you have to experiment and for example, during my first John Maher Trail attempt. I was bringing with me, Marco dextrin powder. That was not able to mix into my class very well. So I was not able to drink and to eat and it was a failure.
[00:20:58] Tayson: So you have to train for that. Why? Why in the world would you say that? Cheeseburger is a great meal on track? Everyone just drink sugar, like everyone is doing what you're saying, sugar, you got like the legendary Courtney dauwalter, just like eating Skittles and candy. And for you, it's cheeseburgers
[00:21:16] Aurélien: actually eating pizza, which is a similar to, which is burgers. Are very nice because it's you have protein inside and protein is important for Muscle Recovery. Um, and it's fat as well. And you cannot really intake. You cannot have enough calorie intake compared to what you burn compared to the curry you burn. So you have to eat as fat as as much as fat as possible in order to to have a lot of calories. Let's say, because it's a long event, it's long raised. And despite that even if you eat very fatty meals like this, you don't eat enough because your your body is burning much more. So you have to get the maximum calorie. You can there is, for example, a great Adventurer which is called Mike horn. When you goes to Northern countries in Alaska, for example, he drink directly oil to feed himself, and this is for this reason because it's, it's very fast, a lot of calories and cheeseburgers are that fought a lot of calories. And there is also protein for recovery, so it's actually a good.
[00:22:25] Tayson: Yeah. It does, it does make a lot of sense. There's like a good variety of proteins carbs fats in that, but it just doesn't something you typically hear I just eating during the race but so, Okay, so let's let's I guess dive into to the race now just a little bit. The race starts at a random time. You have like a window of I believe 12 hours to To be prepared. It could start in the middle of the night. Start in the morning. What time of day did this this event start? And what was like that first Loop like?
[00:23:05] Aurélien: Yeah. So as you said, we don't know the race start, there's a time where we have to sleep as we do, as we can in the van and wait for the cons to be blown, which is one hour before the start, it was blown. The ones was blown at 9 a.m. just before 9 a.m. So we started that 10 a.m. so it was Daylight meaning of the day. So we know we're going to have. We were, we were gonna have a first Loop by daylight was the first movies about 10 hours maximum, for me, at least he was going to be. That was my goal. So I know that by Yeah, by what was 8 p.m. by 8 p.m. I would be done. So that was the first Loop. And is there cut off time for every single Loop? Yes, correct, its 12 hours. If you want to do five Loops, it's 12 hours that you accumulate every time it's well for the first loop, it's 24 for the second Loop, 30648 for 4 and 16 for 5 obviously, so you're not planning a lot of margin even on your very first
[00:24:06] Tayson: Loop. You're saying 10 hours which gives you two hours of buffer, two hours of if I get lost if I have issues. So I mean that's really interesting. it's I guess it's interesting too that I would think that some of these Ultra Runners are thinking. It's only 20 miles, I can run that very quickly, but it seems like you're approach to that was was maybe. Conservative like, like I could see people thinking that even planning on a 10-hour Loop would be conservative in some ways. So let's probably very wise going into it because I imagine what reaches up and gets. A lot of people is overestimating their abilities on this race.
[00:24:46] Aurélien: Yeah, yeah, some it's not really 10 hours. It was not written hours for me. It was nine hours. 30. Exactly the goal for the first group, maximum nine hours, 30 and you have to think about the whole thing, you know, it's 10 hours at the beginning, but once you do 10 hours, which is a lot already, there is still 50 hours remaining into your race. So you just did only one fifth of the race and you have still four Loops to do. So you really have to keep to stay in shape after this for this first Loop. Otherwise you're gonna get into trouble very soon. So that was my goal. I wanted to be conservative but as you said I want you to have enough margin. And this question is very difficult for everyone. This is why everyone at the beginning is moving fast. As the front group, the first group, they really want to to kill. These are really want to have as much margin as a, as a can because we never know, as you said, we can be lost, but at the same time, we want to be conservative because this is only the beginning. So it's a difficult question to answer. I was relying on the comment. Which is my my best friend and my mentor for this Barkley. He did it four times. Now, he did three times before this year and we were training a lot together in the Pyrenees and, you know, pretty well what should be done on the first Loop? And we said about nine hours and I was nine hours, 13 to have enough margin and to be enough conservative. And this is actually what we've done, we nail the first Loop together. We did eight hours for 45, I think faster than what we wanted, but in a conservative base. So the first group was perfect and I think this is why my race and was was good. Because this first group was done in a perfect Manner and perfect pace
[00:26:32] Tayson: So when you take off from the gate, are you all running the same direction on the loop? Does that mean that 40 Runners are kind of? just following each other, especially on these first few Loops against the kind of running is a pack almost
[00:26:46] Aurélien: Yeah, exactly. So you have books around the loop that we didn't mention books are serving us checkpoints during the race. You have certain books and you have a big number at every Loop, maybe number at the first group was 77. So you have to tear out the page 77 on my case at every book, which service are us checkpoints, okay?
