[00:00:00] Tayson: Everybody welcome back to the live ultralight podcast powered by outdoor vitals. Today, we have a special episode because we're literally out in nature, not recording in our, in our home office or over Zoom or anything like that and we've just come off of a trail. So we've got Justin Outdoors here that's been out backpacking with us and then we've got the the old timer Brigham just Stoic as ever. And we're gonna take you through a recent trip that we, I guess we're kind of still on it. We haven't got back into the city yet. I'm sure. Justin's ready for lunch by now and but we just came off the trail and we're gonna walk you through that and then yeah, just have a conversation with Justin as well. So I guess. Are you doing today?
[00:00:45] Tayson: How you guys, feeling right now?
[00:00:47] Justin: Feeling good. The smell. Definitely a test of the fact that we're just just
[00:00:52] Tayson: off Trail. I think the truth is, we're out here. Drying out, trying to get some of the odor down before we go climb in a car together and drive off the mountain but literally get the stink blowing off office. That's the goal right now.
[00:01:04] Brigham: Yeah, we're we'll be going to lunch after this and we'll just preemptively apologize to wherever we're going.
[00:01:12] Tayson: Yeah I think and I think that a test just what the trip was. It was a little exerting, it wasn't super high mileage. I believe I tracked about 25 miles. It's like a nine and a half, nine and a half and four. So today but they weren't necessarily the easiest miles. We brought Justin down to get him out of the snow and Canada and then we just took them right back into it. So yeah, let's let's maybe go through A little bit of the trip here as far as what kind of the conditions were where we're at. We came up here to Northern Utah. Into Brigham's old stomping grounds, Brigham grew up in the valley below this area, so we let him plan the trip. Last time we let him do that, but We've had
[00:02:04] Tayson: some records snow this year in Utah. So we're in middle of June and we were getting into a lot of snow so much so that we decided to bring both, you know, spikes for shoes and and snowshoes. And we used a lot of it. So it just is crazy conditions out here. But Brigham maybe walk us through kind of the area and what we're hoping to to go and see on the strip.
[00:02:31] Brigham: Yeah. Justin's flying into, he flew into Salt Lake City. And like Jason said, it's a record snowfall year and so we kind of came to grips with the fact that, you know, some of the places we wanted to take. Justin were there's just no chance to do like a to execute a good backpacking trip to, you know, have him enjoy his time out here. So we got to just need to find a place that have better chance of having a little bit less snow and be, you know, navigable and so be able to have a decent time. So yeah, we came up to Northern Utah and I kind of put together two different routes that we I knew once we kind of got up into the area just by looking at kind of the peaks
[00:03:27] Brigham: of the mountains I have. a decent idea of which route we would need to take and we had to take Plan B just because it's a Would get to a lower peak elevation and just be a lot more manageable. So we were gonna start on day. One, hike up to lake called White Pine Lake and then day two go from that Lake along the trail to another lake called Tony Grove and then follow another Trail kind of just onto another Ridge line that would Take us to where we can't for night two, and even like being very familiar with the area and having an idea of what the snow depth was going to be like, there was still definitely some unexpected. Snow depth conditions.
[00:04:22] Tayson: Yeah, I think in some ways we tried to plan a little bit lower mileage trip, so that we could have time to film, and we've never backpack with Justin. And then, I think it was just about, right, because we got slowed down enough with with the conditions we were, we were seeing for sure it was It was I called them snow mobiles. I mean essentially just
[00:04:45] Justin: Accurate. It's not like the size of ski Moguls like every step is like in and out of little tiny pockets and stuff. Normally my ankles aren't feeling it as much on a hiking trip. But you're always, you're constantly kind of Sure your ankles are locked in and not kind of rolling over and there's lots of times where you're kind of slipping and sliding. And yeah I think that that first day Was a little bit of a surprise for us, we rolled into camp at what seven, seven, thirty pm and fast dinner time. I'm here, like, we had a late late lunch, and it was very filling, but yeah, don't think it was too hungry. But that, yeah, it was a, it was a lot of hiking.
