[00:00:00] Tayson: Everybody welcome back to the live ultralight podcast powered by outdoor vitals. Today in this episode we had a fantastic interview with Kyle O'Grady who all introduced just in a moment. But if you are new to this podcast, make sure that you do give us a subscribe. If you are, someone who is AVID about getting outdoors, more comfortably, more confidently and therefore more consistently on this podcast. We interview a lot of people share, a lot of great adventures that they have and hope that inspires you to get outside and also learn from their, their what they've done, right? Maybe what they've done wrong as well. Today we had a phenomenal interview with Kyle, Grady, who is very popular, YouTube personality and outdoor Enthusiast. He's gained a large following for, his humorous, takes on hiking and camping, the his channel, and what most of you will know him by as Kyle hates hiking, despite his Channel's name. Kyle was actually an avid hiker, who enjoys exploring the Great Outdoors and sharing his experience with others. His videos cover a wide variety of topics from tips and tricks for hiking and camping to gear reviews and Hiking vlogs. He also has started pretty recently sharing stories of mysterious disappearances and even some murders on some of these longer Trails or through hiking destinations. So those actually been pretty interesting and they've been growing his channel a lot. So if you're interested in hearing about some crazy stories and tales from some of those long trails, sure to go check him out on Kyle, hates hiking on his YouTube channel, but today in our interview, had a really great time with Kyle, just catching up learning a little bit about him. Learning about, you know, his his hikes, he's hiked the Etsy, hike, the PCT, To away some some tips and tricks from him, you know, covering 20 miles a day and how to do that. Base weights covering, you know, eating on trail and just a lot of other unique topics and it was a great conversation. So I'm excited to show this interview with you guys. And with that, we'll go ahead and Roll It Forward. All right, Kyle, super glad to have you on the show. Thanks for being here today.
[00:01:58] Kyle: I'm excited. I really appreciate. Oh man. This is how we're gonna start out. Really appreciate the invite we got, it's gonna be great.
[00:02:06] Tayson: I love it. I'm glad you did that. So it feels like I know how permission to be a little more. Yeah, stumbled across my words and you're calling us from Hawaii right now, which seems like it's a long ways for many through hiking trail. But how's that going for you? It's good there. Yeah, there's
[00:02:22] Kyle: really not. I mean, I'm not like an expert on Hawaii hiking to be clear, but there there isn't much even for backpacking. Here, there is the call out Trail though, on Kauai, which I had never heard of, before I before I came here. But I, I don't know when this is gonna come out by the time this comes out. I'm sure I'll have a video up about it already and some podcast stuff too, but that's cool. It's only about 22 miles. So that's not really like a That I wouldn't really consider a third hike, but then again, nobody knows what exactly constitutes the through hike and we could do a whole episode just on that. I'm sure. 22 miles. That sounds like a
[00:03:01] Tayson: through hike. A few more people could actually complete, you know?
[00:03:03] Kyle: Yeah yeah definitely I don't know, like what is like, what is the cutoff right? Like I made a video about this a couple months ago? It's like For me, I feel like a through hike is just like when you hike one Trail continuously, but then again, there has to be some sort of mileage cut off, because to me like 100 Mile Trail that you hike in continuously, that feels like direct to me, but a 22 Mile Trail doesn't, but like, I don't know where the cutoff is. So it's kind of It's kind of interesting to go down that rabbit hole. I don't know
[00:03:32] Tayson: that is a good point because 100 miles does feel pretty substantial like it's a command. So like maybe just need to loop around the island for the five times to break that. He got a paddle to the next Island and then you gotta see if you want to call it right on Hawaii, you got it. You gotta go from Island to Island in through High the whole range there. So
[00:03:52] Kyle: that would be pretty sweet. It'd be a lot of roads, at least on Oahu. Maybe on the other Islands, it wouldn't be as much, but it's not too much too much free space here.
[00:04:02] Tayson: um, well, I wanted to also say, congrats, I pulled up your YouTube channel today and Channel is blowing up. Like I first, I was like, have I just not been watching closely enough because like when did you get to 144,000 subs? And then I watched like, I pulled up a video from like a month ago and you were like, hey I'm trying to cross a hundred thousand subscribers and so like in a month, you've gained 44,000. So it seems like you're just blowing up. Yeah,
[00:04:29] Kyle: I'm very grateful. I'm very grateful. I started this new series on my channel, a couple months ago where I basically Tell stories often unfortunately like pretty sad stories, or sometimes just like interesting, like weird like mystery stories about like things that have happened to various hikers. Whether it's people being stranded or, you know, very things. Some, some murders stuff like that and Yeah, it's like pretty morbid stuff but like that has definitely drawn in a lot of people. It's kind of interesting because I feel like I'm kind of sort of Bridging the Gap between like just having, like the hardcore like, you know, hiking nerds And also having just a more General audience that maybe doesn't know quite as much about hiking. And so, I think that's the reason why my channel has grown so much. And, and I'm very grateful because I've been I've been grinding away doing YouTube since the end of 2019 and you know I had had some success before that too but like nothing like it's been the last few months and so it it feels good and yeah, I'm just super grateful. If I'm sure there'll be some people watching and listening right now that follow my channel. So if that's you I genuinely appreciate it so much.
[00:05:45] Tayson: Yeah, I I may have you tell a quick story because you've got, like, five or six of these type of videos now on your channel, maybe more. I'm not sure. Yeah,
[00:05:52] Kyle: I think I've got close to 10 at this point, something like that.
