[00:00:00] Tayson: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Live Ultralight Podcast powered by Outdoor Vitals. Today in this episode, we had special guest Kristian Morgan on to tell his story of setting the new fastest known time going southbound. Kristian obviously has a wealth of knowledge. He has a very interesting and dynamic back story into getting into this FKT attempt and it was a lot, a lot of fun to roll this interview. But a few things about Kristian, he's a runner who after three failed attempts to set the record just last month, set the fastest known time record for the southbound route of the Appalachian Trail at 45 days, four hours and 27 minutes, which also places in second on the Appalachian Trail for the overall.
[Editor’s note: The record standings in this November 2023 introduction are historical and are not presented as current standings.]
[00:00:47] Tayson: In addition, Kristian held the record in 2020, the 630-mile South West Coast Path in the UK, which we found out in the podcast that he did that as kind of a consolidation for not being able to travel during that time to come attempt yet again an attempt at the Appalachian Trail fastest known time. And as an ultra runner and coach, Kristian trains and works remotely all over the world and we're excited to talk about him in the show. Kristian really is a very authentic guy. We really appreciate him coming on. He had some personal things going on this week that he still made time for the show and really just wanted to say thank you. But I think you guys will get a lot of value out of this. It's always interesting to peel back the curtains a little bit and learn more about what actually happens out there on the trail, what the mindset is and what brought him up to the trail to begin with. I always find that there's amazing takeaways from interviews and talks like this. So I'm sure there will be things whether you're a runner or whether you're a hiker that you can take and apply and learn from to make you either better at those or to honestly just encourage you to get out there and explore more, disconnect from this crazy world that we live in and reconnect with yourself. So that's the goal. So we'll go ahead and roll this interview with Kristian Morgan. Well, Kristian, I'm super excited to have you on the show and I'm super grateful that you made time this week to come onto the show. I know it's been a tougher week on you and you wanted to actually dedicate this show to your father. So I'm going to go ahead and give you a second to do that before we jump right in.
[00:02:23] Kristian: Thanks, Tayson. So yeah, my father, he just passed away yesterday and he was much loved by all of us and one of the things that he said to me, it was a three -year battle against cancer and one of the things he said to me was, Kristian, you're living the life that I wanted to live. So keep on pushing limits and keep on doing what you're doing. So my father's a big inspiration for me to not necessarily look at how he lives and what he does, but rather what I do is what he wanted to do. So yeah, shout out to Roger Morgan, 73 years old and 20 days yesterday.
[00:03:05] Tayson: Yeah. I think that's a great place to even start this conversation is maybe just talking about your background and did your parents have an effect on you getting into the outdoors and into running or just how did you grow up in general?
[00:03:22] Kristian: I guess I grew up in Australia, even though I have a British passport. My father has a sister who lives over in Australia and they raised their family there. And so we went over there from a young age, I think I was about four or five. And so, yeah, I just it was nice to be involved in going to the beach and swimming in the ocean, going to barbecues, a lot of outside living in comparison to, say, the United Kingdom. There's a big outside culture. So, yeah, my parents are responsible for that. And then I guess I kind of got into running through boxing in the late 90s.
[00:04:05] Tayson: Yeah. So you were training for boxing and a part of that was training cardio?
[00:04:11] Kristian: Yeah, of course. Yeah, we have to run. And and it was the running. Which eventually led to me actually seeing an advertisement in the in the paper, the local paper about a marathon. And I thought, hey, that sounds fun. I reckon I could do that. So I signed up, ran the marathon and it changed my life. I mean, I found out a lot about myself in the ring and my personal invitations, because obviously a lot of things are mental. And if you're scared and you're in the ring, you're not relaxed. You know, you're going to choke, I guess, or whatever, or be choked, you know, if it was. But no, I think with the running, it just it was me alone with my mind and my body. And I really appreciated that. So yeah, that. Game took priority of the boxing. I let the boxing go and started running a few marathons each year, mostly Road marathons, and that started in 2000. So quite some time ago
[00:05:12] Tayson: So, about about how old were you at that point?
[00:05:15] Kristian: Um, as say, 23 years old.
[00:05:17] Tayson: Yeah, yeah, exactly how yeah. So you came into running at 23, didn't grow up running, you didn't like run track or anything like that.
[00:05:29] Kristian: No. I mean my first marathon was really slow. It it was let's get this done. I didn't understand what a good time was or a bad time. Was me really more about. I didn't really have a training program of vintage boxing. I think I'm pretty fit. Think I can do this and I believe it was around four hours, 45 minutes. But what I felt really proud about was is that I never walked, you know, I never it was slow running, but I never walked and so for me that was a real win and Yeah, no track background for me.
[00:06:02] Tayson: Yeah. Now I can I can relate to that as a kid growing up. We don't only have to unlike one mile in our gym class and if I could like run the whole mile without stopping, I counted that as a win. I was I was a bigger kid, right? Like I I played football and through and stuff like that and in track, I was never a runner, so I can definitely relate to that. But so you get into running. You start running marathons and eventually transition into trail running and I believe I heard somewhere that you have to finished 100 Ultra is at this point.
[00:06:34] Kristian: Yeah. Actually. It's a combination of like Ultras and marathons and it's about 150, or something like that. Yeah, since I had to stop counting after a hundred and then Yeah, it's around. 100 50 something.
[00:06:49] Tayson: Yeah. So are you just, I mean, how many is that a year? Typically like, what is your typical year look like in terms of maybe when you're not doing the fkt attempts? That take 45 plus days, right? What's your typical year look like as far as your race schedule?
