[00:00:00] Tayson: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Live Ultralight Podcast powered by Outdoor Vitals today in this episode, we are talking about freeze dried meals, specifically what it takes to create a freeze dried meal and maybe what separates, um, more premium freeze dried meals from a lower quality freeze dried meal and why that can be important to you. I know that over the years I have had all kinds and I try to test almost every meal I can get my hands on and there's a massive difference between the more premium side of things and the lesser premium side of things. And obviously taste is a huge factor. Um, you know, depending on what you're doing out there, you obviously want to be eating something that you love and it tastes great. And sometimes you'll find yourself in situations out there where you don't feel hungry and when you have a very delicious meal out there at your disposal, that makes all the difference in the world for you being able to get those calories in, get recovery started and really reset the next day versus have it go the other direction where the next day becomes harder and harder. If you're trying to stick to some kind of schedule or, or mileage goals. Um, overall, I think food is incredibly important, which is exactly why we brought on the guests that we did. So in this episode, we brought on Jeff Garmire and Luke Pearsall from ReadyWise meals, uh, they recently came out with meals that are available on the Live Ultralight Membership right now, which I'll touch on in a second, but they recently came out with eight new meals in their pro series edition. Um, these really stepped up the game for ReadyWise, um, prior to these meals, I wasn't a huge fan of, of some of the, the ReadyWise meals that they had, but they completely rewrote the script and I'm all about rewriting the script, right? It's all about what you're creating now and where you're moving towards. And these are premium. We had our entire team, uh, utilize utilize these on the Colorado trail. As well as a handful of other adventures that we went on this year to make sure that we, we truly stood behind the meals, liked the meals that they sat well with us and the, the vote was unanimous that we liked them. And now we do have them in the Live Ultralight Membership. So if you're unfamiliar with the Live Ultralight Membership, just really quickly. Um, that is our membership at Outdoor Vitals where it's 10 bucks a month. That 10 bucks goes into store credit that never expires. So you have that, um, at your disposal to spend at any time. But as a part of that, one of the benefits, I'll just touch on this one is that retail items are gated inside of there. So you can buy, um, these ReadyWise meals inside of the membership at a discount because you get a year round discount and we offer rebates on them. So you really won't be able to buy these anywhere else for any cheaper than inside the Live Ultralight Membership. And that is because it is gated and exclusive. So if you're looking to pick up backpacking meals, that is going to be your best place to find meals that are both trusted by us and our team and also get them at the best possible prices every day of the year. Even if you join the Live Ultralight Membership for just the meals, you can easily, you can easily pick up, you know, 12 plus meals a year and use all of the credit for joining that Live Ultralight Membership and then all of the other benefits are just additional to it. So go join that membership. If you're interested in, um, ReadyWise meals, Peak Refuel or anything else. But today we're really focused on what it takes to make these meals, why they're so important, um, which is why it was awesome. We were able to bring Jeff and Luke onto the podcast.
[Editor’s note: The membership terms, prices, discounts, product access, and availability described here were recorded in December 2023 and should not be treated as current offers. Check current Outdoor Vitals primary information before making a purchase.]
[00:03:30] Tayson: Now, Jeff has been on the podcast before. He's an extreme athlete. He's someone who's hiked, um, tens of thousands of miles, multiple FKTs. Um, he's a triple crowner as well as a bunch of other trails that he's done. Um, and now he's even coaching in endurance racing as well as an endurance racing athlete himself. So a massive, massive resume of time on trail. And he's going to be someone who has seen all extremes, um, from poor nutrition and meal quality all the way up to, you know, when you're racing at an elite level, um, nutrition is, is half of the race, right? So someone who's seen it all and experienced so many miles on trail.
[Editor’s note: The statement that nutrition is “half of the race” is broad commentary about one elite athlete’s experience, not a measured share of race performance or general nutrition guidance.]