[00:05:55] Tayson: And they they definitely seem clickable and very interesting for sure. So maybe maybe to give them like a teaser here, Kyle, because I really, we want them all to jump over to your channel and listen to these or D. I don't know if you tell him on your podcast as well but
[00:06:11] Kyle: no, the podcast is more. The podcast is going to stick to hiking her stuff. I think.
[00:06:18] Tayson: Yeah. So maybe give me like an overview of one of these stories. Like what is it? What is happening in him? What? Cuz I think they look interesting, but I have yet to be able to go through one.
[00:06:31] Kyle: Yeah. So I'm gonna I'll talk about one that as of the time is recording, it hasn't come out yet but it's gonna be out tomorrow. So I'm assuming this will be out probably, you know, a while after that video is out. So anyways. Story about a man named Jesse Pinegar, who disappeared on the man. My brain is not working call out Trail. The Hawaii names are a little tricky for me. Sometimes call out Trail. That one I mentioned at the top of the episode here. So in Hawaii in Hawaii. Yeah
[00:07:03] Tayson: okay
[00:07:03] Kyle: yeah and I went I went in and hides this Trail a couple weeks ago and it's a pretty like notorious Trail. Like it's there's like some really steep Cliffs like that's kind of what it's most famous for is like there's these sections of Trail where it's just like a straight drop right into the ocean, like it's it's not technically hard like the trail itself, it's not like you're climbing up and over stuff or, you know, dodging things like it's pretty easy Trail, but it's just a very You know. Steep penalty, if you missed step, I guess and some dangerous. Yeah, yeah. And this is dangerous river crossing and some beaches along the trail that are kind of dangerous actually very dangerous because of the currents and stuff. Anyways, so it's a pretty like it's a pretty like gnarly Trail and in 2008, there was a guy named Jesse Pinegar who appears on the trail and They found his family found out about a campsite. He had left like a few weeks I believe, after he had gone missing and there's been no sign of him ever since then. And one of the, I think one of the coolest things about this new series I've started on my channel, is that not for all of them. But for a number of them, I've gotten to, like, actually talk to the families of these people and they're always so appreciative, which is awesome. And it gives me a chance to like, ask them what they want me to include in the video stuff. Anyways, I, I talked pretty extensively with with Jesse Pinegar sister and The family, you know, this is just their side. This is where we stray a little bit from the hiking aspect of it, but the family was very insistent that the police in Kawaii, like, didn't really care very much about his case, or didn't even really try to help or anything like that. And so, they were so appreciative that, like, 15 years later, I was like, giving them like a platform to kind of like tell their story and like help raise more awareness about what happened to you know, what happened to Jesse. So that was that was really cool. But I'm not surprised that someone went missing on that trail because like I said, it's just If you're an experienced hiker you'd be fine on it but I just I just feel like it was more like high stakes than a lot of other trails that I've done. Like there's just less room for error I guess if that makes sense like you would be fine as long as you're careful, but if you're not careful, that's where things can go wrong. And people have a lot of people have died on that trail. Due to all the various factors that I just mentioned a minute ago.
[00:09:40] Tayson: So you're you're really just becoming a pi, you're just starting to invest,
[00:09:44] Kyle: you know, I'm not investigating anything. I'm just telling the stories, you know, and yeah, maybe someday maybe probably not but maybe someone will watch one of my videos and that will spur their memory or something and they'll be able to help one of these stories or help solve one of these cases very unlikely. But that's like a That'd be a dream. I guess a pipe dream, so we'll see. If it ever does happen, you'll definitely hear me. Bragging about it.
[00:10:12] Tayson: So some of these, some of these are they murderers or are they just missing cases?
[00:10:18] Kyle: Some of them are murder, some of them are missing, they're all hiking related. So this isn't like they're all. They're always gonna be hiking related. That's, you know, that's I'm a hiking nerd. And so I'm never gonna stray away from that aspect of it, but just I've got, I've covered a bunch of different things. Yeah. Like people who have been murdered People. Yeah, who have gone missing on various Trails? I've even covered a few that are just like strange, maybe not quite as serious. Like, I did a video about the, the 12 tribes Cults and like their relation to the Appalachian Trail and how they kind of like Target hikers on the ATV, which is something I kind of witness a little bit on my through hike and then just other, like, various stuff. I like to find more mystery.
[00:11:06] Tayson: Now, what the heck is the 12 tribes
[00:11:09] Kyle: Colts? The other heard about that before?
[00:11:10] Tayson: No, no I haven't.
[00:11:11] Kyle: Yes. So on the at 12 tribes is like You know, some most people, at least on the trail refer to them as a cult. And so, that's how I refer to them in my video, which turns out did offend some people. But that's how they're most often viewed and they have a hostile. They're like a religious, it's really weird. Like, again, I'm not an expert on them. Pretty much all I know is just from my experience. Um, you know, what I witnessed on the 18th and then, of course, I did do quite a bit of research for that video, but they're like a religious group, but it's like, They're like. Hippies too, it's really weird. Like when you think of like a religious Kind of fundamentalist group. You don't picture them also having like hippie Vibes but it's like a mix between that it's like it's very bizarre, not really my cup of tea and there's been like some controversy in relation to like the way that they treat their children and the women and like it's not like super clear like there's no like Super clear, cut controversy. I mean they're kind of is, but like they haven't really been like convicted of anything at least in the United States but like there's they don't have a great reputation either, I'll let people make that judgment for themselves if you want to do more research but like Anyways, the way it really is, they have a hostel in Rutland Vermont, which is a at town, and they let hikers stay there for free. You know, you can give like a donation or whatever and then My understanding it didn't happen to me to be clear, but my understanding is that I don't know how they make this judgment, but some people will be approached when they're staying there and asked to come. You know, leave the trail and go to this like Farm, they have and then they'll try to, like, get you to stay, I guess, you know, and like, So that's its kind of a recruitment tool. Basically is kind of targeting hikers like that and drawing them in, with this free hostile. So it's a little bit bizarre. I know they go to like, Trail days, and I've heard also just from the comments on my video about it. People say they're present on other Trails too. Although I haven't and, you know, notice that myself. So I don't know. It's It's a little bizarre. They make good food, though. I'll say that they do they have a they have a deli attached to the hostel and the sandwiches are banging.