[00:05:26] Brigham: yeah, it's it's just interesting conditions, you know, it's Where we start, it's just green and Lush, there's no snow. It's in the feels like summertime, you know? And you want it to be summer time everywhere. And and just the more the farther up we went just kept getting more and more snow and And so, I kind of adjusting the the mindset. I for me, it took a little bit of a, just a mindset shift or adaptation as we went on because, you know, it's like it's middle of June, you want it to just be nice everywhere, but just adapt and like Taste and said we had. spikes and snowshoes, and They're like rain jackets, you never want to put them on, you know, I mean, it's like you just avoid putting them on as much
[00:06:15] Brigham: as possible. And I definitely was one of those people that avoided as as much as possible. And Yeah.
[00:06:23] Tayson: I think I think one of the benefits though of coming this in these conditions is just the, the lack of people. So yeah, like as we're as we're climbing up there, it was It was like, okay, these conditions are kind of getting worse. The trip is kind of unfolding before our eyes, right? Of like, what is going to be what's gonna be like? And your feet are starting to get a little wet and you're slipping around and stuff. But as we're going up there, you know, it's it's getting more and more beautiful. We're getting into this really cool Basin and just, you know, big, big sheer Rock, Cliffs all around us and then there's this beautiful Lake, but as we talked to you, you're saying like, yeah, in the summertime, there could be, you know,
[00:07:02] Tayson: 50 people up here or more around the little tiny Lake. And so we got up there and we're like, man, we're gonna be the only ones turned out. There is one other small camp that had hiked in from a different Trailhead but really didn't interfere with us and it did feel like we had that Basin completely to ourselves which it's just really cool. And I think that's one thing that Okay, not to say like I don't like backpacking when other people around at all or anything like that. But it's it's really cool and you can get into the Wilderness and into some of these areas and have a little bit more of a individual experience. I guess you could say. So despite the the snow and the slush and the mud that we're kind of
[00:07:41] Tayson: going through, that was to me, the silver lining of it all.
[00:07:46] Justin: Agree. I think that's one of my favorite things about shoulder season in the specialty. Springtime is, you get to areas that are Potentially very popular throughout the summertime and have it. Have it kind of all to yourself and especially when it's kind of that extreme like that, that would be busy. People. There knows, it was nice. That I enjoyed the snow, like I maybe it's the Canadian in me, but I I love having a little bit of snow. I found it kind of just broke things up a bit and it took a trail. That would probably be a fairly easy hike in a summertime and kind of created a new experience. A new challenge for us. Yeah,
[00:08:22] Brigham: I It's a it's it is planning a route for kind of the time that we have and and knowing the snow conditions like just even planning a route that would be, you know, have good scenery. but they have a little element of challenge, you know, because like the the mileage per day like that's You know, when you're able to hike all day, it's really low mileage. So it turned out I think pretty well in that like there were added challenges that kind of made it not like this really soft backpacking trip, you know because A lot of mileage covered walked on on the snow and so that, you know, just presented some good challenge and a lot more physicality for sure.
[00:09:11] Tayson: Yeah. So another element of this trip was we've we've had Justin on the podcast before. So this is your second time on but we really haven't had much of a chance to Have you used any of our gear? And so, it's really that first night was was Justin like doing? The put a lot of trust in us to be like, all right, like we'll pack your bag is essentially, you know, like, we're here's all the stuff and like, we're taking care of and that's never like a fun situation to be in from from a user standpoint because they're like, I don't know this gear I don't know so there's some trust that goes into that you know. And then obviously we get up there and you got you got a couple days with the gear.
[00:09:52] Tayson: So I guess, I guess from a perspective side of that, what was it like coming into this? Of with that uncertainty.