[00:27:09] Tayson: Here. How many books are on a loop 13? 13 books. Wow, yeah okay, yeah. So that is like a lot of wayfinding then because it's not just like, okay, get to one book or three books. It's like you've got to find 13 books. Yeah. Okay, I didn't I didn't realize that.
[00:27:27] Aurélien: Yeah, no, there's many books and and yeah, and she's the first book. And the second book, everyone is following each other, or almost, let's say you have a pack of 2025 percent, which is a lot and us as soon as you reach the third book, then you start to have groups for a groups. And this is what I did. We had a group of three. I was with yum and another person Luca who join us, but then there were the first group. So, I think the first three four people are the second group. Again, three, four people, and then we were behind. So yeah, depending on the base but it's after several books that you find yourself in to into into some more group.
[00:28:10] Tayson: So you're so like you did that first Loop, executed it perfectly.
[00:28:13] Aurélien: Yeah,
[00:28:14] Tayson: you get out there, you start Loop. Number Two, You go after Loop Number Two right away. Do you take a any kind of a mandatory break? Or is it just as much time as you want to take as a break you take? Because you write, you're looping back to the same point every time to the same Central Hub, which is part of one of the coolest Parts about this race is just how minimalist the race organizers. Are, you know, a lot of races, you have big checkpoints, you got tons of volunteers, you got a ton of people on the ground helping you whereas at this race from what I can see, there's very few volunteers. There's there's very low costs. I mean the cost to enter is that is a pack of smokes, if I'm not mistaken. It's just it's all very very Interesting, the way that they've designed this, but so when you loop back in after the first Loop, what how much time are you there? How much time did you plan
[00:29:10] Aurélien: to be there? Yeah, so you should one once you're in your Loop. It's about, yeah. As I said 9 hour and three, four, five are about 12 hours, you're really sets. So you have to deal with everything we have food and you'll hear really when you're outcome and you have to be careful about not leave too fast but at the same time you don't want to leave to take too long break because the time is that he's taking and you only 60 hours. So maybe After the first Loop, and by the keyword ideas was to to change my socks. My shoes, my my t-shirts to eat a lot because I was at camp and I had all my food, so to eat a lot to bring more food with me, water New Gear. So it was about that. I didn't take time to rest, or to sleep or anything because it was just the first book, but I did really take time to to change my my clothes and to eat a lot and drink a lot as well. And once I did that, I, I started again my second loop as soon as possible. And it was about 10 minutes which was the maximum. I was allowing me for this first transition. That's extremely fast
[00:30:26] Tayson: for those that have run an ultramarathon I think you'll realize how fast 10 minutes goes right. I mean it's so fast. I have been out on the trail for hours and hours so yeah, okay, so that's really fascinating. So you you're hitting the trail. You've got a pretty good buffer and your your heading out with Dion and Lucas still with you or no.
[00:30:49] Aurélien: No, no. You guys. Not with us anymore. I think it's taking a longer break. I think you throw down actually before the end of the first book, so he was not with us anymore. So I was with you and we started in Reverse this time. So you changed the sense of the loop. Sometimes you go clockwise. Sometimes you go counter clockwise. So we had the first Loop clockwise which is the easy Direction. Let's say in terms of an obligation, but the second Loop this year was counterclockwise. So we basically went back from where we came from and we were about our service with Guillen and at this time, it was getting to be night time. So we had to put our headlamps on at the transition and we had the second Loop by night.