[00:04:14] Tayson: And then Luke also, who was the brand manager at ReadyWise has a ton of experience in the outdoor industry, um, as a media professional and is just extremely well connected and bring so much energy, which you guys will see in this podcast, um, just full of energy, full of excitement, uh, for what they have going on there and they're continuing to push, which we'll get to at the very end of this episode. So join with me as we talk about what it takes to bring these meals to life, but more importantly, how they benefit you as, as a hiker, um, as an athlete, as a car camper, whatever it is you're doing, why they're important to you and how to make sure to get the right ones when you're shopping around. All right. I've got Luke and Jeff on the podcast today from ReadyWise to talk about their new pro meals and maybe a little bit more specifically. The meal that Jeff helped to create with ReadyWise. I'm really hoping guys to dive into some of the backstory of how the heck you create a meal from scratch, what that process looks like. But also being able to talk to two experts. Like you, I'm hoping to learn about maybe things to look for or things to avoid in freeze-dried meals, just in general. But before we get there, I'd love to hear kind of the backstory of how you guys got involved with ready, wise, your, your background in these type of Creation and just start right there. So, Maybe let's start with you Luke. I think. Yeah, podcasters, they know Jeff a little bit more. He's been on the show, he's repeating. Yeah, so What are you Luke and just here kind of how you got into this this world.
[00:05:48] Luke: Yeah. So I had a career in film and television actually, before I became heavily involved in the outdoor industry and I sort of did that whole outdoor influencer thing inadvertently. Only because I was a creative in the outdoor. So it kind of naturally happened for me as as those years kind of passed, I started to do more Consulting with outdoor Brands and things like that, and fortunately, I was able to bring all the experience from, you know, all the trails that I like, and all the camping experiences that I've had like, into the creation of these new meals. And when I was hired by ReadyWise, the idea was to create these premium meals that Didn't exist anywhere else on the market you know, premium ingredients but the most important thing we're going to do was bringing in athletes like Jeff and Jeff had become a very close personal friend of mine in 2020 here in the pandemic I had to Colorado Trail in about four four five times as long as Jeff liked it that year.
[00:06:54] Tayson: Get my high five as you run by.
[00:06:55] Jeff: Yeah, I like the beta tester and then he really finished it out. A lot of his success is based on my success and we actually met at the end of the Colorado, my finish of the Colorado Trail. We talked virtually because the covid stuff and then Luke was out there to greet me at the finish of the Colorado Trail fkt. So that kind of launched the in-person friendship. And now I just stay at his house a few times a year.
[00:07:24] Luke: Yeah, yeah, no. It's it was great. I mean, just like little Side Story there, Jeff obviously had like documentary crew filming his his fkt attempt and they're waiting for the big moment. I was just this guy that showed up to meet, you know, someone knew virtually for six months and they were all waiting and waiting. They didn't know what he was gonna come in. And as they sat down and took a break and go, oh, hey Jeff and all of them had put the cameras down and I wasn't coming in but he So the film crew absolutely lost it for a moment of panic. I had a good laugh.
[00:08:04] Tayson: Yeah. Sounds pretty solid. They remember you after that one?
[00:08:09] Luke: Absolutely. But to answer your question, um, yeah, I did some Consulting for ReadyWise and had this vision for what I thought would be, you know, the next big meal line and and fortunately enough, they they really appreciated my vision and hired me full-time to come on board and make that a reality. And the fortunate opportunity, I have is to bring people like Jeff and some of our other pro athletes Along on this kind of fun ride to kind of promote some of the Lesser known but still like amazing athletes that we have in our Authority.
[00:08:59] Tayson: Yeah. So maybe talk to me a little bit about ReadyWise is a brand then, right? So, ReadyWise has made meals for a long time and this like not survival but like food, emergency storage, emergency space. And then also in backpacking, a little bit, but maybe weren't as as big as say, you know, the the gorilla in the room of Mountain House, right? And yeah, for sure. So, you know, talk to me a little bit, maybe about their backstory, they're pushed to come into this. And then I'd kind of love to hear about like, is there specific resources or things that you guys were able to step into that the helped Pioneer or just create opportunity for you to to make a more premium meal.