[00:10:00] Justin: I think I I really just limited all expectations as it's kind of like, you know, what? Whatever happens is gonna happen. I I had a good idea like I've listened to the to the outdoor vitals podcast. I've looked at your gear a lot. I had a general idea of what to expect, but that first night, I was it got colder. It was colder at the lake that I think we thought it might get to, and then it dip below freezing and I wasn't quite sure how special with the Sleep System, how an R value of had an early life 3.5 was gonna perform on cold wet ground and then a 30 degree like a quilt that had identified as having a 30 degree kind of temperature rating, how that was all gonna turn out? And
[00:10:45] Justin: then woke up in the morning and was toasty, warm and comfortable and yeah, that was, that was a situation of like being pleasantly, surprised I guess based on Just the gear performing kind of like at its at its kind of Max or what I perceived was gonna be its Max. Yeah
[00:11:01] Tayson: there was there's definitely a look in your eyes. I think going into bed your like the three point five r, value pad and this this ground is like like a swamp. You know, it's really wet and really cold. And and we're all like, yeah, we probably should sleep with our water filters because it's probably gonna freeze the night. And, and so I yeah, there was definitely a look in your eye of like, This might not be my most comfortable night, and I was, I was glad that you had a good experience. And we're, we're not cold or anything. But so day two, we essentially got up. Did some climbing kind of Traverse the top of this mountain? And then we got to a lake and had a really enjoyable lunch but like we still have
[00:11:45] Tayson: ice on the lake essentially like it's still actively melting off and yeah I definitely really enjoyed. That that lunch was one that all I'll definitely remember. I had a had some really good food all. So I tried to bring your own tortilla meal from his packet, Gourmet and it was, it was really good. So I was feeling I was feeling good compared to Justin eating his complete cookie, you know? But Didn't offer him too much. It's their stuff must not been bad for her. Yeah. And then I mean I guess the rest the day, we essentially kind of continued to climb a little bit and just kind of roll up and cross the top of the mountain and then Dropped off and found a really nice protected. Green Green Camp spot. Thankfully you know, no
[00:12:36] Tayson: bugs, no no issues. We did we did expected to be warmer that second night too just by the atmosphere of things. But yeah I mean what were some of the highlights I guess of day two for you guys?
[00:12:47] Justin: for me was was getting up on that Ridge, kind of before we dropped down and seeing you get cross, kind of two different values on either side of you and see and see the different Peaks and everything. That's always some of my favorite hiking is is Ridge walking. So you just get such good panoramic views. It's often kind of like open kind of fun terrain. And that was, that was, that was really neat. Yeah.
[00:13:12] Brigham: yeah, I think terrain and scenery wise, I That's probably my my favorite section of the hike yesterday and the weather. It was like the peak warmth of the day, the sun was out. It was really, really pretty, that's a. That area those basins you're talking about are they are really pretty. And I enjoyed lunch too. Like it was it's a and an unusual lunch scenario for us, where we were the route that we took into, where we stayed. The first night is an unusual route, that most people don't take to get to that Lake. And then where we stopped for lunch was next to a parking lot, like a paved parking lot at this other Lake that most people drive up to for day Recreation and canoeing. But because of the seasonality, you know, we
[00:14:04] Brigham: were just kind of passing through it, but the road to the parking lot had been cleared up enough that there were like people David visitors just up there. And so it's that's a little bit different for us to like, be having lunch in the middle of a hike on a picnic table, next to a parking lot and and other people. But it was it was really nice. Like it was sunny and the Setting was great. We
[00:14:30] Justin: even got some entertainment with people across the lake kind of trying to fight. Yeah. Entertainment slating that we're gonna have to press the SOS and and call for help but it was snowy and people were just going across this really steep side, slope looked really sketchy. If they slip they were going right into the lake and probably having a really tough time getting over. Yeah, we were we were a little bit apprehensive for us.
[00:14:54] Tayson: Yeah for sure. um, so last night is a little bit warmer had, I mean, Good camp spot, breeding enjoyable time. And then this morning got up and just cruised four miles down a really pretty drainage all the way out. Just everything was super green. I think all of us, I was thinking actually, you were thinking about time taking in Vietnam. I was thinking about times hiking in Olympic National Park because it was just that level of green and which is pretty unusual. I would say for, for Utah. Yeah. In the bottoms, it can, it can stay green for a long time, but like all the way up the sides of the hills, it's just really green and really pretty and Yeah. I mean I guess looking back at the trip, that's that's essentially what we
[00:15:35] Tayson: did but I'd like to try to unpack some of that and just go through maybe some of our takeaways from the trip as far as what can be valuable to to listener, right? Whether that's gear related or planning related, or just favorites or Do's or don'ts but maybe so I guess to start off. Was there anything from a planning perspective to take away from this trip going into this? These conditions?