[00:31:30] Tayson: So, are you repeating the same Loop? Going back to the same Book locations and just picking a different page number.
[00:31:36] Aurélien: Exactly. So, I think my page was 99 as the assignment's, the second Loop instead of 77 and basically you go to the same books. So the books and number 13, the last one from the first group, was becoming the first one on the reverse Direction and basically you go through the same books again. But when you're approaching the books, it all looks different because your approaching them in a different direction. And especially this one was by night and not by day anytime. So we did a few mistakes with geometry at the beginning about 15 minutes mistakes. I think. Yeah, we lost about 20 to 30 minutes in the second Loop because of that, because he was nine times, because he was not really easy counterclockwise. It's a month, you could direction for navigation. So this is how we started here.
[00:32:23] Tayson: So, Finish Loop to you get delayed 20 to 30 minutes. Talk me through just what it's like to get. Like, I'm sure it was that the only time that you missed books, or did you miss books throughout the event? It was like, get off navigation like, you know.
[00:32:43] Aurélien: Yeah, so I think from this time from the second Loop, we really made a lot of navigational mistakes across the race. Look, two, three, four, and five ideas, I think 30 to 40 minutes lost into an obligation or. But in the end, I was able to manage because I was moving faster on the trail but yeah, it was a difficult because sometimes I was by myself and sometime I was with group but by myself it was difficult to make some navigational mistakes. So
[00:33:12] Tayson: I'm by missing some of these waypoints and having these delays. I imagine that's a very stressful thing and can really work on the mind. You know, you're in a Race Against Time, you're gonna race against others. You're you're pushing, it's night, it's cold, you're tired. You're getting hung, you know, all the, all these factors are coming in and then you make a 30 minute navigation mistake, what does that like mentally to go through that process for you? I mean, I'm sure you're trying ahead of time to plan for that and say, like I know I'm gonna make a mistake, I know I'm gonna do this, but in the field is always different than in planning, right?
[00:33:48] Aurélien: Yeah, I know. Of course the NCC is exactly what you said. You have to prepare yourself about the different scenarios and you have to prepare yourself that you're going to be lost at some point and and just that you have to keep calm that you have to analyze where your ads open your map, analyze the terrain and analyze the river in front of you or the trail in front of you and see where you're at and analyze that as best as you can. Of course, you have your heart rate, which is a becoming faster you're with more stress. But in the end, you have really to analyze where your ads by opening your map and eventually after some working around back and forth in some different direction, you find yourself back in, on course. But yeah, I was, of course, dressed every time I was, I was lost. But yeah, I did, I think the maximum issue I did was about 20 minutes error, but I was. Yeah, I was Finding by the train. Because exactly from what I said, looking at what is around, you the river and Etc. So yeah. So when I think about this race, I think about
[00:34:49] Tayson: like the navigation side of things and I've been a sports in my whole life and I spent a lot of time off Trail and quite a bit of time just reading topographical maps and things like that. Right. So I think in my head I'm like I don't know like I might be starting at a slightly higher Advantage than someone else who's never had to do that. There's only followed Trails. There's only done those kinds of things. but what I'm realizing is you're talking is I've Had done some, but navigating at night time. Is it completely different scenario? I'm wondering if what your thoughts are on, you know. Is that what takes the majority of people out of the race? Is that navigation, maybe specifically navigating at night time, probably the single biggest thing that takes people out of the race.
[00:35:39] Aurélien: One. It's one of our deficiency when you read the reports, if you need to see, some of them are failing because of that, not only about that or because of wrong nutrition and because of the creation, you all depends, but if you want, is one of them. And this is why Barkley so important to me and so difficult for many. Because if you have one issue on only one variable example for this one is navigation, then your dad. And you know, you're not going to finish. So yeah.
[00:36:13] Tayson: Yeah. I mean, I I can imagine. I mean, that is what makes the Barkley. So interesting. Is that there's not one difficult Factor. There's, there's compounding difficult factors. So you completely to and how much time
[00:36:26] Aurélien: I think it was 21 hours. Yeah, look to where I did nine hours for the first Loop and about 12 hours for the second week, so it was 21.