[00:13:28] Tayson: All part of all part of HR. I'll put a recruitment there.
[00:13:32] Kyle: Yeah, I guess I gotta make some money too somehow.
[00:13:37] Tayson: That's that is pretty wild
[00:13:38] Kyle: surprised. You haven't? I guess if you have it, you know, I don't know. I don't know. It's like a very like Niche. Like at thing, I guess.
[00:13:45] Tayson: Yeah, I I would say I'm way less first on things at, I mean, I did go out the trail days this last year and we did hike 100 miles section there, but east coast. That was my first ever experience. Oh hiking.
[00:13:59] Kyle: What section did you do?
[00:14:01] Tayson: We just did 100 miles right out of Damascus going. Okay, so Cameron Highlands and yeah
[00:14:06] Kyle: most of them mobbed? Right around Trail days, I bet.
[00:14:09] Tayson: I mean, I have nothing to compare it to and we didn't stay at any of the shelters or anything like that. We're just, we were like, this is weird. Why would we stay next to people? Because like out here in the west, it's like, you should try to get away from people. Yeah. So and we were, we were on a pretty tight schedule. So we were doing, you know, like 25 miles a day and so, it's just kind of like wherever we landed at the, you know, however, far we could get to, we kind of call it there. And so
[00:14:36] Kyle: I got, um,
[00:14:38] Tayson: But it did seem big. I think we were just ahead of the biggest bubble, though. Like, we left, I think we were there on Saturday and then left at, like, 3 p.m. and got like 10 miles in that day. And I think we were just,
[00:14:49] Kyle: oh, yeah,
[00:14:51] Tayson: I think we're just ahead of it. And it was funny because there's there's a lot of people that were on trail. We were passing and they were all like the bubble right behind you. We heard covid went crazy in Damascus. And you know, like all this there's a lot of like fear and they're like trying to stay yeah too. So no, it's really, it was really cool to hike out there but I would buy no means. Sam an expert or know a lot about the 80 year. East Coast hike. Yeah.
[00:15:15] Kyle: Next, have you have you been back since to the east coast at all? You gotta get up to the White Mountains. If you're gonna come back to the East Coast, And you only have a limited amount of time which I'm assuming you got to go to the whites. That's that's the best place on the east coast, in my opinion. In terms of in terms of hiking
[00:15:33] Tayson: now, that was my thought was to come back and do a section either in the whites or the Smokies. But the whites seem a little more appealing to me person
[00:15:41] Kyle: smoking are cool too. I haven't really been there very much just on my through heck, but in the whites I've been there like Tons, and tons and tons. I'm gonna be going back real soon here, too. That's like, yeah. That's That's the best place for sure. And on the east coast, and it was that that's like the most challenging stuff, too. You're gonna, I guess the Adirondacks here are pretty similar, but white little bit easier in terms of the logistics and stuff. So yeah, I would definitely recommend that.
[00:16:06] Tayson: Yeah, I think we'll have to On that note, you hike the at correct. Sir, and you hike that before you ever started like YouTube podcast. Anything like that? Correct,
[00:16:18] Kyle: correct. It was kind of like the. Oh sorry. Sorry.
[00:16:20] Tayson: Go. Ahead. No. No. When was that
[00:16:22] Kyle: was gonna say, I thought of the idea to start making content when I was on the ATV, I didn't actually make anyone. I was out there.
[00:16:30] Tayson: Yeah, so I first heard of you while I was on a backpacking trip with Dan Becker and Devon Ashby. But they were talking amongst themselves and I'm like, who's Kyle, what are you talking about? And I think it was mainly, because of, the way that you had started your channel, you know, kind of, I mean, with, with a name like Kyle, he's hiking. Obviously, you'd already hiked the 80. So I don't think you like hated hiking, right? That's just the whole play and then you kind of started by your channel by doing some things a little bit more. Abrasive. I guess I'll say yes, but just, yeah, that's just trying to like you're trying to I I'm at a loss for words as well right now, but it's just like trying to be a little goofier. Not, yeah, seriously. Being goofy being chill. And I can, if you watch the videos like, like, you got it, right? You weren't like Like yeah, tell me you're like well what is this kid? Who is this?
[00:17:23] Kyle: I mean, every now and then summon definitely does not get it based on my comments but most people, I think, I think do
[00:17:28] Tayson: yeah. No. It's Commenters on the Internet, or a whole different. Yeah, yeah. It's it's insane out there, right? You can't create anything without without
[00:17:42] Kyle: wait till you get 100,000 subscribers, then see some of the comments you get.
[00:17:46] Tayson: Yeah, I mean, it's still on my mind. Read comments at that point. Yeah,
[00:17:50] Kyle: I do still just because like I don't just every now and then you get something wrong and like, you know, and people could point that out which is helpful. But you know, I probably shouldn't read them as much now that I'm getting way more than I ever did before.