[00:16:01] Brigham: I definitely think having Clear alternate plans. I mean we only had one alternate plan but it was the nice thing is that The person who planted is very familiar. So I'm very familiar with this area but I also You know, also made for the other two, a very a mapped out route. That is very clear and That was also, I wouldn't call it like a downgrade of a route. It's just a great route but that just was going to be a little bit more feasible for us to do. And so I think that was it was important to have and and to be able to, to have, you know, within the crew people that are adaptable and and That don't get flustered by a change of plans in terms of that and then all. So,
[00:16:53] Brigham: because that, I guess the other point I would make is that the knowing the people that you're going to be with and factoring that into the plan. So, you know, so everybody here was physically capable of Going to plan B, but then also adapting to the little bit of unexpected. Conditions in Plan B. Like, we knew there'd be snow but it was maybe a little bit more physical than we thought. And so, You know, when it comes to planning, it's important to keep those things in mind. Like there's always going to be someone expected and maybe plan ahead for the potential need for a little extra physicality and then factor that all into the plan. So that The whole backpacking trip is still like a good plan that everybody's still going to enjoy rather than
[00:17:46] Brigham: like suffer through.
[00:17:50] Justin: I think I yeah. it was someone who knows an area kind of plan and kind of be able to kind of look at, Different approaches to routes, as well as even, even as we're going. Like, you're kind of pointing out like We could have gone got here this way or from that way. And as someone who's usually doing the planning, he was kind of fun to see it from the outside perspective and and just kind of almost be kind of like, brought along and Be that, that kind of part of a trip. And yeah, really, yeah, it was a great, great trip and great great planning.
[00:18:23] Tayson: Yeah. I mean, yeah, we definitely had to call some alternates and it's not a fun position to necessarily be in your position at least for my perspective. Like it's kind of like, taking your hands off the wheel of, you know, you don't necessarily know the root. Exactly. And then for you, like we're saying everything in miles or tracking in kilometers. So you're totally blind, you know, it's like Not a super envious position, but at the same time, I guess if you embrace it kind of just be like, yeah, I'm just, I'm just going. And it's, and it's nice to not be the one in charge at times. I think the things that I took away from a navigation, all standpoint were kind of the importance of Having multiple mapping options on your phone at times,
[00:19:07] Tayson: sometimes. I don't I don't know if we're just not to the day and age yet where like you can just have one mapping service nail everything every time. And so, we did kind of toggle between two different maps and and a part of it was up there was there was new Trail. There was old trail, that is just been made even in the very recent years you could tell. So that was that was something that was it was interesting to take away I think from from a navigational perspective. So okay. So I think we described the the conditions pretty well overnight lows you know, getting to freezing. Then the next night was was like 39 degrees, you know, it's kind of the overnight low.
[00:19:50] Justin: 3 degrees Celsius for Canadians and everyone else.
[00:19:52] Tayson: Please cut that out of the podcast.
[00:19:59] Justin: So
[00:20:01] Tayson: I guess like takeaways maybe from from your perspective. Maybe favorite pieces of gear and piece of gear that you either would have left home or didn't didn't enjoy. See. Favorite piece of gear. We should probably let Justin go first so we don't take any yeah he
[00:20:20] Brigham: sat there for a minute so I didn't want to extend the pause. Usually
[00:20:24] Tayson: I go last time by the time I get my turn it's like I have nothing else that? Yeah
[00:20:28] Brigham: I don't know. I always feel silly talking about favorite pieces of gear. I designed it all and I'm gonna go. My favorite child is. I'm gonna go with. Backpack. so there's some interesting, we took some contingency items like snowshoes and spikes, you know, and that adds a few pounds of weight and Like I never I never even sell like at a disadvantage or maybe it slightly more encumbered by the things. The extra things that I was needing to back and so you know our I already like the pack and I know all about it already but it's that was probably the favorite piece of gear and I don't know if there's anything I would have I mean. I didn't even use the spikes. But I wouldn't say that I would have left them home for
[00:21:23] Brigham: being wanting to be adaptable and be able to do what we needed to do. Like, I'm glad I had them. It's important. I thought it was important to have the option. I don't know of anything I would Leave at home. I used every every piece that I that I took
[00:21:41] Justin: I think, I think I'll start with what I Would have left at home because I think like, I was thinking, maybe it would be the snowshoes because I didn't I didn't use the snowshoes at all, the entire trip, but I probably would have like, looking back. I would brought them still Because this time of year and different conditions, you never know, and having or not having snow shoes can be the difference bigger be between meal. They continue on your road or not, I think My my favorite piece of gear is probably, was probably the pack, but I kind of went into the trip with some some expectations of that, that the pack was, was gonna be enjoyable for me, the the future that I wasn't sure about was the side pockets and whether I'd be
[00:22:21] Justin: able to reach water bottle Pockets. You guys are probably getting sick of me, raving about the water bottle pockets on the side, but that was awesome to carry weight well but was what was surprising for me was was the sleeping pad I didn't have. like, really high expectations, I guess for the sleeping pad, I think you guys kind of downplay it a bit sometimes and I was surprised at how warm it was, it hasn't already 3.5, but I found that it slept warmer than that in the conditions that that we are in and that's kind of Just you I've been kind of thinking this for a while and and talking about it on my channel and podcast that the SDM standard is a good starting point, but it doesn't give you the whole picture and
[00:23:00] Justin: sometimes pads will perform differently once you get to them in the field. And that's what the Oblivion did. And It was comfortable as well. I wasn't sure. You never know really know what Comfort is gonna be like on a pad. And for me a big as a side sleeper, big factor is whether my arms fall asleep when I'm laying on my side and and they didn't and that's that's a plus. I had some good sleeps
[00:23:20] Tayson: It's good. You have a least favorite piece. Again, least something or just now nothing come to mind.