[00:07:06] Kristian: I guess it was a bit like cryptocurrency. It's like this and then just had a shop and then I found I reached my goal of hitting the the 100-mile and club and then there's a kind of a drop off. So up to 2015 I think I'd run about 15 miles ones so not that many each year progressively got more and more and became trailer running my first ultramarathon in 2009 so that was a big step for me to go further in distance not just with but distance, and So after that, I saw this old guy, these old guys with 100 Marathon t-shirt on because I sometimes do the same Marathon more than once. And I, I said to myself, hey, Kristian. I'm one day. I'm gonna join that club, but I don't want to be like in my 60s or 70s. I want to do it over the next two years. So from 2015 and 16, I ran about 50 marathons Ultras and 100 Miler combined. And so it was a combination of 100 miles, ultra marathon, I can say there's two different things under my eyes, Ultra, marathons and marathons and I I hit it was pretty sweet in 2016. I ran my first marathon which was the Wolverhampton Marathon. So it was my first one. I won it that day. I got a personal best and it was my 100th Marathon. So and my dad was saying, couldn't really be perfect. More perfect.
[00:08:38] Tayson: Yeah, no that's that's absolutely incredible. I mean you're essentially running you know two plus marathon's a month at that point about every two weeks. She'd be back in there running again. It's incredible. I mean I had a curiosity what do you feel like you you took away from that or what did you learn about your yourself or your body through? You know those couple of years of really hitting so many marathons back to back.
[00:09:04] Kristian: Well, I definitely didn't feel the need to have a high volume in the, in the, in the week for my training because, you know, sometimes I do, you know wasn't evenly spaced out. I'd often run a marathon on Saturday and an ultra on Sunday and, you know, I was top 10 English, a lot of this stuff and so the more I ran that, I feel the better more experienced and faster. I got kind of, Felt that. You know, I didn't need like I said to keep that volume. I remember me. And my friend went to this something called the cheddar. Gorge, like cheddar cheese is originally from a place in England called cheddar Gorge, and they have this Marathon that me and my friend, David Ross, he's a an amazing Runner. Went there and he said, oh, I've got to go and do eight mile run because I want to make my trip much. I want to get 100 Mi this week. Ah yeah, I'm happy with just a marathon tomorrow. You go ahead and do that but I won the marathon that day you know as I was winning quite a lot of these as well as top tening and partying and Podium. So I guess I didn't feel it. I think that what I learned was the racing became the training. Yeah, for the next one.
[00:10:21] Tayson: So I had an experience recently where I was out pacing someone on the Moab 240 and I ended up going 60 miles with them. and I felt better than I thought I should have because I had basically taken two months off of training completely and I got I kind of got thinking about it or was like, man wonder if even like a seven or a 10-day taper that most people do before big events, like that was enough for me. So I'm kind of curious what your thoughts are on that. If you're really just going race to race with minimal training, do you have any thoughts on just like the taper itself? Or if you can have a much longer taper per se and have that still, you know, put you on the top spot on a podium.
[00:11:11] Kristian: Is an interesting question. I did living Ethiopia. And 14 with the intention to. I haven't released it yet. It's part of my notes. I, you know, complying all these notes throughout my life, one day to write a book. And one time I spent six months in Ethiopia, with the runners to pretty much, Have an insight into what they did to be, you know, running the times that they ran. And I think it's it's pretty it depends. How deep you competition is. I mean if you're in a like a trail run and you run a trail run on Saturday, now you're running one on Sunday and you're winning in 240. Something like I was maybe, yeah, but if you're like top level competition, you've got Paris Marathon or Berlin. Then. Yeah, I think there's a spectrum and I think the guys who want to get the fastest time and the most out of themselves, I think a better hitting a block, which obviously compounds over the years and their experience, and, and having the appropriate taper and the recovery and the motivation to train again. So I think the Ethiopians, you know, until we stop beating the East Africans. Then we'll be learning from those guys, but as for me, a trail Runner, I'm just like a humble, like I say Trail Runner. I'm nowhere and I think like these guys, and But it's fun. I mean the main thing for me it was it was fun, I had it. I also you asked the question, what did I learn? I had a goal and it was a two-year goal and it was nice to have such a long-term goal. And when I achieved that, I felt such a sense of persistence and that, Made me realize that I could. set myself a goal which was maybe two years in the future and and stay with it. And it would Be achieved. So listen and and having fun. And but yeah I mean if you want to run fast, marathons date, run on Saturday and Sunday, you know.
[00:13:11] Tayson: Yeah, no I think I think there's a lot of power in setting. Those big long-term goals, right? They they're just so fulfilling when you do achieve them and and they, they can, they have the power to like greatly adapt. Your whole, your whole body, right? Your whole, you'll hear Your physiology per se, you know like running year over year has been something that I've recently been able to experience I'd say because I didn't start running until 2020. And it's been very interesting to just watch year over year, the, the changes and what's possible what's not possible for me. And, and how I would say in a lot of ways, things are just easier in general. Now, I can train less and do just as much, if not more, but I'm also training kind of year-round at some level. So it's it is it, there's, there's there's a lot of power, I think, in being able to set bigger, you know, longer term goals, and then obviously achieve them as that much more gratifying, right?
[00:14:11] Kristian: Yeah. Okay, this year, I want to run a marathon now. I'm gonna run that but to The full site to say actually in two years I want to join the hundred miles on Club say, and you write the Buddy adopts. I was in Ethiopia, we're doing hill. Sprints. I was the last one off every time, but I made it up before the guys came back down to repeat. Number two, I think we did 40 repeats with a five minute break after 20, and it was, it was humbling. It was tough. I was felt sick, but I stuck with it. And one of the runners came over to me after his congratulated, me and said, if you stick with this and if you'll adapt, you know, so yeah, we do. We adopt
[00:14:50] Tayson: Yeah, I promise we're gonna get to the fkt attempt but I I was hoping you'd bring up the Ethiopia thing because I found that so interesting when I was doing a little bit of research here. um, How did you, how did you even get in with these guys to be able to go over there and spend time and run? Was that was that difficult? And and you said you were there for six months. So yeah, I guess, I guess I'd love to just hear any insights on that whole experience.