[00:08:59] Luke: yeah, I think our biggest resource that we have truly is Jeff and Zelzin Aketzalli and Andrew and Ike Eastman who we made meals with. Because I mean collectively they probably have a hundred thousand miles of Earth beneath their feet on trails and, and their Insight.
[00:09:47] Tayson: That's just numbers.
[00:09:48] Luke: Yes, yeah,
[00:09:49] Tayson: that's just Jeff's number between all of them.
[00:09:51] Luke: Yeah. Jeff ads about. I don't know. I'm gonna give you like 40,000 now. A lot if you count training.
[00:09:59] Jeff: Probably weigh about that.
[00:10:00] Tayson: Oh, yeah. It's, it's pretty high. I mean, yeah. But but so gone.
[00:10:06] Luke: Yeah, and ReadyWise, as a company existed, as an emergency company started, in Salt Lake City for about 10 years before they started to dip their toe in the water of backpacking camping meals, things like that, and surely like they had the knowledge to create those meals, but I don't think they had someone like me who has had the experience on trail to kind of Direct them in a way that sort of. Do a little bit more into what Backpackers and hikers and Hunters are actually looking for. So once it was hired we you know, I got a lot of the confidence that the company to really take this thing and use my, my resources and knowledge, to really take it to the next level. And really having a premium meal, is kind of a trend in freeze-dried meals right now. And I don't think that any company that's trying to create a budget meal per se right now is headed in the right direction because people, if you get one good meal on trail, it better be a good one, you know. And that was our goal, the whole time to create high calorie. Hi protein and and really clean meals, that people can enjoy, you know. We like to think we call them Wednesday meal, you don't necessarily need to be on trail, but if you don't have food on Wednesday night, you could, you could open a pouch and enjoy it, you know.
[00:11:28] Tayson: Yeah, I think, yeah, I don't want to be like insensitive to economic situation of people, but I think you're spot on with, with the more premium side of meals, these days, right? I think, you know, the reality is people have more discretionary income than they've ever had and the history of the world, right? I mean, the economy is rough a little bit right now but in general, there's just Things that people care about, they have more discretionary income to invest into those things. And so with the with taking perhaps and this is, this is maybe a an interesting point of just speak on without taking the long trailers. You know, the through hikers into consideration, who probably struggle to purchase these that often write every single day or multiple times a day to be, to be carrying those. That gets pretty expensive, but for the people that are going out and just want to really good weekend, right? Like, yeah, they're eating it. Costa Vida. Anyways, so this you know something like this is the same price as something like that anymore because eating out is so expensive. And so to me I think there is a bit of a trend shift in my eyes of, you know, people are willing to put money into some of these things, to create those experiences and just inflation. In general has crept up to the point where yeah, like this is just your typical like middle of the road. Yeah. For eating out these days. Whereas, you know, even 10 years ago I feel like you know this would have been quite Expensive of a meal. This would have been a sit-down meal you know it with a server and everything and now it's it's not
[00:12:56] Luke: right. Yeah, it's that that price point is, you know, when we originally started we had to go through all the exercises of being like is 13.99 a price point that people are willing to pay and the answer is absolutely. We actually become we come in at a mid-range meal in terms of price point. Now many of the smaller like Boutique companies are 50.95 all the way up to 1995, which, you know, 1995 for me, starts getting no matter what the meal. So it's getting a little. I want to pay that in a restaurant on my car.
[00:13:31] Jeff: And I think the big thing too is there's no reason to try to compete with Ramen or Ramen bombs and stuff too. So the the whole budget philosophy as far as across all Outdoor Sports and stuff is sort of like you can't make a meal for that. So why wouldn't you just put out a better meal and if people want to have a Ramen bomb, like, absolutely go for it? That's your budget way to do it through hike. And maybe once in a while, you do get that premium meal. Like when I was in Pie Town on the Continental Divide Trail. Just some people eating at the restaurant. There gave me a couple Freeze-dried meals and those are just like celebratory things that you have in your pack for once a week or so, at most. And I mean, it's not It's not. Economical to try to compete with the cheapest way to just get calories. So I think that that's really the, the aim and especially encompassing and going across multiple disciplines, just especially with the athletes, that gotten to know and create meals with two. That's really the, the focus is combined a number of those things because you know, everyone's using the same public lands and in the grand scheme of things as well.