[00:23:27] Justin: Like I I enjoyed the windbreaker. So like, when we stopped for lunch, it was great to have, but I think I probably could have used the range jacket. As as a windbreaker in that kind of scenario. I think that's that's just my kind of unfamiliar with windbreakers to and how they fit into my systems.
[00:23:45] Tayson: For me, I would say. Are a piece here that I end up using a lot and was really happy with was the spikes. So Brigham, did put on his baby elk on baby snowshoes. He took like the extender off of his so they were very small and more manageable than like what me and Justin were packing. And so I ended up using the spikes and really enjoyed them. I don't have a lot of use with spikes, so was quite happy with those. From. A gear. I didn't use like I didn't use the Snowshoe so like I like that would be one of its like oh maybe I didn't need to bring those but yeah, they're not. I really did. I used all of it? I would kind of. Secondly, use suggest I did bring one
[00:24:28] Tayson: breaker and a rain jacket. Probably could have got away with just the rain jacket. For the most part we were able to I mean it's kind of these weird conditions for your literally hiking through snow but you just have like an altitude hoodie on like and you were you were fine for 90% of the day. So Yeah, that was that was definitely one. I didn't I again, I think it's maybe it's maybe it's a good thing but I don't know if I have a lot more that I would have of left at home. So,
[00:24:57] Brigham: So I will point out Justin didn't fly here with snowshoes. Yeah, I did, I spent a bit of time walking behind Justin and I spent a bit of time feeling bad, Wait, we did what? We could. So Dustin, took my mom's snowshoes. That doesn't mean they're crappy snowshoes, but they're like, they're kind of old, they're big long heavy so like You know, a gear
[00:25:25] Tayson: had to get those shoes. Maybe. It was like the most nice expensive snow. She's sitting in a closet at home. And yeah, we're
[00:25:32] Brigham: like here you go.
[00:25:33] Tayson: Here's these stainless steel hunks of
[00:25:36] Brigham: metal. Just yeah.
[00:25:39] Justin: It was good for the other test. The the weight capacity of the cs40 pack, I was able to strap an extra five or six pounds on there, I never five, or six pounds, I should have, like, I
[00:25:50] Brigham: swear, those are still for, I don't know that those are aluminum frame. They might be still friends. I,
[00:25:57] Tayson: I'm gonna have to pick him up and see how heavy, because they, because you already had, like, more camera gear than us and shorter legs than us and all that stuff. Well, I think that that's a pretty good cap on the the trip itself but I don't just some other things. I think that are that are interesting to know is It was really interesting to backpack with you Justin, and, and see your level of attention to detail. So, you're level of questioning, you know, going into products and and just your your desire for knowledge is so high and I'm curious where that comes from and and what kind of keeps that fire alive for you
[00:26:42] Justin: And I think this is a cool trip for me for like I've never gone on a trip with the people who design and make the gear. So it was Experienced be able to. try something out and then go ask a question try to kind of ask questions and like I pitch my tent and then you came around and kind of gave me some pointers on on how I can maybe tweak the the pitch and stuff like that and That's the phenomenal experience. I'm really glad. I was able to have that and I think that's your question, where the kind of curiosity comes from. I think it, it stems from just, like, I guess you just go back to Childhood, and it's just been, In and I got from my parents, a genetic thing where they're
[00:27:21] Justin: always questioning and searching out knowledge and from a, from a young age I've been doing that playing with. I, I have a people would describe my brain as kind of being an engineer's brained and always trying to look at problems, solve the problems and look at ways to men and Max. Scenarios. So, in order to do that, you have to be kind of looking at things with an analytic, analytical lens. And yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure if it's if I've developed if it's developed more over the years or if it's kind of just stayed constant but it's definitely Expanded in in the the amount as you get more knowledge, you just ask more questions. I feel like and that's that's the case with me.