[00:18:07] Tayson: Yeah, yeah. No. It's I would agree. I would agree. So talk to me a little bit about just the start of all of your content creation and maybe that first hike was like, did you actually dislike any aspects of hiking? Did you ever go through a phase like that or was or was that? No, part of
[00:18:24] Kyle: it was always talking cheek the name, which is kind of funny. Yeah. I mean I started my channel. Like that was the idea behind it. I was like, you know, I love like backpacking videos but like, man, all these guys, they just take it so seriously, like, it's so I was like, that's just not who I am. So I'm gonna like try to You know, do similar concept. It's still give people useful information of course, but like, just present it in just, a more fun way and just be goofing around, that was the idea right from the start. And it's kind of funny and a little bit ironic maybe that you know, I I found a lot of success with that, but also my channel didn't really blow up until I started making these very serious, like videos, like like very dark videos, it's just kind of ironic But yeah, I mean, I I bet in 2018 and I I always been interested in content. I've been a YouTube Nerd, my whole life. I've spent I even now after making so many YouTube videos for a number of years like I've still spent way more time in my life like consuming YouTube than I ever have actually making videos. So I've always been like a Content nerd and then on the a t i got really into podcasts because I was hiking so much and so I was just like, listening. I was just like desperate to find new podcasts and like, doing all this and that and I've always wanted to make content and I think even then I wanted to make YouTube videos, but I didn't. I didn't really have the guts yet. And so on the at, I got the idea. I was like, you know, when I get back, I'm gonna start a podcast. That's seems easier than starting a YouTube channel. I already have. I already had this microphone. I had like some pretty good technical skills already that I developed when I was in college and even before that a little bit. And so I was like, that doesn't seem that difficult. I can Talk, I can record I can do basic audio editing and so I did that. I like the 80. I told everybody not everyone, I told a few people, I was gonna start this podcast and they're like, yeah, whatever dude, and then I got back and sure enough like a week or two after they finished they were getting a text from me like yo, let's do a podcast and like what? I didn't know he was actually serious. So I did that and I did Trails which is the show for over a year before I finally got the the courage to get on camera and like I said, the idea was just goofy a good information but presented in a in a goofy way and You know, I found some traction pretty quickly. I was very, very grateful that people were kind of latching onto the videos. I'd like to think that I got a lot better. The more that I did it and I just haven't stopped. It's been what has ended end of 2019 is when I started the the videos and end of 2018 was when I started the podcast and I did take a break from the podcast for about a year from like August of 21. Until December of 22. I guess a little bit more than a year, but the podcast is back now and just 10. I'm everywhere on tiktok now. I never thought I'd say that a million a million years but here we are. I'm a tiktoker apparently. Follow me. Follow me on there. And yeah, just what just, what is your favorite part, what is
[00:21:36] Tayson: your favorite part about creating content, like what do you get out of making all these videos, you know, besides like, there's some monetary benefit, right? But like like, what's your why behind doing it?
[00:21:47] Kyle: Um, let's take a question. So, one of my favorite things, I don't know if I could pick like a, like just one thing, but one of my favorite things, for sure is getting emails and messages and comments from people. Like, telling me that it's helped them with, you know, whatever various thing or that it's I've gotten people tell me like my content has inspired them or partially inspired them to do their own through hike, which is awesome. You know, every now and then I'll get recognized when I'm hiking by somebody and they'll tell me like I remember back in. The summer of 2021. My channel wasn't even that I probably had like 15,000 20000 subscribers back then. And I went on a just an overnight hike on the AT&T and I just happened to go through right when the through hiker bubble was coming through that area and I like, we got me, and my friend philosophy, who was in a lot of the videos. We got recognized by like so many through hikers and like they were telling us like, oh, like your videos were so helpful on this point, we were in Vermont. And so this point they were, you know, well into the trail and clearly like we're like doing well. We're on track to make it all the way and so like just hearing like all these people like it was in that many people, you know, it's probably like five or six people, but just in, you know, just over the course of a day that was quite a bit and just like hearing these like through hikers, these badass through hikers. Like, telling me that like my videos were really helpful for them, you know, and helped. Though certainly was not the only reason for the success that they had had, you know, up to that point on the trail, like that was just really cool and very, very rewarding. So that's a big reason that's like a huge benefit and then also just like it's just fun to be creative. It's just like and you know YouTube is definitely not like the most like creative you know thing out there. I'm not saying that but It's just really satisfying to like put a lot of work into a video like spent a lot of time trying to come up with a topic and a title and a thumbnail that you think is going to be well received and then to put it out there not really knowing for sure and then to have it like be well received it's just like very satisfying so that's like a really a really cool aspect of it as well. This is a lot. Yeah.
[00:24:11] Tayson: Isn't it interesting that like your videos can be seen by tens of thousands or 100,000s of people, but like he talked to one person on trail and it's like Yeah, I'm doing something here.
[00:24:22] Kyle: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's pretty crazy, honestly. Like, and it doesn't happen like that often. But like, yeah, it's, it's cool, it's cool.
[00:24:31] Tayson: It's, it's a weird kind of day and age to be in because I feel the same way, like if we get stopped on trail and talk to it, it means so much more than like a comment, right? I know
[00:24:41] Kyle: which is all time. Isn't that crazy? Because like the You know. The core of what they're saying, might not be any different between the conversation. You have in person and the comments on YouTube or whatever but like and I and I said those those comments still do mean a lot like I said but um if there is just something about it happening in person that's True, cool. I don't know. It definitely means. Like, I, I can like, remember pretty much every interaction that I've had with someone like on trail that, you know, recognized me but like, I don't remember every nice comment as much as I wish that I could. I feel trust me, right?
