[00:00:00] Tayson: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Live Ultralight Podcast powered by Outdoor Vitals. This podcast is all about getting you outdoors more comfortably and more confidently so that you can disconnect from this crazy world that we're in and reconnect with yourselves in the vital outdoors. Today, we had a special guest. This is Maggie Slepian. Maggie is a Montana based writer and editor with a decade of gear testing experience. She's an avid backpacker, bikepacker, climber, horseback rider, horse stunt rider, as well as a skier and mountain biker. Maggie has covered thousands of miles in long distance trails. She's a thru -hiker and recently did a massive trip on her bike, which we will talk about in this episode. As a writer, she's also been featured in Outside Runners World and Backpacker Magazine and a ton of other publications which we cover in this episode. In this episode, I interview Maggie. We talk about a very recent trip to her where she's bikepacking the Great Divide mountain bike route.
[00:01:00] Tayson: I had to get that right, which follows closely along with the CDT. This is her first trip. It's really interesting to get a more entry level bikepacker's experience of doing a massive trail, especially someone who's also thru -hiked. I really enjoyed the conversation there. It obviously ends with a bit of a twist because she didn't quite finish at this time due to some events that occurred. Make sure to listen into this. It's interesting. I keep interviewing more and more people that are doing bikepacking. It might be something that I have to give some thought, some real consideration to, if for nothing else, to open up some more routes that I can do in the five day windows that's a little bit easier for me to get out away from the office and from my growing family. Really, really fun. It's fun to talk to her about just riding in the outdoors and, again, horse stunt riding for movies. Just a totally interesting person, so dynamic, so fun. Really appreciated her coming on.
[00:02:07] Tayson: I think you guys will love this episode with Maggie Slepian. Well, Maggie, it's good to have you on the podcast. It's been a minute since we've got to talk. Last May, we were down in Zion National Park doing some backcountry backpacking, which is where I got to meet you and get to know you a little bit. I found out you're what I would call a power hiker. You were cruising on the trail. We were covering some big miles that day and just catching some amazing views. Good to catch back up with you.
[00:02:37] Maggie: Great to be here. Thanks, Tayson.
[00:02:40] Tayson: Knowing you, you haven't been sitting around, though. In fact, it sounds like you just got off the trail pretty recently, right? You were doing some bikepacking. I'd love to hear more of how you got onto that trail and how things went.
[00:02:56] Maggie: Sure, from the beginning?
[00:02:59] Tayson: Yeah, I want to hear from the beginning because I think bikepacking, this is your first bikepacking adventure, right?
[00:03:05] Maggie: Yeah, for the most part. A couple of years ago, a friend and I attacked our full suspension mountain bikes by using ratchet straps and stuff sacks and ratchet strapping our stuff sacks with our gear onto our full suspension mountain bikes. We had a pretty successful, we did 110 miles in a day and a half. We did it overnight. Basically, we got back the next morning. We're really confident because we covered good miles on our full suspension bikes on a route that did not need a mountain bike, but it's all that we had up by Whitefish, Montana. We were pretty confident. We took the bikes later that season with the ratchet straps and the stuff sacks. The goofy looking setup down to Colorado to do another overnight route that was shorter, 77 miles, but had a good amount of vert. We drove 12 hours down to the start of this route in Colorado and we bailed on the first climb because we just could not do it physically.
[00:04:04] Maggie: I remember it was the first thing I've ever actively quit. There's no way we could do this type of thing. We didn't give ourselves nearly enough time. We were halfway through the first climb. We were maybe 1 ,500 feet into the first 3 ,000 foot climb on these really heavy bikes. We have all these spandex leathery clad or leathery spandex clad road bikers down in Boulder just blowing passes on road bikes. I was lying on my side in a pull out on the side of the road going up this mountain road outside Boulder 90 degrees. We quit and they're asking, are you okay? I was like, just move along. That was my first experience with bike packing a couple years ago. Since then, I've had one or two successful overnight bike trips, but never anything like never any actual bike packing.
[00:04:56] Maggie: Switch my setup up every time and then I finally kind of got a bike bag set up this past summer or I guess like earlier this summer and streamlined, my setup got rid of the panniers, got rid of the stuff sacks, got rid of most of the ratchet straps. And
[00:05:13] Tayson: yes. So wait. Wait, so how are you doing this before? Were you just wearing a big bigger backpack or how are you attaching things about like bike packing? Accessories.
[00:05:23] Maggie: So when I was, when we had everything kind of just fumbled together, I had a stuff sack that I tied to my handlebars. I had a seat post rack that, I think Mike Messengers used that I attached to my seat post and then tied another stuff to that and
[00:05:38] Tayson: dangling underneath the pole type of thing.
[00:05:41] Maggie: It was, yeah, it was not super secure and then I wore backpack. It was? I had pictures. I looked so proud of my first Trip. We actually we ran into the first time. I heard about the Great Divide actually was on this Whitefish overnight. Not the one that we fail in Colorado, but the Whitefish one that we succeeded at and we saw this guy We were heading probably North and he was heading south, and he had a legit setup and he had maps in the clear cover, and he had what? I now know is like a Revelate Sweetroll, which is more secure bag that goes on your handlebars and it's actually built for this and he had a cool extreme line setup. He's a great writing, a Great Divide. And I started in bath and we're like, oh, we started like 30 miles that way, and we're falling apart and he looks so Good. He's in Mexico. We're writing a loop over to be back in town tomorrow getting pizza.
[00:06:40] Maggie: And I just kind of like my first experience here about the Appalachian Trail when I was doing like a three-day trip with my dad and the white mountain and I was like wait this goes that far? The thing that we're on goes so far. So it was it was cool to kind of experience. Another like little light bulb moment with my goofy looking mountain bike.
