EP 152 - Revenge or Reliving? Tushar Mountain Ultra Race Story

[00:00:00] Tayson: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Live Ultralight Podcast powered by Outdoor Vitals. Today, we are going to be breaking down not only mine, but Darren's ultra race that we just completed called the Tushar Mountain Ultras. I ran the 70K, even though it was a 75K, and Darren ran the 100K, even though it was something over that as well. 104K. 104K. So we're going to be talking about that and we've got some stories to tell for sure. We did a pre -race podcast on this, so if you want to go back and listen to that, you can kind of hear what we were thinking beforehand and what our training and our plans were. And then in this podcast, we'll be breaking down how those actually went on the trail. Before we jump in, though, I did just want to highlight a couple of things. This is August now. It's technically August 2nd when we're recording this, which means that the CS40 backpacks will be shipping and the Skyline fastpacks are right around the corner. So stay tuned. Both me and Darren did use the Skyline fastpacks on this race, and we've used them a ton for different multi -night adventures as well. So if those are two things that you're looking for, those are two things that are coming very, very shortly. So, OK, oh, I don't have no idea where to begin. I'm going to crack open a soda and we're just going to hang out and we're going to just digest this. We've got Tyler in the studio as well to just help us navigate this because I'm sure we could get down some rattle holes and get nowhere,

[Editor’s note: These shipping and launch statements were recorded in August 2023 and should not be read as current availability information.]

[00:01:27] Tyler: but I'm going to be the fact checker.

[00:01:30] Tayson: Yeah, the fact checker, which we're not telling two biggest stories over here. I don't know where else to start other than I guess I won't I won't tell you how things ended. We'll try not to tell things how things ended just yet. I think both me and Darren were a little surprised at how things ended. It was it was different than plans, but that's what you'd expect in a ultramarathon that can go for 15 to 24 hours. So, yeah. Darren, you you showed up the night before, got registered. This is your first ever ultra. This is my second ultra, even though I've I've only ever done this ultra. So it's just my second attempt at the same ultra twice. I mean, you just you slept in the back of the truck and took a Benadryl. I don't know if you went to sleep or not, but I never saw you again.

[00:02:20] Darren: OK, so to click. Yeah, so my whole goal is just to go up there in the truck and sleep in the back of it. Had a little inflatable pad and I got registered. That one's fine. And then I was just sitting in my truck eating some sandwiches and Tayson pulls up right behind me. And I was like, oh, I recognize that beard.

[00:02:41] Tayson: Yeah, you better.

[00:02:45] Darren: well, it's like just there's so many people. But anyhow, Tayson is like, hey, you know, when you're done or when he gets checked in, he's like, just follow me to the camp. And I was like, I don't want to interrupt, you know, their family time and whatnot. And I can just sleep here in the parking lot. But he was pretty insistent. And so after he got checked in,

[00:03:07] Tayson: you would have slept like crap there, dude.

[00:03:08] Darren: I would have been on all night lights would have been on all night, too. So so we actually after he got checked in, I followed him back to his camp and it was this nice little meadow type area. Plenty of spots for me to give him his privacy, but still be able to kind of kick back and relax. And I think that was what, seven at night by the time that we actually got there.

[00:03:30] Tayson: Sounds right.

[00:03:30] Darren: And that was actually really good. I mean, I slept pretty good until it started raining on me.

[00:03:37] Tayson: Oh, it started raining?

[00:03:38] Darren: Yeah. And then I just pulled the top cold over my head and I was able to sleep. But I took a Benadryl and I was I was out and I slept pretty good until to about three in the morning. And I knew I was going to get up pretty quick after that anyway.

[00:03:54] Tayson: Yeah. So your your start time was five a .m., right?

[00:03:58] Darren: Yep. Mine was five. And then his would start an hour after that. So at three, I just kind of stayed there and huddled up. Thought about my day until four. That's when I got dressed and so no nerve away from three a .m.

[00:04:13] Tayson: Yeah. And so was that nerves you waking up that early or it had to be.

[00:04:17] Darren: Yeah, I mean, I just was thinking like, well, that race is going to be starting pretty soon and I don't want to sleep past an alarm. So I was like within an hour, I'm going to get up anyway. So I stayed up.

[00:04:28] Tayson: Did you eat anything?

[00:04:30] Darren: Just the night before. So the night before I had no turkey sandwiches and some meat sticks and things I knew was drinking a Mountain Dew as he was going to bed. I'm like, dude,

[00:04:41] Tayson: that is normal for me. I have a I have a pretty high caffeine tolerance by mine. You should see how many Mountain Dew cans are in one a day, but, you know, it adds up. Yeah, in that camp, that camp was fun. We had the year previous. I had run with some kind of extended cousins and. Um, then my first cousins were there and an uncle were there watching us and they were just telling me that I was stupid and crazy. The whole time I felt like and their eyes were always this big and they just couldn't believe that we were out there doing this. They live in Beaver, which is just down the canyon from the ski resort and and they, they thought we were crazy. But then all the like two months after last year's race, they I find out that they signed up for the race and I'm like, what in the world that's on? They hated the idea this anyways. So we were in Camp with them. So I had my uncle running and he was 51 years old running and then my younger cousin and then one of their cousins as well. And so we had kind of a fun camp there. You know, nervous asking a bunch of questions. And yeah, just just it was a good time but I was kind of same as you. I didn't fall asleep, very well, but then once I did, I slept pretty good until I, I slept in as long as I could. So I slept until about 5:15 almost. And then just kind of scrambled to get to the Stars. Yeah,

[00:05:59] Darren: yeah. I went to bed early. So I still got a full night dress so

[00:06:02] Tayson: so how did the start go for? You

[00:06:04] Darren: start was awesome. A lot of people all excited, you know like people taking their photos, you like did you feel like

[00:06:14] Tayson: you were surrounded by a smiley Ultra runners?

[00:06:18] Darren: You know, that's it's really surprising because some people look like they're built for it and then there's others. Like man, you're a runner, you know, like they come in all shapes and sizes, they do and can't figure it out. And so I I felt like, okay, I fit right in somewhere in the middle. So and I was like, I I tried not to think about the race a whole lot like other than I'm just gonna get into it. So I didn't like myself out.

[00:06:44] Tayson: That's what the question is. But do you have any idea, like what your first couple of Miles, like pacing was?

[00:06:51] Darren: No, no no. I just did with the crowd. I couldn't go past faster. I couldn't go slower.

[00:06:56] Tayson: So it's pretty tight in there, depending on where you get in the crowd because the first guy's man, they freaking they fly. I mean, they take off but the rest of us are kind of in a pack, but Yeah for me starting out my cousin's and my uncle got separated because they couldn't Park you know right spots and so me and my uncle. Sit around there, looking at each other, as the start of it, we started in the dead last of the pack. And honestly, I think that was a really good thing because we still put in like 15 minute miles. The first like three miles and I was like I don't want to go any faster than this, you know. because I know I'd just pay for it, so, Um yeah it's kind of an awkward start. We're like well they're saying go crap, you know but um yeah it was it was good for me but Yeah, I don't know. I guess in that first segment. Did you have any Milestones goals issues?

[00:07:49] Darren: For me know, there was one point where I got a little off Trail. And that's just because the flags like there was probably 10 of us or we all kind of like where do we go? You know, like my watch is going off saying you're off Trail and wait, I think we gotta go back that way when we, we actually found our way back and that was only, you know, maybe two minute deviation and it's like that was the only hiccup it was dark and it wasn't just me. It was, it was a bunch of people and so

[00:08:19] Tayson: you got a lot in the dark, my friend. We

[00:08:21] Darren: we sure did. Anyone in that 100 class like Hunter cake class, like they, they're not, And they know what it's like to run in the dark now. So,

[00:08:32] Tayson: yeah. Yeah, for me. Prior to starting out, we were allowed to drop two drop bags. There were some core deviations to the course. So that that kind of changed some of my planning last year, I was able to have my crew at three different Aid stops and this year has only able to have them at one Aid. Stop. Snow levels and Gates on the mountain. And so, it changed things. So, I did two drop bags and so I pre-packaged basically, like a sandwich size Ziploc with a pre-mixed mixture of Skratch labs. They call it Super High Carb now. But it's like a 400 calories with sodium, drink, mix, and then I mixed other another one of their like, wellness scratches in there, which gives me So that that alone was like over 1000 milligrams of sodium and then you know, 500 carbs and then I had snacks and each bag and so I had my CamelBak loaded with one of those and then my two, my two flasks were loaded up with with fluid and then I had some calories in, my goal is basically to go through each aid station. And mix up another one of those that I was getting almost 500 liquid calories between every age station and then I was eating all. So another potential 500 Cal having done this race before. Hit a massive wallet, like Mi 30 or I just lost all energy. You know, I had my issues last year with running and knee pain, and chin pain, and all that kind of stuff that they kept me from running fast Paces, but almost more than anything else, it was probably calories and and Salts and stuff that really screwed me up over salting and then messing up my gut. And so, this year I was, I was I spent so much of my, you know, training time on trying to dial that in. So I really tried to execute their so I had two drop bags with my Ziplocs in there, that had kind of my mixes ready and then some restock of fueling and and then on this particular carry, I had to carry one of those in my backpack. Because the resupply there was no drop bag and you're at an eighth station. That's on the middle of nowhere. So I just when I got there I switched that out. So yeah, first aid station for me. Getting there was pretty smooth. I felt pretty good. How many miles eight eight. Yeah most of these are gonna be close to 8 or just under so that one is pretty much I exactly ate with over 2000 feet of climbing, and about 1600 feet of dissent if I'm not mistaken about 22 and 17. So Still a lot of climbing, but not a lot of like, massive climbs at one time. So it didn't, it doesn't feel like 2200 feet of climbing specially when you're fresh. But yeah, went pretty well, I did go to jump over a creek at, like mile 7. And my calf cramp just a little bit and I was like what the heck is going on here? Like I've run so many training runs 15 to 20 miles training runs over and over with no cramping like So, I just tried to like, put in the back of my mind, breathe deep, get my heart rate down and just think, maybe it's stress, maybe it's something else. But yeah, I got to that first aid station. And for me, I actually got in Maybe a hair slower than last time and I think I don't think that's a bad thing. Like I kind of I'm doing some guesses with my watch. Data, but it looks like last year I got in there, like, two or three in this year, I got there and like, two of seven. So maybe four minutes behind last year's pace, which To me, was was right on. I was not trying to run this section any faster than I did the first time and it makes sense for me, starting in the very back and even waiting just a little bit for for cousin and whatnot. So yeah, really. Common mistake is too fast too soon, right? Yeah, so I felt like that was right on Pace. Essentially, that puts me at what? 15 minute miles, roughly somewhere on there. Which, you know, technically is, is too fast when you look at the entire day, but it doesn't feel too fast. When you're typically running 12 minute miles, On 15 Mile runs for training. Right? So very stable Pace but Yeah, got to the Aid Station cycled through my my resupply stuff and hit it out. Yeah, there was much else in that first section for you. Darren that stood out or

[00:13:05] Darren: no other than some of those 70k guys, when they started, like, they passed me. And the first section. The first before you got the first day before, we got to the first aid station Derby, people yell, and on your left and I saw their little. Yeah, they're yellow taxes for you guys that are the 70k guys. And they were flying. I was more of a middle of the pack, kind of guy like this whole race. But on this section like they were going past everyone. They had to be the course behind. Yeah. So they cut an hour

[00:13:35] Tayson: because I bet you probably ran that first segment and an hour or two hours as well. Pretty similar patient to me and yeah and so that means they cut an hour out of Wow. Like getting it done. Right. The first one. They're fresh fly. Yeah, that's very interesting. I mean it's They're not doing it wrong.