[00:14:45] Luke: Yeah and I think Jeff knows like Jeff's on the bean burrito train before you know but you know nutrition actually Becomes part of your team when you're doing the things you do. You know.
[00:15:00] Jeff: Yeah, I think a Ramen bomb would probably sit in my gut just as good as a Mountain House, right? So, so yeah, why why have those two compete? Maybe I'll jump into the next year.
[00:15:11] Luke: And when we created a meal with Ike Eastman, who is kind of a renowned hunter in the hunting industry? His whole thing was like I'm done eating those. He's like I'm not gonna put my name on anything that that I don't think it's not gonna give me the gut bomb. And so, you know, tested tested in Ike Eastman’s gut, I guess we could say
[00:15:35] Tayson: Yeah so it sounds like to back up just a little bit for you. Jeff eating a meal like this on a through hike is more like you know, a couple times a week celebratory. Like all right, I want to good meal. I mean obviously you're going in and out of towns at times but some of these trails are not in and out of towns as much so I could see that really breaking up the monotony of of budget or maybe the lower quality food, right? Yeah. And I would think
[00:16:00] Jeff: More. And now it's harder to get away for a four-month or like I've done before an eight-month through hike and I'm doing a lot of races or overnight things or car camping at the start line of 100 Miler and a lot of these meals really fit into that's what you would have the night before going into something because I mean it's all real ingredients too. It tastes good and you don't have to spend 10 minutes boiling, your your noodles or something just to have some average, mac and cheese and stuff before. So I think it just fits in pretty well into that versatility aspect of it. And yeah if I did another through hike, maybe once or twice a week or something, but it it really is that across discipline type thing and I'm just fits into the whole car camping, ethos as much as it does the through hiking world as well because everyone can go on, maybe a through hiker, maybe three if there are triple crown or but your whole life can't be through hiking get You still want to get out there and, yeah, a real job. You can spend a little bit more money on a little bit better food,
[00:17:04] Luke: and that 100 mile like 100 to 100. 150 miles. Sweet spot. Okay, everyone for every day.
[00:17:11] Tayson: Yeah, I mean that's a weedy, right? We do a program called The 100 miles challenge where we get a bunch of our, our followers to do that with us. And, I mean, that's what we're doing. We're eating one of these for every dinner and then a lot of times, they'll even pack like You know, some like, we'll pack some of these for breakfast. Sometimes I would say, honestly, a lot of times I see people eating these for dinner as much as well as breakfast. But, but yeah, I mean, I'm typically taking one or two, pre-packaged meals like this a day and then I just have to come up with, you know, whatever lunch I want. Which for me. I'm a sucker for anything I can put mayonnaise on. I don't know why. I get I'd crave mayonnaise out there.
[00:17:49] Luke: It's squeezing it out
[00:17:52] Tayson: like tape. A mayonnaise packet to one of your generation. I'm, I'll be your number one guy.
[00:17:58] Luke: We'll send you
[00:17:59] Tayson: but yeah, no. I'm the same. I mean, if you're doing 100 miles or 150 miles, It's a distance that you can you can afford to and just have the space to like we pack one of these for every day. So
[00:18:15] Luke: like you said, you could go to Starbucks in the morning and said 1399
[00:18:19] Tayson: so I'm not a I'm not a big coffee drinker, right? Yeah. Every day I I do drink like caffeine a lot of caffeine I would say but just blows me away, it blows me away like the People that go and get a Starbucks every single day to
[00:18:41] Luke: watch every day. I know.
[00:18:43] Tayson: Yeah. Just like that's me guys. Shut up. But
[00:18:45] Luke: no, I got my friend now. So he's like three times a day. Yeah he also has access to unlimited ReadyWise coffee. So
[00:18:54] Tayson: Oh, I'm gonna have to try that out. I haven't tried this coffee.