[00:06:57] Tayson: That's the interesting thing about bike packing to me. So we were just out on the Colorado Trail and we're passing a lot of bike Packers in the San Juan's and this Yeah, this one kid he was he was die hard. He was doing 75 miles a day on the trail. He was like only seven days in and just crushing it and just got me thinking I'm like he's hitting a town every day. You know what I mean? Like he's getting pizza every day like this. Different way to experience, I mean for one thing a Long Trail but yeah, it is it is pretty captivating to be like yeah you want pizza today? You want a burger like every day you're out in the mountains and doing that.
[00:07:33] Maggie: Totally. Yeah, the amount of ground you can cover is That's kind of what was more not like the most, but it was definitely an appealing aspect of taking on The Great Divide on a bike was okay, we can do between 15 and 75 miles a day. Not off the couch really but like without really much training on my partner and I are, you know, we take like a decent Baseline Fitness, but nothing extreme and the extreme people are starting out doing 75 plus a day and I'm not extreme, but we're still aside from like some there were definitely some more remote sections that we went through the Great Basin and then a lot of New Mexico, but you
[00:08:08] Tayson: describe. Yeah, maybe describe the what the trail is so people kind of understand where does it start? Where does it end? What kind of mileage it is?
[00:08:18] Maggie: Yeah, so the route that I'm talking about is The Great Divide mountain bike route, and it's kind of known as one of the premiere off off pavement, like off front country bike routes in the country. Maybe in the world is one of the first and it's the adventure Cycling. Association is through the people who developed in kind of routed it and they had these incredible Maps that's that we used on the route. So to the Mexico border and in Banff Canada, it kind of follows the Continental Divide, it parallels the CDT, so the Continental Divide trail, that people backpack and intersects with some of the same towns, and if you look on the map, it actually intersects with the trailer at some places. So sometimes you're following the same two tracks, the same four wheel drive Road, sometimes the same page section as the CDT and we did end up seeing some CDT hikers actually who had to take some alternates.
[00:09:05] Maggie: And so if the CDT hikers get snowed out of the really high peaks, they will occasionally jump down and they will do the Great Divide mountain bike route. Alternate on foot which looked on did not seem fun to be doing some of those alternatives on foot because we're caring like ten or 12 miles an hour and sometimes just as well as starches. Like so boring Our foot. and so basically what it does is it follows the CDT but it's you're able to do it on a gravel bike so Matt and I, my partner and I, both had rigid drop bar bikes and so Really, not that much technical. Some of the writing in New Mexico, felt a little bit tricky and then up in Montana, which we didn't get to, which I will explain in a little bit, which I've actually I've ridden. I've ridden a lot of it in Montana on different trips, but this trip this trip was cut short which we'll get it.
[00:09:55] Maggie: But yeah, so it's mostly on Problem and dirt road some pavement. I think it's going to get this wrong but 67% pavement and then whatever the rest of 100 is oh no, I'm sorry. 27% off-road like dirt gravel single track, very little single track, and then the other 30% is paved. So you are in pavement sometimes, but most of it, most of it is national forest and BLM land and to track.
[00:10:24] Tayson: So what what was like the most attractive part of this Trail for you to sign a month or two year life away to try this? I'm assuming a month. I don't know.
[00:10:34] Maggie: Yeah, yes. So the goal was two months on it to get is 2700 miles. I figured out doing in the 50s per day and increase mileage into the 70s or kind of wherever whatever, whatever condition Ted Winn surface elevation gain per day would allow and my body. Obviously, And the thing that seemed the most appealing was I can cover a similar distance as one of the Triple Crown Trails but I don't have to sacrifice, I'm sorry not sacrifice. I don't have to this I know I know that really in the mood to do a six months to be honest, I don't have to a lot six months of my life, my life and I can cover a huge part of the country and also it was something I've never done. Was was an excited bike packing trip. I've never ridden this bike for that many miles. I've never done more than two days at a time on a bike with bags on it.
[00:11:26] Maggie: I've never ridden like a more streamlined bike bag racing setup before racing set up being like how lightweight we were. As, you know, I love my weight gear and travel light because it makes my life easier in the back country. And yes, so it just seemed like this would be a cool adventure to do. I feel like I've covered good amount of ground on foot, on both on, you know, six months trails and 10-day trails and two months trails and so it was just something totally different to see if I could do it.
[00:11:55] Tayson: Yeah, yeah, no. It's, it's got to have a whole different set of challenges. Just keep you on your toes, all that kind of thing, especially when you've already through hiked, you've done a lot of these other aspects of things to do outdoors. So, so you go down, you get dropped off on the doorstep of Mexico and start, right?
[00:12:11] Maggie: Yeah, and then so most people go CDT is kind of, I was talking to some CDT people and it's pretty even right now with Northbound and Southbound on The Great Divide mountain bike route. The majority of people go southbound. So they're going to start in Banff and then head down to Mexico and we at the office at way, kind of based on maps work schedule. He's a guy like and so he had to be back around this time to start his not to start like the work a little bit this season. So we and we figured it would also be easier to get back home where we live in Montana. If we ended up north as we figure, we take care of the logistical nightmare of getting down there, which it was a nightmare. Traveling with bikes is just oh my God I'm just I'm used to traveling with a backpack and traveling with Mike's is just terrible. And so, yeah.