[00:15:16] Kristian: It was easy. I think it just takes an outgoing friendly person. I was in Sicily. I'd run the Palermo Marathon. I don't know, four or five times, and I noticed these just amazing looking East. African Runners looking so slender and elegant, joking around with each other in groups of six. at 14 minute mile Pace to just warm up and That's such a calmness. I was intrigued. In other words, I was intrigued by They obviously looks so different from us, not physically, but there's something up here which is really different us Europeans running around, you know, sprinting at the start and stuff. And So the next year I came up with the idea. I'm actually gonna go over to one of these guys, I'm gonna introduce myself and I'm gonna make friends and I'm gonna tell him. I want to write a book called Running With It If You pins and I'm gonna see what happened. Swap emails, So the guy over two was called, Sega Bocelli, he's not the begelly, another begelly. So Sega Bocelli, he now lives in Canada. He was a 212, man. He ran to 11 or 212 something that day. Which super fast, but he won the marathon. I said, hey, good luck. I saw him at the end. I was really cheeky as we're going past, where the all the East African marathon runners are having their massage. I just walked in there. I'm going in, you know. I'm not allowed. But I'm, you know, rules are made to be broken and went in there congratulated say, again, it was, it looked good on me that he was, because I spoke to before I told him. What I just told you, when I come to Ethiopia, write a book. Here's my email. So he sent me an email and ended up going over. And doing what I dreamed to do. I went there three times all together and the longest I stayed was six months. So, Yeah.
[00:17:06] Tayson: So you spent more than six months there, so so when you're there you're just how much like are you training every day? Is it harder training than you expected? Or was it just more? Strategic Training per se.
[00:17:16] Kristian: Well, I could never keep the pace with them. I mean, I like I said, I'm a 240 something Marathon. I'm not a two. I mean, So when you start running under 250 or 214 there's some interest but anyone to 20 or something. It's, I mean, everyone runs 220, these are the slow guys. So when they asked me what my Pace was and or what I want the fastest marathon time was they they just looked really confused as to how I could call myself a runner, you know, and I understood that I had empathy for their confusion. So Kind of funny but we all made friends and yes,
[00:17:54] Tayson: it's just so fast. Like that is so fast to me, that's running 240. You would be That would require so much change and I don't even know if it'd be possible for me, genetically. I don't know, like I just can't even imagine running 240, let alone, you know, 220 and under It's just insanity, but I guess I haven't been around marathoners to over here them, talk like that to, because to me it's sub 3 hours, is incredible. Just incredible. So incredible. And then next level for the Two. Oh, whatever guys. So you couldn't keep Pace with them per se, but did you take some of the training that they did and bring that home and apply it to the rest of your career?
[00:18:42] Kristian: There's more questions. So we ran twice a day. Every day we went just before sunrise in the morning we had. No we just drink maybe three or four cups of water? No coffee. No. nothing sometimes we'd have a white piece of bread and half a banana reach or something you Know not very appetizing and then we'd go running for whatever it was that day. That had different runs obviously that had their long run. That had the hill intervals that had their tracks sessions. There was usually about three speed sessions a week and then one long run. So four key session a week didn't do. Doubles often would run Beyond Marathon distance. So it would run 50k on the long run and typically, ran Marathon distance every week, you know? But a little bit slower than their Pace, maybe 10K in that. Maybe that have a 10K at summer camp pace. So, and then, Oh yeah, the evening runs. So yeah, every day in the evening it's a Christian Orthodox country, very religious. I think 94% is Christian Orthodox. 96 Um and so a lot of the runners had Sundays off. Some of the more focused and non. Apologetic. One is just around Sundays as well and did 14 runs each week but most of them ran 12 runs a week and then the evening run was called a social run. And I mean you know, we're talking like 12 minute miles just That slow shuffling to just, I guess adapt to what you've done that morning.
[Editor’s note: This is Kristian’s historical observation of an elite training environment, not a recommended training, hydration, or recovery protocol.]
[00:20:16] Tayson: Yeah, that's kind of like, that. 80/20 principle writer like running below aerobic threshold and trying to log like 80% of your miles there. So, that's interesting, obviously they're logging, I'm sure a lot more if these faster rates and whatnot, but they're still getting in that that lower aerobic exercise as well.
[00:20:36] Kristian: Yeah, and they have a hunger. So when they're all the runners, when I came back from here, I found it. Culturally shocking to come back to London and see. People running down the street who weren't like, I don't know five foot. Eight. They're like with the palace to wait, buddy or ratio, you know, super skinny, like I just, you know, to see a general person running down the street. Who's never gonna run on under four hours, it just felt really culturally weird because the only people who run in Ethiopia, professional athletes. You don't run. So they have this hunger. And I remember one time this woman over taking me on a long run, we did. I think I did 50. K that day. We like no water, no Marathon, no water. She ran past me and I could just hear her breathing. She was on the threshold of what was I considered humanly possible and I just Think you have to be hungry to. yourself through that Weekly monthly and yearly and hunger to change your life in your Communities life, your family's life, the friends, the people in the village. So it goes a lot deeper than just wanting to have a personal goal that hunger is the yeah.
[00:21:47] Tayson: But the run to do 14 runs a week, obviously is going to take a toll on his body, with how you recover, right? But I I think it'd be better time spent to hear how you recovered on your fkt. So you're going to take all of this and you're going to be applying it into your ultra's and your your fkt attempts, right? So you you mentioned before we hit record here on a five year journey. And hopefully I guess we're now at the book end of this because you've you've set and achieved the fastest known time on the southbound Appalachian Trail. Supported which is absolutely absolutely incredible completed it. And I think 45 days and four hours I actually was looking at this, you beat the previous time at 18 hours which seems like a lot, you know, 18 hours. But in the grand scheme of things over 45 days, you beat him by about one and a half percent. Like you're one and a half percent faster over the course of 45 days. Assist Wild to think that the length of this Trail, right? It basically 2,200 miles, it's absolutely incredible. And then I I looked at this as well because I've always found it fascinating right? I'm from You know, the West out here in the United States where, you know, we have, you know, quote unquote, real mountains, you know, we have, we have high elevation and we have this. So always shocked me a few years back. When I, when I learned that the Appalachian Trail had more elevation gain and descend than, you know, the PCT or the CDT and assess that. And I don't know if this is 100% accurate, but it's so there's 40 465, thousand feet of vertical gain in this, which is about 212 feet per mile. That's Right? When you look at like, I run a marathon here. It's at altitude. It's it's crappy Trails but it's it's To me, it's so Steep and it's like 280 feet per mile and then like hard rock. The Hard Rock, 100, right. That's like 330 feet of elevation gain in descent per mile. So 212 for 2200 miles is insanity. There's so much Constant climbing, and I think there's in some ways like I think there's I guess I haven't done the whole Appalachian Trail, I've only done a little sections but the trail is pretty good and it was pretty like graded per se. It's just constant like climbing. And you're not out altitude so you can usually keep your breath. But that doesn't take away from 465,000, vertical feet of climbing. Just absolute absolutely crazy. So I guess take me back to five years ago, or whenever this did start for you of why in the world did? You want to attempt this Trail? You've been running marathons? And now you're gonna jump to a 2200 Mile, Long Trail. So, talk me through the why? Where that became you know, you're Obsession your dream. And and yeah. Why did you want to go do this question?