[00:25:22] Tayson: Yeah, last year, we put together this program and we just we're we're doing it again this year called The 100 Mile Challenge and it's It's like this DIY challenge, you can sign up for and and then we have like a Facebook group and then we do like live coaching calls essentially to help people kind of go through the framework and in the training. And last year, we just did it as a beta. And it was wild to me that have like everything we did of products. We launched content, we released you know, all of the things that we did that was like the single most Um, like personal like made me feel better about like stuff we were doing anything else, right? And even that like we, it was just a small group, we capped it, it was wild just because it was way more personal and it just really, it really goes to show like this weird day and age that we live in of, like we can be affecting thousands of people but it sometimes it's hard, you know? When you're behind a computer doing it and you're not getting that face-to-face time. So, no, that's cool. That's cool. You're getting recognized. And those, those really are valuable experiences. So if you see Kyle out on the trail, make sure you have him harassing
[00:26:31] Kyle: unless you hate me. If you don't like me then, just keep on walking.
[00:26:35] Tayson: Yeah, so you've also done the PCT. Was that? That was last year, I'm not.
[00:26:43] Kyle: Yeah, I did. I did most, I didn't do all of it. I did like 80 ish percent of it about 20. 2200 miles of roughly.
[00:26:52] Tayson: Okay. What what's what happened there?
[00:26:55] Kyle: Uh, just like fire closures and that was the main thing. And then like I I probably, if I had just like, you know, it was, you know, early to mid-september by the time I went home. Like, if I just hung around for like, a couple months in the car or something, I probably could have popped back and forth and ended up getting everything to be clear. But I just didn't really want to do that. And so yeah, I did, I did most of it but like, there was so many closures and Which is far from a unique story on the PCT these days, but the worst one was the Canadian border closed because of a fire like when I was, you know, within, you know, Striking Distance of it which was a real bummer, I was already in Washington at that point and then we learned that the Border Section was closed because of a fire. So that was a real bummer. That's kind of the nail in the coffin. I do think it opened back up at some point. But yeah, I don't know, at that point it was just too late for me.
[00:27:56] Tayson: Yeah, that's That's incredibly frustrating. I imagine, I can't imagine
[00:28:02] Kyle: The way it goes.
[00:28:02] Tayson: Three
[00:28:03] Kyle: goes on the PCT. I'm I'm gonna hopefully get back out there and finish it up. The end of this summer. That's the That's the plan. My permit is permits are still pending but You know, that's the, that's the, that's the plan.
[00:28:21] Tayson: Okay. If you were to recommend someone to go on a through hike, you know, between the PCT and the at, what do you recommend first?
[00:28:29] Kyle: Um, I think either way you'd be fine, like there's there's beginners or not even beginners, just like first time, through hikers on both trails. I think if you're from the West Coast then you should do the PCT first. If you're from the East Coast then I would say do the at first physically the PCT is probably a little bit easier though is not a lot of people say that and then it gives the impression that the PCT is like a cakewalk. It's not it's still very difficult but it is just a little bit. Better graded on some of the climbs and stuff atc's here. Logistically, you don't have to worry about resupply nearly as much. I'll tell them. He's generally still pretty easy. There's just a few spots that are not easy and 80s, almost always very easy to resupply on so just depends, I would say the biggest The biggest deciding factor would just be like which would be easier for you to get to if your East Coast do the at first, if your West Coast, if you're in the middle of the country. Those often forget about middle of the country, folks. I don't know. Maybe that's a toss-up. That could go either way, flip a coin, I was at a better answer, but you can't go wrong. Either way,
[00:29:47] Tayson: you're good, what you feel like is some of the best advice you could give for someone preparing for through hike.
[00:29:54] Kyle: Um, it kind of depends on how much backpacking he's experienced. You have, if you don't have any, then my bet, my biggest piece of advice, would be go and get some backpacking experience first. Do as much as you can, there are people every single year on every single trail that have never spent a night outside and they make it all the way. So I'm not I'm not trying to discourage you but like the more experience you have the better 100%, And then Mentally, I think that a lot of people go into their first through hike, not really understanding. And there's no way for you to fully understand what it's gonna be like, obviously, but like, I think a lot of people tend to underestimate the mental side of things. And that's very understandable but just know that it's hard. And it's not always fun a lot of the time. It's not always like super fun. It's it's very rewarding, it's always rewarding but it's not always fun. And so I think that people should really like, Really think a lot about their reasons for being out there. I know for me, personally, I need more of a reason than just to have like a cool adventure for some people that works. But I feel like that's not the majority because like, you can go, you know, you can go Adventure anywhere for a few weeks, and then after that, you're going to be okay, I'm a little adventured out, I think it's time to go home and get clean or whatever, so that's your only reason. I just feel like you're chances of succeeding are as high, but again, there are people that still succeed with that, that mindset. But for me I needed like a bigger. Reason to hike in just like for me that was just this goal of wanting to complete like the entire trail. That was something that was just like very important to me. I mean it was important on the PCT 2 but that just kind of fell to the Wayside after a while because of all the fires and stuff. But on at special like that was very very important and that was like what kept me going? Instead of just wanting to see cool views because you get sick of the views after a little bit, sometimes, depends on. Depends on the views, actually, but sometimes, but, I don't know. Hopefully, yeah. Just take the, the mental preparation like very seriously and physical, too. But that kind of goes back to just like having some experience and stuff before.
[00:32:15] Tayson: Yeah, let me ask you that. So like, how many miles do you typically average per day?
