[00:00:00] Tayson: Everybody welcome back to the live ultralight podcast, powered by outdoor vitals. I'm very excited to bring to you in other special guests and special interview with Sam child. Today before I get into introducing our guests though just wanted to hit on a few things here. Most of you guys know obviously that this podcast is powered or hosted by outdoor vitals and we've got some pretty awesome things going on over there right now. In fact, if you're watching this on YouTube, you'll see that this shirt that I'm in. Yes, it is an altitude t-shirt and we're going to be releasing those if we haven't already released them already. So you're going to want to check those out. And we've also got some really really Sweet. And you unique shorts called the skyline shorts Trail shorts. So
[00:00:45] Tayson: go check those out. Two releases. That'll be coming out any day. So with that though. Let's go ahead and bring on our special guests. So Sam, I actually met Sam when he came out and did some backpacking with us here in our backyard and Zion National Park. Really resonated with him. He's done a ton of distance hiking from the PCT to the CDT and he's also hiked the Colorado Trail once not twice, but three times Andy's bike packed it. So he's very well seasoned Backpacker as well as bike Packer and it was fun to talk a little bit about bike packing which is something we haven't talked but what's also really unique about Sam is he is a writer. So he went to school Temple University, got a master's in Fine Arts for creative writing
[00:01:36] Tayson: and has just a very unique story of how he got into writing and now, currently, he's a freelancer editor for many Publications, many that you would know from wire cutter to New York Times gear, junkie outdoor gear, lab, the Trek CBS News many, many Publications, he's very talented at writing and we talk about what it's like to be both a writer and someone who's a minimalist outdoor person someone who's out there trying to create new adventures and have new memories as much as possible while still balancing a career in writing in the outdoor space. So if that's something that you guys are interested in, you guys are going to absolutely love this conversation with Sam child and we'll go ahead and bring him on right now. All right Sam I'm super excited to have you
[00:02:21] Tayson: on here. I wasn't quite sure what to expect if I was going to catch you, you know? Calling me from your your van or that's what you call your van or if you'd be out on the road where you're at, but it looks like you're actually in a building at this point in time. So getting some work done and He's never know, never know with you man. You live a pretty awesome life. But how you doing today?
[00:02:47] Sam: I'm doing good. Yeah yeah. I'm at my house in Denver Colorado. I actually Just moved into a different house and I live in like a finished attic room that my of a house that my friend owns. So unfortunate, unfortunate to be renting from like a friend, and not just a random landlord, but yeah, and I've been around, I've been in Denver, for the past, like month or so kind of working pretty hard and a lot of writing projects, but I'm pretty soon, the call of the The van and the camping anywhere and working remotely will pull me away again. So, I guess what you're saying is you do
[00:03:33] Tayson: actually do some work at times and then you see Blitz that and then you take back. Take off back out to the trail.
[00:03:41] Sam: Yeah, I mean that's that's pretty much been what I've been my ammo for like, the past decade really is like well, it's a bunch of work. And then like for several months at a time, and then go take off for a while and then come back and work really hard and then take off for a while this the past two months or so. I've I don't even know how many words I've written, but it's probably been close to like a million words. Sometimes grammarly tells me like, I look at my grammarly word, count for the week and some weeks at like busy times a year, it's been like close to half a million words that it checks, so that's I guess a ton. So that I'm getting to the end of that of the workflows.
[00:04:26] Sam: And now it's time for the Play in the mountains and work work, a little less time
[00:04:31] Tayson: if the snow will level ever melt off, you'll about have time to this perfectly. So so you write for a ton of different Publications, I guess your technically a freelance writer. That's a ton of Articles and words I guess to have been right. Written writing, I can talk here. like how like, how many different Publications were you riding for over this last month or two in the
[00:04:59] Sam: it was my like three I think where it was a lot of it was a lot of It was like three Publications and I have a couple like copyrighting clients all. So I actually do like I tried to do more like copywriting versus like, Outdoor writing or you know, it's maybe it's probably more like a 60/40 split for outdoor riding versus copywriting. but try to do, I try to mix it up so it's not just all outdoorsy stuff, but yeah, I mean about three publications of good. Go ahead. I was just gonna say, yeah, I was like three or so Publications and sometimes I just get a lot of assignments from one, From one publication and I just like turn them all out pretty fast. And that's, that's kind of what I've been doing lately.
[00:05:54] Sam: I think to the general public,
[00:05:55] Tayson: they're It's it. They're they didn't understand before or they haven't understood before they, they meet outdoor writers that a lot of you guys are freelance. I think, like historically, before I started meeting writers, personally, it was like okay you write for one magazine, you are a Backpackers magazine writer and that's it, right? But it seems like the majority of everyone riding in this outdoor. Space is actually freelance. I correct.
[00:06:25] Sam: Yeah, that's it. That's pretty Pretty common, for most of the outdoor writers to be Freelancers. There's probably like I don't know, a couple staff writers per publication and they're they're actually more the editors than the writers. Like if you're if you're a writer and not an editor, chances are you're a freelancer.
[00:06:45] Tayson: Yeah. Is that bring in any like uncertainty for you or did it when you first started down this path?
[00:06:53] Sam: Oh yeah, all the time I have. lined up, as far as like, Income. Streams right now. I have like very, very, very little in the future that I actually have like that I know I'll have so in, but so I'll have to like, pitch a lot of stories in the next, like, month to Have some. To like, have some income. But other times, you know, it's definitely like a feast and famine thing a little bit and but I'm sort of used to it. I'm like Worked a lot of like crappy jobs over the years just like, in between doing stuff that I actually care about. So, I'm like I'm pretty used to like not always having a timeline money and I live pretty simply so it works out for me.