[00:13:01] Tayson: Are you trying to get like buses and shuttles down there? Is that why it's terrible or
[00:13:04] Maggie: me? Just go, let's just go. We also we're not super experienced Staples and so They took my bike apart or the bike shop. Took my bike apart and shipped it through this third-party shipping thing. I had so many Logistics. I hired a shuttle to pick us up at this place. We flew to El Paso Texas. We had the bike ship before which I didn't know if I was gonna be able to put my bike back together. I Watched these videos. It was like, mostly correctly. I, I didn't. Yeah, I was on this big descent and my handlebar slipped upside down because someone didn't tighten them all up. This was, it was almost a comedy of errors. I can't believe, you know, we did what we did considering how little I really knew about this. It was so much harder than a through like so yeah, we flew from Montana to El Paso. We took a three-hour Greyhound from El Paso to Lordsburg New Mexico. Yeah.
[00:14:00] Maggie: And then but we also when you think about it, you're you're traveling with your bike bags and they're all small and they're all weirdly shaped. We don't have panniers. And so we have frame bags that are trying to get her and they go in your in the triangle on your frame between your top and your bottom tube, we have seat post bags which are also trying yellow shaped and they go under your seat and I'm assuming there's going to be a show notes. I can have pictures of my setup in that just kind of hard to explain and so Yeah, you have your other triangular shape bag and then you have your front roll, which is just as like kind of inconvenient roll bag that strapped onto your front handlebars and then you have a few smaller bags for snacks and water bottles and incidentals and none of those bags are shaped in a way that was convenient for a carry-on.
[00:14:45] Maggie: And so I checked, I bought a duffel bag at Goodwill that I was just gonna leave down in New Mexico because I was like, I don't I need to get my stuff down there and I took the bike separately so I bought a duffel bag to leave at the bike Ranch in hot cheetah, New Mexico. Oh, and then I got, I gave Matt a plastic tote that you put all of his stuff in. So, we checked the toad and we checked the duffle we use one of the weird triangle shaped, like bags of carry-ons, we were our town clothes and our biking clothes on the Plains. And then Matt had to like walk around. El Paso, Texas, holding this coat of all this stuff because we didn't have bags.
[00:15:18] Maggie: And so we just try to like carry it together like walking around, like walking across El Paso, like this one neighborhood area, it was it was so stupid and then we got picked up a couple hours later in Lawrenceburg, and then it was another hour or so, maybe a little less to the hit sheet of bike Ranch and then We left Bozeman at 6 a.m. we are putting our bikes together around 11:00 that night. And then we just gave up and went to sleep and then just putting our bikes together in the morning, it was It was. Real Goofy.
[00:15:53] Tayson: Yeah. Sounds just a lot more, a lot more Logistics to get to that Trailhead. Get started out.
[00:16:02] Maggie: My parents drop me off. Oh, I had a friend drive me. Oh, right here. And then I was like, oh cool. Mad at night know, we were just like completely on our road. Just try to figure out like how do we get ourselves or bags or bikes? Like to Antelope. Well, the new vaccine was like, random, like Outpost in the middle of
[00:16:17] Tayson: nowhere. Yeah,
[00:16:18] Maggie: literally, yeah.
[00:16:19] Tayson: Ought to be the middle
[00:16:20] Maggie: and we'll do it. And for some reason it was just it felt hard.
[00:16:25] Tayson: To get your bike mostly assembled. You start off on this trip. What like take me through like the first couple days or first week, like what what changes or what? How did it go compared to expectation?
[00:16:37] Maggie: I was like, I'm so good at things. I'm gonna be so good at this. This is gonna be no exception because I'm really good at things and I got on the bike and I was like, I'm really bad at this. I am so bad at biking for a long time. My body hates this, I hate this. This is horrible. It is so hot. I literally throwing up like it is wrong with me. So hard. And I, I just remember finishing the first day doing 50 miles. Relatively flat Terrain. I was like, oh no. Oh this is harder than I thought it was gonna be every day. Like we get like in the 40s and I just like come to like kind of like this like slow grinding Halt. And that's getting further and further ahead and I was like, I am something's wrong with me, I feel sick and it was heat exhaustion.
[00:17:32] Maggie: Like I don't live in Montana, it was like 40 degrees when we left here and raining and then it was 90 degrees with full sun exposure. Like I'm a fragile Northern creature. And so it turns out I had like pretty severe heat exhaustion that first day and then the next day and the day after that and so getting used to that was really hard and I just remember being a little bit stunned like oh because I went to Colorado Trail a couple years ago and blew Myself Away with how many miles I did. And how did I felt and how good it felt and then Arizona showed the next year, I did a couple, I
[Editor’s note: This is Maggie’s personal retrospective account from 2023, not a diagnosis or a safe model for continuing through heat-illness symptoms. Heat illness can become a medical emergency; use current qualified guidance.]
[00:18:02] Tayson: mean, when you came to design with us like you were, you were flying and you're kept saying, like, I'll just feel so good to like, get out of the house and move and like, you're flying down the trail right
[00:18:10] Maggie: off the couch, inside. I was like, completely out of shape. I still thought like, oh yeah, I'm so good hiking about that I can push big miles and so I just I thought it was going to be the same thing on a bike, and let me tell you it was not, it was Yeah, it was so much harder than I thought.
[00:18:27] Tayson: Like biking, but the heat. So, I, I typically am wearing, like, a Garmin watch, right? And it was like, starting to get hotter in Utah. And one of the things that Garmin started reporting on was like, my heat acclimation. and, Like for like a month and a half, my heat acclimation was 1% and I'm like it's getting way high here like I'm sweating buckets like I'm a 1% heat acclimation you know. And and then like finally I went on like a run it was really hot. Like I was like yeah this is really hot and it like moved to like 14% heat acclimation but I just like I I think about you coming from Montana and maybe other parts of the country like they just don't recognize this. But I think like humans really do like adapt for seasons and their body changes and sweat rate changes and all these different factors. And so I can only imagine that that was a shock to the body.