[00:28:03] Brigham: Yeah, I I think it's a great attribute, you know? Of yours, you know, to your credit. I think it's a Fits you really well. And and from my perspective, I really enjoyed you know, getting out here and having you come with us and kind of Validating a little bit of how like I anticipated you would be as a person and as a gear user, a Backpacker and somebody that that critiques and analyzes gear. So from my perspective, I'm a little bit of a gatekeeper about Who. Who was the right person to be like testing or gear. Okay. And there's there's just a certain type of person out there that I'm I when I recognized like that person is, is gonna be really kind of asking a lot of questions in the right questions and knowing
[00:29:08] Brigham: why to ask those questions like like I kind of have a Keen Eye for those types of people. And I'm I'm always like on, you know, kind of the the lookout for them and so it was, you know, I would, I would describe you that way. And so, you know, for my perspective it's it was fun to interact. And to just kind of Try to just. Be more observing of just watching you and listening and and so yeah. It was it was it was cool. How
[00:29:36] Justin: was that for you guys? Like how? Because the first time testing your gear. I've never used outer battles gear before and you guys probably knew before before we went on this trip that like I come into things with kind of like a questioning critical. I was were you guys nervous before the trip? Or and then during the trip was it was it ever kind of awkward for you at all?
[00:29:59] Tayson: I don't, I don't think so like I think I probably came in. think one of the attributes that that's helpful, is that We might like, we do everything, we can to build the best possible gear for our specific Avatar. And I don't think we have any illusions that that every piece of gear, we offer is the number one in its category for every single Avatar. And so my my perspective was gonna be that you were gonna have a few of the products you really like and a few of them that you would have good experiences with. But, you know, maybe still prefer a different XYZ product and so that was like, I think my perspective of it and I wasn't, I wasn't you nervous or scared in that sense, but Yeah. Like I I thought
[00:30:48] Tayson: you'd really enjoyed the backpack and it seems like you really did and stuff, but maybe when it comes to, from what I, from what I've seen of your reviews and stuff maybe when it came to say the 40s you know you use single trekking, pole tents or maybe there's other ones that you've really talked highly of and so I didn't know how well you would drive in bond with some. So that's kind of where I was out as just maybe trying to come in with the realistic perception. I would say that there's always like You know, you want everything to go perfect, you know, and and so, there's always gonna be like, who knows? Maybe falls falls on a log and punches a hole through something. And, and You know, like comes in with like
[00:31:29] Tayson: that. Well, that wasn't durable enough, you know. But I think for the, you know, we know that's not you and and so I didn't expect that out of you.
[00:31:37] Brigham: yeah, I'd say I didn't have any any nervousness or you know any any like hidden reservation about anything and I think for me, I would relate it more to more of an exciting opportunity, you know, to get, you know, To get out in the field with you using, you know, our products knowing how you use your products, how you use your gear and how you think about it? And yeah, it was yeah just more of a bit of a, Feeling of excitement for you to have the opportunity and to have the opportunity to just observe your experience with it. So,
[00:32:20] Tayson: from from time taking people on trial too. I think almost more of the nervousness of taking people on Trellis is not knowing Like their physical capabilities, or their knowledge capabilities. And so, I would say coming into this one that was like, an easy box to check to fill confident, you know, and to be like yeah we're gonna be just fine, you know, so that that lowered I think any stresses too. But so You kind of pulling back again to just your level of digging into products. Let's say someone's watching this, you know, they're, they're an avid Backpacker consumer, where do you feel like people have the most to gain by becoming much more knowledgeable about the gear? You know, obviously, you dig into every, I mean, down to, we had, we had conversations at least
[00:33:09] Tayson: about water filters, right? I mean, just every little piece, we're, we're digging into, and that's kind of where we like to live, but if you're like a newer Backpacker, that's starting to become more Avid, starting to really dig in where you think people have the most to gain by an investment of their time and knowledge.