[00:13:54] Darren: No, there's a reason why they're so fast. Well,

[00:13:58] Tayson: they're very fastest. 70k guy was eight hours, 42 minutes. Yeah, so that makes sense and insanity. Kyle Curtin. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was the course record, but insane. anyways so start the next section, it's kind of a steep climb up through Pass and then you then we had a snow filled and this is a gnarly snowfall I don't know what it was like for you, like did you end up sliding down? I crashing. So

[00:14:28] Darren: I did. I mean, More of a slide at this point, you know, like, we knew that we weren't gonna get all the way down. Like, there's stopped in the middle. Yeah. There's some steps people were like trying and then their feet would come out from underneath them and they'd Slide the rest of the way. And then there's a bunch of like Literally cedar trees or Pines. People would crash into those. But we were at least smart enough to let him get up and get out of the way for the next guy did it, you know? And so That happened, you know, like I get going and I thought maybe I could put my foot in a little bit harder. He came out from under me, and I went down to its like, but mine came out pretty slow. I didn't run into any trees. I just slowed down the bottom and I kept going So, but, yeah, I mean, that's that's where it started with those those, you know, fields.

[00:15:18] Tayson: so, by the time I got there, Is a mess. I just like if you know what lemons are, I think is what they're called. Let me swimming's that. They'll follow each other off of cliffs, right? That's exactly what was happening. Like, I come up and like I hear some people yelling and I'm like, what the heck you know? So I kind of get up there, I hear more yelling and I started crossing the snow field and I start seeing people slide down on my wow this looks crazy and so I get up and I look off the edge, kind of an I'm like Dumbest thing I've ever seen, you know, I'm watching people. I'm watching people like waiting and then their feet come out from under him. And so then they slide down. I'm watching people crash into trees, like wrap themselves around trees and I'm like, one of these people. So I just start walking up the snow filled and I go up and around the whole thing, like it was like, maybe a 30-yard deviation, you know, but miao people are sliding out on this thing. So, I do, my little wrap around, I get a couple, I probably got it, you know, I've probably got a couple hundred yards behind like someone who just bombed through it, you know, and, and potentially hurt themselves and I start running. This lady is 100k right behind me now and she's like, I don't feel good. And I'm like, what do you mean, what's wrong? You know, so I kind of stopped and talked to her. She's walking and she's like, Really hard on that glaze. And and then we take a few more steps. She's like, something's moving like I've cracked my rib like it's just floating in there. I don't like what I just couldn't believe it you know. And so that I like read a little farther, I meet this other guy, he had broken his leg and was just walking out of there at this point and I watched another guy like eat crap in a creek and so, like, within like two or three miles. I watched like three people. They dnf the races and I'm like, Holy smokes, like take people like be smarter like I don't know what's going on but I thought really bad because that lady did not, I mean she she hit hard and clearly you know snapped her rib and so yeah, don't don't follow people off of glaze for no reason why. I don't think it counts as a glissade. If you're out of control, just flying down, that's just Pretty much pretty much controlled crash. Yeah. so, this next section, Start running down. And man, this is one of those sections where I kind of forgot just Just like how far the section was going past Delano, going dropping down before the clock. Yeah. Like would you so this whole race like this race starts at like 10,000 foot and 600 and then At the resort and then it just it just climbs. And so like we've already gone through like 10,800 or maybe the 11,000 foot passes and then we drop all the way down. And then we climb back up to a 12,000, 200 foot Peak and As I'm dropping down off this Edge, I'm getting more crampy feeling already and I'm just like not the same cramps that I had last time because it literally right after the, the first aid station. Last time I was I was like unable to run. I my my shin, my Tibbs were cramping so hard and so and we were just so painful that I couldn't run as well as just other. I think I had some other cramping at that point in the race but So, I'm like, feeling better than the year prior, but I'm still starting to get these little traces of cramping, so my strategy and that is to slow down drink more. And you know, I've got all of my mixes dialed as best as I can, and Just drink more, right? So, hydrate and Slow Down, slow down my effort and see what happens, the lower my heart rate, maybe a little bit, and I was, it was like, it was this, this section two races in a row, has been a very, very frustrating section for me, because it's like the turning point in both races where it's like, why are things going wrong this early? So yeah, I I get, you know, ran all the way to the bottom of the stinking and then turn to start climbing up. And then I'm just basically balancing hiking at a speed where I'm not feeling like I'm gonna cramp, but not like going as fast as I might could, which, again, at this point, like I'm still definitely trying to Pace myself. So it is a 3,000 foot climb, right? This section is there's like two, The race. This one is not really considered the Pinnacle because I think it's because it's so early in the race. But this section according to last year it's a basically 2,900 foot climb and a 2900 foot descent in eight miles. So it's just straight up or straight down this entire section and peek over 12,000 feet. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's brutally steep everywhere. You go on this section and yeah, so I mean for me at least I got through this section I did feel really good that on the other side of Delano. I was able to run down. I don't I don't know that like got me a ton of extra time or anything like that. But I was able to jog down that steep side and I was like well I couldn't do this last year so that last year I was had that injury and everyone was like are you okay I'm like stopped on the side on the downhill. Yeah. I was completely crouched down five or six times trying to Like stretch out and fix my leg and people were stopping and asking if I'd fallen and stuff like that. So so that was different. And then I got to the bottom And I couldn't have kirthi aid station but we could see crew like, on the roads. And so, I did see my, my family, my kids, my wife, my parents were there, you know, so I was able to see them for just a second on the road and then, and then keep going on. So,

[00:21:30] Tyler: how how to make you feel to see them, right? Thanks,

[00:21:36] Tayson: it's a very good motivational booster for sure. So I like came into their feeling really good, really strong. And then as soon as I left, I got up to like a seat part on the road and I cramped up, and then it was like, right back to the same stuff like gosh, dang, this is stupid. I'm like 15 miles in and, and again, just to go backwards for just a second. For me why this is so frustrating is one that happened to your previous. So, I trained for a year to try to overcome this kind of stuff with nutrition hydration and training. So I mean through the summer for May tell, you know, tell the race essentially, I was doing at least one run a week. Where I was getting 15 to 20 miles in and I was doing that with tons of vertical three to four thousand feet of vertical up and down faster, Pace than this, you know like everything was harder than this or tried to be harder than this in a more condensed time period. So to me this is just like So frustrating, right? And we'll, we'll talk more on that, but got to the Aid Station, went through it. My Snickers is melted in my drawback but other than that, it was good. That's a damper. Yeah. But Darren how did this section go for you?

[00:22:46] Darren: So the section going past Delano, I was the same. I actually started cramping on the way up and I took one of those straight to mouth STM packs and you know it's electrolytes. And that made things worse for me. Hey, I'll just like, gosh, did you eat any breakfast? Know, I never do. So it's like, I don't like to change it. I don't like to change it.

[00:23:10] Tayson: Just like to get a calorie deficit right out of the gate.

[00:23:13] Darren: Yeah. Yeah. I'm a glutton for punishment. So yeah. But anyway, I start cramping, this is dumb. And so like going up Delano. It took me way longer than it should have. I had to take like like Tayson and I just slow my Pace down and drink more water, and it was never as bad as On my Grand Canyon. When I talked to where my legs just would not work. I could always keep moving but I just, I could feel it the whole time. I was like, man, it's a better not happen the whole day. And it actually stopped about three-fourths up Delano. The best straight to mount. No, no. Is because I drink like a whole while at least a half liter of water like one. Of my house.

[00:23:57] Tayson: Do you know what you drink in that first section? How much Fluid like were you tracking anything like that?

[00:24:02] Darren: I drank two liters.

[00:24:05] Tayson: How much capacity you for me ever drink that much.

[00:24:08] Darren: Yeah, I drink two liters on that.

[00:24:09] Tyler: So you drink both flasks plus an extra.

[00:24:11] Darren: Yeah, I had my Hydra pack. What's it called? Yeah, CamelBak. Okay. Yeah. So that has two leaders in it and that was full my drink half of that, too. So, but On. Yes, I actually did. I usually

[00:24:26] Tyler: Darren doesn't eat or drink when we're

[00:24:28] Tayson: 30 miles?

[00:24:28] Darren: Yes. So I was doing better. I was thinking about that. So for the rest of the day I didn't take any more supplements and I never cramped up again after that did. So

[00:24:40] Tayson: did you like the gnarly? Electronic mixes at the Aid Station?

[00:24:44] Darren: The first one, the first aid station I had that and I was Gosh, that tastes gross, and then also that with the STM pack, I don't know, maybe that just caused some kind of imbalance. I mean, but I cramped up after that. Sell as soon as I work past it. I never cramped up for the rest of the day. I just drink water and technically, I did drink some Canada Dry later, but not at this point, but

[00:25:11] Tayson: you know, maybe, maybe this is the hard part here, but Maybe the problem with this section is that that first section you're so excited and the trail is so good and whatnot that we aren't realizing just what we're doing. Because when you think about it by the time we get to Delano which is still what I would consider feeling early in the race. Oh yeah. It is. We've climbed higher than climbing out of the South room of the Grand Canyon. Oh yeah. right, like we've already done 5,000 feet of climbing, so I don't know. Maybe we're just being overly hard on ourselves and we're not like miles 12

[00:25:48] Tyler: by 10, hit top of Delano.

[00:25:51] Tayson: Maybe 11:10. Yeah. Okay,

[00:25:53] Darren: play. One thing I could feel though is that the altitude? You know, like I could just feel my energy just not where it usually is as I got closer to the top and so I got used to it throughout the race, but I definitely felt it the most right there at the top of Delano. I don't know if you felt that way, but

[00:26:12] Tayson: I think my only thing that I can figure out is that it has. There's only two factors that I can think of that could have caused my cramping, especially that early in the race. One is like like a race Jitter like, you know, just like either a higher heart rate or things like that. But when I, when I was checking my heart rate, like, it didn't seem crazy high, like, it was definitely not like, You know, staying in the 150s or something like that. Like for most of this race. I think my actually my average heart rate, according to I need to say this, I am I used a COROS watch for this one, we're testing out COROS watches right now and set up my Garmin watch and there may be discrepancies in inaccuracy, right? But last year, my average heart rate for the whole race was 126 and they share it was 13. So like I had a lower heart rate throughout the whole race. So but it could be just like prerelease Jitters or the other thing is just I didn't do a lot of training at altitude at least one training. You know the week prior we did 100 miles on the Colorado Trail so I was at altitude a lot so acclimating to altitude. I think was there but I just Physically run at altitude saw. I kind of what you're saying right there. Like that could be one of the things that I have to chase down to learn more about my body is, Hey, like what happens to me when I run at 10,000 feet? Or 11 or 12,000 feet compared to. Six, seven, eight, you know,

[00:27:39] Darren: but for sure I think my COROS watch me like at one 10 for my average, for the day.

[00:27:47] Tayson: Yeah, so yeah. So it's not not crazy, high know, you know what I mean. Not crazy. High compared what it could be. So so you get up, Delano

[00:27:55] Darren: cramps? Yeah, it all passed by the time. Time at the top and then I was able to jog down, I it's pretty dang steep coming back down. So there's no running for me. Like, I, my whole goal for this race was not to get hurt. So like I just the whole goal was to finish. Okay, that's cool one and then gold too. I said on the last one was not gonna go. Three was to meet David Goggins at the Finish. Yeah. And I was, I was running with this guy, his name was Tim, he was a good guy. And there was some flags all over this out house. Like this, this bathroom out there. All right, oh, we gotta turn. Here, we actually went on the skyline Trail. Yeah, so we, we turned the wrong direction and My watch wasn't give me any notifications that we were going the wrong way and so we're like, where is the flags? And he's like, Is he's like I don't know. I was like, okay, well let's look at our phones and we had to backtrack. So we actually ran half a mile in the wrong direction, I had to get back on trail. So the things we learned, you know, this. Remember this is my first Ultra, my first race. Oh, I'm learning, I'm learning. It was this guy's first Hunter. He did the 70k last year and this is his first 100. So

[00:29:18] Tayson: Um, but we got back. Oh, drink. Well, yeah,

[00:29:21] Darren: it did. Well. I actually ran past your family. During this section, they were hiking up to go meet you and I was feeling great. You know, like nothing was hurting. Everything was going good. I was drinking. I was eating my Skittles and like

[00:29:37] Tayson: a full pound of Skittles in his Best pocket the night when I,

[00:29:42] Darren: it was don't knock it until you try. It's good all day but I did. But yeah, I ended up getting to that next day station. And it it was, it was fine. It worked out really good.