[00:19:22] Maggie: It was it was an absolute shock to the system. I think that that puts a while. I was listening to another podcast kind of about this, the crazy heat in the country and it was a phoenix, has a heat expert or something. But and he was saying he's like, he is one of the things that we don't consider to be a deadly Factor, because it's not like he comes through and devastates, a town and flattens buildings, it comes through and it leaves and everything looks the same, but it's so dangerous. And so we don't consider it. But yeah, I really struggled and I was very New Mexico was beautiful, but it was also, it's a really hard way to start that route. Um, like cat wants to come in. Sorry. I'm gonna come in. You can come in here. Oh goodness, I'm so sorry. This is just the way I love my life. The weird cat lady.
[00:20:08] Maggie: so, Yeah, New Mexico is is the most remote of so the good Great Divide goes through New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming Montana and then a few hundred miles into Canada. And New Mexico is the most remote has the longest water carries, the longest food carries the Gil encounter on the route and and also some of some of the hardest terrain. And so it was a really it was about 700 miles to get through New Mexico and it was extremely challenging and did it. You know, some days in the 70s Myles, not in the degrees, it was way warmer than that because it's we started June 6th, I think and then but most days I was in the 50s and it wasn't like some of the 50 mile days would take me all day but my body was just done biking in the 50s. And I was so frustrated with myself because I feel like I don't have a lot going for me athletically, but I can really just go far and I really haven't had.
[00:21:09] Maggie: I'm sorry, that's my guess, but I haven't had an issue going far, backpacking. And I just, I could thinking okay, like I'm just gonna start getting accustomed to being on a bike and it's going to the mileage gonna start coming. And it really felt like every day was a push to get into the high 50s or even low 60s. Fun. And
[00:21:28] Tayson: if you're not a biker though, like 50 miles sounds like a ton of miles to me, you know, like I'm I'm not a big road biker, gravel biker, I've done some mountain biking, but like, I personally, I've never spent an entire day on a bike, right? Like, sun up to sundown type of writing. So to me, 50 Mi sounds like a lot, but it sounds like you're being pretty hard on yourself for 50 miles.
[00:21:49] Maggie: I am being hard on myself and I think you, I don't know. So in kind of like that, long distance world. I was thinking about this. Actually, there was a lot of mileage, comparison you'd run into, we didn't run into a ton of other North boundaries, but everybody wants to know how many miles a day. When did you start? Oh, you're oh, that's casual. And so that people who had started very, very early up in this area that I'm in now who we ran into in Colorado and you know I'm I'm struggling with the surface and struggling with the headwind and struggling with the climbs. I'm struggling with the heat and then we run into, you know, some guy in spandex with, you know, he's wearing his clipless clipless shoes and I'm in my flats and have a good setup and I have lightweight gear and I'm fairly a fit.
[00:22:38] Maggie: But, you know, we said, oh yeah, we started, you know, in this day and we're doing this many miles, it's like, oh that's like a really nice relaxed touring paste. I'm like really, I am killing myself here, I am a slap you dude. Hi, I don't know. It was, I'm trying to get from the benefit of the doubt but it was a little things like that that made me so overly self-conscious and thinking, like I'm out here doing, you know, biking 100s of miles on, you know, some good surface, some rugged surface, and I still and being somehow made to feel like I'm not doing enough, and it was just such an interesting commentary on this mindset that people get into and how when you're on the route. Sure. Maybe in the 50s and low 60s is not impressive in general. That's like a lot of biking to me. I haven't biked. 50 miles up in fact, no, thank you. So, yeah,
[00:23:30] Tayson: you like making me think about everything I say on podcasts and videos and I hope that anyone was listening like just because sometimes we'll get out there and Crush big mild days like By no means, I think anyone and everyone needs to and in a lot of ways big mild days. Aren't always the funnest and like what I aspire to do like we when we just barely went out on a trail. What typically happens with my group of, you know, team members is when we go out to do like 100 miles section, Seems like everyone just eggs each other on to put in a couple more miles at the end of the day. And then by the time it's done. What always happens is we do 100 miles in like four and a half days and I'm like, we had all of day. Five like, why did we need to kill ourselves? Like we could have been sitting by this Lake and we could have took in a nap during lunch.
[00:24:17] Tayson: Like you know, what would have been awesome? And so I think everyone should have their own experience. I hope that I never I don't, I'm not perpetuating any of that, you know, to just general hiking but definitely. Yeah, to me like, that's, it's a different ballgame too. When you're loaded down with gear, you're not in Spandex and clippings, you know, like it totally totally different and your bike doesn't weigh five grand, you know,
[00:24:41] Maggie: you Are the most intense athletes in in and outdoor brand I've ever been with. And I I think probably between 4 and 10 media trips a year, kind of depending on what my hiking life looks like my other travel looks like, and He I was a boy. You guys are so intense. Like, oh, these are all like, these guys are not sitting in an office talking about materials. They're out hiking. 25 miles a day. Talking about materials. The who are these people? That's why. I mean that trip was so fun because I felt like you guys are, you know, I work with a lot of Brandon. You guys were one of, the only Brands I've worked with who are really out like doing like quite impressive things in the backcountry. So I'm sure that
[00:25:23] Tayson: I think that's I think over time Yeah. Yeah one of our employees kind of started to say this and I feel like we probably resonate with it a little bit. Like we love all things outdoors, I love backpacking. One mile with my kids and go into a lake, I love doing all that, but in a lot of ways we look at backpacking. Like a sport, if that makes sense. And so we do kind of push the boundaries of performance at times and what can we squeeze into our lives with? I mean, most the guys have kids and we all have jobs, you know, career. So no it is. We we do love to get out there though, for sure. But anyway, so you get through this first week. Like, did you did? Like did you have any doubts at that point? Are you or is it just more like a figuring out? Your pacing
[00:26:06] Maggie: know, I had doubts every day. So the other thing I think I think one of my detriments on this was and I'm making it sound negative. It was an incredible experience, and I'm really proud and it was really cool and I don't have to go do those miles again. But I wanted um I think one of the detriments was my throughout the experience and being so comfortable backpacking and I'm used. So if your backpacking, your surface matters to a certain degree, but if you're walking on washboard or you're walking on rocks, or you're walking on softer dirt, it doesn't super matter. To the extent that it does on a bicycle. And so, another thing I didn't quite take into consideration was the head went in the surface. So elements that you don't think as much about when you're backpacking, And so, if you mad, and I would be biking, 10ish miles an hour on a moderate terrain, maybe slightly uphill, maybe, you know, moderate whatever.