[00:07:44] Tayson: Yeah. When did you know that you wanted to be a writer in this space?
[00:07:51] Sam: maybe about like, Three years ago was when I first like started to get the idea. because, So, I like at once upon a time, I worked for a newspaper. and then I graduated from college and Then that was around 2009. When the first like when the big recession started and then newspapers won't do so hot at that point. So that went to grad school and like was teaching at Temple University. And then I got an MFA in writing and then realized that being an Adjunct professor, which is like pretty much the job that you can get. If you have a graduate degree in writing that was just like a contract job all. So in that those contracts were like less than some of the copyrighting gigs. I get. Now for a whole semester where the
[00:08:50] Sam: teaching so, and then so I did that for a little while and then I just Quit, I rode my bike across the country and like started working in bike shops. and, So, like about three years ago, I just started thinking like, man, I can't just work in bike shops forever. I'm like in my 30s, I see like some other people that have just have worked in bike shops until they're like Older. And I just knew that that wasn't for me. So then I started like thinking, like, well I love I love the outdoors and I'm really good at writing. and I bet I could combine those things and then I just kind of started trying and I'm still figuring it out, but it's kind of working out these
[00:09:35] Tayson: days. Yeah. That's that's interesting. So he took quite a break from writing. I mean from the time yeah kind of college and and wanted to Bike Shops and and all that. I didn't realize that I thought you just wrote straight through but that's that's really interesting. So then I guess from there you've done some pretty amazing things right? Because I I think I want to get into, like, how simply you live, and I think that's a really fascinating, you know, minimalist aspect that allows you to go and do just so much. But let's, let's back up, I guess. And just start about start back with you. Riding your bike across the country. Like what, what was that about for you?
[00:10:18] Sam: um, it was that was something that like, I had always wanted to do since. I started since I like once. When I first got into riding bikes, which was sort of the first outdoorsy, Thing that I did, like, when I was in high school, I started riding a bike. A bunch. And then I started thinking like, I could ride farther and farther and then I like, found out that there were these bikes called touring bikes and then started going on like message boards finding out about like Touring bike, setups and stuff. And then so I like, I had done a bunch of like smaller bikes bicycle, tours From like the time I was about like 18 did like 23 or so and I had like the whole time I was just thinking like man, I
[00:11:02] Sam: gotta cross the country someday. And when I finished grad school, it seemed like the perfect time. The special. Since I was also kind of determining at that point that I didn't want to Do that as a career. So yeah, I just kind of did it.
[00:11:19] Tayson: You've been bike touring since like before was cool. I feel like then. It's now it's
[00:11:23] Sam: oh yeah. That's right. It was Yeah, like I was bike touring when it was only like nerds with those little velcro straps holding their pants on and stuff.
[00:11:36] Tayson: You probably had that the velcro shoes to go with it, right?
[00:11:40] Sam: I had, yeah, I had velcro shoes that was like before boa was on bike shoes, you know? But yeah, I was, I mean, I was bike touring before. Certainly was a brand but they only had the Long Haul trucker and the cross check at that point. Like they didn't have like 10 different versions of a Touring bike for every different. Type of surface that you could possibly want to ride a bike on. So when you're in your late teens and you go on a
[00:12:08] Tayson: bike tour, like what does that look like? How many miles are you going? Are you sleeping off the bike? Or you going City to City? What what's it like back then before, you know, gravel biking and all this other stuff starts to come into play?
[00:12:21] Sam: Yeah, it was. I was making my own routes with, like a paper Atlas that I carried with me. And I have like really like a bad. Camping setup. I have this like shity tent. Can I swear on this? Is that okay? You're good, you're good. Okay. I like a really cheap tent. It was like a 50 dollar time that I bought on the internet before like you could buy much on the internet and like a cheap sleeping bag and Just like a rolled up foam sheet for a sleeping pad and like very little out. And I would just like, make routes on a paper Atlas. So I had to stick to roads that were on a paper Atlas so like mostly paved highways and stuff. And then I would just kind of ride you know,
[00:13:09] Sam: right all day 60 to 80 miles a day. Pretty consistently and Just like find a find a place to pull off the road and Stealth cam basically did a lot of that.
[00:13:22] Tayson: It's wild. That's that's just wild because I feel like so much of today's day and age is you see it on Instagram, you see it online and then you start to like aspire to go and do those things, right? And then, and then so, like people see other people through hiking and they see it and they see it, and they see it and then it's pretty soon. Like, well, maybe, I maybe I want to hike, and it kind of builds a different way versus you. I doubt you were seeing many people doing this at that point. You were just You just thought it was cool.
[00:13:54] Sam: Pretty much. Yeah, I like thought it was cool. I knew no one that was doing it but I was like figured it out.
[00:14:02] Tayson: So, what was the biggest Poll for you into into getting into touring?
[00:14:08] Sam: Just being able to ride your bike even farther and like not have to like ride 50 miles and then be able to have to go back to where you started. So just like the continued like the I guess the journey like where you could just keep going and then like stop wherever you want. Relatively and then like camp and then just do it again.
[00:14:31] Tayson: yeah, there's was there like certain locations that you were you were riding to or was it just like? I mean it was it this is was this back east or where were you riding out of?