[00:29:55] Tayson: Any like idea of how much fluid you can see Leader one leader in that whole section. I'm pretty sure it's just a later.

[00:30:06] Darren: For the rest of the reasons for the rest of the race for each station, it was a leader to a liter and a half, but I mean each one. Yeah. But the thing is, that's not all I had. When I get to the aid stations, I would drink a full liter right when I got there and have them refill, everything and then I'd like, have like a cup for their Canada Dry or something. So I hydrated at the aid stations, and then In between, I have about another liter and a half.

[00:30:33] Tayson: Yeah. Very interesting. So I guess going out of there, you went to a different aid station. This is this is where the 100K versus the 70k start to deviate. I went up to a station called Mud Lake, which you go to next after this internment or eight station. But yeah, so I get up there. I I fill up my stuff. So, my, my whole thing was I was feeling up a two liter water bladder In my backpack, every time with my mixes and then one liter on my chest essentially to 500, or milliliter flask. So I was carrying three liters between every station and my first two stations. I finished it in under both. So getting the first one, I had finished, my three liters getting through up in all the Delano, I finished that one. So you know I'm six liters in by the time I get to Mud Lake refill with my three liters and at this point, I'm thinking I'm cramping up. Pretty significantly right before the 8th station and so I'm thinking I just have to drink more. And this next aid station this next section. I thought that I was going to be able to run it even faster. The year previous I ran it in two hours so I was kind of hoping I could I could do that again and potentially. I don't know, you know, hydrate a little bit extra getting that leader and a half per hour that I was aiming for. So I had out of there, I do that section and I was the same thing. I was able to move down the mountain, really quite effectively running and so that the first part of this section went really well, got to The Climb and I had to dial it back to not cramp. I

[00:32:28] Tyler: well, this is a big climb because you're dropping down to Blue Lake, right? And 1600 feet down, 1600 feet up. Yeah, so it's it's it's it's another really steep one coming out of there.

[00:32:39] Tayson: It's fairly steep. It's the easiest to this point though. Like of the first three seconds. Yeah, yeah. It is the easiest that I had been to. So it's kind of like, oh, I know this section is easy and I did it really well, the last time. So I was expecting another really good segment here and I actually just pulled this these stats together, so this is new information for me, but it looks like I ran it 30 minutes slower. Now some caveats here, So one climbing out of it on the last climate out of it, I feel super good and I remember just charging up the mountain. Passing people feeling really good this time, I passed like one guy and was just again, riding that line of cramping. So I was, I was when I get two crampy, I'd slowed down a little bit and just take a few sips of water and then I had kind of slowly ease Pace back up. I think I only had this fully stopped once or twice to let a cramp pass. But it held me back. But this section also had about 0.6.7 miles of extra mileage because they moved the Aid Station because they claim they couldn't get to the other spot. So because of snow Which I would argue now after being up there it was, it was gone, it melted plenty. So, They added an extra, I mean, on the day that adds an extra like 1.2 miles to my race. So there is and at the average pace of the day and whatnot, that might have added 20 minutes. So I might have just done this section more like 10 minutes, ish slower. But I was actually I'm kind of surprised here and look at this because I'm like, Oh I thought I would have cut off a little bit of time in that section but it looks like the climb out, cost me. You know, it's funny how you always see the things that you can't do and think that those would be the biggest improvements, right? So, last year, when I was unable to run, it was like well, if I could have run I would have made up hours of time, right? And then this year when it's like well I can run if it's flat or downhill but then the climbing I can't do very well without cramping, you know then it's in. You just you just kind of know, it all is interesting, right? But so, I get through that section, I finished the three liters of water and it is hot by this Solder. Like just Yeah, very palpably. It was it was hotter. The three liters went down. Pretty dang, easily. I would say and the next aid station is just hot and exposed in the sun. I remember getting to that 8 station and looking around at people and just seeing That they were like low on fluids and they're hot and there's a kid that that I had run this race with the year previous, he finished just a little bit after me. So very similar time and you know, he was there like not looking good and I'm like, you stroke. Yeah. Like really red looking and he was pulling a shoe off and he was having some issues and I actually ran part of that section with him talking with him. And then we kind of separated, but yeah, when he got in there, I kind of walked over and just looked out of his grandma stuff off the table and he just didn't look like he was in a good spot and I said like, yeah, it's like it's so hot out here. I'm like guys. Like I ran out of water on that climb. I'm like yeah I was in surprise me. I'm like I'm carrying three leaders between each section and he's like he's like well I was like yeah I'm taking 50 Oz and I'm like that's a lot for usually like for usual but I think if I didn't do my math, right? I was carrying closer to 90 ounces and I was still finishing 90 ounces. And this kid's, I mean, he's probably a little bit smaller than me but not not significantly, right? Especially like, like Weight Wise. He's probably similar. And so, you know, he's he's 40 oz under me in that section and Anyway, so I just remember kind of seeing some of those things and that he ended up dnfing. He didn't he didn't finish this year versus last year, he finished, right? So just it was brutally, brutally hot. Yeah, well,

[00:36:46] Tyler: last year you guys were Kind of dancing with storms the whole day, like, it was overcast and the clouds were moving all around. And I don't know how you didn't get a bunch of rain because I was watching it really close last year and you're like, no, we didn't get that much but I didn't have to be right now. Stood. Yeah, I had to be like, yeah. When we were, when we were alive on the start line. Yeah. Getting hammered. Yeah, so that had to be good for at least 15 degrees cooler.

[00:37:18] Tayson: Well, I think it probably, it probably pulled like yeah, like 10 degrees off the mountain but not only that last year versus this year, we've been having like a heat wave, you know, I mean, we were just in Colorado sleeping at 10 12,000 feet and can't get in our top quilts because we're so hot, right? Like I'm never in my life had that and it's and it's just kind of been the theme here. So I think just overall, we're probably averaging five plus, you know, five to eight degrees hotter every day to this. Summer. But not, but then mix that with the lack of the rain dancing. And so, yeah, I think it was probably about a 10 to 15 degree different swing for me year over year that year. It was, it was hard. So, so anyways, how did this sections? Go for you? So, you essentially, from your spot went from the skyline aid station up to the Mud Lake and then over to the Bullion one that I was that I just. Yeah so

[00:38:17] Darren: I mean that was it was a good section. So we did go over to Mud Lake and that was a tough hike just getting over to Mud Lake. I this hiked that sick like we've hiked we had there is a climb, it is. And so at this point at this age station, the guy Tim that I was hiking with, he he stopped he tapped at that point, like really mud. He tapped him, mud

[00:38:40] Tayson: was what was he struggling with? He

[00:38:42] Darren: started cramping, you know, and in between stations there. So he stopped and I just kept on going. I kept on like, as far as like hydration wise kept doing the same as what I had been doing to drink. When I had refilling it, the stations and then just kind of eating my snacks. Like kept going, I do remember on the section though that I was wearing my altitude hoodie. And there's bugs everywhere like this horse flies, and yeah. So he's like, Something. Stung my arm and my arm went numb, right? Like I don't know what that was but I could barely grip my trekking pole during this day this section and it went away. But I do remember just like Custom really loud. Kept on going, but that was the most memorable part of that section. For me is just like man my arm doesn't work you know and I was using my arms a lot with those trekking poles. Keep my body going and drag. Yeah so much. So going down to Blue Lake that section is actually good going down like that flu but at the bottom like Tayson said, it was hot like if I like hell on Earth and

[00:39:55] Tayson: it's like exposed, yeah, the rocks are just

[00:39:59] Darren: Collecting back. They're absorbing the Heat and then it's reflecting a lot of black shell. Yeah. And right back at you. And there was this another guy sorry, you know, running with and he seemed like he was in great shape and he was running the whole time and I'll just keeping up with this guy and I think that he had dehydration because right when we started climbing out of that, he like just stopped, like He didn't have to and so as far as I crossed, yeah, like here place to draw so there's no one get me out. Yeah, exactly. He still got a hike back up to get to Bullion. That was the only one to and so, that was exactly. Yeah, well, it was like, the very end. So we already passed the lake and we made it to that at least, that easier and stuff like a four-hour car ride. Yeah. But I just remember like trudging up that last Road thinking it was never gonna end just because it's so hot but I did it well. Um, and it was a hot part of the day. But I do remember at this point of the day for me, it started to get a little bit overcast and that really helped me out.

[00:41:05] Tayson: So Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, so I guess from Bullion I'll let you I'll let you do this section. I guess, I'll let you keep talking because this is here. Yeah, this is where the 100K guys deviate once again from the 70k course, they do an out and back. It's super easy, right?

[00:41:27] Darren: So at this point, super easy. This point is where you realize how far behind the pack you actually are and you see everyone because everyone is coming back, that's done. You're just like, you're like oh four miles telling you. How are you on your way back and dang? Yes. So I'm just starting and there's all these guys coming back like oh man I'm Going way farther than I thought, you know, and I'm not really, I'm just trying to go. So you walk all the way down Bullion. and I, all the road for a while, and then you cut off the road and then you like,

[00:42:07] Tayson: Like Copper Bell is that water drop right there. Yeah. So the water drop, let's try to frustrating about this is from where you're sitting at the age station. You can price see where you're turning around. Like the entire. Yeah,

[00:42:21] Darren: you can see the whole cross, the

[00:42:23] Tayson: big Basin to the big peak, and it's like Well, that's where we're headed. Like and

[00:42:29] Darren: so, I did my same thing at Bullion. I got, you know, drink my leader of water there and I filled up and I went. And then the next aid station actually comes up pretty quick where they have the water drop. It's like only four miles down the road, and You hardly drink anything cuz you're going downhill. It's a road and it wasn't that bad. And so I distinctly remember there was someone coming out that was filling up her water and she's like you're gonna want to fill up I'm like Oh my bottles are basically full. I'll be fine. And so I just kind of blew past that water drop and I just kept on going and then you walk into you get to the base of this mountain and then it's just a shale. Bald Mountain. Nothing of Hill. And Bob Tree Line. Probably some mountain goats. Yeah, I didn't see anything. Like so if they're there

[00:43:20] Tayson: Mountain crazy waiting for the runners to know. Exactly.