[00:36:36] Tayson: Okay. Um, to start loop three, are you still running with your partner at this point?
[00:36:43] Aurélien: No on groups. Here was what I said. I was by myself. I John Jarrett, Campbell, and carrot Savi on the beginning of loop 3. But then I was like Jared Campbell Jared Campbell's running who's who's completed
[00:36:58] Tayson: the Barkley's two or three times now?
[00:37:00] Aurélien: Yes, exactly three times. Yeah.
[00:37:02] Tayson: And he didn't complete it this year.
[00:37:04] Aurélien: He did not know stop at the start group because he was, I think he having knee issues Okay, so yeah, but I spent most of the third book with him and he had me for some navigation. Point on the third Loop. But then after the, after the loop I was Again by myself and then I don't care. So yeah. Jared had some issues and he was not able to complete this year.
[00:37:28] Tayson: Why why would someone help another Runner? That's not like, like it makes sense. If you start the race kind of in a team mindset or a mentor mindset, But why would someone who's maybe not trained with? You doesn't know you personally, why would they be willing to help you?
[00:37:45] Aurélien: Yeah so it's about cooperation if you had someone else he will help you out. Again it's all about cooperation cooperation because you're not running against the runners really running against the race itself. I think nobody. Yeah, nobody finishes for the last six years. So of course, you want to help each other out and, you know, that you're not going to finish by, you're not going to be five people finishing. You gonna need to help use a runner in the next to you. So you can also help you out in the future in the next two parcel. So you really have to cooperate and the navigation is much more easier. When you're 2% focused, 100% then compare, if you are by yourself, and this is like exactly the purpose to be stronger together and eventually you're going to succeed or the other one is going to succeed. And you're going to succeed against the race, which is a beauty of this race compared to other racing events.
[00:38:39] Tayson: That's that's an interesting scenario to put yourself into because I imagine that's kind of like, with the FKS. I've talked to a few guys that have K T's and there They're rooting for people, you know, they're cheering for people that are attempting their fkt, which seems backwards because most people want their record to stand for a long time, right?
[00:38:58] Aurélien: Of course,
[00:38:59] Tayson: it's a very interesting Dynamic that, that I guess comes out, you know, as you're out there. So,
[00:39:05] Aurélien: yeah.
[00:39:06] Tayson: So you complete Loop 2 loop three, It was there any moonlight? Just wondering if or is it complete dark? Do they
[00:39:14] Aurélien: know because you're in the forest. So, basically, even use their is Moonlight, it's a whole hidden by the trees. You don't like. So I don't think he was even one night time of the race. And now, it was really, he was really dark knight.
[00:39:30] Tayson: Okay, so you get through now you're complete Loop 3. Maybe Luke 4. What do you remember? What kind of your times were coming into those?
[00:39:41] Aurélien: Yeah, so I did the third group in search history hours, I think. so, I think he was about what 20 hours again for the Stream, And the three was they time and he was also reverse Direction it was like to but instead of night time, it was daytime. So you know I kind of compensated the fact that I was more tired during the third group but by daytime it was easier. So I was able to do about the same time and the previous So it was about yeah 33 hours when I finished by myself for the third group and at this time I think I took about 20 minutes break before the first Loop because the first Loop was going to be by night and I would really want you to have some sleep before going back to the forceful because then that was the second night where I was into my race and I was at I was going to face some some issue during this time so that's what I did. I took 20 minutes break and then I started again my Facebook
[00:40:43] Tayson: So, 20 minute break, is that 20 minutes of sleep or is that total break time?
[00:40:49] Aurélien: It was 20 minutes of sleep. Let's say I was laying down on the floor for 20 minutes and I think I had about 10 minutes of sleep during his 20 minutes, but it was, it was enough for me at least to to start moving again. It was not much sleep compared to what we expected but that's it was better than nothing and it was happy me to
[00:41:09] Tayson: To start fresh almost. So, was that the only time you slept during the event?