[00:24:47] Kristian: When I was wrapping up that gold in 2016 of 100 marathons, one of the ones I did was a multi-stage called Marathon des Sables. And it's in this hard desert. It's kind of like a marathon on the day then a double Marathon day and Yeah, I think you do five miles or something like that.
[00:25:08] Tayson: Is that the one where you like? They go ahead. They set up like a tent and you like run into the camp and you sleep in the tent and then you kind of get up and do the next thing.
[00:25:15] Kristian: Yeah. Circuit they move. The the whole Camp to the end of the day two and on day two they move the entire County at the end of day 3 on and three and so on. So that and I met Karl Sabbe during that ultra marathon multi-stage and he told me about the PCT he was going to do in 16. So he went and did it and set a new record, broke, string, beans, record. And when I saw his article on Strava, I just sent him a email or something or a message saying, congratulations, Karl, it's really cool. You did what you said you were gonna do. He didn't tell me he was going to go for the record. He said he was just gonna do the trial. I think, probably not putting pressure on himself and he said, yeah, thanks and then he got in contact and he said, hey, would you like to be I think it was 2017. Would you like to be part of my crew for me, going against Scott Jurek, Northbound, supported Appalachian, Trail record, and the, I think at the time, Stringbean had the record self-supported, but So that was the overall fastest. So meeting Karl in the desert going in 2018 spending I spent 15 days with him and I ran To begin with a few 18, I think 20 miles days but eventually it just went to about 35 miles a day running with him. and, I went and did UTMB about a couple of weeks after that left, left him in on the Appalachian Trail and I came away with this taste of what it was like to go for a fastest known time. And I had an intimate Insight because I was on the trail More than anyone else who ran with him. I was with Karl more than any of his crew, and I just got to really see it from the inside, and I saw the crewing and I saw the hikers through hikers. So that inspired me. And I contacted him at the end of 18, after he got the record and said, RL I really want to go for this myself so I'm just letting you know, and then and then I had a couple of fail attempts. In 19, I had a I like to call them Stepping Stones towards success 19. I got as far as Hot Springs. 2020, I couldn't come to America. So I broke Damian Hall’s record in the Britain for the Britain's longest National Trail. I thought that would be a good. Training Grant 630 miles and I did it in 10 days and six hours or 10 days and 12 hours or something. So, like 61 miles a day. Uh, and then 21, I had a second fail attempt which ended the same place.
[00:27:54] Tayson: At Hot Springs and so I don't I don't want you to skirt over those how far into the trail is that and what was breaking down.
[00:28:01] Kristian: My mind I guess I just wasn't ready for it. So 2019 actually, let's be fair. My crew fell apart in 2019. I had my young cousin out there. She had no experience. No driving license and it just didn't work. She didn't gel with Gun Section, who's my mom as well, who was out there for every single attempt, and it just didn't work. It was, there's a lot of attention in the crew, and I called it. And I said okay Megan my cousin we're going to fly you home tomorrow I know you don't want to be here so it was crew problems in 19. Like I said 20 I said the record and Britain's longest National Trail And then 21 actually got myself a travel. a travel exemption or an exemption to travel from the Olympic USA Olympic Committee and I came to America and I got to yes. So in 1900 about 300 miles or something, 50 miles a day roughly, I don't know, 290 miles hot springs and then same in 21. I did about the same distance, go to about the same place. It wasn't my crew. That let me down in 21 and a great crew Iceman and Gun Section, two vehicles, two drivers, My my niece was their mere as well, but I had like a bit of tendinopathy tendonitis on my inside left groin. And instead of going through it, I just let it stop me so you can call it physical. But believe me when you're doing such a long trail, you have to go through physical problems and sometimes they just disappear.
[Editor’s note: Kristian is describing his personal outcome during a historical record attempt. Tendinopathy and other physical problems do not universally resolve by continuing; persistent or worsening pain should be evaluated individually rather than treated as a general instruction to push through.]
[00:29:35] Kristian: So, Yeah, so those two fail, the towns which I call Stepping Stones towards success gave me the hunger to get past Hot Springs.
[00:29:44] Tayson: Yeah. And that's about 300 ish miles into the trail that's roughly 50 miles a day or so. And how many total attempts have you done on this Trail?
[00:29:55] Kristian: So um like 1920 and 22 and 23. I've done four attempts.
[00:30:01] Tayson: All right, so tell me about 22.