[00:14:41] Sam: So my first ever Bicycle Tour was Around Lake Michigan. So I lived in Chicago, I grew up in like the suburbs of Chicago and I thought, like, oh well I bet I could ride my bike around all. Like Michigan. So that was like a bike path along. The the shore of the lake through Chicago. And then I just like looked at a paper map and saw that there was a road there was roads that more or less followed the coast. and, And I just like, went for it.
[00:15:16] Tayson: It's awesome. Okay, that makes a little more sense like I could see where you're like getting pulled in like to go and I don't know, I get pretty goal-oriented where it's like, I have like, I'd want to have Maybe a small reason at least. So like going all the way around the lake would be a pretty cool badge to to have accomplished.
[00:15:33] Sam: Totally and it was like close by and I like saw it all the time. So it seemed like pretty attainable and I had done a couple like short Overnight kind of things to, like, sort of figure out what I was doing. So I was that wasn't actually like my first first tour, but it was like the longest the first like long one. That wasn't like a day or two. and those and the day or two ones were just like, Point myself out my front door towards like, The nearest State Park, which is 100 miles away or something, and then Camp there and then write home. Hmm.
[00:16:08] Tayson: Yeah. so, You do this touring, you go to college, you move out west. So we're working in a bike shop. When did you start hiking? Because you've done a ton of hiking as well. I mean you've you've threw or you you'd the CDT right and then the Colorado Trail a handful of time. So when did that kind of PPT? And yeah.
[00:16:32] Sam: Well, so that came into play because So, when I was, when I first moved to Colorado, I was living in Denver. and, I got this like free really cheap mountain bike from the bike shop like a customer. Brought it in and it needed like 500 dollars worth of repairs and it was a 500 dollar bike and they said, I just wanted to donate this thing. You can have it. And so, then I took it. and stripped it down to just the frame and then rebuilt it as like 27 plus bike packing bike. like and jokingly said, sad like, oh yeah, I'm gonna ride the Colorado trail with that and like I had never mounted like that all So then I rode the Colorado trail with that like trash bite and there's so many of the
[00:17:25] Sam: Wilderness detours on the Colorado Trail. Like there's one detour around Lost Creek wilderness. It goes around. I think 30 or 40 miles of like walking trail through the Wilderness and The Detour is 150 miles of biking on like dirt roads that are like pretty hot and exposed and like steep climbing. So like After the third or fourth Weldon is detour. I was just starting to think like, man, if I was just backpacking, I could be going through those wildernesses instead of like going around them, where it's just a bunch of people with RVs camping. And like and I have a real Wilderness experience. So then I then I got a backpacking backpack and started. Backpacking.
[00:18:09] Tayson: So did you finish the the CT on the bike then?
[00:18:12] Sam: I did. Yeah.
[00:18:13] Tayson: Okay because that I was looking at that actually today and you've got a website I was just kind of went on a little rabbit hole there of just looking at that. But I mean that's still looks like a pretty incredible adventure to bike pack. The CT
[00:18:29] Sam: Totally. It was it was amazing. I would do it again. It's so incredibly challenging but I would totally do it again.
[00:18:37] Tayson: What makes it challenging?
[00:18:39] Sam: There's it's it's a hiking trail that they allowed by time. It's not a biking trail. It's very, you know, it's like two steep to ride for. a good chunk of it, like not a good chunk of distance but like, it feels like a long distance when you're pushing your bike, Up something that would be challenging enough to just walk and you're pushing up a bike that's loaded with camping, gear over and like pulling it over like large screen fields and stuff. It's like really hard. There's a lot of hiking your bike. When you're buying the Colorado Trail.
[00:19:15] Tayson: Yeah, I was, I was kind of curious because I knew there was there's got to be some route arounds and things like that. But I didn't realize that. that you're still going through sections, but just I don't know. Are that difficult that aren't Route Around. Oh, you say,
[00:19:30] Sam: yeah no, it's like even last spring I took A friend that had never been bike packing. He wanted to like go out and try it out and I was like oh well ride the first segment of the Colorado Trail, it's pretty easy. and, When I when I like got on it again, I realized like oh only the first six miles is pretty easy and then it gets like really Steep and like chunky and there's like two foot. Stones steps. So you have to either ride over or pull your bike over for like a whole climb. That's not like that's pretty consistent. That's in the like the tame lower elevation parts.
[00:20:11] Tayson: She's so. How long did it take you to bike pack the Colorado Trail?
[00:20:17] Sam: 12 days. Yeah, like I'm pretty I'm pretty confident that I could hike it faster than that.
[00:20:26] Tayson: The Colorado in less than 12. Yeah. He's like
[00:20:28] Sam: I think so. I mean, like it's like, it's really you barely go faster on a bike or I at that point I barely went faster than I could go hiking now. I think
[00:20:39] Tayson: So are you fastpacking? I mean, because It's 480 miles, right?
[00:20:45] Sam: Yeah.
[00:20:47] Tayson: so, I mean, if you were to hike, that 10 days, you don't 48 miles a day. Are you just hiking or are you doing any kind of a fastpacking running jogging? Probably just
[00:20:59] Sam: most probably be mostly hiking. You know a little jogging downhill but Yeah, just walk all day. I mean Walking 50 miles in a day is like You know. 10, 12 hours of solid walking. Maybe 13 hours, 13 hours of three miles per hour is what? 39 miles. So then you would have to walk. What is that? Like 15 15, 16 hours at three miles per hour. Yeah, fill eight hours. Yeah. It wouldn't be like it wouldn't be like a walk in the park real chill, but I think it'd be right. It could be possible.