[00:43:26] Darren: So I actually did see a spring coming out of the mountain. I didn't know it was a spring. I thought it might have just been running off. And so the trail kind of zigzags back and forth. Going up these switchbacks That the water wasn't above the Switchback. So I'm like, okay on my way back down, I'm gonna get some water here from the spring and that was like one of the best things I ever did. It was best water of the day, but ended up getting up there. And there is this another Guy saying. This is the worst part of my day, you know, trying to get up this mountain. He's like and at the very end of it, they just punch your your bib with a little stamp, you know, and like that's it. No. Hugs or this. Yeah, exactly champagne. No hugs or water up there. Like it's the I said Death, March the end of that. So right up, a peek and back down. Exactly. And then at this point, there is like I saw maybe three people behind me and on my way back. I got some water from that spring and I didn't pass another 100K coming up. Oh my oh man. I'm like the back of the pack. So, a little on that out of the 103 people that signed up to the 100k. 46 either didn't show up or dnf'd. And so I don't feel too bad about where I ended up on this race so like the 50% drop rate about. So

[00:44:52] Tyler: yeah. When you're seeing that you're like at the back of the pack like that so

[00:44:56] Darren: yeah what do you think? I had no idea. I'm like oh my gosh like how slow am I? Because I did not feel I was going slow at all. Yeah. Right. And I was just keeping it a pace. I was like, okay, I just got to keep doing what I can do comfortably and not get hurt, just keep on going. And so at this point I'm just kind of demoralizing thinking. If I can say ahead of those guys, I'm gonna finish. And so that that was my goals. Like I'm gonna stay ahead of those people behind me. So

[00:45:21] Tyler: mi, what how many miles would you be at? When you hit to the top, the top of Copper Bell, you know, I could reverse into it, I could find out You're probably around. 20. 23 minus 60. So he's like my 40 time. It's back to Bullion a second time. Yeah Mi 40 out of 65 essentially. Yeah. So how so, how much gas do

[00:45:50] Tayson: you have crazy to think about when you're there? I'm almost like I would be in the last segment of that race. See?

[00:45:59] Darren: That was the thing, like it was plenty of day that was plenty of daylight, you know, like I was actually thinking and I was like, yes, I would be about done with Tayson’s race. If I was doing the 45 Mi right now It's like when I got back to Bullion, I was like, well I just got this. So I was feeling great. I actually ran across the Tayson’s cousin at this point. Oh did Jesse, and he was just, was he at the Aid Station? He was walking past it.

[00:46:26] Tyler: So like leaving it. Yeah, as you were leaving it too. Well, I was getting back to it. Oh yeah. So he's just leaving, you're just getting there. So he's like what? 10 minutes up the trail from you? Yeah. Really. Okay,

[00:46:38] Darren: so we were pretty close. When I when I saw him leaving from that section, so

[00:46:42] Tyler: energy wise, how much energy did you feel? Like you had

[00:46:45] Darren: I was I was dehydrated at this point I know that but energy was beasting yeah these things that bother you at this point. No I was more. I

[00:46:59] Tyler: got stung by a bee that day and my leg is still fat. Yeah, my whole ankle, I stop swelling but yeah, I like second cousin got stung by bee and said he couldn't breathe the rest of the race. He was like super sketch. I think that's called anaphylactic shock and

[Editor’s note: Trouble breathing after a sting can be life-threatening and requires emergency action; continuing is not a safe model.]

[00:47:16] Darren: I don't know. Ultra Runners. Don't listen to any doctors. All right. Yeah. I was like, okay, that pain is gonna help me go further. Yeah, I'm gonna be 100% off. I

[00:47:30] Tayson: I like Super feel bad for you, like just realizing that you're there. And nearly to the end of like, my race is. Is just insane. Like why? Because you're thinking he would have had a good time on the 70, know what I'm thinking is, About how demoralizing it would be to be there and know what I still had ahead of me. Oh, like I, I can't wrap my head around that. So essentially what that would mean is that About halfway to the next aid station, so me and both. So if we leave bullion, we're headed to this a station called Minor's Park and it's about seven and a half feet miles away and so my thought would be that halfway through that you know that would be the 45 mile Mark. Probably not the same climbing or whatever but like That's that's just. that's I'm trying to because like because what happens is like later in the race when I'm running, I just keep thinking about Darren, and honestly, Darren I'm thinking I hope Darren drops. Like, not not because I don't want you to finish but because I'm like, It's gonna hurt him like like this is just too hard today. This is they just the race. They put together the extra miles the extra climbs. He like, I'm I don't know how it would be physically possible to do the 100K, like because I knew I couldn't do it right. So like my thought was I couldn't do the 100K. There's no way I could have done it. Like without just just destroying myself and so my thought was like I just and I know you and I know that you won't drop. So my thought was like gosh I hope Darren just just if he gets to a position I hope he will drop instead of do something stupid like that. Like yeah, like die on the mountain. I'm here. So I got, that's what I was thinking and I was thinking that later in the race. But anyway, so we run down to minors. I, this is a section that really pissed me off, mentally. The reason is last year, I wasn't able to run this section because my legs were all messed up and hurting so bad. And I just, I mean, I just couldn't run period and you can go back and listen to all the details on that, but I was able to run this time. So I'm jogging down the trail and like it's not easy and it's not fun. It's like it's like the grind and the pain cave. But I'm, I'm jogging down, I'm moving quick, and I'm like sweet, like, I'm gonna get down there quick. So, I text my family. I'm like, I think I'm gonna be there, like, three, ten making good time and Then like a couple miles down the trail, also the natural just gets steep as can be loose. You know, like loose dirt, loose rocks and it's getting so steep that I have to pull my trekking poles back out because I'm like this is this is actually difficult without some extra stabilization with where my legs are at, right? There's caution signs up there, you know, there's Cliffs. If you don't too far, you're gonna die, you fall off the cliff. So I was very frustrated because by the time I got to the end of this section, you know I'm still fighting cramps, those never go away and And it didn't run the section as fast as I thought I could. And I was like, dang it. You know, it's one of those things going back to her like when you can't do something, you think you can like, you know, so I thought the whole section was gonna be super runnable. I haven't told other Runners like can we run this section on all totally? This sections. Gonna go be the fastest of the race. It's all downhill, it's all runnable and then you get there in your life. Well, like 25% of it was from, you know. So I was very just, like mentally frustrated. I remember at this point I tried to like squat down next to a creek and just just Get water and throw it on me and I started cramping up. And so I'm like, well screw that like that's not worth it. And so I remember this section being really hot for me. Because it can be pretty dang exposed as well. Also watched a Life Flight helicopter, circling around a bunch and pick someone up. So someone was, you know, dnf in and getting Life Flight out of their hope. They're all right, but Just a brutal. Brutal day and a section. I felt like should have been easy. Ended up being fairly brutal. We dropped 30 at least for me, I dropped. Well, both of us in the section, it would have been over 3200, feet of descent and 400 feet of climbing. So almost no climbing. Comparatively on the day that puts you around, 8,000 feet. So at this point descent, I have descended 9,400 feet.

[00:52:11] Tyler: Well, I mean I mean you're You're elevation there would have been right around 8000 feet. Yes,

[00:52:18] Tayson: yes, so much right on Monster clients coming up. After that hottest Modeling Monster to say the least. So get a Minor's Park. I'm like 30 plus minutes behind where I thought I was gonna be meeting the family because this is the one aid station, they can actually crew and help. And so I get in there and sit down and I am feeling significantly better than the year previous meaning. I'm not slurring my speech. Yes. Wasn't know. My face isn't numb and Twitchy. I can still fill my fingers, you know, and I've been drinking, I've been hitting my marks. So at this point in the day let's see. There's one, two, three, Four. So I drink in 12 liters of water by this point in the day, it's 3:40 or something when I get in there. So it's like, I've been putting water down, doing all this kind of stuff. I've been getting calories in. And so, in a lot of ways, I was in a much better position, getting to this point. But again just just cramping, right? So sat there for a minute. This was the I took my longest break here. I tried to break this down, I don't find it fully accurate but looks like I took a 20 minute break here. They don't feel like that but you know, and I think there's some starting stop to lay on trying to pull extrude that out of a watch very well, but took a longer break here, eight drink a part of a monster and fill up my my stuff and and then took off out of there for me, when I left this aid station, I had a Pacer now. So this is the first time I've ever run with the Pacer But Eric for those of you guys that have watched some of our previous videos, Eric has come on trips with us. He did rim to rim to rim with us, is a buddy of mine from from high school and college. And so he came down to do the last 16 miles with me in Pace me. So I picked up him at that point, but I would say like if I'm sitting there in that chair at that point and I'm looking at what I've got ahead of me, I'm thinking. Oh yeah, like I'm not as far ahead of my Pace last year's. I thought I would be at this point but last year this is where my whole race went to crap. Like like I I literally on the like on the last section. So I so the last section is the first section. You just run it backwards, right? And so, I think about it, like, in the first app, the first time of the day, you run it two hours. Well, last year, when I was going backwards down on it, which is actually a net decent versus a net gain. It took me three and a half hours. That's how much slower I was first to last section last time. So I'm thinking, you know, like I'm gonna I'm gonna shave off like big time on all of these sections. Um, so I'm feeling good as I'm sitting there and yeah, Darren how did that section go for you and how are you feeling at Miners Park?

[00:55:08] Tyler: So from Bullion to Miners Park, right? We're, it's a big downhill. Down Mountain down. Simon call Hill down here. Down the freaking Mountain. Yeah. So

[00:55:21] Tayson: The times hot, dude, we gotta say this, we passed some ladies on horses. This is the best part. We've passed in these ladies on horses. They're just riding up looking all good. Got their makeup on their cowgirl hats. On their boots. On these nice horses. They're drinking their white Claws and we're like she's just like, What the heck? Are we doing here? I don't know. That looks that looks amazing. You know, she stops a pet horse for a while like. Alright guys, I gotta get out like, stand for 10 minutes for a horse stop. So I'm like trying to get her out on them and Get around them and making catches back up and no no before that though they're like oh you guys are almost there. You're almost there and we're like Yeah. Like and they're like, aren't you excited? We're like, well, that's just the next eight station. Like, well, where's the end of your race? And we're like, oh, we got onto the bottom here. And then we climb back up to the ski resort and both of these cowgirls faces look like they just They just start dropping profanities like, what?

[00:56:25] Tyler: In the heck? You're like, we've been telling everyone that they're almost done with their race because we're just running down the canyon and that's it. You know, we still have 16 miles, we gotta climb to the top of this mountain again. Oh yeah, it was it was so That's funny. Anyways. Yeah, I had spots to be on a horse, for sure. Yeah. And times a day, I mean, you got to think of this like Tayson is probably getting here.

[00:56:58] Tayson: I just, I got two miners park at about 3:30.

[00:57:03] Tyler: Okay,

[00:57:03] Darren: for me getting to my Miners Park, I was starting to run the dark.

[00:57:07] Tayson: At this point. Yeah

[00:57:08] Darren: it was getting dark for me at this point so on the way down yeah it was a really nice gradual downhill until I got to that steep spot that Tayson was talking about. And I just slowed right down and I'm full on using a headlamp at this point. And so that was that was slow going and pretty sketch. Because this point, it did start raining on me.

[00:57:31] Tayson: Yeah. Right. Is it got dark?

[00:57:32] Darren: It's our reigning on me at this point and I was like me. So good. But it was dark and I had this, you know, all on me. And, you know, I was just like, okay, and it was good until I got to the bottom and then I was like, Man, I am tired. I get to the bottom

[00:57:50] Tayson: place to realize you're tired when you have a 4000 climate. Yeah. And I don't know how much earlier I was from the very bottom of that to get to the a station, maybe like another mile or something like that. but, As it was like, 30 PM or no, probably nine-ish when you're right. Yeah.

[00:58:10] Darren: 9 p.m. it's like at this point for sure. Hit my first wall like, I got my phone out thinking I was gonna text my wife saying, I don't know if I can do this. I didn't know service. So I'm just gonna keep going. not even like 30 seconds later I see the bright lights of that age station and I was like, oh, Thank goodness, you know. And I was like kind of oh, so kind of back up. Back up the trail, I see like these random dark piles like in the road.

[00:58:45] Tayson: Wait, you're not it. This is the former still, so this was right before miles, so the second to the last date station, right? Yeah. Okay. So yeah, when you see

[00:58:56] Darren: piles and there's like someone who's puking, I was like, that's kind of gross but it's black. and I get to the Aid Station, you know, after I had my little wall there and I sit down and I start relaxing. And this guy asks like how you doing? Like I'm tired it's like and I'm feeling queasy but I'm still doing good. Like I'm glad to be here. I was way more moralized because I had the Food, like the drinks that are going on there and so I still feel really good.