[00:27:04] Maggie: If you turned because the wind would pretty much stay consistent in a direction during the day, okay? So you're biking and you have no wind at all. And then the wind starts picking up at a certain time, you're going from 10 miles an hour to fighting for your life at five miles an hour and you're dropping gears and we'd be in granny gear just fighting 40 Mi an hour headwinds and just it feels like you're just being pushed backwards and it is it is so demoralizing and sometimes you're on really rough surface too. And so you go from really nice, hard packed here to sections of loose, sand and rock, and steep downhills that end in sand pits. And then you kind of get, you know, you come to a screeching halt and sometimes slide off your bike and then that's just stop and push your bike back up.
[00:27:42] Maggie: And so you're contending with so many other factors that I hadn't considered when I when I was thinking about you know, I'm switching from being on my feet to be on a bicycle. And so yeah, you can cover a lot more mileage and you know you get a lot of free miles too. If you have a tailwind and you have anything downhill, those are basically free miles which you don't get backpacking. So backpacking is a lot more moderate It's more in the middle. You're either you're like a four effort to an eight effort and biking around, like, you could be at a 0 effort, just standing up on your petals and flying down 12 miles of a descent. But then you could be fighting for your life going up and 8% great for 20 miles. That's an exaggeration. But yeah,
[00:28:20] Tayson: selling me on this. No, it was
[00:28:24] Maggie: I loved it. I cannot wait to do more short. Trips.
[00:28:28] Tayson: Okay. Okay, so, so take me through. Where does it change to enjoyment in this trip?
[00:28:34] Maggie: I was enjoying it the whole time and every day was a struggle. So I know from through hiking that I would have days that felt easy, this bike ride. So we're out there which I gotta make sure I get to what happened. So we didn't finish. But you could I would have days. I think I had maybe two or three days that did not feel like that was really like You know, really working hard. Whereas like sometimes backpacking, you have chill days and, and the bike route, like you either, it was either. He had wind. Rough surface or just my body was just really tired. So every day felt hard and I really enjoyed it. There was a really Incredible Days. Going past, the Wind River range was unbelievable. The passes in Colorado, had surprisingly really nice grades for the route and so I would see these passes coming up and just kind of freaked out.
[00:29:22] Maggie: I struggle immensely with anxiety, and my anxiety was like pretty strong on this thinking about the biking for each day, but the passes were fine. You know, you might be climbing for 15 or 20 miles, but you're at a really moderate grade, and you can stop and you can eat a snack. And so, um, and the clients in Colorado. We're so rewarding and New Mexico was gorgeous. So, it really was incredible, and it was much more challenging for me than I thought it was gonna be. And I know that's not, that's not what I hear from. A lot of people. A lot of people are surprised. Oh, yeah, it felt fine. I did it. Like I thought this was really hard. So then yeah, we got into Sochi cross New Mexico, cross Colorado. We got into Wyoming and we were I see like the majority of the way through Wyoming. Heading towards.
[00:30:08] Maggie: Heading towards Jackson and Matt started feeling sick in the basement, which the basement is something I never have to do again in my entire life, the Great Basin in Wyoming and so I'm glad I crossed it on a bike and not on the CDT so did that? And that sort of feeling kind of sick in the Basin and then coming into Pinedale was really dragging behind it. Was a resupply town at this point. We were in a little bit of a time crunch because of that schedule and also that's a little more intense than me. And so in 1500 miles, we'd only take in one day off. And we invite every other day. And so, I was Just tired. I was dealing with, like, a lot of Saddle store issues. It's a bike fit issues. And just I was in that like, my, my legs are smoked. I can't, I need a break. I can't keep climbing this much every day.
[00:30:55] Maggie: And so anyway, we had a break and Steamboat Springs and we hadn't had another break. And so in Pinedale, Matt got really sick overnight in Pinedale, I said, okay, well we're not gonna bike out if you're in the morning. That's insane. So, I got us a hotel room and we switched hotels. And then biked out the next day. He said he was good to leave and he ended up not being, okay? So we made it 50 miles out. We're at this really small Lake. Um, no, it was just like, it was a named Lake, but it wasn't signed or anything at the lake. So it wasn't like a destination or anything of this, incredibly rugged Road and he ended up getting really sick that night like, debilitating lie on well, I thought, you know, symptoms of appendicitis but in both lower quadrants of his stomach. And so, yeah, we did a pending to use a, an in reach to call search and rescue, and set up a search and rescue.