[00:21:38] Tayson: Yeah, that's seems really. Really fast. We're in fact, as a company. Our plan this summer is to go out and do like a quarter of of the trail and then maybe do that over the next four years do like 100 100 to 120 miles and then come out the next year. So that over about four years we can we can do it as a team but when you put it that way, it's like man, maybe we should just but that would be pretty ads.
[00:22:04] Sam: And be pretty intense. It'd be. Let me know if you do it with you, but I feel like, it's like, very very hard, but it's like, pretty well graded for Hiking the whole way, okay? Um, like it's I don't want to say it easy because it's not easy, but it's like way, it's pretty. it's like Smooth Trail for the most part and like on foot it's like pretty doable very it's very doable and like you you can kind of zone out enough It's like very well maintained. So
[00:22:41] Tayson: yeah, that's that's good to know. I like we've done some sections in some high wildernesses that like 20, you get about to 25 miles a day and your feet are just killing it from stepping, on rocks the whole time, and Definitely not super well graded. And anyways, it turns into be a law, a lot of time on feet. So I'll be, I'll be excited. I'm excited to go out to the Colorado Trail but So, is that your first through hike? Then was the Colorado Trail.
[00:23:11] Sam: Yeah, that was my first three hike that was 20 17.
[00:23:16] Tayson: Okay. So you've been busy, you've been busy since then?
[00:23:19] Sam: I've been pretty busy since then. Yeah.
[00:23:21] Tayson: Did you do the 80 first or the or the PCT or excuse me? Not that the PCT or the CDT first.
[00:23:30] Sam: I did the PCT next. I did the PCT in 20, 19. Yeah. And then I didn't see in 2021. but it seemed I was gonna do the CDT first because it was like, going through Colorado and it felt Like a obviously next. Next Trail, the hike but then I kind of let the prevailing. The prevailing wisdom that says the CDT is more challenging and therefore I should do the PCT first Prevail and I did the PCT first.
[00:24:05] Tayson: Well, now in your wisdom, what do you what do you think about that comparison?
[00:24:09] Sam: I think the PCGS definitely easier. I don't think, I think the CDT is more rewarding. And like, consistently. more of Like a Wilderness experience, it's definitely more rugged challenging but more rewarding.
[00:24:31] Tayson: But imagine that on the PC. Deer. Your hiking a lot with other hikers like so yeah, 80
[00:24:37] Sam: Totally. Yeah. What is the seat feels like? well, I hate the CDT southbound too, so it's kind of like even harder to Get a good idea, you know? Like, I feel like the CT Northbound in New Mexico. You'd probably be pretty consistently hiking with other hikers. If you wanted to. but, even like, Even then like it's not nearly as you know there's not 50 people a day, starting the CDT in the spring in New Mexico but there is absolutely 50 people a day. Starting the PCT every day from March. Through May on the p is like there's it's a different level of crowded there. but CDC southbound I saw, I think I met maybe 15 people the whole way and I hiked around a handful of them for a good chunk of time. And then
[00:25:32] Sam: I hiked around a handful of other people for another chunk of time. And then a lot of the time I was alone, too.
[00:25:39] Tayson: Yeah. So what going back to just like the challenge aspect of the CDT, I mean, it's more Wilderness. You probably have longer gear or Supply carries, right? Yeah. Part of what makes it harder. Is just the supply aspect or
[00:25:55] Sam: Yeah, yeah, I think so. Like I see. Pretty consistently at least 100 miles between resupply points. and that's, you know, that's there's like the 100 mile and the at which is the thing that everybody talks about the whole Trail, which is the longest, Distance between resupplies 100 miles and then that's like pretty common now. That's like almost The short. That's like a short one on the CDT and some regards. Yeah, but so that's that's challenging. And then there's some parts of it that are just Not very well traveled and not very well maintained. And there's often the well, you know, there's sometimes not even a trail and you're just Cross country walking. So.
[00:26:40] Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, I imagine it's much more grown in at times and just in that sense of it for sure. Yeah,
[00:26:47] Sam: definitely. Definitely rougher. Thank you even in Northern Colorado. I remember like being on the CDT and then once the Colorado Trail and the CT join up, it immediately becomes, it feels like you're on a hiking freeway instead of, you know, Cross-country walking across the bridge line with no Trail.
[00:27:09] Tayson: Yeah. I did like a tiny section of the CDT. down on the San Juan's and it was like a month or two after I had been on the at and I was just like, this is the most polarizing feeling I've ever had because like on the 80, it's like there's a blaze and the tree, every 100 feet, the trails pristine. I mean, it's just and then like on this one I'm like climbing over down. Tree climbing over down. Tree climbing. And I'm like, This isn't this year's downtree this tree's been here for a couple? Yeah years. Oh yeah. I mean like and no one has cut this tree out like it was It was kind of mind-boggling to me that they you know, because like I get it like if they like to me most
[00:27:52] Tayson: of those trails are at least maintained like once a year they come in and cut out trees. But this is in this scenario I was like these have clearly been here more than a year you know. So it's like oh yeah it is maintaining this Trail.
[00:28:04] Sam: Know and like it's some it's like pretty far away from the nearest Trailhead like often to get to some of these spots on the TV. You know, you'd have to carry a saw through the Wilderness, like 30 miles to Clear those Downs trees off the trail. So yeah, it's good be a while before that for that
[00:28:24] Tayson: wants some horses. Yeah. You don't want some horses or something to help out with that. Yeah,
[00:28:28] Sam: absolutely.