[00:32:21] Kyle: When, you know, it varies, you know, on the PCT. I averaged more on the at I average about 15 per day when all was said and done and including zeros, including arrows, everything from the day, I started to the day that I finished. I averaged 15 but you know that means that typically it was more, you know, anywhere from like I'd say, like around 20, it was probably like a good like Average. There was some days that were more. There's a lot of days that were less too. On the PC was a little bit more. I don't remember. My total average on the PCC because things got so messed up with sections that we had to skip and all that. I could figure it out pretty easy. I just haven't but it was probably closer to like, I don't know maybe closer to like 18 or so per day 17, maybe something like that. So we were doing like 25 miles days. We're fairly typical on the PCT. We did some 30s, you know, lots of 20s, I would say after we got ramped up, Up and in the PCG, like I said earlier, is just like the grade is easier. So a 30 mile day on the pccs much easier than a 30-mile day on the at generally speaking, I think, I only did one 30 mile day on the at
[00:33:33] Tayson: Yeah, I mean those are some big days 20 to 30 miles. That's a lot of a lot of miles in a day. So if you were to compare the mental versus the physical, what do you feel like is is harder what's I guess, what do you think takes more people off Trail?
[00:33:50] Kyle: The mental, I think. I think, well. A lot of people get off trouble, because they get injured actually. so,
[00:33:58] Tayson: and it doesn't take long once you have an injury to like, mentally check out too, right?
[00:34:03] Kyle: That's a good point. Maybe there's people that get off Trail due to injuries that could have pushed through it or not, maybe push there, but just could have figured it out and found a way to heal it, but didn't It's really tough to say. I do, I'll just say that a lot of people do get off because they're just not having fun. And it's not really what they thought it would be even people that have. you know, they're like to previously like Well, get off Trail on their next three, right? Because of mental and all sorts of stuff. That happens quite a bit. So like, yeah, the people leaving because the mental stuff is
[00:34:41] Tayson: Is very common for sure. Isn't that interesting? That even if they had done it through hike, like what what we choose to remember, you know, a lot of times, we, I always say, is you forget the bad, typically, you learn from Certain aspects. But but you really remember the good and then you just kind of Reminisce reminisce, reminisce out there and you're like oh wait this was really hard. I totally forgot how hard this was or
[00:35:04] Kyle: yeah. And sometimes it can be circumstantial to like, even just maybe you're in a different place in your life, for your second, through hike, and it's not as good or maybe. You just don't like to Trail as much, you know, the whole you know, ton of different reasons that I could happen but it does happen, it certainly does happen. I mean what argue that even happened to me, you know I like to give myself a little bit of leeway because I do think that if the trail had been opened I would have liked all the way through. All right. But like I mean technically I could have Hopped around and probably completed the whole Trail last year but I didn't. So you could even say that I quits. Yeah, it's just like a running joke and Debate on my channel now like did Kyle quit some people say yes sometimes say yes. I don't think anyone's made that. Yeah, that's a good one. I'm surprised nobody maybe someone made it. I just missed it. I don't know. That's a good one.
[00:36:10] Tayson: So doing over 20 miles a day though, I'll just say that because like you said there's a scale there but doing 20 or more miles a day. It's a challenge, it's a challenge for a lot of people. And it was actually one of the most common questions that we got. When I was hiking on the Appalachian Trail, that little section that we did because we were kind of in the range per se of where people were typically doing 13 to 15, maybe 13 to 17 miles a day. And so, when we came through, we were doing honestly, 25 a day on average, we did have one 30 mile day, which was a complete access, that's pretty good. I wish that we didn't have. I wish that we had had far out, we would have, we would have saved ourselves, some headaches at times we were just, you know, just going and so like one of the times like the day we did over 30 was not planned. It was we got onto some private land where we couldn't camp and we were like, oh great. So then we just had to keep moving through you know but that's why freaking good dude for
[00:37:10] Kyle: not through hiking. On the 80. You just hop on there and do it 30 mile day. That's pretty, that's pretty good.
[00:37:18] Tayson: We do train a lot like we we run. We trail run. Okay. You know, we tried to like cuz, like she ever go to the into High Line. I think we averaged 22. Plus miles a day, maybe even higher. So you get 110 Mi section in four and a half days. So we've got a really good crew here. Like we all run, we all train. We basically trail run because it's just a faster way to get miles in if that makes sense. But yeah and we and we fast pack a little bit as well. But back to back to this question for you as we get that question a lot like man, how do you guys do 20 miles a day and like and so we've kind of talked through like well you know maybe it's this maybe it's this like trying to figure out what we're doing different than them per se besides just A physical preparedness. What do you say to people like that? Like what are what are some things that you feel like guys that are doing? Let's say 13 to 15 miles a day. What are some things that they could tweak or focus on that would allow them to maybe extend their range every day?
[00:38:17] Kyle: Yeah, it's a good question. I think that you have to preface it by saying. You know, as you just mentioned there too, A lot of it just like is just physical like if you're not in shape for it doesn't matter what little hack or what little trick you have to be in shape for it. And so on both of my long through hikes when I started I was not doing 20 miles days. In fact I was even I started very slow for the first, like, couple days on both of them because I didn't want to over exert myself. I intentionally under exerted myself. But and so like a big aspect of it is just building up to that like on the 80 I didn't do my first 20 miles a day until day 20 and so on the PCT it was probably a little bit sooner but it's still wasn't within the first couple days like you in I was training before both like you have to be ready for it but then when you If you're already doing 15 miles a day, then it's probably not too much of a stretch and everyone's it works. It's different for everybody. So for me, I think the biggest thing is, Just pacing. Like I will just like, Try to plan ahead a little bit and Pace myself. So like okay I know on the PCT especially oh there's another, there's like two water sources I'm gonna hit today. I'm gonna try to just hiked, you know, without stopping between both water sources and those will be my brakes. So I really only take like one or two breaks a day, you know, breaks as in like, sit down and take off my pack breaks, you know, every now and then I'll stop to catch my breath or whatever. Sit down for a second special towards the end of the day. And then so I like to go pretty hard. In the morning and in like, you know, the first half of the day or first two,
[00:39:59] Tayson: what a morning to you. When do you get up?