[00:31:45] Maggie: Just start extraction from Teton
[00:31:48] Tayson: County, hit the legendary, SOS button, or what
[00:31:51] Maggie: kind of. Yeah. Yeah. So there was another family, so long story but there's another family to campsite who was able to like kind of coordinate with their family out there. And so their family members back in civilisation were able to get in touch and like kind of triangulate between Teton County SAR and then I can't remember. Um, what the county is the pineal was in, but they kind of like we got our wires crossed a little bit. So eventually took took about A 78911. Yeah, just about five hours to get searched Rescue out there on, they had a long way to get back into where we were and then ended up having to use their ATV because it was It was possible with a truck but very, very it was extremely rough road that we had biked in on, and that wasn't able to bike out. So um, yeah.
[00:32:37] Maggie: So at that point, obviously like his health and safety comes first and so he said, okay, like this is it, we're not gonna go any further we. So we ended up, we've done, 1600 miles of the route and then I've done whatever else I've done in Montana on past trips. And so yeah, if we want to start
[00:32:52] Tayson: like what like what was going on with them or what?
[00:32:57] Maggie: Okay, I'll make my money back on the hotel rooms. So what happened? So the SAR team were great and there was a long ride and then got to the truck and then kind of put that in the truck. Oh, they were able to so I couldn't I thought we're gonna have to leave our bikes back there and lose the bikes but because it was Teton County SAR, they do a lot of mountain bike rescue. So they had a bike rack on the back of this razor. So they put our bikes on the bike rack and bike racked all the way out to their truck to the yeah, to their SAR truck. And then brought him to the Jackson emergency room. And it was a severe severe GI virus viral infection in his gut. A couple with severe dehydration, and then weight loss. And this was body went into ketosis, which was, I think part of like, muscle, his body was like, eating his own muscle
[Editor’s note: The illness, dehydration, weight loss, and ketosis language above reflects Maggie’s recollection of a 2023 hospital visit. It is not an independently verified diagnosis, medical explanation, or nutrition protocol.]
[00:34:14] Tayson: like rabbit.
[00:34:16] Maggie: Not quite so
[00:34:17] Tayson: right? Okay,
[00:34:18] Maggie: yeah, if you look at ketosis, it's really weird. So He had like these burps that smelled like like really like really, really
[00:34:31] Tayson: bad Dr. Pepper And I should, I've heard like people talk about like metallic taste in their mouth. And
[00:34:37] Maggie: yeah, yeah. Like what kind of a city kind of metallic, but really weirdly sweet. It was, it was a horrifying night. It would say, I'd say, like, out of all of the knights, I'm making light of it. But it was its, it was a little traumatizing and I really, I didn't know what was wrong with him, and we were so far out there and so remote. And we gotten there under her own power. And I looked at a map, the day before, and I was like, okay, we leave Pinedale, like, we're gonna be really far from anything for a while. And that was, of course, I'm lying. There are three in the morning while he's in this like, severe distress and really, really sick and just thinking, like, how are we gonna get out of here? It was
[00:35:15] Tayson: like losing fluids and stuff at that point, or
[00:35:18] Maggie: oh, he hadn't really been able to take in anything, um, and so and he had lost so much weight and so, and I was thinking like, you know, on any other section of this route, we passed. We were getting buzzed by cars the whole time and like four wheelers people. On dirt bikes. But this had been so remotely one of the one of the quietest Road. He's been on, of course, for hours leading up to this Lake. And so it was just, it was just hours of feeling. So panicky and worried and like, how am I gonna have to bike and leave him here and like go get help or like, what are we gonna do? Um,
[00:35:48] Tayson: yeah.
[00:35:49] Maggie: So Yeah, it was bad and it was terrible. Terrible experience.
[00:35:55] Tayson: Yeah. How did how did he contract like a you said GI Excuse me, a
[00:36:02] Maggie: viral infection, they said, yeah, I don't know. So, one of the things that they asked us in the hospital was, are you guys using the same filter? Like yeah, we both filter our water. We filtered everything. We use the same filter, you know, neither of us. He's a guy. And I am a writer. And so, you know, we don't put our water bottles in the Water Source like we're really careful. We're more careful than a lot of people are. I think? And so I don't know. I don't know what happened and why I didn't get sick. I have I still wonder kind of what was really going on, not to be like a conspiracy theorist but he was just it was so extreme and and it's been It's been weeks now and physically, it's still not the same, so kind of, you know, we've been back for several weeks on.
[00:36:47] Tayson: So yeah, let's hear The Conspiracy I'm all about.
[00:36:50] Maggie: I know, I don't know what because yeah, he's gonna like that. Know, just I already have a contra, or I'm already talking to editors and outside of my writing about it, like writing about search and rescue and on,
[00:37:04] Tayson: yeah,
[00:37:04] Maggie: kind of behind the scenes stuff. Um, so, yeah, I know it's cool to talk about it but I really don't know what it is. And so we're in a slight disagreement about like the severity of, of the illness and kind of be impact after, I think it was maybe a GI virus that took hold a lot and really badly, because his body was already kind of going into into like ketosis and having I'm gonna get an idiot, I don't know. Dude, I have just
[00:37:32] Tayson: a difference of him. He rides with his mouth open, you don't. So he swallowed all these bugs,
[00:37:36] Maggie: like, gasping for air, so yeah, it was on. I guess like the to sum it up. It was extremely traumatic way to end a trip that I've been planning for years. I will process everything by pitching articles about it and pitching essays and writing about it. Um, and yeah, it was an incredible experience on the route and then I had one of the worst experiences in the back country that I've ever had.
[00:38:06] Tayson: And I mean, anytime you're eating emergency pulled out that's that's wild. I mean right? It's like it's kind of like is that the first time you've ever had or been in a group? That's had something like that. Yeah. So like
[00:38:17] Maggie: I've never had a call like, ski patrol because I twisted my ankle on the ski hill. I've never it. Never in my wildest dreams would have thought that we'd be the one with an eight-hour SAR extraction.