[00:18:57] Jeff: I think it's the best deal on the whole site and it's completely unbiased because I should say, it's my meal, but the coffee is the best, the best deal.
[00:19:05] Tayson: Okay.
[00:19:05] Luke: It's kind of been our sleeper product. Honestly we wanted to get a good coffee and when it hit the market people You know, our price point is very good compared to the competitors, you know? For the same amount, our closest competitor and the coffee ground. Charges 25 dollars. We charge 8.99. Cups of
[00:19:30] Tayson: coffee. Instant coffee or like a steeped coffee or?
[00:19:34] Luke: Yeah, it's a freeze-dried coffee. So it's coffee. That's freeze dried. Yeah,
[00:19:37] Tayson: okay, okay, yeah, I'll have to look into it. I don't know if we stock that yet so we'll have to
[00:19:42] Luke: yes,
[00:19:43] Tayson: it is. It not really considered the pro meal side of things.
[00:19:48] Luke: So it's done. So well that we're gonna transition it. We're gonna change the backing on it and it's gonna be absorbed into the Pro Meal line.
[00:19:56] Tayson: Awesome.
[00:19:57] Luke: Yeah. Some customers, love it.
[Editor’s note: The coffee pricing, packaging, availability, and planned product-line changes in this preceding 2023 discussion are historical and may no longer apply.]
[00:20:01] Tayson: Yeah, so to back up, just a little bit about like the creation process of food. I mean, in my head, what it takes to create something like this is like you've got a chef who's, like, backing into things and, and like, oh, you can't do that with this type of meal or you can do that with this type of meal because not everything. Freeze dries, great, right? Like I want to say butter doesn't freeze dry great. All right. So yeah, I'd love to hear kind of getting into the nitty-gritty of like what it takes to create a high caliber meal and how you, how you get to that point?
[00:20:37] Luke: it's Good. Like, we're talking about that now, I I just finished a tasting with eight eight meals. So I am full and full of experience at the moment. Surely like it does. It starts with like a big idea list and it's like, okay what are we think about? Like what are meals that you crave or, you know, and Jeff's case, he was like, I want to know that I can eat like on the tortilla for dinner or breakfast and that makes sense like his breakfast skillet is like loaded with sausage and things like that. But truly we We start with a list and then we go into like what things on this list are not doable. Like you said Butters. Really hard? Bacon is really hard anything with the super high fat content. You really have to avoid. You can freeze dry it, but it doesn't have a very long shelf life and the point of a freeze-dried meal is that, you know, these meals are shelf like playing at least on the new meals because we don't have shelf samples. Yet is five years, but if you had like butter or bacon in it, it would be as low as one. So, you know, you have to be really careful with things like that because rancidity is just gross when it happens. And you can totally tell if you open an old bag that kind of answering got into or whatever. It's not a great experience and we don't want anyone to have that. But we go through, like, I would say. He iteration of a meal before it gets to a point where we're like this is really good, we think we can do it. At that point, you have to back into it and say can we afford to do it? So we make them we we want and then we're like, okay, what are these ingredients cost? So for Jeff. Did you like
[00:22:21] Tayson: create your own Skillet and then basically just send it into him and then they try to tell you what you can and can't do from there? Is that kind of the process for you?
[00:22:29] Jeff: It was a number of phone calls with What is it your it was a like a chef, a cool. Yeah, R&D. Yeah, culinary trained people and went through kind of the first call was what I would want, which was like potatoes in some sort of breakfast, type Skillet or breakfast meal type thing. And then that's when they play with it. Some and then come up with something and then case and then it becomes more feasibility, beyond that and substituting things. And then when it goes from smaller batch, to larger batch too, is is quite a difference as well. And so, it's a lot of back and forth in the idea phase and then it's tasting it. And then, at some point, you meet in the middle on what's feasible, and then what? Yeah, what you're what it's going to become and then you get to do the fun stuff like the back of the packaging and that kind of thing.