[00:59:28] Tayson: For pickles. Oh yeah. Pickles and JS pickles on PB and Jack and

[00:59:33] Darren: get this point anymore, but I could still do the pickles. So I see this guy and he's like how you feeling like I'm doing good and how you? And he's like, I'm not good at all. He's like, I've been throwing up blood And he's like, just black tar on my tap and he's like, yeah, I've got to, he's like I can't go any further, it's not worth it. So I was like man that is too bad to hear, you know, I just felt really bad for this guy. Look like he did awesome for the whole race. He seemed like he was in good spirits. It's like, but he just that was it for him and so, at this point, I'm kind of Wait, did I messed that up? Or is this? I think I missed that mess that up.

[01:00:18] Tayson: Yeah I thought that was before all unite. Yeah it was. From minors, minors is the one in the very bottom before the massive climb on the studio. I mean, the Fantastic room. So yeah, this is what this would have been at minors. This is when you're in the bottom of a canyon.

[01:00:38] Darren: Okay, so when I think he's still messed up no, no, no, no, I got it, right? So this this is the second to the last eight station. Yeah. So this is where this guy was speaking. So that's right. Okay. And so I thought really bad for him and at this point I'm just feeling queasy but I knew that there was going to be a freaking big hike you know coming up like that's they all kind of warn me that this was coming up so this is

[01:01:01] Tayson: better than the race. Yeah this is the Pinnacle of the race. You climb four thousand feet straight up like straight up gnarly switchbacks and then the switch back stop and it's just straight up. So yeah this is what most people call the Pinnacle, the races, where most people blow up have issues. Because on the 70 km, 30 miles in, you would be at like almost a high 40s at this point. So, yeah, like a lot of people, this is where it's like, if you weren't fueling all day, if you weren't, you know, eating all day like you're, you're gonna have your issues. So, yeah, but getting into miners, how are you feeling this? I thought about tapping, but no

[01:01:46] Darren: service, no service. I was like, I'm just gonna keep going. I have to hike at here anyways, like it's I didn't not a bad place to tap. I did, I did not know how the tap system worked, either. So you just leave man, I just keep on going. So I just I gonna just keep on going. I so I wasn't there for very long ten minutes tops, really? That's like where most people take a pretty significant sit. Now eat drink. yeah, like I I tried to just keep going, that was my main thing and so just kept going into this point. This big climb just continuing on It started dumping rain on me, man.

[01:02:26] Tayson: It's the worst time to get rained on. Yeah. Mentally like morally, it was dark. So he couldn't see how tall the mountain was about him.

[01:02:34] Darren: Yo, what's worse? Seeing the headlamps all the way at the top. Yeah. And you're like, oh my gosh, I have so far to go and this is not easy. And so that that was the worst. I hiking in the rain was a godsend because all day long had been so hot. Yeah. And so whenever it rained I was like open it up. Yes. I come get me embrace. Yeah.

[01:03:02] Tayson: well, this section for me was The worst those cramps I've been, you know, trying to avoid all day. This is when they really bit me so heading out a minor so, you know, Spirits were high, I was feeling good, lots of lots of positive thinking. There's no way I'm not gonna, you know, improve time and at this point too. It's like, I know I did an extra mile of running, you know, 1.2 miles or more of running, So that's going to be 20 to 25 minutes of extra time. And I know it's been crazy hot. That's something I can't control. And so I'm just thinking like, you know, any improvement over last year, I'm going to be happy with You know or happy you're with. And so at this point it's just like but I'm still thinking like man I'm gonna shave off an hour in the last section. I'm gonna probably gonna shave off time here and like I'm gonna still have this kind of goal because I kind of had a goal of Shaving about two hours off of my time last year and 17 hours pretty much even. And this year I was like man if I could run it in 15, I feel really happy with that. Well, take off out of minors and we get going and I'm like, cramping right out of the gate, and I'm just like, Eric, you're gonna hate this because, like, he's been waiting all day to go running, you know what I mean? And then it's like, all right, let's go, but let's not go. You can just, you know, go super, slow stand here. And anyway so we're going and I am like fighting these cramps. I'm we end up walking with that girl Megan again for a little bit and After a while my main you're just gonna have because the first, she's like, if you want to go faster, you can. And I was like, I might pass you because I feel like I can go faster, and then like, five minutes later, I'm like, nope, I'm gonna cramp up, go ahead without us, you know, and so, it's just really frustrating because, like, from an energy perspective and like, I feel like from a strengths perspective, like could have could have easily, you know, kicked it up a notch and cruised out of there. And Anyway, so it became really frustrating to me because last year we went and walked a road up the mountain. This year they got private access. And this is the normal route last year was the exception. So this year, we were walking, this old mining Road. Well, something about an old mining Road is it's not a road because it's no longer in use. It's also not a trail because it's on private property and so no one's allowed on the road unless you have special access, which means that it's nothing but weeds and and Fallen trees. And, you know, it's like the forest service is coming in and cutting out any trees, and it's not like anyone's, you know what I mean? So, the only thing you're following is where other Runners have gone and beaten down the weeds in front of you. So I'm like getting frustrated because it's like man, I really wish we were on the other Road plus plus, not to mention last year we went around this peak called Edna Peak. And this year, we had to go all the way up and over the top of Edna Peak which Added 500, more feet of climbing to the race. Which is just like we didn't need any more climbing like race is climbing and now we've got another 500. So it gets really tough. I get about a third of the way up. This climb, I go to I stand on one. Log to step over another massive log, and my leg just starts cramping like crazy then. And then, like, midair the next leg starts cramping. So I literally just tumble off of this log onto my back and scrape up my hand and I can't move. Like, because what happens to me when I get to this point is anything that I move will start to lock up and cramp. Whether it's my ab muscles, my back muscles, my IT band my leg, my calf, my foot, whatever it is I try to move will cramp. So I'm just laying on my back, trying to breathe through these Credibly, painful, cramps Eric. These ones at least Eric was there. And he like, tried to stretch out my calf, which did help. Help him pass, but then I'm just laying there. I'm like, I can't get up. And I don't dare move because if I move all cramp. And so I laid there and I just was looking at up, I laid there for over 15 minutes. I couldn't I couldn't move. Meanwhile, some guy wanders up, you know, the he's coming off the mountain and he's saying, yeah I just did a pulse ox which is like measuring how much your your blood oxygen content is and he was in this in the 60s which is like Yeah. Like usually like you said it this morning that if you're in the 80s you typically go to the hospital. well, this guy's in the 60s so he's tapping out, he's going down the mountain and he can't even pass this because I'm laying in the only way to get across this This log field so he's just like, hey just take your time. Like I'm I'm tapping out so it doesn't really matter like I need to get to lower elevation but I'm okay. And as he's standing there, he's finally. He's like, I think I know who you are. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like yeah he's like I've watched you guys's videos before I saw you did RIM. You know. I'm like oh man. And then he looks at Eric. He's like okay you were there too. Oh It's like okay sweet. Like here's this guy, does YouTube and he just laying here like a freaking sack of potatoes on track looking like an idiot stuck in between the ground. Dude, it was the worst. So I'm in the best part. Yeah yeah we turned the camera off. Really is out there. Um yeah so just it was just horrible so that I get up finally just keep moving down the trail and I'm just fighting these cramps. Matta's, kid named Alex who from Bozeman really? Really cool kid. He'd hit a really hard Cal wall at minors and so he was he was just nursing it in, you know, to finish. We spent a lot of miles with him at the top of this. But yeah, I mean we were just It was so steep. Like I I wish I could show you guys just how steep this is but you have to. So if you were to think about this, So it's seven and a half miles from 8 Station, 8 station, two and a half, come after the peak. So, in five to five and a half miles, you climb, 4,000 feet. So every mile of your climbing, a thousand feet vertically, which is just astronomically Steep and this this road sucks. I'm climbing. Oh you know, we're climbing over branches climbing over crap and then you like do all these switchbacks and then at the very end, they just say screw it. We're going straight up the mountain. And like, so I'm looking at these people ahead of me and they're just vertical above you and you're like really like not a Switchback. Like we're just coming off the Colorado trail with like these beautiful engineered bike trails and it's like these were phenomenal Trails like no rocks? No, nothing great, switch backs. And now it's just like Straight. I mean, you I don't think that the miners could have got up this road without a tracked vehicle, like they would have had, like, a, like a tractor with, with the tracks on it, not Wheels because it was just that steep. Oh yeah. And so anyways, I get through that section starts raining on me right at the top, you know, just just right in time to be the good lightning rod and then and then we drop straight off the other side and get over to the aid station for me. This section. It was just the worst. It was the absolute worst year over year. The previous year. I did this section in three hours and 21 minutes. And if you remember from last year, I had a massive Gallery wall and hydration wall. Had a ton of issues and lost the, like, probably lost 30 minutes of time in this section. So I was already thinking, like, I only have up to go in this section, like, I'm gonna improve my time in this section because I'm not hitting a cal wall. I've been putting down tons of calories all day. I mean, I say tons of calories but I've been putting down between 500 and 1000 calories between 8 stations, which is a lot like most Runners are not doing that. I was doing that. I was drinking 500 liquid calories between 8 stations plus what I could eat. So I mean I was doing everything I could because I wanted to not hit a gallery wall in this climb and kill it. So what ended up happening though, is I did this section in four hours and one minute to go eight miles. Just stand still Pace, last traded it in three hours and 21 minutes. So, not only did I not beat last year, but I lost 40 minutes of time in one segment laying on the ground. You know? Yeah. Just I think we're gonna have to teach are some pacing.

[01:12:03] Tyler: Yeah, some pacing. What do you mean? Eric was Eric was fine. He wasn't pulling or pushing me. I know one could pull her pushing me. I was hating this. I'm not talking, I'm not doing anything but whining. You know, like this is a sucky section, man. But anyways, so that was my section.

[01:12:22] Darren: Yeah, it was the same for me like other than all the rain I get It was a basically the same as how you described it. I mean you laid in the middle and I wanted to it's like but I at this point like going up this steep last bulldozer section. I just wanted to die, I was so queasy and I just like, I was drinking the water I had. But I just like I can only drink so much because nothing sounds good at this point. and, Yeah, I mean there's not a lot for me to even add on this section other than I hated it. Hated it. I hated every piece of that uphill like just so demoralizing watching those Those lights way ahead of me. And at this point, I actually kind of banded together with, like, four people that we'd hiked with quite a bit. And there was this one lady that. On the flats and going downhill. Like I felt like I was an hour ahead of her but as soon as we were going uphill, she just had to steady. Strong pace, and she'd be right there with me and I was like, I just need to do what she's doing because she seems like a lot more energy than I do at that. Nice. Steady Pace because I would go as fast. Like I could when I could and then I slowed right back down, going up, hills especially those steep up hills, but when we got to that last all, you know, aid station, That's, that's one stuff. Sorry, it happened in for me. So So what kind of stuff here? So like I was saying I was feeling really queasy and I was like man I'm thirsty and that Canada. Dry sure tastes a good last time. So the first thing I wanted was Just to drink some of that. And I took a sip. And then I immediately started throwing up, like I was like, oh crap, I gotta go behind this tent, and I went behind, and I was throwing up and I was throwing up blood and it was quite a bit and looked like coffee grounds and I look like tar and I was like oh man and this Worker. That was there, that was helping and volunteering. She comes back, she's like, you need to come lay down. I'm like, I need you like and she's like, no, you need to come lay down, I was like, well, I've got a really finish the race and She's like, well, come lay down for a few minutes and see if

[Editor’s note: Vomiting blood or coffee-ground-like material can be a medical emergency; continuing is not a safe model.]