[00:38:27] Tayson: Right, I think it and I think it's so easy to get confidence in that when you've spent hundreds of miles and hundreds of knights on trail, you know, it's just like that happens to everyone else. That doesn't happen to me, you know, and then bam it just hit and these can change so fast. So,
[00:38:42] Maggie: yeah,
[00:38:43] Tayson: I mean I yeah I'll tell it in a different podcast but I kind of had one of those moments where I was like ding like like something's can just change so quickly even when you, you know, walking along and complete confidence and you've always been able to. So it's a lesson I think to, to everyone just to be listening to and you know, being mindful of those kinds of things for sure. And and then too even with like the search and rescue. You know, it sounds like they did an awesome job with you. But, you know, you're still waiting five hours and I think sometimes people think like, oh and I do hit that SOS button like man. They're they're just here. You know what I mean? They're they're here to grab you quick and so it all different experiences. I've heard all different experiences from getting search and rescue and pulled out. And so it's it's it's all good information to have. I think, for people
[Editor’s note: This is one historical search-and-rescue response. A satellite SOS starts an emergency response but does not guarantee timing, access, transport capability, or outcome.]
[00:39:35] Maggie: Yeah, it's um, it definitely. It definitely knocked me down a few pegs and just wearing us and precautions and okay you're not you're not just because you've done this a lot and you're experienced and your competent. It doesn't mean that you're immune from your partner, getting a severe GI virus and not being able to get himself out of the backcountry So, yeah. Um, it was. Yeah, I Yeah, no matter what and also mean that's that's an illness, forget Rock fall for getting missed us, for getting injuries for good sneak by, you know, but if you start to think about that, you're never gonna leave your house again.
[00:40:12] Tayson: Put that in a box over here, believe it.
[00:40:13] Maggie: Yeah,
[00:40:14] Tayson: so, so what did you think of bike packing you? I think you said earlier, like, you'll do more bike packing, but maybe not long distance bike packing.
[00:40:22] Maggie: Yeah, I would like, to finish the Great Divide. I'd like to piece together what I haven't done on and so kind of moving around the stuff I've done in Montana. I'd like to do the rest of Montana. So, Southern Montana. I'd like to finish Wyoming. Southern Montana. And then I think that'll bands to the Border would just be The four or five days of biking so I'd like to piece it together and finish it for sure. I actually I said I'm not gonna get back on my bike once we get back and then I think it was Labor Day weekend. So now I'm training for that.
[00:40:55] Tayson: I mean yeah you gotta take It back.
[00:41:01] Maggie: I don't want to get out of this biking shape. Um, unless and then I'll do this, I'll do this bike race, it's just one day, my bike will be empty. And then, yeah. So I'm loving on my bike and loving being in biking shape. Um, and I Would like to do more bike trips. I just don't know if I am a bike Packer like a career bike. Packer for months on end. Yeah,
[00:41:29] Tayson: I've got two thoughts here one. You said that that bike packing. A Long Trail was a lot harder than through hiking. Do you like is that just globally? Like you just believe that. Still. Or was that like the, like the logistics of it specifically? Oh,
[00:41:46] Maggie: just the logistics. I think. Okay, because of the nature of at least a gravel route, like this, there are definitely. I mean, when you see people bypassing the Colorado trail that is so hard for their on their own mountain bikes, it's so their bike packing, this insane single track, we're doing everything, but the Wilderness Area so they have those reroutes. I did the Colorado Trail a few years ago and saw the bike Packers and just kind of believe what they were doing, but something like the great to buy you're terrain. If you look at you know, the vert per mile, it's going to be easier than a lot of through hiking trails, just nature of the Easter on grab what roads that have to follow a certain grade. So like more PCT, great less a tea grade On than through hiking, but Logistics were quite challenging.
[00:42:26] Maggie: We did have to, I had to do some bike repairs and we had to hitchhike off the route to get into Albuquerque where there was a bike shop because New Mexico. Also you have I don't know, 800 miles between Silver City, New Mexico, and then your first bike shop in Colorado. And so you have a long time, so they go wrong with your bike, and you have a serious mechanical, you have to figure out how to get yourself to a bike shop. And so we need to hitchhike with two bikes and hitchhiking. With two backpacks is fine, taking the two bicycles. It was just full and then we had to figure out how to get back to the route and we had to find buses that we get us to within a certain distance of the route that has like rocks and we couldn't like the bike rocks were supposed to bike on the highway. And so, um, logistically bike is harder than a backpack.
[00:43:11] Tayson: All right. So next question here. and you can just choose to pass if you have nothing to share on this, but Just I'm just gonna go out on some limbs here. There's some there's some chatter out there specifically in the endurance World about how women actually do better at ultra-long distances,
[00:43:29] Maggie: right? Yeah,
[00:43:29] Tayson: and I mean there's there's women out there, proven it like Courtney to alter gets closer and closer. She's one, she's all out one endurance races with with men and women and the field. She had a credible performance, a hard rock recently, but
[00:43:44] Maggie: I love her.
[00:43:46] Tayson: Yeah, she's she's, it's insanity. And just I mean just hard rock in general, like because we were just out there in the San Juans, right? Where, you know, crossing paths with some of that. And it's just what those people can do is insane and anyways, but but going back to like, your experience, you're saying like, yeah, Matt's like not ingesting enough calories is putting his body into like a severe ketosis, these kinds of things and I've met Matt and he's a he's a very fit guy but he's barely skinny if I remember right too. Yeah
[00:44:18] Maggie: he's quite lean.