[00:30:04] Kristian: Last year, said, the second fastest time going northbound. I was six, five point, nine percent. So then Karl Sabbe’s, which equates to about 2.9 miles a day less than he did or maybe some Do the math. Maybe it was something close to that. Yeah, I was going for the record. I got today. 31. Very close to the Finish two thirds. It's like two well over two thirds in and I just I Karl’s, I had a lead 27 miles on Karl, which is pretty good. Almost by the halfway point, I was half a day ahead of him. Karl also put me up on social media and say, Kristian’s half a day ahead and that was cool. And then eventually, I just started to lose a little bit of that lead and said, of having the foresight, that maybe Karl was going through a phase where he felt strong and I was going through a phase where I felt weak. I just Got to day 31? I was 10 miles ahead of record pace and I just got off trail. And I said, guys, I'm done, the pressure got to me Karl really got inside. I allowed Karl to get inside my head. Think he was a Better Stronger Faster athlete than me. And I couldn't do it and I went to a hotel, I left the trail got back on the trail the next day lost a full day and continued and set the second fastest time in the world but in a more of a relaxed way you know I love the fire had been put out a bit by then but that was no nerves. So I didn't work well under pressure which changed this year I guess.
[00:31:31] Tayson: Yeah. so you've had a lot of experience that now, on the trail you've probably run and I mean A lot of it right? You head out there on trail this year, what's the mindset?
[00:31:44] Kristian: Um, okay, so first of all, having family, a family member, as a crew member is difficult. So, Gun Section is my mom. And in 2019 and 21. I was getting triggered a bit like a child would do with that parent. You know, a child or whatever growing up version of a child. Whatever. You know what I mean? I think last year I just said, Okay Kristian, you know you you need to really realize that there's no one else here for you. She's doing her best and you need to take everything that she's giving you and use it. So, So, last year and this year, I just went with, okay. it's not the crew, you know, I had great weather conditions last year, so if I get bad weather conditions, I can't I can't blame it on. Anything was my, excuse was my mindset this year. There's nothing that I can do with its I'm gonna own this. If I fail I'm gonna own that failure. I'm not gonna come on on podcast and say, hey, Not a bad day out there. Well, if I did it's you know, I'd affected me and you know, so, Yeah, just just getting out there and just sucking it all up. I had three full starts. We all went and met up in Maine. All came back down because hikers were getting off Trail. Records were being smashed with the flooding, you know, record numbers, I went back up again. I think three weeks later got on trail through hiker, through hiker was killed crossing a stream. I got my leg trapped in a boulder. I trusting a stream, and it's just said, I just actually I told my crew, I didn't have hot, which wasn't true, because three weeks later, I said, you know what, guys, I do have heart, but I had the wrong weather, and we've got a window. Let's see what I can do. Let's see what we can do. So, Went back with the. You know, I had five points of gratitude one Gun Section. My mom, you know, for being out there and doing her best. Number two, Iceman for being the second crew, and the people who were coming to me, my body for, allowing me to use it in this way, five of the opportunity for the opportunity because, you know, in 2020, I couldn't even get to the trail. Like I was told I'm not allowed to leave my country and then five was the experience to be grateful for the five things. Really just helped, keep me. Focused on what I was doing. And yeah, I guess that that was the difference between the student. And also this year, I didn't break Under Pressure, I got off trail with an injury in Vermont because it was so muddy. And I lost a day whatever, almost a day. And then I got back on trail and just chased that southbound record that was this year.
[00:34:30] Tayson: You got off Trail for a year or for a day
[00:34:32] Kristian: for a day. Yeah, as well.
[00:34:35] Tayson: Yeah, yeah. That's not. So I just gotta say this as I'm listening to this, it's it's bizarre to me. To hear you. you know, kind of kind of have I don't know, I don't want to call him excuses but like you've kind of like you've touched on a few but, but knowing that, you've done 100 Ultra and knowing that you're willing to do, this would also indicate that you're like, one of the most tough mental physical guys in the world, right? Like you're doing Ridiculously hard things. So it's like it was almost like there's this this separation, right of like I'm gonna get off Trail because of this, I mean off Trail because of this, but then at the same time you're like, crushing things in your life and just it's it almost seems like an unlike there wasn't a parallel going on with some of that, How much of that like, gratitude mindset that you came into this year? Did you have before, was that kind of a new thing for this year? That helped you.
[00:35:36] Kristian: I mean, it was it came to me this year. It didn't come to me last year. You know, I said I'm grateful but I actually these were five things, I was running one more morning had my headlamp on and I just came out with. Hey, I'm grateful for and it just came out. Like I said, it out loud on the trail was like, my mom Iceman, my buddy, the opportunity in the experience and yeah, it's almost I think last year helped me with this year and You know. The experience I gained from last year also having the confidence. Because last year, when I started out I was a guy who stopped 300 miles along the trail. You know, yeah I got the South West Coast Path record, but that's 630 miles this year. I had the confidence to know that I'm the second fastest. Athlete in the world to complete the at besides behind Karl. So, I knew that all I had to do was run slower than myself to and also, the other thing is, I went South this year, so My a goal was to break the overall record, which is 41 Days. 7 hours, and 39 minutes. My beagle was to set a southbound record and to set us out found record I I could run. I think a full day slower than I'd ran last year. So it's almost like going to a marathon a bit. Like, what keeps you said? His PV is one hour, 59 minutes and something. So when he went in with that mindset and all I've got to run is to start thinking to the marathon. So I knew I could get that southbound record. and I did, I got pulled away from the overall record by the the weather conditions, the results of the weather conditions and Stayed on track. I didn't let I had that second goal like getting the southbound record. Yeah so yeah, that confidence.