[00:23:28] Tayson: Okay, so this wasn't necessarily like Grandma's like Secret Sauce. This was more of like, hey, this is what I'm really Engineering in my head. Like, I want something with potatoes and I want something with this, I want it to be able to, maybe not be so soupy, that I can put on a tortilla or like you're kind of giving them like these. These high level bullet points and then you're just collaboratively working on, phone calls and iterations and just lots and lots of that.
[00:24:00] Jeff: Yeah, grandma, she wouldn't have made a single, could have been freeze dried that stuff. Had so much that just the best character. I don't think she was fit for ready, wise work, but it really does come from the idea of my love of breakfast. Does come from her breakfast sandwiches that were just dripping and in fats. So we got some cheese in there for you though. We
[00:24:22] Luke: got some chips
[00:24:23] Jeff: but yeah, it is. It did start with like a Google form and then jump on a call and then narrow down on it and then taste it a couple iterations and then move move forward with the larger batch put it out sample I guess we sampled it before it was even released too. I went out to CDT Trail days. We sampled it even it Outdoor Retailer. Just get Yeah. Probably we were you guys came on
[00:24:52] Tayson: my radar out on a with it as I think I tasted it there and you guessed that it was coming and so then I was I was watching for it after that.
[00:24:59] Jeff: yeah, and I think that's the key is, you know, me Luke and a handful of others, could try it, but I mean, the sample size is kind of the thing you want to make sure it's applying to more a Mass Appeal rather than just a few people with the select. Discretion. Yeah you
[00:25:17] Luke: can't even go to like yeah, sort of jump on you there, but like you can't even go to like Trail days because they're all hungry anyway.
[00:25:23] Jeff: you know, they'll take whatever you Yeah, yeah,
[00:25:28] Tayson: for sure, I'm still laughing a little bit about Grandma Garmire because there must have been something about that era, right? Because I never knew why my grandma's like pancakes were so good until one time instead of being off playing while she's making breakfast. I watched her butter, the pinks. It's like it's like a cube of butter per pancake and you're like, oh, Yeah,
[00:25:55] Jeff: that's exactly.
[00:25:55] Tayson: I think life is changed right? Like people pay attention to macronutrients now is back. Then it was just like yeah yeah. I want to add large to something because what do you do? What do you do to like for specific? Specifically fats. How are you eating fats in there? That was still freeze dry. Like I don't know if this one here has, yeah, but so what do you have? You have Jeff's there? Yeah, moms here. Got 16 grams of saturated, fat know. Yeah, that's three grams of total.
[00:26:31] Luke: That's usually comes from the protein, and the protein, and like, his has cheese in it as well. So, that the sausage is where a lot of that fat comes from. And that one
[00:26:39] Tayson: that makes sense. Okay. So just can be like solid fat, it has to be.
[00:26:43] Luke: Yeah. Oh that's the butter thing. You can actually have butter. But it needs to be incorporated. So like, if you're making like a roux, which is butter and flour, that's sort of like some in some. I'm not a food scientist, but it's stabilizes that butter somehow, when it's attached to something else, which is kind of interesting. Maybe.
[00:27:06] Tayson: Okay.
[00:27:06] Luke: Yeah. So you don't want to use a ton of it, but a little butter in in a recipe, it's not bad. Like, Biscuits have butter in it, you know, things like that.
[00:27:16] Tayson: Gotcha. Yeah. So it's a really interesting process honestly. Yeah, you take it through this entire process, you go from for my dear concept to going through that, then you are doing small batches, your taste testing those and then you're jumping to Big batches, right? And with the company, like, ReadyWise for my understanding, we're talking like, really big batches, right? Like yeah, other freeze-dried companies that I've talked to have like Almost semi truck sized freeze dryers right? Yeah. Huge machines right? I don't know. Is that kind of similar with what you guys are doing?
[00:27:52] Luke: Yeah, we freeze-dry and very large machines
[00:27:55] Tayson: there. Yeah. And are you making these in those same size of machines? Like matte like those huge batch machines.