[00:28:30] Tayson: So you go, you do all these three hiking, you have this great but crazy. First bike packing experience on the Colorado Trail, but since then, you've really continue to do a lot of bike packing. So, maybe maybe walk me through. I, I want to, I want you to sell me on bike packing, and why I should give this a shot, like, describe maybe a great route that you've done. What, what makes it different and unique from from backpacking. I'm just, I'm curious. I've never done it but I'd love to hear why you actively do both.
[00:29:04] Sam: Okay. Yeah, I mean so I think the things that are great about bike packing are You could do. like, A couple hundred mile route through like beautiful rolling like desert Terrain. And like covered 50 to 100 miles in a day on dirt roads. See absolutely nobody. and still be able to like, you know, cover. 100 miles between water sources or something like that and like you could never do that. Hiking. And, you know, there you could never There's like it's a it's a totally different experience. You can go. You go, slightly faster you go way faster downhill. You can really like, just long long routes through the desert are where I think. I'm like that.
[00:29:58] Tayson: I was like, it sounds like the advantage would be when you get into these really open Landscapes, like with a lot of miles between cities and I'm like It's basically like South Eastern Utah and yeah, these roots are like let's come to my like everywhere else. Just so many people so many cities, right?
[00:30:17] Sam: Yeah, no, I think, I think bike packing is best done in the American southwest like, Southern Utah, Southern Arizona. I just did an amazing route down there for the second time, actually called The Sky Islands. Odyssey it It like it's about a 250 mile Loop that goes. Along the U.S Mexico border. Like south of Tucson and like the very farthest for the South part of Arizona and it's like through this amazing rolling landscape. with like all these massive mountains in every direction, you kind of ride through a couple a couple of the sky island ranges, and you just, there's always amazing views in every direction because You're just rolling up and down Hills the whole time and the sun sets are awesome. The sunrise of their house and you're like so far away from anything
[00:31:14] Sam: that the camping is amazing. And you can carry a ton of water pretty easily on a bike.
[00:31:21] Tayson: Border patrol down there very often.
[00:31:25] Sam: They usually, you know, as a white male like they just waved to me and keep going. Like they only, they don't even they're they're like They're used to it. They're just looking for, they're looking for not me down there. Basically.
[00:31:44] Tayson: You don't have a big enough bag to have
[00:31:46] Sam: a big enough bag. I have like nice looking stuff. So
[00:31:51] Tayson: so um, what's harder on your body bike packing or hiking?
[00:32:00] Sam: Probably. Probably hiking bike packing can be, can be hard on your body, I think. I've, I've gotten injured pretty bad with like, a really a loaded bike packing bike, kind of like falling on me when I was trying to push like on like Intense like a bike sections. But it's definitely I think I'd say hiking is a little harder on your body. Specially if you have like a heavy pack, So yeah.
[00:32:31] Tayson: So, how heavy of how, like, how much of your gear changes between bike packing? And ultralight? Backpacking, let's say, Or through hiking or yeah.
[00:32:43] Sam: Not. Not that much. I carry. So, for bike packing, I have to carry A tent poll because I don't have a tracking poll. I normally use like a trekking Pole. Shelter lately I've been just using a single trekking pole supported tarp or a single trekking pole supported tent. So I have like a tent pole to use in place of a trekking Pole. And then I use. bigger like more durable, water bottles that won't, that can like Be held on a bike instead of just like cheap. Like a harder Plantation cheap like smart water bottles. Like yeah, I use like analogy or even. I've been using one of these like these big like 40 oz clean canteens on a bike too. They're like super durable. And they're a little bigger than an algae, but not as
[00:33:32] Sam: big as the 1.5 liter. Now Gene, But other than that, the gear is pretty similar. I wear I usually bike tours or bike pack bike tours, or whatever you want to call it in. In Bedrock sandals, whereas I don't confuse clippings or something just sandals. But they have a really nice vibrant Soul. So then they actually like talk really well with the the like with platform pedals. So it works. They're honestly like some of the best like, but where I've worn and for like, for bike packing, it's great because then you're, you don't have to like worry about dirty socks. You don't even like, I have like one pair of sleep socks and then other than that, I don't even carry socks. Kind of works out pretty well. No, that's really interesting. I mean, you
[00:34:25] Sam: got full-time AC,
[00:34:26] Tayson: just blowing through there. Yeah, and I may see, And no need to worry about your socks. Getting covered in dirt every day.
[00:34:33] Sam: No yeah. And then like Like your feet, get wet. It doesn't matter. You right through a stream, you're ready? So that's awesome. That's that's pretty interesting actually.
[00:34:47] Tayson: With you mentioned a handful of times durable water bottles. I feel like you may maybe you have a story around losing some water or just having issues with.
[00:34:57] Sam: Yeah, I like, I've had I, I went through a period where I was trying to, like, bring everything that I had, like sort of learned from ultralight backpacking into bike packing, and I was trying to use, like smart water bottles on a bike and when they're not full of water, they just get a little too, they get Squishy. And so then like a bike But you know, like a bottle cage, even like an oversized bottle cage, designed to fit that size bottle, like doesn't really hold it very well and then you have to strap it down but then the strap won't hold it very well because the bottle is kind of collapsing. So just it just doesn't work out just so you just need the rigidity. Yeah, yeah. You just need rigidity.
[00:35:42] Tayson: Yeah, I have actually like in the high mountains where rocks get pretty sharp dropped. Smart, water bottle in put a hole right in it had to
[00:35:51] Sam: yeah
[00:35:51] Tayson: deal with that. So they're
[00:35:52] Sam: totally
[00:35:53] Tayson: they are breakable. I guess.
[00:35:55] Sam: Oh yeah, they're definitely breakable.