[00:41:16] Aurélien: Yeah, exactly. Because for the first loop, I didn't sleep during the roof, and then when I finished my first loop, I was at it was daytime. So, so yeah, I was able to
[00:41:30] Tayson: 58 hour race on basically 10 minutes of sleep. Yeah, that's crazy. So, going into Loop four, that's got to be concerning because now you've got you've been running 12 hour Loops, you only have about a three-hour buffer and now you're gonna go route running at night. How did Loop 4 go?
[00:41:50] Aurélien: Before was difficult. I was discovered halfway and we were sleep deprived. Both of us. I was rushing in front of him, and I was a virgin. So I didn't really know my way to go. And cover was also received the price, so he was not able to fix my mistake soon enough. Let's say, so, we lost a lot of me, a lot of time doing, navigation, on mistakes, as we should not have made during these first half. So this is how we started and then at the half of the loop by decided to Google by myself because I was more confident about the next section. So that was gonna come up. So I moved faster and try in order to try to go with the front group and this is what I did. And I didn't do any other navigational mistakes from that because I was really 100% focus and not counting on Carrere. So he was it was yeah tulips in one first half was covered, second half was almost 100% by myself but 100% focused and perfectly executed. Let's say until I finished in 40 6 hours, I think.
[00:42:53] Tayson: Okay. So you've still got, you still got a bit of a buffer on a 12-hour? Looper, at this point in time, got about two hour buffer Plus or 12 hours that you're technically allotted. So you're sitting in a pretty good position, completing Loop 4,
[00:43:07] Aurélien: Yes. And
[00:43:08] Tayson: then the way that Loop 5 works, if I understand is one person will go One Direction. The next person has to go the reverse direction, right? You're separating essentially, every other person is having to go an opposite direction. So, Were you the first to start out? Did you get to choose the direction? Or did someone else? Go first?
[00:43:27] Aurélien: Oh, I don't get any was the one who went first? Because he wasn't the first one to arrive and he was ready for me. So, you went first out. So, I had to take the second Direction which was the counter clockwise. John decided to take the clockwise because of personal and because he was more farming, he think. So, I had to go with the concert for quite, which was not the direction I wanted, that's the beginning. I was gonna say something that is about 15 minutes and I think three of them. So I lost about 14 minutes, but every time I was able to manage by going faster when I was on terrain that he So yeah, I wanted to control quite because I was the second person to to choose I mean I didn't choose some John Kelly. How much is first?
[00:44:16] Tayson: How much behind John Kelly, did you start?
[00:44:19] Aurélien: Five minutes, just five minutes behind. We had a very fast transition where John accelerated himself because he wanted to choose the direction. But we were at campus at the same time.
[00:44:30] Tayson: Okay. So are these Loops the same year after year? Meaning like, if you've run this race before, are you running the same Loop?
[00:44:40] Aurélien: Yeah, mostly, yeah, it's changing every year, little bit. When you have a finisher, he met, he makes a lot makes the race beats more difficult. But he does that from the actual race every time. So once you do it, you will really more familiar with the race and then he's changing a little bit from it. So of course, the veterans who did it in the past are very more familiar than the virgin. It's really interesting. Yeah.
[00:45:09] Tayson: So you start Loop five here. You're headed off completely on your own daytime or nighttime at this point.
[00:45:15] Aurélien: Five was daytime for for inches of Finnish, almost. There was one hour by night at the Finish but why?
[00:45:25] Tayson: Okay, and there's kind of a legendary aspect. I feel like that's starting with with your particular Loop because you got to a book and it wasn't there, right?
[00:45:34] Aurélien: Yeah, exactly. That was actually, my not my last group and not my last book, but the one before my, the book number 12 on my last group, and it was not there, as you said. So I was frustrated. I was like, I'm gonna lose my finish just because of that.
[00:45:51] Tayson: So I was you haven't done, right? So you don't know, for sure the book was supposed to be in an exact spot like you have on a page out of that book.