[00:40:01] Kyle: Not super early. You should try to be on trail by like 8 or so it varies like on the PC in the desert it was earlier because it was so hot. So we would usually start by like six or six thirty on on, yeah, maybe says 6:30 on those days. But then as the weather, got a little bit. you are just as we go out of the Sun all the time, we would sleep in a little bit more on the 18th. The same thing like 8 a.m. 8:30. Usually I'm not an early riser, but yeah, I would just like try to go pretty hard for like the first half or two thirds of the day and then Not always. but if I could afford to just kind of like, spend the last little bit of the day, like, maybe the last like five miles just like, Going a little bit slower and like, cooling off a little bit. I would try to do that, too, just to kind of like ease. so, you don't come barreling into camp, like After this 30-mile day, just like all pumped up still and freaking which is still happens to me. Sometimes I'll I'll rip in there after like a really long day and I'm all just like fired up and I'm just like, you know, doing laps around the campground or campsite trying to find like the best spot for my tent like that does happen. But you know, it's like our five-hour energies the party of your kid. No, no, maybe they should be, Maybe not. Maybe I don't know, but
[00:41:20] Tayson: so yeah. Speed is pretty important. You ever hike after dinner?
[00:41:25] Kyle: Sometimes, but not usually. Not on the regular only if it's really hot and we need to do night hiking to get the miles in.
[00:41:35] Tayson: So one sometimes you feel like you typically stop them
[00:41:38] Kyle: pretty early like, usually around like 6:30, I'd say, like six to 6:30 and I found that on the PCT specially. There was a lot of people that would still like the same amount of miles that I would hike. They would just spread it out a lot more. Like they would usually leave before me in the morning and then I would pass them and I would get to Camp like an hour sometimes. Even you know, longer before that, they would get there. And, you know, we still do the same amount of miles. They would just take more breaks and Hike slower and I'm very much like, I don't I like to, I like to get the miles in and then like, really relaxed at camp and like, really just feel like my work for the day is done. I know, that's a bad way to look at it for some people, but that's just how I've always looked at it. That's how I look at everything kind of like when I'm working in normal life to him like I want to get everything done and then after that I can just like relax but that's kind of the way that I would look at it. But, you know it's different. It's different for everybody, for sure. Yes. So let me ask you
[00:42:37] Tayson: a few questions on. Weight and fueling. So let's start with just pack weight because if you're, if you are doing those kind of miles, and you're not necessarily hiking later in the evening or starting too early in the morning to me, that means that you're you're moving at a pretty good clicker and click down the trail. So how much like what's your typical pathway? How much, how much emphasis do you put on pack weight? Because I feel like some of the guys that we were talking to they definitely had some weight that they could have trimmed off their packs.
[00:43:06] Kyle: Yeah. I I mean you could always say that right. Like, even the most hardcore Ultra lighter probably there's probably something. But we're
[00:43:14] Tayson: not talking like the 8-pound, basically. Guys, we don't talk about those guys,
[00:43:17] Kyle: okay? Look at things. I'm about 10 pound base weight. However, I have all my camera gear and so, I generally don't include that in my base weight because like, most people aren't carrying three pounds worth of the camera stuff, but I am. And so, without the camera stuff, it's around 10 pounds. and, you know, that's pretty. I think that's pretty good. And I still have a stove. I still have like an inflatable sleeping pad. I have a, you know, a lightweight tent, but still a tents, not just like a tarp. So, I feel like I've been able to strike a pretty good balance between having a pretty light setup. and also, Still being like, pretty comfortable too. I don't really feel like I'm sacrificing any comfort in order to get to that base weight, it would be nice to go a little bit lighter. Sometimes, just because on a long through hike, I eat so much food. I carry so much freaking food like some people hike with like a 40 even less leader backpack and I've always felt like for a for a shorter trips. I could do that definitely. But for a long-term like the PC here the at like I just specially the PCT maybe data could get away with it honestly because the resupply are shorter but on the PCT and on the CDT I'm sure too. Like I need a lot of space in my backpack for food and so that kind of is a bummer and that has a lot of weight to depending on the resupply. But yeah 10 pounds is around what my base weight usually is minus the camera stuff.
[00:44:50] Tayson: yeah, I think that's a that's that's always what I shoot for us to 10 pound base weight. And then from there, I feel like I can add in any luxury items in a couple pounds of. Yeah, I want to bring a fly fishing rod or something or whatever it might be for my specific trip. it's a great place to be, and I think, I think when you get below 10 pounds, it just Benefit to what you can save is pretty is pretty minimal, right?
[00:45:18] Kyle: Yeah, if you're, if you're going below 10 pounds, you really got to be doing like some big Monster make it worth it. You know. I feel like if you're I mean, and again if that's a general statement it's different for everybody obviously. But like for me certainly, I don't think that I would worry too much about going below that unless I was trying to do like Days, so long that I've yet to ever do miles that long. So yeah. You know, that would
[00:45:43] Tayson: you frame are you a frame or frameless kind of guy?
[00:45:47] Kyle: A frameless guy for sure, that's the frame. Oh, long time ago.
[00:45:52] Tayson: Okay. Talk to me about about fueling. She said, you like to eat a lot. What is a lot and how often are you eating?