[00:35:58] Tayson: Better than any of the water Bladers I've used but I've
[00:36:01] Sam: yeah,
[00:36:02] Tayson: had a totally seen issues.
[00:36:04] Sam: Yeah, definitely. If you're especially the one that you're using, if you filter out of us, smart water bottle, like red filter onto it, that one always. Ends up breaking.
[00:36:16] Tayson: Yeah, yeah. For sure. So what's this year? Been like for you man, like you just mentioned, you went down by towards that sounds. It definitely sounds interesting to me. I'm in fact, I do want to ask this is so like he's got gravel bikes and for those who don't know, basically, a gravel bike is, is a non, I mean, there's no suspension, you've got specific tires on them, that that are capable on dirt roads, but also I mean, there's not much to them. It's not like a big mud tire. That's got any suspension in it. I mean, to me, I look at that and I I can't help but think that it looks a little painful to ride those but yeah, gravel bikes
[00:36:59] Sam: I mean, is that
[00:37:00] Tayson: is it just go away? Like, you just get an iron butt and you're just totally good. Or, or like, do you feel that by the end of the day, every time,
[00:37:08] Sam: so, I ride I ride more of a mountain bike than a gravel bike. Is what I'd say. I ride I ride like Usually when a bike packing I have like two point three inch tires. Whereas a gravel bike can fit like maybe one and a half. To almost two inch tires tops. Generally, you know, there's always exceptions and like, the the limits of like, what size tire you could fit on like a drop bar. Gravel bike is constantly being pushed, and now there's like drop our bikes with that. Can fit three inch tires. So you know, but like a standard, a pretty typical gravel bike. It's like, in my opinion, almost a road bike and I ride a mountain bike on gravel roads. If I'm like, backpacking, it's It's way more comfortable. I still definitely
[00:37:57] Sam: doesn't have suspension and you still definitely kind of have a sore throw our bodies or but at the end of the day, but you kind of like Learn to. To like be one with. with B1 with all the bumps and like you sort of like let your body like flow with them in a way. You sort of like stand up just enough that like the bike bouncing up and down does isn't like jostling you in the butt and then you're like you kind of lean into it and you Use your body weight to your advantage.
[00:38:34] Tayson: So I I didn't catch that. Did you say it's a mountain bike but still no suspension.
[00:38:40] Sam: Yeah, it's a mountain bike. It's a full rigid mountain bike because what I ride Is
[00:38:44] Tayson: it okay? So what do you is anyone bike packing with like a class one style ebike? Like a like a pedal assist ebike. Probably.
[00:38:57] Sam: Yeah.
[00:39:00] Tayson: It's not not common though.
[00:39:02] Sam: Yeah, I don't think it's, I mean you The range on it e-bike. It's still, you know, 50 miles tops. And that's like under ideal conditions with like just a rider that doesn't weigh a lot and like I'm pretty unless steep Terrain. So like, if you think about that you'd have to like carry multiple batteries. Or
[00:39:27] Tayson: you know,
[00:39:28] Sam: only do like a 25 mile route. Yeah, 25 or 50 Mi total Loop.
[00:39:35] Tayson: I asked this in part because I was at a like an archery. So I grew up shooting bows and stuff. I was at this archery shoot at a ski resort last year and a lot. Like there's a handful of hunters that started to use like The Fat Bike. Big, Big E bikes with big fat tires, right? And one of them have this massive fold-out solar panel and I was like, no way you can charge your bike with that thing was something like one to two hours of direct sunlight and it would top up the battery, you know. It's like I I want I haven't done any more digging on that but I'm like, man. That's That's actually pretty being impressive. If it really is capable of doing that, it would it would open up a
[00:40:16] Tayson: possibilities but Yeah, I don't know. I feel like that's a stretch. I feel like that's a stretch, but
[00:40:23] Sam: Yeah, yeah. I feel like it's definitely doable. You have to, you would have to carry like a second, you know, you have to carry a battery. Besides the massive solar panel, you have to have like a battery to to be taking that power. Putting it into that battery and then charging your e-bike battery off of that probably and, you know, unless you want like, because once you have a solar panel and then it's going directly into another, into like your e-bike battery. Like any inconsistently inconsistency in the In the wattage, can like affect how that charges and stuff. So yeah.
[00:41:02] Tayson: It just sounds like a heavy set us more. Yeah, yeah, probably. When I scenarios just
[00:41:09] Sam: simply to just ride your bike.
[00:41:11] Tayson: Just right. Yeah. So what have you? I mean, you mentioned that you've already done the bike packing this year? What else do you have going on? I mean, you just got through this Sprint. Well, I guess. Let me ask this too. So you've been you've been riding in the outdoor space for three years. But you've continued to be this big. I'll call it a full-time Adventure. How does that go? Like, like is the dream is the dream here that like you're You're writing like like not riding your bike but like writing with a pencil on trail about your experience is or is it like you just go out? and be on your experiences and then you come home and write about it like, Maybe walk me through a little bit of just like, what a
[00:41:57] Tayson: work-life balance is for someone, like you.