[00:45:58] Aurélien: I know you every time goes through the same books every time, Okay, so every Loop you go through the same books, but this time it was missing compared to, it was not missing the first four loops. So actually it was going right. Only five minutes. And I started to move again because it was not there and you should have been there but I was frustrating, of
[00:46:23] Tayson: course. Okay. Okay, so that I didn't realize that. So the loop the loop is roughly the same Loop. Every time he made change the books location on the loop, It's basically the same. Okay. Okay, so that that makes more sense because I had heard you talk about this and you'd said You're very confident, the book should have been right here and in my head, I'm thinking, well, how can you have such a degree of confidence? But you knew that because you'd already taken four pages and out of that book.
[00:46:56] Aurélien: Exactly.
[00:46:57] Tayson: Okay, okay, so you you walk around, you lose about 15 minutes at that book.
[00:47:01] Aurélien: Yeah. Right. And then both, I mean, you can
[00:47:05] Tayson: frustrated, but you're so close and And you had said that. You knew that you had completed it so you were not worried about not having the page out of that book,
[00:47:17] Aurélien: right? No, I'm not already because I had to complete the race. I mean I was going to compare the race so I was really feeling emotional already has this time. I was crying and I was a I was shivering. So it was good for me. You know, I was just frustrated about having these feeding off, not completely to bring Twitter pages instead of 1322, you know.
[00:47:44] Tayson: Yeah. So, you did only have the 12 pages when you returned is that right?
[00:47:49] Aurélien: Yes.
[00:47:49] Tayson: So walk me through what it was like finishing this race. At any point. Do you start to wonder if you're going to be the first finisher?
[00:48:01] Aurélien: No, no. Don't worry. I was expecting to be the second from this race. I was expecting for John to be arrived at already, and I didn't even ask her when told me that John was out there, I was surprised at the finish and that's not really what I wanted. But I was, it was crazy. I mean, I was reading my dream, he's been six years. I was living that dreaming about that and and then I got from the forest party. So quiet and calm and you get into the to the gate and you have all the crowd and screaming and cheering for you to arrive and and you think about your, your family, my girlfriend, Lucy, and all the people that are backing friends and following and it's a mixed feeling, a lot of emotion at camp with the people cheering and with a family and girlfriend in France cheering by distance. So it was just such a great memory and emotion. It was I was living my dreams so it was particular.
[00:48:58] Tayson: That is so so awesome to see that happen for you. I mean six years of a process of of training building basically a portfolio of runs and events of completions and Records. It's so much that went into this race for you. I think it's easy to say like, like, in my head. I'm thinking this is your first attempt and you go out there and crush it. I mean, you complete it, it's so phenomenal. But it also just goes back into a testament of what you've put in for six years. Leading up to this race, right? Yes, I'm running this race, but you've put so much into this point.
[00:49:37] Aurélien: No, no. It was not only like, of course, you have to be lucky for this, right? But it was not only about that. I put a lot of effort into that, for the last six years. I, of course, did not expect to finish on my first attempt. I mean, I expected, and I did my best to do that, but I was feeling okay to not do that on my first attend because you have to to know those backgrounds history on the race. Not many people finishes on the first attempt and, and to do that, it was such a great feeling and, and yeah, he's over that. It's so so much effort. I put the years. So, but I'm feeling very, very grateful to have happened on my first attempts. There is not many people who have that, and yeah. It was a race of my life, really? I had a amazing emotions or during the race You
[00:50:21] Tayson: know, how many people completed it on their very first attempt? Not exactly. I think we were about four people
[00:50:27] Aurélien: maybe out of the 17405. Maybe, I'm not really sure.
[00:50:32] Tayson: Wow. Yeah, that's, that's incredible. Um, So obviously that's a huge highlight, finishing is such a massive highlight. We're there was there another highlight during the race that Stood out to you like a time when when it was just like you're at the highest of high during the race.
[00:50:48] Aurélien: Know, it's difficult, it's difficult to tell. I think my best highlight was a finish obviously otherwise the second highlight when it was when Guion with it. Quit I wanted him to finish as well but there were many things as well. There were, I don't know. No. Yeah the main highlights for me was the finished. I was executing perfectly everything happened smoothly and great despite his navigation or errors of course, but if you wish was amazing everything. Every time I think about the race and thinking about the finish, of course,
[00:51:25] Tayson: What, what do you think was the the lowest point during the race?