[00:45:59] Kyle: Um, A lot, a lot of snacks. How often I'm usually eating like, you know, like a breakfast, a couple protein bars, I'll launch on a few throughout the day too launch. I'm sitting down and I'm just rifling through all the different snacks that I have. And then dinner, I'm eating a big dinner. That's probably where a lot of the pack volume and wake comes from. I'll try to eat like Well, over a thousand calories for dinner, which is not easy for backpacking food, right? I'll wrap everything up in a tortilla and have multiple tortillas to, like, boost the Cal I'll eat like a big dessert. So, just like a lot of candy and Nutella and whatever. After I'm done dinner, just to look really boost those calories. I'm trying to get as much as I can, because I don't want to be like super, just like skinny by the end of my theater, like that happens to a lot of people in, like you, you're gonna lose weight. Like there's no way to avoid that but like I really tried not to be just like total Skin and Bones by the end. And I did a pretty good job with that. I'm through I lost a lot of like my upper body muscles, but I wasn't like, like, totally just like skinny, so I feel like I did. Okay. But man, I'm, I'm getting so sick of backpacking food, dude. Like man, I'm just I feel like, I'm just always looking for new ideas for food like, I can't just eat the same things. Over and over and like, man, I'm just so sick of it. Like, I, it kills me to eat like super unhealthy for like, multiple days in a row, it's just one day and then I'm totally fine with that. In fact, I love that but like you know, once a week or whatever have like a cheat day or whatever but like man all day every day, like it is on through hikes. For me. Anyways I know there's ways to eat healthy but I have a hard time with that. I have a hard time getting enough calories honestly and so like yeah the food is One of the biggest bombers of their hiking, honestly.
[00:47:56] Tayson: Yeah, that was always our question to the through hikers is like, what are you guys eating? Because, you know, we're I feel like we're we're very luxurious in the sense. Like, we're not doing it through hikes so we can bring a lot better food and more of it. And I mean and we retell things like Peak refuel and honey Stinger products and stuff like that. So it's like we have access to a lot of that. So we're eating like, really well down to like drinking drinking like greens during the day, right? But like these guys are just I mean they're eating tortillas of peanut butter and and gummy worms. You know? It's like yeah
[00:48:30] Kyle: it's sucks dude. Like it honestly sucks. I feel like I only have one more long long through hike in me after doing two already and a big reason why is because like it just kills me to go that long eating so terribly. And look I know there are some people out there who eat healthier on through hikes so it is possible. hard like you, you have to be sending a lot more resupply boxes so you can really like be picky about what you're eating and that adds a whole nother aspect of it that I hate dealing with and a lot of Excuse me. A lot of other three records hate dealing with. It's all just hard for me to get calories. Like I eat so much, like I said, like even in regular life like I eat a lot and so in order to get like all these calories I can't just be eating like dried fruit like 2047 and And I don't know. I don't know even those Backpacker meals and stuff. I started buying more. I didn't buy any of those on the at in 2018 and by the PCT I was starting to buy those a lot more just because like Man, like I was just getting so sick of like the rice and the mac and cheese and stuff. And even though I was starting to get sick of like The Backpacker meals and stuff like, man, it's just I hate the food. I hate the food aspects.
[00:49:50] Tayson: It's a good point like that might be. the end of it, the hardest thing I could imagine on trail, like I Enjoy modern day eating I guess if you
[00:50:00] Kyle: love vegetables and like one thing I did do on the PC which I didn't do on the at was um I would pack out vegetables every now and then especially avocados like I would pack out an avocado for like the first day after I leave town and I would just add it to whatever crap. Hiker meal. I was eating. Yeah. And you know, that helps a little bit and then I would say, oh, when I get to town, I'll eat healthier, but then I was just so hungry, I would just end up eating junk food in town too, but at least it was better junk food. It was like fresh junk food and said of dehydration, junk food, but right, I don't know. Yeah, the food stuff.
[00:50:35] Tayson: Do you feel like there was ever any long-term disadvantages from from eating on, through hike, for instance, I Emailing Frozen. A little while ago. And he talked about actually developing some kind of getting anemic because he wasn't eating enough Greens on the trail and it was like really affected his energy levels for a long long time. I'm curious if you've ever noticed any Degradation you know physically from the diet out there.
[00:51:05] Kyle: No no I haven't. Thankfully I've noticed Other physical problems like little aches and pains and stuff. But nothing from the diet, thankfully Man, that that's a bummer. I don't know. I don't know if I've ever really. Heard from anyone who's experienced that, or maybe this people that have that. Just don't realize it too. I know. That's, that's crazy though. I'd like to talk to him about that. I haven't talked to him for a while. He's a good guy.
[00:51:33] Tayson: Yeah. Um, what is your favorite? Meal. Ontro.
[00:51:40] Kyle: Um, I'm sick of it now. But like my go-to was a Annie's mac and cheese. Okay, and then I would add hot sauce all oil. Pepperoni or salami or whatever, chicken, whatever me I had. maybe an avocado and then I would put it in a tortilla and eat mac and cheese and tortilla,
[00:52:02] Tayson: Easier than cleaning a spoon, right?
[00:52:04] Kyle: Yeah, and it's just more calories. You just like you just needed. You just need the cash. So you add like two or three like tortillas in to dinner and like that's a lot of extra calories, you're getting there so it helps and I don't know, I guess it does make it a little bit cleaner. Although not the way that I wrapped my tortillas. I'm not very good. You think after all these tortillas, I've eaten on trail and Australian a lot too. I think I'd be better at folding them but it's not the case.
[00:52:29] Tayson: Yeah. Have you ever heard of backcountry foodie?
[00:52:35] Kyle: Sounds familiar. I'm not really super familiar, though.