[00:33:27] Justin: I think it's difficult question because I think that some products get really, really technical. I think sleeping pads and getting a good night sleep. Like we talked about this on trail, how like we all prioritize getting a good night's sleep and and that can really be the Difference Maker on a trip on whether you enjoy it or or don't enjoy it. So I think having some education around what constitutes a sleeping pad being warm and maybe some of the technologies that might lead to a pad being warmer in the field than the ASTM standard and what sort of kind of baffling Technologies you're looking at and even just simple things like like Whit. Some people might not know that there's different whites of sleeping pads out there. But I find that I sleep way better
[00:34:09] Justin: on 25 inch wide sleeping pad than a 20 inch wide seating pad. So, even even just some of that basic knowledge, I think, is, Really important with with regards to sleeping pads. And a lot of a lot has changed with sleep systems. I think, over the last Five years. So if you're kind of like, like if I base my knowledge on what like my dad was telling me or something like that for what to get for Sleep System, it'd be completely different than Compared to when he was my age for example.
[00:34:39] Tayson: Yeah, I could just agree with that. One of the things that bugs me or kind of keeps keeps me up at night. The most is, when I talk to people that have tried backpacking, you know, they'll tell me a story like, oh, I went backpacking. One time and I froze and I'll never go back, right? And A big part of that is, you know, pads and sleep systems in general. But I would probably say that even though the people that ride Us in from a customer service standpoint that maybe claim that a bag didn't sleep as warm as the rating. You know, our first question to them is what's what we're sleeping on? Well, our value of pad or what pad was it Etc? And you know 80% of the time with that. It's so
[00:35:20] Tayson: I was on an air mattress or I was on you know, something has no insulative properties. And so I think as you peel back the layers, a pad really is a super critical piece to get right? And if you're watching this you know Justin does a fantastic job of reviewing, a lot of pads in real world conditions and and can definitely help you find a Path that you're needs that. You know, actually performs, right? Because I actually got a pad this last year. In a giveaway of all the giveaways, I win. I win a Sleep System giveaway from this. This other brand and the pad when it showed up to me, claimed in our value, that was five r value over. What an ASTM standard is for the same pad. And if you had just
[00:36:02] Tayson: gone off of that as a face value of how to miserable experience in the backcountry. And so fact, checking that through through sources, like Justin's channel is is Absolutely a great place to go with things.
[00:36:14] Justin: That's why I think a lot of the car, I really have a lot of content about pads and it's because I, I think it's should be a priority for people. And the more information, the better we're somethings are going to be a little bit more individualistic like shoes. I don't review a lot of shoes because everyone's puts different, and everyone's gonna have a different experience with with different Footwear butt pads. Are more constant and I think are very important.
[00:36:39] Tayson: Well, I think we're gonna call this. We're starting to get a little bit of wind. We may get a little bit of rain here soon. Really appreciate you coming on the trail with us. Justin, having some faith in us to take you on a decent hike and, you know, keep you alive and comfortable. So again just appreciate what you do with your channel. Obviously, we can we can finally adjusting Outdoors on YouTube and the gear priority podcast. It's got some really great in-depth conversations on there. So go check that out. And in fact, we just recorded one so you can find me and bring them on there, as well talking, which will be, which will be good as well. So, yeah. Thanks again, I guess for, for coming out in any, any final thoughts, for
[00:37:17] Tayson: our, for people listening.
[00:37:18] Justin: I just really appreciate the opportunity of getting out here with you guys and chatting, and being able to talk about your gear with you, with you there and it's, it's been a blast and a couple podcasts recorded and they've been a lot of fun as well. We really appreciate you
[00:37:31] Tayson: coming out here on the trail with this Justin for everyone listening. Hope you guys got a lot out of this. If you have any questions on the product, feel free to reach out to us or to go check it out. At vitals.com with that, make sure you guys have rated our podcast. That really helps us out, make sure you subscribe, and we'll catch you guys in a future episode.