[00:44:19] Tayson: Yeah, he's really lean So like um Like like do you think that could have played a part into why he got into this kind of state? Do you think it was lack of of a good diet or do you think like, hey, like that's just like men have a bigger wrist when they're doing these crazy. Massive efforts for 30 days straight.
[00:44:40] Maggie: That's a good question. I think, um, physically, Matt is more physically capable than me and Elsa. This can go in general, like biologically men are just I think put together physically, they are faster and stronger. And that's why that's why you know, we have separate categories from it and um and so we don't compete like I'm not competing directly against that, I'm not compete with not either, but basically he was faster than me. He could have done bigger miles and if I wasn't with him and he got sick and I don't, I think I had If we're talking about weight, I had more reserved than him. I'm like, stature wise, I'm I have more body fat and I had more reserved. So I could have I didn't lose any weight on this route. I might that turned to muscle on it, but I lost no weight. I ended up 1600 miles of bike and I think really I weighed the same and that long significant amount of God I guess? Okay.
[00:45:31] Maggie: And that loss of significant amount of weight in his body, really struggled. And I think, you know, I'm not not all men are put together like that but he's he's put together like that and so I hold on to wait differently but as far as, you know, women performing better in Long things. I have read that, you know, men physically cannot perform women and women can be more can have stronger mental reserves. So when it comes down to it and this is all anecdotal, this is just stuff. I've read too and conversations they've had that women are able to gut things out sometimes like if we're looking at like percentage of finishers and where women finish and how like The, the bars get closer together. The longer the distances is really interesting to me and it seems to me that like either that's just, you know, like, more Ultra endurance capabilities, or it becomes a mental game once you once you're both at a Peak Physical Fitness.
[Editor’s note: The sex, body-composition, mental-reserve, and endurance statements in this exchange are anecdotal and speculative, not established medical or training guidance.]
[00:46:25] Maggie: So again, all anecdotal but I have heard the same thing and I love it. I love that.
[00:46:29] Tayson: It's it's a super interesting concept like it really is and I'm very excited for those Ultra athletes to continue to push boundaries and hopefully uncover more of the science behind.
[00:46:43] Maggie: You know,
[00:46:43] Tayson: these, these big efforts, massive distances and and like you say that spread just getting closer and closer and
[00:46:49] Maggie: yeah,
[00:46:50] Tayson: maybe it is like partially. Maybe there's some mental things because I know I would say my tendency is gonna be like even like you're describing like if I was in Matt's place like If I am capable of doing more miles like and I was solo like I'm gonna do more miles and then I'm gonna just put myself at bigger wrist to burn out. You know what I mean? Turn towards in the hair kind of thing and so it is, it is just all I'm excited. Like, people are pushing boundaries in sports right now. It'll be fun to continue to learn the science behind some of that. So
[00:47:22] Maggie: yeah.
[00:47:24] Tayson: Um, you mentioned a few times. seriously, you mentioned a few times about writing and, you know, you're, you're a career writer in the outdoor space as well as You know, horse stuntman. So, we'll get into that in a second. But what is it like, what is it? Like, I mean one, how did you get into the outdoors? And then, how did you wind up being a professional writer and just kind of take us through that? And what that's like,
[00:47:50] Maggie: oh sure. I kind of defaulted into writing because I feel into writing as a way to have the Life Style that I have. Now, I want to make enough money where I'm not stressed about money, but I don't want my money. I don't want me making money to impact what I do. And so it's kind of a balancing act there. And so, I started out working more normal jobs. I worked at hunting apparel company for a while, which, I know we've talked about I taught at a Climbing gym. I was an art model. I've done every job. I was a barista. Forever. And Then I was a managing editor for the truck which is a long-distance backpacking, kind of media conglomerate now. And then during covid I couldn't keep that job because of you know their Financial State during covid.
[00:48:35] Maggie: And so I started freelancing full-time and thought, okay, if I can hack this, if I can make this work for a little bit and survive on freelancing income, that would be really cool because now I have no boss. And it turned out. It could do it and it was a lot. Easier than I thought because I already had a platform. I already had connections with editors and Brands like you guys and NPR agencies through the track are people that I had known like through the industry. So I just started snowballing and reaching out and injured a lot of rejection. I don't want to I don't care about rejection who cares? Like it's not personal. And if it is that their problem, And so I just started getting more and more by lines and started reaching out and it's just, you just have to to survive as a freelancer. You have to be both disciplined and you have to just always be selling yourself. So, I am a marketer for myself also.
[00:49:23] Maggie: And once once I get once I wedge a foot in the door in a very competitive space, everyone wants to be an outdoor writer who's in this who's like, you know, in the outdoor space because our lives are awesome and very free. And so once you get a foot in the door, you then have to be better. And by better like not just writing better but you have to be so easy to work with the editors and you have to be reliable. And you have to file really clean copy and you have to communicate well and you have to be easy to work with and you have to you know impress them with a copy that. You turn it. You have to turn around your edits really quickly.
[00:49:55] Maggie: And so if you do all those things and you make their lives easier, you will be the first person that they think about when they're going back to their broader pool for another assignment because when I have Backpacking Routes my own website and I was at the track. And so I took that information as an Editor and it's like, who are the Freelancers. So I like to work with the most who are the people that keep going back to over and over because they make my life easier on my end of the computer. And so that's what I do is a freelancer and I think that's how I've gathered and maintained the number of clients that I have and how I was able, we got off this road, a month early and I sent out a couple emails on the way back from Jackson because I didn't say and Um, you know, I had a meeting, a phone meeting with the teachers editor for outside.