[01:14:46] Darren: you feel any better. And I get laying down like she checks on me and she's like, I don't know if you should finish this. I'm like Well, see how I feel and like she kind of walked around the corner to help some other Runners that were getting to the tent and she was looking away, like, I gotta go and so I get up and go over that little electronic scanner, to make sure they knew I was in between Aid stations and I kept going. But I don't know if there's the smartest thing because I knew I was throwing up blood at this point and I was just tired and not feeling good. Felt a lot better after I threw up though. So that was that was helpful. It gives me a little boost. I filled up my Waters and I just kept going. probably took me just as long as you to get up that though, about four hours, if not more like, and so I knew so, when we actually, Got going. Again, I was able to call Danny and I let her know like this is my wife. Danny And I let her know that I'll probably be done between three and four in the morning. That was my estimate. I didn't realize kind of what was left his last mile, 8 Mile Run and yeah, that's kind of kind of left off on that action, so

[01:16:04] Tayson: yeah, so for me in that 8 station and it's called Alunite, or Alunite Two because it's your second time in Chair like out of the wind and I sat down and it was like it was just so nice to sit there for a second. People help me fill a bottles. They're so helpful. I mean, all the volunteers were just so helpful throughout the day. Aaron comes and sits by me. I think I might have called him Alex earlier. So it's Aaron Pacers Aaron. He's sitting next to me and this other kid sit next to me. And I'm like, dude, what are you doing here? It's a kid that Tyler you met last year. We sold product to he then went and bought more products. So he was like running in our altitude. Hoodie was using our Tushar Rain Jacket. And I'm like, what are you doing here? Like, because last year, he ran in 14 hours which was a very, very admirable time for the 70k and he's like, I'm dropping. I'm like, why are you dropping? He's like, I just You know, it's it's rougher here. I was ahead of pace and I just blew up and I'm like, dude, like Don't drop like this is the worst place you could possibly drop. It's like I've already been sitting here an hour and a half, you know. And I gotta I gotta drive to Kansas from moving tomorrow and I might Do you realize like it's over a three-hour car ride? From here to there and there's not even a car here to take you, right? Like I'm like, this is it might as well walk there you said, I said you might as well walk and he's like, no, no, no. Then he like leaves. And I'm like, I turned to Aaron and I'm like, I'm not as scared him off. Like, you know, he likes us and he liked me before. I'm like, I might have been too harsh on him or something he leaves. And I fill up my stuff and he comes back and I'm like, dude, I'm just gonna say this, like I'm being too harsh, tell me to shut the heck up on my walk out of here with us and finish this race and he's like I'm gonna do it. Yeah, like sweet man. So me Eric Aaron and I'm gonna forget his name. Dang it. But he cruised out of there with us and, and so at this point for me, leaving that aid station, it was like think I hadn't done enough mental math to realize, How much? Behind Pace. I was in fact, looking at this. Now I'm actually 30 minutes behind Pace compared to the year previous which is like it's actually 2022 minutes. It's pretty hard to say that because it's like, gosh, really, like a year of training, a year of work, a year of dialing in nutrition year of all this stuff. Even at this point behind my Pace from the year previous. The good news was, I knew I could run still on the flat ground. And I knew I could run downhills at least a little bit and so I'm like there's still that hope for me. And I'm anyway so I'm leaving though and I'm just thinking like okay I can still finish in a good time. What if I could do this in this section in two and a half hours or something like that? And it's a net, net downhill and so Anyway, so, start the section and we start going and there's a couple really steep climbs, they're not super long, especially compared what we've done in the day, but like, there's just so Steep and so, I'm like, crap. I have to get up those without cramping, you know? If I cramp, I go to a complete standstill, right? And so it's like I'm sitting here, like, calculating all this stuff and as you get through the first one, and a couple of them, I start to start to do more math, and I'm like, Eric We're gonna have to bust our butts to even beat last year's time at all. And I'm like, and we keep going, and I'm like, like I'm for real dude. Like, when we break out of this, This last ridiculous climb. We're gonna have to push, and then we've got another climb, and I've got some running and then the last Two, three, four hundred yards of this race is straight. And it's like it's just the dumbest thing, right? I'm like you could be, they could have easily wrapped this race around the ski resort and down the ski resort. Oh yeah. And you could have run down the hill Like A Champion and and you know people cheering all that. No instead and this is just what the whole race is about. They make you climb up the super Steep Hill up a ski, run to the Finish Line. Looking like you're about to die again, right? So the whole time in my head, I'm like, if I cramp even on that, last 400 yards I'm gonna miss beating last year's time. So we break out over the edge. I know I've got five miles left and not a lot of time to do it and so I start just pushing. I just start running as much as I can and I say running it. I was it was it was the most Picture. Perfect Ultra, Runner Shuffle. You've ever seen man. It was like the most efficient like Shuffle you've ever seen but I was shuffling down the trail, you know, making like, you know, and this is what I mean by this is like I'm doing like 14 to 15 minute miles. So like go out there and try to run a 14 to 15 minute mile. You're pretty much not running but you can't walk 14 minute mile either so you're just like in the super weird Zone and so we're cruising just as fast. I'm passing these guys that I've liked with the past me on some of the climbs, just right there. I passed Aaron.

[01:21:22] Tyler: Um, was it been that walked out with you know? No. This is Aaron Cox. Name is Aaron Cox know, I'm in the one that you convinced to. Oh yeah, yeah it is okay.

[01:21:36] Tayson: Ben. Ben was, that's right. He just moved out to Tennessee and I says a pretty cool accounting job. He looked at our financial controller job and just couldn't quite make it work. But anyways, so we make it. I make it out down those sections. We get to the one climb and I'm climbing up and Doing okay, like I'm not cramping and and pushing we get to the top of that. I start running again. And anyways, it's just like Go to 200 yards looking at my watch go to like I just can't stop looking at my watch and being like this is getting so tight. and, anyways, I mean, we get down there get to the last climb and it's like I'm down to the last. Few minutes to beat my time from last year. And Like get it started up it and and realized like, hey, I've literally got 400 yards left and I've got 10 minutes on the clock, like we did it, you know? So Got up there beat last year's time by four or five minutes. Got through. And I, you know, they the good of it was I was in a better position. I wasn't slurring speech, I still had feeling in my hands. My face wasn't twitching, the bad of it is like I went to sit down in the chair and my ab cramp for 10 minutes you know. What I mean like but it's like that was just the day, right? Like nothing new there. Sat down. And, and yeah, I had made it. I mean, and I guess for me, when I look at, look at, okay, well, It is, it's tough, right? I trained for a full year to come back and have Vengeance on this race and to do better, and to improve and it's really tough. When you're like, when you basically be like four minutes, like I didn't train for 12 months, to shave four minutes off of a 17 hour trail run. so, this is how I break it down, personally, You think I'm pansy and I'm patting my stats whatever compared to last year. The race was significantly harder and here's why number one like we already mentioned, I think on average it was at least 10 degrees hotter if not more throughout the entire day. Just like a like a blanket average and that cost me, right? Because by the time I finished at the Finish Line, I had drinking 17 liters of water that day and I was still under hydrated. In fact, I'll get to some more stats on that a minute but like not. Yeah. Two, there was an extra mile plus of distance on the day. And that's where I wish that I had not worn. I wish I had worn almost both watches because COROS supposedly tracks less mileage than the garments by up to 5%. Acclaim, I think it's probably more like one or two percent at times, but I do think that the race was, it was maybe even more than a mile longer with the different climb and the eighth station Moval, like they said, it was 1.2 miles longer, but I wonder if it was even more. And then three the climb out of minors Park. I know I wouldn't have at least wouldn't have lost time. If we were going on the same road I may have even improved time and here's why I only cramped when I was trying to cross over branches and I was trying to climb over crap and I just went over. Like, like, if my perceived effort was like a six, it's like, if I hit a seven even for half a second, my body cramped, but if I could control it and keep it right at a six, I would could avoid it and just kind of keep the steady consistent Pace going. And, so, last year going up the road one. It's a much more engineered Road. There's the greatest way less, and I'm not stepping over Boulder. Stepping over rocks. Trip on stuff. Not climbing over all these down trees, and I didn't have 500 feet of climbing. And so even that 500 feet of climbing, I felt like that 500 feet of climbing is 20 minutes right there. So to me, like just comparing last year to this year, I do feel like I improved an hour on my time. Was an hour, my goals to improve know. My goal was really to improve two hours of my time. So it's a, it's a condolence, I guess in some ways. But another ways, you know, the bigger issue for me was the cramping to, to cramp that much all day long. That early in the race is still a huge issue for me and I'm sitting here, scratching my head about it, I still don't know because not only did I drink 17 liters of water and he 5,000 calories in the day, which I think is Very adequate for race like this. But when I got on the scale I didn't even get on the scale Sunday recent Saturday night didn't get on the scale Sunday. So I'm eating and drinking Sunday as much as I can. Didn't have a big appetite but still was eating and drinking. I got on the scale on Monday morning and I was still 10 pounds under my starting weight. So when you extrapolate that, I would guess that I was at least 12 pounds underweight after the race. If not more I must say 80% of that is water weight. That means that I really should have consumed like 22 to 23 liters of water that day. And I just don't know if that's realistic. I just don't know how I could have really drink in any more water or any more fluid. So I'm like, sitting here scratching my head, I will get more to where the future is, for me, maybe in a second, but yeah, finishing that day. Way cool. Like

[Editor’s note: This retrospective estimate is not a hydration prescription; excessive intake can also be dangerous.]

[01:27:16] Tayson: just wave the felt better to finish and better spirits. I felt good that I at least tired Eric out a little bit by the end like he was having to push him. He still did 5,000 plus feet of climbing with me 16 miles and and he was feeling it a bit but It was just one of those got to see family members, you know, and just and and whatnot. But yeah, I didn't, you know, started to get a little shivery, like, you know, jacket you put a jacket on and stuff you can kind of get that. But other than that, you know, got to the finish line and then we'll talk about the rest of the nights after Darren crosses the Finish Line. That's kind of the next morning, but

[01:27:51] Tyler: it's all right. It was the next morning. So

[01:27:57] Tayson: section you oh so reminding you just puked blood youth station. You know, what time miles left? Do you know what time you were leaving? I

[01:28:05] Darren: all I know is that I had estimated because after I got to a place where I could call is on the top of a hill or a mountain, I told Danny that I would be getting there between 3 and 4. Right, three and four is my estimate. Quite a bit of climbing in here. I mean 1700 feet of climbing, 2200 feet and so I wasn't feeling good. There was me and this group of people that were still all hiking together and Two of us kind of pulled away. We just kept going, we're like, hey, if we're gonna make this 24-hour time limit, we have got to go And at this point, my headlamp had been going for a few hours that morning and had been going since like nine that, that night, till that point and it was starting to get dim and I was like, oh man, I should have brought more batteries. I might have to start using my cell phone here in a minute like just to get some more light. I, you know, could have done a lot of it. Different things like turn it on dim but I was trying to get as much as I could and I was thinking, okay, I'm gonna get this done. So when it all we got passed all these little uphills and whatnot, we would run where we could. and, the guy that I was with, he was super upbeat, he's like, we're gonna make it he's like, We're definitely gonna get there as I was like, yeah, we are, you know, like we're gonna get there and we keep going cut off his 24 hours, 24 hours, 24 hours, so five, that five that morning. And I was more tired than I thought. Anytime there was an uphill, like I could maybe get like 50 yards and I have to take a break and felt like I was falling asleep on my trekking. Poles at this point, like, I put my head down. Get my

[01:29:49] Tayson: kidding like tired tired. Oh yeah. Just sleepy tired. Tired like sleepy tired. Yeah, I didn't, I need a lot. Like just in electrolyte and gummies and stuff. Yeah.