[00:37:32] Tayson: Yeah. I mean it's in gratitude know it's it's very interesting. I think that I've seen some other famous runners famous athletes. I think they I think the pressure does crack a lot of them. There's a lot of eyes watching him, there's a lot of hype, there's a lot of pressure, they put on themselves and anyone that's performing at this level puts a lot of pressure on himself, right? so that's really interesting and I think that that's, that's amazing that you're able to kind of Step to the side of that, and, and run your own race versus, you know, get trapped in those pressures, right? So, so you start off on the trail this year? I'm really interested to hear because I've interviewed like Joshua Perry and Jeff Garmire, and I'm really interested to hear because there's self their self-supported, right? Whereas you're you are, supported. I'm interested to hear like, what your sleep strategy is on an effort like this, right? Wanna you know, interviewing some of those self-supported guys. They don't run but they all just don't sleep. It seems like they sleep. So little I want to say that like Josh Josh Perry, I want to say it was about four hours. A night is kind of what he was sleeping. So I'm curious what you're like sleep strategy was in an effort like this
[00:38:51] Kristian: yeah, I think there's a big to find the threshold as your sleep is difficult. Like the idea is how little amount of sleep you can have. So, you can maximize the amount of time moving forwards on the trail each day. And I just felt psychologically from me that number was 7 hours. I thought seven hours will give me enough time to rest recover and go again and hit 50 miles. The next day. So I kind of mostly stuck to seven hours and I was, I was preparing on again, to sleep less than that. If I had push on a little bit further, or I can't, I don't think I slept more than that much. Maybe I had a few, eight, our nights, but yeah. Seven, seven for me, was the number and then only maybe I think it was two times. Maybe three. Did I get a little bit sleep deprived? So could I have brought that seven hours down to six thousand thirty minutes, maybe and 30 minutes. Over 45 days is a day. So almost so Know, where's the room for improvement there? But it's, it's hard to, I guess, unless you include mentally bring it down by 15 minutes or something each night and say, okay, let's go back up, I don't feel great. But the problem is, when you start stepping into sleep deprivation, you slow down physically. So you lose so much time. If you're not, if you're tired, your pace goes so and if you're losing A minute a mile you know. Or even let's say you're losing like 45 seconds, a mile and you're doing a 50 mile a day. I don't know what's the math is up. 45 minutes. I didn't know. So I mean
[00:40:35] Tayson: I'm like 40 minutes or something. Yeah, let's call that.
[00:40:38] Kristian: So yeah, so it's You lose a lot.
[00:40:44] Tayson: But yes. Yeah. No, that's actually more sleep than I guess I expected you to say which is really interesting. Obviously, you're putting so much strain on your body that that's still Not a lot of sleep, not a lot of recovery time. When you, when you say seven hours, how long would you be stopped for the night per se between, you know, the wine down getting into your crew? You know probably eating or something and then getting to bed and then getting up in the morning. How long do you think you're actually stopped at those stations? Is that is that seven hours or were you like dead asleep for seven hours?
[00:41:22] Kristian: Yeah. So this is where I'm always stripping down what I do and looking at where I can improve. So my goal was to be in bed within 30 minutes of pressing. Stop on my GPS, watch and lying down with my eyes. Shut, my device is charging. That was the goal. I achieved that goal a number of times but more more times than not, I had 45 minutes between stopping and going to bed. And then also a good too many times. I had a full hour Found it. I found it. I found this out about myself. Is that? Is, I didn't really have Paces. I ran. I think I ran about 2000 Miles by myself and had 200 miles worth of just random people, run with me, except for one guy who are arranged to run with me. So, these were people, I didn't know, I just met on the trail. So when I came in at the end of the day, I've been buying myself so much and I had no one's talked to that. Wasn't enough because I enjoyed that those interactions with my crew, Iceman and Gun Section. It was so it was part of what made a team event. And for me, it was what I enjoyed about the about the whole Idea of a supported attempt. So, Struggles to get it down to 30. I think a way to improve on. That is actually have some Pacers, come along out to see me, spend more time with people on the trail and then not feel that need to actually spend that time in the evening with the crew. Yeah.
[00:42:54] Tayson: Or, or even if depending on who's with your crew, right? If they could meet you four miles from the car, you kind of get an hour to run with them and decompress on the day, right?
[00:43:05] Kristian: That's not a 73 years old. 72. And my mom Gun Section is 60/7. So, yeah, there's And, and when they get there that preparing things, so I actually wouldn't need a PESA. To write up with some of those guys.
[Editor’s note: This passage describes Kristian’s personal 2023 record-attempt sleep strategy. Sleep needs and the risks of sleep deprivation vary; it is not a general recommendation.]
[00:43:21] Tayson: Gotcha. Gotcha. That's, that's super interesting. I mean, you touched on the weather being a really challenging aspect of this one. But maybe. Walk me through kind of your typical day and what that was like, you said it was on you averaged about 50 miles a day, right? So how would you break that up? How much are you eating? Like frequency of eating? Those kinds of things.
[00:43:48] Kristian: Yeah, almost 50. I think it was like 48.8 or 48.9, so, almost 49 miles a day. Rounded up 50, I don't know whatever. Yeah, I'd say, my alarm for 4 a.m., and I would, when your alarm goes off in the morning and you've been running, and you'll please tired, and the bed's not sad. We've tent on top of the Toyota Tacoma. And not sponsored by any roof tent company or anything. Just bought it at my money. I started as a good investment and it was really nice because you've got this spacious. You can put your arms out to sleep. It's made for two people. The mattress actually wasn't super soft, but I'd wake up in the morning and really the last thing I wanted to do was get up and and just move. So I remember Stringbean said, When asked the question about every decision he made, he said, is this decision going to help me. The record or is this going to hint in my progress, in getting the record? So I knew not just based on Stringbean, but I just knew that. As soon as that alarm went off, I needed to go into action mode. So what I did was I made sure my running vest, my shoes socks, hiking poles or food water, everything I needed to start the trail head torch and just go was in the tent with me. So I actually got fully prepared in the tent, got out of the tent and I was ready to go. I started eventually having a, my cold black coffee, heated up by Iceman and then I'd set off and go. And because I was delayed by almost three months, two and a half months. My daylight hours shifted. So I wanted to start on the 20th of sorry on the first of June. So I would have 40 days 41 days of the most amount of daylight hours possible in giving calendar year. And my whole start date was shifted to August the second. I think it was so quite some time. Oh, two months. Okay. So two months shifted by two months and that also shifted the sunrise and it shift Sunset, and it just made me have less daylight hours. So, if I was part of my dad in darkness, for around two and a half hours with my head torch and I saw it as a you know, a milestone and achievement when I was able to take my head torch off, and put it in my pack as like, okay I'm through the night running now and then I'd see my crew and Typically I would have done a long section in the morning so I then I'd have something a little bit more heavy to eat, maybe a bacon and egg half a sandwich and throughout the whole day, I had 150 calories per 30 minutes and it was Natural Foods so no gels. And
[00:46:44] Tayson: 300 calories per hour while you're moving. Is that correct?