[00:42:00] Sam: Sure. Yeah. I mean so, I guess ideally, it would be like, go have an experience and then like, Afterwards like, you know, you have some notes and then you write about it. And like kind of just be doing that a bunch like go back and forth, like go out, have a great experience documenting as much as you can. Like I love taking pictures and shooting videos when I'm out there but now like you know, journaling every night like this and then like coming home and typing it up. but, you know, and then like, but then I'll get home and then I'll like, All you know, then I'll do some then I'll like do some more work like right for, right. Some Write some content for the outdoor industry, whatever, whatever that is. And then I'll
[00:42:51] Sam: like, you know, after after a big sprint of doing that, I'll go back out there and do another trip and I'm always like, skiing more more trips and my Yeah, it's always kind of like scheming trips and you're never not. Working entirely because like sometimes I'm like testing some gear or at least like thinking about like what else where I'm gonna get like my next like good writing gig and stuff like that and now like my all my you know like my personal social media channels have sort of turned into like a marketing. You know, like a marketing channel for like getting like writing clients and stuff. So I'm still honestly still figuring it out. And I think I'm getting getting the hang of it, but yeah, like it's been It's been a few years.
[00:43:42] Sam: This is really the first. I'm coming. I'm in, I'm in my second year of doing it like as my only job. For a while. I was kind of doing it while. Also working in a bike shop part-time and yeah, I'm still figuring it out but I'm figuring out the balance and yeah. Learning every day. So is it
[00:44:06] Tayson: really common for you to come back and and work for like a month or two like you said and then go back out on on trail for like like do you kind of do it in blocks like that as like how often or how the blocks?
[00:44:21] Sam: yeah, I I mean I try to do it in blocks and then like So that I could kind of just go out and enjoy myself. Like, have like an experience where I'm not like always thinking like oh man, I got I have these, you know, this list of things that I need need to do in the next two weeks. But you know, there's some of that too. Like it's not all like last summer. I did a lot of like Two to three day trips and then come home and like turn out of work and then go back out for a couple days. Come back home. Churn out of work. Keep doing that. So, But you know, like the grand enchantment Trail so that was like another, that was like a month and a half where
[00:45:06] Sam: I didn't work at all. So you know,
[00:45:10] Tayson: explain that one for people. What was that?
[00:45:13] Sam: Oh, that one goes from Phoenix to Albuquerque. in my Arizona and New Mexico and it's about five. What is it like 700 miles like 700 miles. That's a good amount of like bushwhacking through the desert. It's really really rugged and really cool and rewarding but very pretty pretty challenging. Yeah.
[00:45:36] Tayson: Now it seems like you came from Chicago and then you just love the desert. Now, like you
[00:45:43] Sam: between bike, I love the desert. It's so good. I'm probably gonna end up. With a home base. And Arizona or maybe even like Utah, and the next or New Mexico in the next couple years like I, it's my like, my like longer longer kind of work-life balance thing, it's 10 to be like kind of spending more time. At home during like the winter when it's when you know days are longer. Colder, all those things. So it's like so sort of makes sense for my lifestyle to have that home be someplace that I could go. and like, go on trail runs and backpacking trips. All winter long and like packing trip and I could do that. I did that for like two months. This winter in Arizona, and it was awesome and I was just living
[00:46:36] Sam: out of my element at that time but maybe I'll maybe I'll upgrade the living situation at some point, even Yeah,
[00:46:43] Tayson: I was actually just hanging out with a handful of people from Colorado and they're all talking about like skiing all winter long and like and I saw after a while like man maybe I should be dealing a lot more skiing. Maybe I need to get into that but I feel like where we were our headquarters are here in Cedar City. We can be 45 minutes to a ski Resort or I can be 45 minutes to the desert, right? Yeah. So it's it's seems like over the past handful of years, I've just been gravitating towards 45 minutes into the desert. And and yeah, doing the things that I enjoy kind of year-round, whatever those are. So that is it. There's there's a lot of Attraction. I think to the desert to just with how much more
[00:47:28] Tayson: accessible it is. Yeah, like in the middle of summer, it's not the best but like in the Three Seasons, Four Seasons scenarios, it just allows you to do what you love year round. Really. So it's There's, I can see how you fall in love with it for sure. Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:47:42] Sam: And like something like that. Oh man, the desert by where you are. Just incredible like the The rocks are just out of like otherworldly and then the sunsets and sunrises are incredible and then that like desert mountains are so cool. They're like big and like there's a ton of relief and like, Like they're so Rocky and Rocky it's really fun. They're just all
[00:48:11] Tayson: I love them. Yeah. No, I'm right there with you. It is. I mean, I Love Actually to bring people out here that have never spent much time in the desert. Because I like the consistent thing that I feel like they say is just like man, I feel like I'm Walking on Mars right now. Like, I don't know where I'm at. Yeah, I've never just never seen anything like, you know, and and that's, that's a lot of fun to me. One to keep me from ever taking it for granted, but Yeah, it's just true though. It's just true. It's like this is just such unique formation everywhere. You look right? So
[00:48:47] Sam: and like some of the most biodiverse like, ecosystems in the world are deserts like the Sonoran Desert has more plants than Like any, any other ecosystem? I'm pretty sure I could. And then like people have this idea of the desert that it's just like devoid of Life In A Wasteland, but it's absolutely not. And like life there like has learned to To thrive in these really harsh environments, and I think that's really really special.