[00:51:29] Aurélien: I think it was my first Loop definitely. My first one was, when I was with cover, I was sleep deprived. I was not really Focused anymore. I was counting on him too much and now I was cleaning like I was Very, I need to sleep but I was not able to because I was out there so he was a little moments but he was not that low after 20 30 minutes. I was back again moving and it was okay.
[00:51:54] Tayson: It and did you think that that you were was ever a point where you thought? I've made too big of a mistake. It's maybe I'm not gonna be able to complete this. Like, did I guess that? Is that what you were feeling in that moment on Loop 4?
[00:52:08] Aurélien: No, not really, I started to feel this. That's the second Loop when I was feeling like the time limit was getting closer so far away from the finish. It was 18 hours in and 42 hours was remaining and it was like time limits are getting closer now. So it's gonna be a big deal is going to be But once that after after I won at a time, you know, things are are getting closer to the finish and I was doubting for the first 40 hours, let's say. But as I was keeping moving on the fourth Loop. And when I moved through my second night and was when it was daytime for my Facebook, I was feeling okay, I was feeling okay, you can do it. So I was feeling actually pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, that's it seems like you. Did you run it? You ran a very consistent race.
[00:53:00] Tayson: You didn't get behind. you know, too much where you're fighting that clock, you know, like you had that little bit of a buffer and you're able to kind of manage that buffer through, so many of these laps, it seems You know, from this side of the table. It's like, man, he ran it. He's so well executed. I'm sure from your side of the table, it didn't always feel that way, right? But
[00:53:21] Aurélien: almost almost like that's almost like that's it was really, I use a lot of uterus scenes and every time there is something going on a big shoes that you have to deal with. And these time it was not really big issues. He was No, it wasn't great, really? I was feeling good. I was leading my dream. I was having fun. I actually white people think you don't have fun doing the Barkley and it was sharing. We sharing with people sharing with others leading my dream. I was feeling happy to be there is this year, despite the Finnish just leaving. So, so it was good.
[00:53:54] Tayson: So, so there's three finishers this year, the last six years, there's been no finishers. You think that whether had anything to do with that like this year was a pretty hot year, right? And there was no rain. Do you think that had anything to do with it? Do you think that it was more of the Synergy of the runners working together? What are your thoughts on that?
[00:54:13] Aurélien: Know, of course I mean but you don't have to we don't have to to say it's because of the words of that there is Refinishers. It's about everything. Of course, if you have a bad weather or the or the race, maybe nobody finishes, but this is also because we were ready, many Kara and John, we really spend a lot of effort into that. So, of course, the weather was okay, but, but it's not only about the weather. And of course, if you the weather was worse, we would have spend more time. On course, we would have been slower and Scarlett, John, and me will not have finished. Maybe. So, it's a combination of the two, of course, and of course, you have to hope for the best weather possible, but when the best weather is here, you have to take advantage of it and when you take advantage is because you trained properly, so it's a combination of the two.
[00:54:59] Tayson: Yeah. Are you gonna go back and do this again?
[00:55:03] Aurélien: Yeah, lots of free next year but we'll see, it's also beginning investment. It's also big personal investment. So I want to to have my balance in my life. I want to take the decision wisely in the in the smart way. With my girlfriend, we see, and with my family Etc because you have to train for even he's not only about applying and racing, you have to apply. But then you have to prepare for it for a couple of months and it's quite a commitment. Even though it's fun in the end, it's a commitment that you don't have to take lightly. So of course, I really would like to do it again, but I'm not gonna decide today. I'm going to decide by the end of the year and we see
[00:55:43] Tayson: Yeah, I think that's really smart and I think it is. It's a massive commitment, just to train, right? Let alone take the time off to go and do the event. It's yeah, it's so much personal time to train for an event like that it's it's huge.
[00:55:55] Aurélien: Exactly funny. Yeah, exactly.
[00:55:58] Tayson: Yeah. I wanted to ask you this just kind of some takeaways from this. What, what don't people understand about themselves until they've tried something like this, right? Like what? What have you learned? Through the process of doing efforts. Like this, that you don't feel like maybe other people the general general public. Maybe hasn't been able to experience. Strength and weaknesses. I would say