[00:46:47] Kristian: Yeah. 300. 415 to 16 hours a day.
[00:46:51] Tayson: Wow. So I'm gonna do some math here. What is that a day?
[00:46:56] Kristian: I think four and a half thousand and then you've got to add my evening meal and my breakfast onto that, which was about 1,000. Yeah.
[00:47:08] Tayson: 7000 calories a day or getting close to that six and a half seven?
[00:47:13] Kristian: Yes, something like that.
[00:47:14] Tayson: Yeah. Okay.
[00:47:15] Kristian: I didn't lose like excesses of weight. So I seem to and I didn't run out of energy. So I felt for me that was the I got told by my Creator on that she up to. It was a 200 calories every 30 minutes because they said us getting a bit skinny, you know.
[00:47:32] Tayson: well, you're still, you're still miles away from like, when I asked when I asked, Josh Perry not to bring up too much, but he was eating like 12,000 calories a day, so that's pretty remarkable that you could eat that much and not be losing significant weight in my mind because Personally, if I was to be doing that many miles, you know, I feel like I'd have to eat more than that.
[00:47:54] Kristian: I looked at my wife, if I looked at my my Strava it tells you how many calories you've done for the run and it was always about 45 4600. So, Obviously, that's my moving time and then you've got to take into account outside of that, which is about 100 or So Cal. Now, it just being said in trees so that's like five and a half thousand calories, I think. Well, I mean listen, if Josh Perry did that and didn't put weight on, he was eating the right amount of food and it made him feel good. It was working.
[00:48:26] Tayson: Yeah, no I think that just shows how efficient you must be like your body, your build, your, you know, things like that. I think for me, I have to consume more because I'm, I'm nearly a 200 pound guy, right? So, I'm sure the just I'm not efficient, right? I'm not a marathon guy, who's just? Lean and and and just extremely, you know, efficient on the trail I'm sure like my I need to improve my my weight to Output ratios I guess. Also man, you know, yeah. Um, so that. Okay. So that's pretty incredible. How like what? You said there was like all solid foods so the the calories that you're eating while running with some of the stuff that you you gravitated towards for that. Because I mean, I guess in my mind you'd be drinking a lot of calories or things like that. But
[00:49:18] Kristian: Last year, I kind of copied from Karl in 2018, and in my fail to temps as well. 19 and 21, and even the South West Coast Path, Karl drank a lot of soda, you know, caffeine free soda. Sprite things like this. And, you know, I saw that was a lot of calories going into his body, just by having a sugar drink, which is easy. But, I've never drank those things. And when I did my attempts, and I kind of copied this year, I said, to myself, I know what I want to make this my own, you know, I want to, I want to make. I want to put my signature on this attempt. I don't really want to copy because now I'm the second fastest in the world from last year, 2022. I have some experience, I've got good credentials, you know. So let's Let's add in some things that I love to eat in my daily diet. And one of the things I discovered in America was these things called Wyman's wild blueberries and the wild blueberries have like two times unless it's marketing two times. The amount of antioxidants then like regular berries. So I would make my crew. I mean, even in my daily life, I was having two portions a day which was about 600 grams or something. And then when I was on trailer, I wanted to up that to three. So I was having a pound of blueberries a day. and, So yeah, I went away from the fizzy drinks and went to more towards things that I think could help heal my body.
[00:50:47] Tayson: Yeah, a lot more natural. So, more than just fruit, you want to the antioxidant effects?
[00:50:54] Kristian: Yeah. I mean there's no much calories in it, I mean there's no calories in it really but I just wanted I enjoyed it in my daily life. I enjoyed I still do tomorrow have a mixture of Karen's blueberries and blackberries and stuff and it's just my go to. It makes me feel good. So I wanted to bring that to the trail and my crew awesome. They had some cool boxes always had my blueberry drinks. That was cool. And then regular stuff, most of the time. I didn't have McDonald's because they had a griddle and they could do bacon and egg themselves, there's no need to drive to McDonald's. So I had a bacon and egg sandwich, which probably had a bit more calories on stayed away from dairy. I kind of had coconut virgin coconut oil instead of my sandwiches. And in the mornings, I had some bagels like coconut coconut butter on there. Not that I'm plant-based at all, you know, I just like that stuff. Yeah, then regular food. Sometimes I had to make his boss. A lot of the time I'm having sandwiches, you know, and these sandwiches consists of avocado and some organic Steak chicken, you know, when could be organic. So I was having chicken and steak every day. Yeah. So and then Some kind of like some, some bars. Some Dry boss, some more meaty boss. Tried to keep the protein kind of pretty high Um you know Eminem's trail mix Cheerios, Chips Ahoy Cheetos that you know like through haikyuu food as well. Yeah and just as I was consistent with it, I was so impressed to I you know I lost some of the skin off my tongue towards the end because I was eating so constantly and I think that acidity from the blueberry drinks and it would stink for the like the last Say week or 10 days, my tongue would sting when I ate food and then like, eventually it would go away and and I kind of lost a little bit of the skin off my tongue. It's just pretty well. and that's Only six, six and a half 7,000 calories, so I don't know what Josh in those happened to that.