[00:49:18] Tayson: Yeah. I I totally agree. I think one of my I like on this podcast. Specially, I talk a lot about hiking, big miles and seeing all sorts of country, but I mean, I love to just sit too. I can. Oh, yeah, there and just watch nature forever and sometimes. So, sometimes I think about this, like, I I think about like, okay, I need to be successful in a career to make money to, you know, maybe one day, I'll buy a cabin and I'll sit on the porch of the cab and all enjoy. Solitude and lack of busyness. And every time I tell myself that I'm like, it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Because because, like I currently I can backpack anywhere I want, I have a travel trailer that I take my family camping
[00:50:08] Tayson: in all the time. It's like I can pull that. To millions and millions of public land Acres. And sit there next to the trailer and watch the same thing today. And and I think it's just really common as humans to get in this rat race of things, right. Where it's just all you build for tomorrow. Yeah, you work for retirement. Like, I talked to my parents all the time. Like quit working for retirement. Like you guys need to take more time now, you know, like you So like I feel like I'm better than my parents. But then I look at guys like you and I'm like, I'm still not enjoying the journey nearly as much as I should be. And I think anyone who's listening, this could probably relate to that, to some extent. So
[00:50:49] Tayson: I, I'd love to hear I guess. Just in your mind why you choose to do what you do and what it is to live this minimalist lifestyle. Because like you mentioned and and well maybe we haven't covered enough. You live a pretty minimalist lifestyle. I from my understanding of you you don't acquire and retain. A lot of things you stay very mobile at times. I have no idea how many nights you know you sleep out of your car and just traveling around. But you know, I guess just explain a little bit of your thought and the benefits of living this more minimalist
[00:51:25] Sam: lifestyle. Very. Yeah. I mean I think there's like so much more to life than Like accumulating. A lot of things that we could be comfortable one day at like, some indeterminate point in the future when we can retire. Like, if you just live simply you can like my My Philosophy is like live simply and then you can kind of be, you know, semi-retired. All the time. And, you know, I got I like, I retire like, every couple months or a month or two and like what, you know, have have a like a minimalist enough life that I could kind of make that work. I could like you know, move into a place and then like sublease my room and or just like put the amount of stuff that I have in storage or just like
[00:52:13] Sam: put it all in my car and Leave and then go go and like, enjoy that same. Like I let you know, like that iconic. Backyard that you can have with that cabin that you say about your whole life for by just singing, you know, going out some place on plopping down some public land and sitting on the tailgate in my car and watching the sunset and cooking, a simple dinner on a camp stove. You know, that's Pretty magical. but, you know, there's There's pros and cons to all of it. And I'm not saying like this is the only way, but it's the way that I'm kind of finding that works for me.
[00:52:56] Tayson: Well, let me let me ask this because I think one of the best ways to view life is to try to fast forward life and then Look Backwards. So like let's say we fast forward your life, Sam, 10 years down the road. And if you were to turn around and look backwards, Would you have regrets living this way?
[00:53:17] Sam: Absolutely not. No. I would never graduate. But I mean, I think that some people might say that I should have regrets because I, you know, 10 years from now, I probably still won't like Own very many like worldly things that have value. And like, you know, the things that we know, we're kind of taught that we should. We should be like, working towards. I probably won't own any of that, but I will have like lived a very full life and have like, Tons and tons of experience. And I think those are more more infinitely, more valuable than like, a house that you have a mortgage on for instance, Not that I wouldn't. Appreciate like some housing stability. Every once in a while too.
[00:54:03] Tayson: Yeah. No, I think I think it's really interesting because I I'm remembering I don't know if it's a quote or a study that I read that just talked about how To believe it was a nurse was was just always asking people. In a nursing home as they were coming to the end of their life. Like what they regretted the most and most of them said that, you know, they wished they'd worked less essentially. Yeah, that was like, one of their biggest regrets in life was just working too much. and, I I have, it's such an interesting Dynamic, right? Because In a lot of ways like I'm an employee, you're right? So, it's like, I need prayers work. I can't be sitting here like all this podcast. Be like, all right, everyone, we don't need to
[00:54:51] Tayson: work anymore, like, you know, Come and Go. Please. but at the same time, I think there is just there's so much value in in the experience that you can make and optimizing those. And, you know, I focus a lot on getting the most out of weekends or three-day weekends and things like that. You, I do think that that's, and I think what's interesting is, is, you know, you've, you're a wine to 100 years in history and you, you had to work, like, it wasn't like you have the option to take vacations, or whatever, right? It was like, you had to work to provide food Water Shelter, Clothing and now it's like we work, but we work extra hard to provide better food, you know, better shelters, better clothes.
[00:55:48] Sam: More clothes than we need. More a whole,
[00:55:51] Tayson: a whole lot more. Especially, I know you're not married, Sam. But if you were, you would know the definition of more clothes than you need.
[00:55:58] Sam: I mean, once you start like, yeah, I believe you. Like once you like even I have more clothes than I need. Because when my friends get married, I need to wear something other than, like a t-shirt and the dirty hat that I wear all the time and these cutoff shorts packing sandals. Yeah, right.
[00:56:20] Tayson: Yeah, no. It's it's, it's definitely a fascinating thing. And I think that everyone should take time to think about that, you know, as much as you can and there's choices, right? It's like well, if you choose to try to take more time off like you're not gonna make as much money, you're not gonna like because I think that's the problem. Is everyone wants both side of it, right? Yeah. They want progression in their career. They want more money, but they also want more time off. And it's like, well, Usually don't go super hand in hand, you get. To you get to choose one as more of a priority than the other a lot of times. But I think it is worth just constantly thinking about those kind of questions and and playing those out for
[00:57:00] Tayson: sure. Okay, well this has been awesome man. I've really enjoyed this. I enjoyed getting into some of these trains of thoughts. You've made me think a little more about bike packing. I think that would be something that would be a lot of fun and I and where it's almost my backyard to get into some really great bike packing country. Oh, absolutely. It's something I probably need to need to try at some point and give it a go. But is there anything that I didn't ask you about that? That you you want to share the cheer? Your wealth of knowledge and experience is. So I know you've got Tons to share.