[01:30:05] Darren: and again there was like some switchbacks that we were working up and I knew that we were running out of time and So, as we'd get to the top of the Switchback, I'd start running it and he'd be running it with me. And he would let me lead because his headlamp had actually burned out. Not too much longer before this. Also, he's out of a head, so he is using his backup and it's around his neck and its kind of shining at the ground. So he's kind of like, letting me take the lead because I didn't have to Put a different headlamp on and I keep going. And for some reason. I was like a dark spot and my foot landed right in it. and it was his pothole and my body came right down over my ankle and That point. I was like, I missed something up. Like it, it just hurt a lot. I didn't have a lot of time to like finish. There's two miles left in the race of this point. And I told this guy I'm like, hey, you just keep going, I'm gonna finish, it's only two miles away. But I'm not gonna be running it, you know, like, I'll be hiking as fast as I can. And I, I had a an actual ankle brace in my backpack. Like, just want to let you slide over. I was like, I don't have time to play it on so I didn't and I just kept on. Going just said that hobbling pace. I could do this fast. Like I could and write it 24 hours, you know? Like I I get to the bomb that Hill. I walk up and I cross that finish line. And so, technically, I was a couple minutes over 24 hours. But I definitely don't feel like I didn't make my goal, you know like I was able to do that. 100K. It was longer than Tayson and I expected. Mine was supposed to have been 62.3 with my deviations. I wasn't self-induced deviations. I went well over 65. And and so yeah, as I hobbled over the Finish Line, super awesome to see, my family there. Everyone was just you know, they there's Happy I'm alive. I honestly I just felt sick, you know, I just like I didn't feel good to my stomach and like well, so that's gonna be coming up for a long. So let's get going like we start driving down the mountain, and She draw up a different car. I

[01:32:30] Tayson: tried to drive yourself off the mountain or they did because For me like I couldn't. I mean, I had a cramped up, I might it was

[01:32:39] Darren: well, I mean I wasn't really not functioning, you know, it was more, it was more mentally. I was Out of it than anything. Yeah, it's like I felt sick though. It's like, so I'm driving the truck Danny's driving the car. And I'm like, oh my gosh. I feel so sick and I just Pulled over. She's like, what are you doing? Like, I've got to go through up. Just like, hey, so it's like again, here comes to me all more, you know, blood and whatnot. And it was like, Any, I feel like a lot of ultra Runners. Probably go through that. I wasn't too worried about it things kind of settled up after a couple days but my foot is been asleep. Ever since

[Editor’s note: Passing blood, persistent numbness, or impaired cognition warrants prompt medical evaluation.]

[01:33:19] Tayson: you were passing blood for two days. Yes I was. I was so you're passing blood for two days and then this morning you decide to go get an x-ray on your ankle. So

[01:33:30] Darren: so last night I went to the InstaCare because I was like well why is my foot been asleep for multiple days like it either super bad sprain. Also wrong. I got the X-ray today. And I broke my ankle and so I had found out that I had finished that last two miles. On a broken ankle, which it fractured. Fibula

[01:33:55] Tayson: fibula. Yeah,

[01:33:57] Darren: so that's the outer ankle on the bottom. to my ankle.

[01:34:01] Tayson: So I should pull up and pull up the picture where the fibula is because I don't know exactly that the ball of your ankle like right at the bottom of that. There's a little fracture. Yeah, I want to that's as I say, I thought a fibula was like in the shin so it's on the muscle. It's on the Essentially it's the the bone that comes on the outside of your left hand

[01:34:25] Darren: area and around your ankle. Yeah, exactly. So right there in that little pony, a very bottom. Yeah. so, I finished it on that and so, Kind of cool. That's my story. So cool. Break your ankle. The thing is it doesn't really hurt. It's just numb. It feels like my foot is gonna sleep for three days. So

[01:34:47] Tayson: It sounds super sketchy, dude.

[01:34:49] Darren: And so but I mean, the things that I learned from this race though is, like, because I went into it, not thinking, Really not going in with any expectations. Like I knew I could do a marathon amount of running. I was hopeful. I could do a 70 km out. I had no clue. And kind of doubts, if I'd be able to do 100K. So my whole goal on the thing was to prove to myself that I could go that distance. yes, there were health issues, I did break an ankle, it's like, but I proved to myself, I could do it and I showed my wife and my kids that, you know, sometimes you can do the harder things in life, if you just, you know, Sit down, plan it out and actually follow through on those plans it's funny because I watched my kids now. They're like trying to run more on the treadmill and Danny's talking about wanting to do a full Marathon. Now instead of a half marathon and you know it's just Really cool to see what the little decisions we make. But seems small to us. How it can affect other people. And that's been the coolest thing for me, on on that thing on this adventure.

[Editor’s note: Finishing this race with a fracture does not make continuing through suspected injury safe. Severe pain, numbness, loss of function, or other concerning symptoms warrant stopping and medical evaluation.]

[01:35:57] Tayson: Yeah, yeah, for sure, if you, if you had a fever over the last couple days, I would have told you to go to the doctor for rhabdo, but it took me for a fever, no fever. So, yeah. So you pushed pushed the limits there quite a bit, I think. But It's always interesting to see what you can do. so yeah, I think yeah, I mean yeah, for me, like I think that there's something to doing an Ultra. For me, I what I decided is that next year? I'm not going to run the same Ultra. I don't know what I'll do yet. I need to I need to figure out because I do love setting really big goals, but running it twice the hard part with with it is. It's a considerable amount of time away from family because you're trading miles your hours per miles. And so those hours come from

[Editor’s note: Fever alone cannot rule rhabdomyolysis in or out; concerning symptoms require medical evaluation.]

[01:36:56] Tayson: somewhere, work or family or something. And so, it's tough. But what I would say though is, like, Get doing an ultra like this and and even to quit what you're saying, right? Like you said all, I didn't know if I could do 100K, dude. I would say you could do a hundred miler. Just, you know, in a different terrain like people don't I don't think you can fathom. you know, I don't know your stats, but I know my stats and my stats are That I did over like 12,500 feet of climbing and yeah according to Garmin I imported this from the COROS says 53,000 feet of climbing but that's not right. And again, I think this is one thing that I want to work out and talk with COROS about as I'm not so sure about the elevation stuff but I don't know if it's anyways but but yeah. Last year, I did over 12,000 feet this year. It was over 12,500 feet of climbing. That's just so much. Like, in fact, like Aaron texted me after the races like you should come do like the big horn one and I've heard of the big one. I'm like, oh, it's climbing through the mountains and Wyoming, right? I looked it up and in the 30-mile or you do 3800 feet of climbing. Like that's one segment of what this race is. You know? And I had another kid that that we run with is kind of a distant family relative as well that he runs it pretty much every year and he actually gets a coach to help him with this, and he said he was asking his coach, why she'd never run this race? And she's like, well, I'm being totally honest. This race scares me like, I don't want to do it. It's too difficult, it's too intense, right? Like with all the climbing and so to me, like, I think you could do 100 Miler and and and I think there's anyways, but going back to it like I think, yeah, I think running an ultra like this. It gives you a perspective that you can do something that you push a limit, that you didn't even know you had to push. Right? Like you, you hit this wall and then you hit the next wall. And then you hit a third one, fourth wall. And you know what I mean? You're just pushing past these barriers that teach you like, okay? Like I really know what, it's what it's like now and you know, I don't know what it's like to run 100K. I have no idea, you know, maybe maybe that's five years down the road for me after a lot, more learning and diagnosing and stuff. But or maybe it's never, I don't know, because I don't think I'm, I don't think I'm Bill for this kind of crap without losing more weight or you know, just altering my life significant. I have no idea but but I do, I would recommend anyone to go and sign up for one of these and push themselves. thing like this because I think you're going to learn a lot about yourself and I do think there is There's a net effect, meaning anyone that's associated or around? You all see sees this And they grow and they and it pushes their perspective, right? So just like Darren said, like, I love that my kids are able to see me. They're really young. I hope that they can remember this and and, you know, just or even just this throughout life to be able, like, you remember when I did this? Well, this is what it was, you know, you can do anything you want. Or just anyone else around, right. I think that the other I think huge takeaway is humans are just incredible. It's it's absolutely incredible that we can go. Those kind of distances do those kinds of things abuse, our bodies that much and bounce back. Yeah, I would say, for the most part me and Darren besides its broken ankle or doing fine. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sore. But like there's not gonna be lasting injuries this year and it's pretty wild to think you can. You can do that kind of stuff to your body and that we can handle it. But there's there's some real emotional, mental benefits. I think to going and pushing yourself setting,

[Editor’s note: Completing an ultramarathon does not show that bodily abuse is safe or that everyone should sign up or push through barriers. Readiness, health, course risk, and stop conditions differ; injury or medical warning signs take priority over finishing.]

[Editor’s note: This was recorded before recovery was complete and cannot establish that no lasting effects occurred.]

[01:40:53] Tayson: massive goals and achieving them, you know, your massive goal is not to be trail, running your massive goals, can be due to 100 Mile Challenge with this next year. Or if you're in it right now you might be just finishing that up. And there's huge benefits and growth and just setting big goals and pushing your limits farther than you thought. Because I had a mentor of mine years ago. You know, he said he'd like to get up and go running because he's like or work out or whatever it was because like if I get up and I do the hardest thing, I have to do that to do that day. Very first. Everything else is easier. I have to do that day and mentally that teaches me that I can do hard things, right? I can get up and get them done right away and

[Editor’s note: Goal-setting should not be read as encouragement to push through injury, medical warning signs, dangerous weather, or unsafe fatigue.]

[01:41:33] Tayson: there's there's there's just a lot of Truth to that a lot of wisdom to that, so Overall, just a really, really cool day. I do want to maybe add in here and ask a few more follow-up questions. So if you don't have anything else, Darren to add know, was there any piece of gear that really stood out to you? That were just like, man, this this was a game-changer there were and maybe stuff that you would have left behind. So yes and yes. Okay. So

[01:42:03] Darren: I actually made a mental list of this throughout my day. So the COROS watch. Was awesome for telling me when I was off Trail or staying on trail and keeping me up to date. so, for training purposes, I would highly recommend that for an ultra run or any hiking type of Adventure. It's super accurate and I Number two, are my shoes. I got some Brooks—actually wrote it down—called Caldera 6. and, I didn't have a blister at the end of the day and I just remembered all

[Editor’s note: GPS-watch accuracy varies by terrain, settings, and metric; the same conversation reports substantial COROS elevation discrepancies. Do not rely on one device as a sole safety or navigation source.]

[01:42:45] Tayson: around regular socks or Injinjis.

[01:42:47] Darren: I had some What were those prototypes we were using grips? Yeah Crips I was using those. But I just remember all day long feeling like my feet are not sore. I'm doing awesome with them and all day long, like they were really good like I will buy another pair since those were out sweet and last on my list was the Squirrel’s Nut Butter. I am just, I'm just saying, like, I've never used it before, but I know that on my 30 mile training days, I was starting to chase someone like. Okay, I'll try it before. That's wrong. No. Chasing at all. Yep, it's money. Yeah. So press that those are my three as far as things. I wouldn't have brought ah, so I brought like an extra shirt that I carried around all day, like just in case, I wanted to have something fresh and I probably wouldn't have brought that Food. I brought. I brought meat sticks and that was not the best choice for. Having in my pack all day because I didn't eat it and I could have left it in a drop bag but I didn't think of doing that. But other than that, everything else like I brought like a water filter. and, I would have been great but I didn't realize that my filter is plugged like it so that didn't work out. So I would have loved having it and not having it not having it because it didn't work. Loved having it if it was working the way it showed up. It's like. But other than that, I wouldn't have left anything else. I had the right right gear for it. Yeah.