[00:53:00] Tayson: I can't imagine that either. That would be I mean, I get that sometimes even at the end of Like, like my own Ultra is because I have to drink so much salt. I'm a very salty sweater, and it starts to start to have effects, you know? Yeah. So how did you come across or like, how did you develop this this nutrition plan for yourself? Is that is that something that you developed from previous years of attempts? Or is that something that you proven on your own time outside of these attempts? Because the interesting thing about what you're doing here is you can't just always go duplicate these things, right? It's like even guys that are running, let's say ultra's, you know, 200 mile distance is. It's very hard to like, you know, go and just on a training run, you know, go without sleep and see how you do or go and try to try to eat for two days straight this kind of run food or so. I mean, I'm curious how you develop that? I mean, I know you're a coach. I know that you, you probably spend a lot of time looking at aspects like this. But yeah, I'm just curious if it was the previous experience or if this is stuff, you're you're spending the year figuring out in in training
[00:54:12] Kristian: So, I've been running hundreds for almost a decade, and I think that's when you start having to think about calories per hour for me personally. and I found it was about 250 to 350 calories, you know 300 or Around that number was The Sweet Spot and if I fell, I was eating too much. I backed up a little bit. If I needed to eat more Audi a little bit more so that was just my experience over the past 10 years of what works for me personally. But also I listened to a lot of podcasts and listen to other older Runners and I read about the science and it seems that Yeah, I mean, I know you had Michael McKnight on your show and he ran 100 miles without eating any calories but that's not that was just a son project unique from everything else, you know? So Uh, that was amazing. But like, in day-to-day 100 miles, I'd say most people seem to be hitting about 300 calories. And when you look at your GPS, watch or your Strava, or whatever it is, if I'm burning about that many calories an hour when I'm running. So depending on the intensity but Zone 2, kind of stuff.
[00:55:22] Tayson: Yeah. Well, I guess what I'm saying though is like, if you're to go run, an 100 Miler, you're pretty much gonna drink. Half of your calories, right? And just those Carby liquid drinks for a lot of people, right? They're just so easy, they go down so easy, and then you're eating, you know, did you only have to figure out like, half of the rest of your diet and, you know, you figure out what's gonna work with your gut? But that's still on the 100 miles, you know, you're doing 2200. He's got to figure out solid foods that continue to agree with you, right? A lot more solid foods.
[00:55:54] Kristian: Yeah, yeah. I mean it's it is tough, It's trial and error and you get I got six days into it. I mean I had 15 days with Karl, you know. That's that's I drew experience from 15 days with Karl I had six days myself in 2019 2020. I had 10 days, 2021 6 days, 22 last year, you know, like 44 days. So I'm reading it says, it's not really the 100. I used 100 Mi an applied it but I definitely not things and I mean when you stop this kind of stuff you're right. You do not have the answers and To find them out along the way and you have to go into it with that. Also, that's one of the mindsets. I went in with that. I don't know what it takes to set the record because I'm about to try to do something. I've never done. I'm gonna reach around to people who have done, what I want to achieve, which was, you know, Karl and Speedgoat. But along the way, I'm gonna have to improvise pivot and find my own way. So yeah, being open to learning as you go and not looking for a template to to apply to yourself, is definitely the right approach. It was for me,
[00:57:03] Tayson: I think that makes a ton of sense, knowing that you're going to have to make adaptations and being prepared. It's it's, you know, kind of like building those buffers in per se mentally, That makes a lot of sense. I mean I I just mentioned this but like you're you're obviously a You do coaching on the side or should I say on the side of your running career but you know, I guess that's like your career as well as this coaching. How much of your coaching is like like what percentage of coaching is just diet.
[00:57:34] Kristian: Oh, so I had a guy, I wouldn't mention his name but he probably know who he is if you listen to this. He said his legs started to feel weak, usually around 30 miles. When he's doing a run, I was asking him questions. And eventually I said, well, how many calories in are you doing? He said 50 okay, we found it, we've solved, you know, we sold to him, it was, you know it wasn't obvious, but for me with the years of experience that I have Super obvious, man. Like, there's gonna come a point when I run around 30 miles your body's just eating fat for energy because you're not putting enough in. So, Yeah, there are a lot of questions about nutrition. It's balanced to also to do with a quick man because obviously used a lot of hiking poles and packs and like, stopping chafing and these kind of things as well. And then obviously strategy, like, don't, you know, people ask well, where should I place myself in the pack? and then, the other thing is, You know, like asking someone the question, when you fall off your personal goal. Are you going to quit or what's going to keep you going? Because we don't always stay on. So, then philosophy and mindset talk. So it's a combination but, yeah. People love to talk about food, big part of it.
[Editor’s note: The calorie figures and nutrition examples above are historical personal accounts, not a universal fueling plan. Individual needs vary with the athlete, duration, intensity, conditions, and medical context.]
[00:58:54] Tayson: Yeah. Now I think that's that's super interesting. So I want to hear, I want to hear what your hardest day on trail was during this fkt attempts. Walk me through what was going on. What was what do you feel like was was one of the most challenging things that you encountered out there?
[00:59:11] Kristian: yeah, I mean, I guess there were many, but I'll just pick one. Yeah, when I was in Vermont and I'd got through the toughest section which has a milestone of Mount Moosilauke are really tough climb. And I went up at so peaceful. I just used my breathing to bring my yourself into a almost like a relaxed yoga mindset and just allowed myself to be present with every single footstep. All the way out that mountain, you know, I was present for every footstep, not three or four steps ahead. I was right where I was at that point. and I felt like almost I just thought great on the other side, I came down and I thought you know, I'm through the hot, I'm through the hard part like now, and then I have them on and it was just so wet and an area because I've run, you know, the trail a lot and as in an area where it's just bone dry last year and they called Vermont for mud, and I was just going through mud and eventually I was just, I was so broken, like, mentally. My my heart was broken. I just thought to myself, I can't do this, like the, the overall record forget about it. It's it's just It's not gonna happen. And then I saw these, these two people and one of the guys pulled out his camera, too high because for a lot of hikers and I said, please don't film me. I'm going through a bad time, I feel really bad and I started crying and I just said I can't do this and he put his arms around me, and the woman who was there started crying because it was a really powerful moment and he said, don't allow yourself to believe that you're a failure. And I'd felt and he said the right thing at the right time because what I felt at that point was a failure. So I was upset but that kindness lifted me really high and it was just one of the things that carried me forwards on that trail. So people's kindness can take you a long way. It really can, I had loads of tough days that was just a small part of a tough day.
[01:01:22] Tayson: Yeah, no. That's such a It's really a beautiful experience out there on the trail. You know, the trail provides I guess. Yeah, that's a really, really cool. Story that I