[01:44:21] Tayson: Um, for me, highlight highlight items. I would say I do love me my Injinji socks. Those things for running specifically are just money. I just never blister on my toes or anything like that. I actually ran one time for a training run and not the Injinjis and I blistered like earlier in the season. So like I'm very adamant on those I have the HOKA Speedgoats and I think I like the fours almost more than the fives, but it's hard to say the fives are still really solid. I hadn't spent a lot of time in the five before this race. And but overall, the HOKA Speedgoats are my new favorite shoe. I definitely. Much prefer them over the Salomons that I had used in the past. Skratch, the high-carb, I wish I knew the new name of it used to be called hyper fuel or super fuel but It's now called something different. But it's space. It's the liquid galleries. I mean, those were absolute money. Just constant calories that were easy to get in compared to everything else. So those were those were huge. Favorite, probably my favorite switched out piece of gear was I got a different set of Komperdell poles. I mean, I love my Komperdell poles but I got a running set of polls that have like a full-on I don't even know, like, I have like, yeah, it's like a half glove that really grips your hand and so you don't even have to like grip the pole. Which last year I think that was a big part of why I started to lose feeling in it and I started to like you know even cramp up in my forearms and so this year I was able to just keep my hands way more relaxed. And I really like those. They're lighter thinner, they're not as great. I would say for just hiking purposes but for running their absolute money really really like those The other night, I mean, I used all the all of the Outdoor Vitals gear work, great. I used an altitude, I used our Skyline running shorts or Trail shorts. I used our Skyline fastpack or great, I think really works. Well is running best, I really does. It's a little bit, it might be a little bit bigger on the back. Like as far as like from a breathability standpoint that a vest Um, you can send it down. You can know. Yeah, it's not like like it was cinched. Yeah. I cinch mine down and then I tie it just to make sure it doesn't slowly unsynced throughout the day and from the profile. Just fine. But like, the back panel, might be a hair bigger than a vest. Yeah. Just a solid piece. So yeah, those are the big ones. Anything I would have left back. Now I really trimmed my pack down even tighter this year. I really didn't take much extra, is really didn't take much for first aid. Or I did take a Garmin inReach Mini 2. To my family could follow that and I was watching it all day and then when Eric met up with me, I gave it to him to carry the whole shave of another three and a half ounces, you know? So, but yeah, I mean, I definitely overpacked some of those. Ziplocs over carried a little bit of food, but nothing that I was like ashamed of. I did run out of water on one of the on coming up out of Miners Park. So I did fill up a half a liter there but other than that drinking just a ton of water Skratch changed the name from Super fuel to super high carb. Super high carbs or drink, it's in her descriptive. Yeah, I mean anything. Anything we missed Tyler.

[01:47:51] Tyler: Um, No, I think I just want to say I'm proud of you guys for such big efforts for putting the time in to, well, for setting a big goal and then putting the time in to, to try to accomplish something like that. It's, it's always cool when you can push yourself to a new level and, and it does have a net effect on the people around you. So I want

[01:48:17] Tayson: to say that and then I think the the last thing I would ask is just kind of like how does this apply to the rest of your time in the backcountry like for backpacking and for the other things that you're going to do? Yeah. I got some thoughts. But if you've got them, go ahead. You know, first,

[01:48:37] Darren: well, as far as like, how this applies for me, like the health benefits like getting in shape, well translate to better and like, More enjoyable hiking trips. It's not going to be miserable. When you get out there on the mountain, like, man, I'm not ready for this. It's like, so me being able to apply the training I put in for this type of Event. And then immediately go out to the outdoors. I'm not going to slow down and and watch things you know. Like you can enjoy the sights and Kind of appreciate. The one area rather than a whole mountain range at a time. So, I don't know, I just feel like the physical benefits that you get for training for something like this. We'll have an immediate, you know, correlation to a better experience on your next hiking trip.

[01:49:30] Tayson: Yeah, for me, some of my favorite aspects of it is, are that you create a new relationship with miles. So any Ultra runner in my mind, you have a different relationship with what a mile Means versus someone else. And so when you say 20 miles it doesn't seem like what it used to mean. When I was, you know, a decade ago to me or you even say 10 miles and people think oh it's a whole day's worth of hiking. And now it's like oh man we can bust that out, right? And so you it for changes, your perspective on what's possible to do and places to get to. The other thing I would say is you push the limits physically constantly with ultra running and Ultra just training for Ultra runs. So you learn a lot. So actually in the Colorado Trail, we pushed way hard on day one, we did 21 plus miles, 6,000 feet of climbing, with the fullest heaviest packs. We had of the whole trip camera gear, Etc. By the time I got to the top, I started cramping up, had a terrible night, you can go listen to that podcast, but I knew what to do now, because I've been there, I'd faced that. And so I, I hydrated through the night, I woke up in the night. I ate food, I drank more, I got this morning, I pounded water, I did. I did these things that I had learned through ultra running so that the rest of the trip didn't derail. And so by noon, the next day, I was feeling better and I was fine, the rest of the trip. So to me it's like you learned things about your body that

[Editor’s note: This personal recovery account is not a fluid, electrolyte, or nutrition protocol. Excessive fluid intake can be dangerous, and significant symptoms require appropriate medical care.]

[01:50:52] Tayson: allow you to To know how to fuel know how to how to handle things, how to bounce back from things. And I think that comes in kind of the maybe the little bit more prolonged ultra running or the more you train or the morals you do I'm sure you just gain more wisdom and so that's kind of my alert to sticking with this is to Just continue to learn like, why the heck am I cramping up this early? And you know, like if I can figure those things out, then I know and I can apply that knowledge and turn it, you know, from knowledge into wisdom hopefully for me in the back country. So to me it's it's just an awesome tool to teach you that what trails, maybe possible now and help you. When you are dialing back, the pace for backpacking, help you be able to just keep your body in mind in a really good spot out there so that you can enjoy. Backpacking. You're doing better versus like hitting walls and stuff like I don't, I don't really hit Cal Wells anymore. Backpacking. I don't really hit hydration issues backpacking anymore because of how much I've learned from ultra running and training for Ultras. Cool. So I think the last, the last thing that I have is we've we've had this discussion recently about, Acclimating for high elevation adventures and you were able to spend a couple of nights the previous weekend up on the Tushar Mountains and then went straight from there to Silverton Colorado. We spent the night at high elevation. We did the whole 100 miles on the Colorado Trail spent every night above 10,000 feet, I think, So then you came back and you had a week at 5,000 feet, which is where we live. And he went right back up there for the race. So do you feel like there's any advantage to spending that extra week up, high prior, or do you think it still took time to acclimate? I would say, overall, I don't think it actually was a big advantage. And I I think that actually doing the 100 miles that close to the race may have just been too soon in hindsight, right? Like that wasn't really how I wanted to plan it, it's just the way that worked out with everyone's schedules. My thought with this is twofold. It didn't I don't think it hurt me for acclamation, right? Didn't hurt me at all, but for acclimation specifically, but I think two nights at elevation was plenty to acclimate. I think the more important part for me going to Elevation just still dials back to staying hydrated and lowering the stress on the body prior to going. I think when you're in the ultra, you can be just as susceptible to it if you get dehydrated specifically. And so the year previous I had to drive off the mountain in the middle night because I had elevation sickness but to me that was a hydration and exertion level issue. No amount of sleeping at altitude would have resolved that and this time, Eric drove off the mountain in the middle of the night because he woke up with the racing heart, couldn't fall back asleep, headache, Etc, this year for me, I didn't however I could feel it building the next day and so by halfway through the next day I'm like I do feel like we just need to get off the mountain. I'm not gonna get my appetite back

[Editor’s note: This retrospective interpretation is not a diagnosis or acclimatization protocol; altitude illness can become serious.]

[01:54:06] Tayson: until we get to lower elevation, that kind of thing. So, To me, like two nights at elevation would have adequately. Acclimated me. And I think, the more important part is getting great sleep, you know, not coming to Elevation when you're like, like don't do like a massive workout and then go to Elevation, like, that's gonna put you at risk, it's a great sleep low stress on the body and then just hydrating like crazy. So you think you probably won't fully recovered from our 100 Miler with only seven days in between? I don't think I was 100% recovered. I think it would have been way better for me to have done that. Two weeks out how to week of slow exercise, to still move the body, stretch things out, and taper into it, and then do like a 0 week, but it was a 0 week,

[Editor’s note: Two nights at elevation, aggressive hydration, and the described taper are personal retrospective opinions, not general acclimatization or recovery guidance. Needs vary, and altitude illness can worsen despite hydration.]

[01:54:53] Tayson: but I, but I still probably needed to do a little bit of movement to push things out of my muscles and stuff from the week. Prior, that's just my my thought on it. I don't think it was a huge impact on the race either way but In perfect world. I wish that it would have been a little farther out. Yeah. Well we couldn't stop Darren from running the week prior no matter what we did. So that's true.

[01:55:17] Darren: Well, I only did a couple months, it wasn't that bad? Yeah I don't really have anything to add to the I think Tayson summed that up pretty dang. Well, it's like for me I had a little bit of altitude. Sickness. Going up to Delano but I think they just work through that and so that was it for me. So there's nothing I could have done to acclimate more than stay up there longer. Cool.

[Editor’s note: Do not simply work through suspected altitude illness. Stop ascending, monitor symptoms, and descend or seek medical help when symptoms persist, worsen, or become severe.]

[01:55:43] Tayson: Yeah, I think for me I I just wonder if I just as much as I love high elevation and it's like my happy place. I don't think I do. Great it out, the tude. I think I it's very consistent that I lose my appetite. Like very consistent and and I don't know how to combat that because it's not something that It's something that slowly builds in. It's not like I did this and then this happened. It's something that just slowly builds in the longer I'm up there. You know, by the end of the Colorado Trail, I was slowly losing appetite each day and kind of the same in this race and the day after so Cool. Okay. Well, let's go and wrap this up. It's been a long one. Appreciate you guys sticking with us a couple call outs real quick. If you're interested in Skratch Labs, that is under the member exclusive. So if you sign up for a little membership 10 bucks a month that goes instantly into a store credit account with us. So you don't lose the money. You just transfer it in there and then you can spend it on whatever you want. Whether that's Skratch Labs or any other retail items that we sell water filters, TOAKS products, or you can spend it on new launches or you can spend on new launches. Like the skyline fastpack coming out that we ran this race with or the CS40 which has been getting crazy. Good reviews, very excited to launch that piece. I think the feedback on it's going to be amazing and has been amazing internally with everyone. That's put their hands on it so far. So go join the Live Ultralight Membership. It's a phenomenal way to buy food at the cheapest streets possible. It's the best way to save money on new launches because you get 10% off of any Outdoor Vitals product. Anytime of year, you get upgraded shipping and a whole lot more. So go check that out again. It's just like a savings account. You're not actually spending money. That goes nowhere that money just goes into your savings account to spend later on our website. So other than that, make sure you guys are subscribed. We really would appreciate it. If you shared this podcast around, and it gives us the opportunity to grow and further our mission of helping more people get outdoors, and connect disconnect more with this crazy world, and reconnect with themselves, Ultras are good, way to do that, as well as backpacking in general. Yeah, really, really appreciate it.

[Editor’s note: These membership prices, discounts, shipping terms, and product-launch details were described in August 2023 and may no longer apply. Check current Outdoor Vitals pages for present terms and availability.]

[01:57:50] Tayson: Any last words from anyone Darren. So you're a freaking animal. I can't believe you did the 100K. He did it. I just wrap my I could not wrap my head like that last segment I was just thinking about you, like, is it's getting dark? And I was thinking, where is Darren? How much do you have more to do? Like, I can't even fathom it. So

[01:58:08] Darren: glad it's done. You're one and done. I'm sticking to it

[01:58:11] Tayson: says, in three months. Hopefully this inspires you guys. Thanks for tuning in. We'll catch on the next one.