[00:28:02] Luke: Yeah, yeah. So we do large, large batch, set of time, you know? And when we, when we order meat, it's in the thousands of pounds at a time, you know?
[00:28:12] Tayson: Yeah. And
[00:28:13] Jeff: it's all cooked together, too first before you even send it off. So, that's kind of the difference in the whole process as well.
[00:28:19] Tayson: Yeah, let's talk about the difference is here because, you know, for you guys like you're not using, I don't know. And in a lot of these like they'll put like two full cups of water in a breakfast skillet specifically. Right. And I've heard that that part of the reason why these premiums don't require that is there's less filler. Is that true? Maybe speak to that.
[00:28:41] Luke: Yeah, so like the way we do it is the whole meal is fully cooked before. It gets freeze dried which kind of changes like the molecular structure of the of the food you not having to free. We hydrate every single elements before. Uh, before the food becomes rehydrate again. So when you look at like some of the traditional meals, I'll probably shy away from saying any other names. They if they just put a lot of freeze-dried ingredients with like a powder, Sauce into a pouch and the flavor combination happens when it's rehydrating not before. So, our flavor happens in the cooking process. So, when you're rehydrating it, it's just becoming a real meal again.
[00:29:25] Tayson: Right, and
[00:29:26] Luke: right. And the brands that are really like stepped up with flavor and things like that are using that method and it takes way, less watery hydrate. And, and way less time, when you fully cook and not freeze dry that way.
[00:29:40] Tayson: Okay.
[00:29:41] Luke: I know you've been playing around with the Harvest Right? A little bit, right.
[00:29:43] Tayson: Yeah, we do have a Harvest Right Here. Correct?
[00:29:45] Luke: Yeah. So you probably find that as well. When you fully cook meal and freeze dry it that you get a similar process in the rehydration side of things.
[00:29:55] Tayson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean and that that does make sense right because it's like I don't know let's say you're adding in like powdered milk or something like that. It's almost like you have to liquefy that and then try to get it to absorb in and there's just, it's almost like that. Yeah, the extra step there. Yes more than if it was already. You know, facilitated throughout the meal right? So yeah
[00:30:16] Luke: it's it's super interesting and you know even freeze-dried companies learn new things about freeze drying every day, you know, some ingredients you put in you say, huh wonder why that like had that reaction, you know. I mean I personally have freeze-dried everything in an hour test and freeze dryer. I mean, everything from Skittles to, you know, you name it, I'll throw it in there. Pickles. Churros. Try it all.
[00:30:39] Tayson: What's the best thing?
[00:30:41] Luke: Do pickles. Get so salty it. Condenses that salt flavor. You would have to have like a very lightly brand pickle. I think that's coming in. Jeff.
[00:30:53] Tayson: Jeff's coaching program?
[00:30:55] Jeff: Yeah,
[00:30:56] Tayson: those out for people that are cramping. That's what I need. I cramp a lot. I run. So, Slama freestyle.
[00:31:09] Luke: I love to do it. We've done. Guacamole is really good rehydrates really? Well, that's
[00:31:17] Tayson: a high fatty one. That's interesting. Yeah,
[00:31:19] Luke: that's a high-fat. We have to test that a little bit before he brought it to Market, but Um, you know, stuff like that is is always fun to play around with. you get to just, Take things you love even if it's like a fatty food. If you were gonna have a fatty food and you're gonna eat it, like on a trip, you're going on like if you did it in your Harvest, Right dryer you could do it. You know you're not keeping it for years and years, right virtually. So
[Editor’s note: The manufacturing, shelf-life, ingredient, water-use, and rehydration statements in this historical discussion describe the speakers’ experience and ReadyWise’s 2023 process. Follow the current package label and manufacturer instructions for a specific meal.]
[00:31:43] Tayson: to taste good, maybe some freeze-dried, it
[00:31:47] Jeff: Blow up. Does it blows up?
[00:31:51] Luke: Yeah, caramel caramel explodes for whatever reason. Yeah. Ice cream can get a little wild in there. Yeah.
[00:31:58] Tayson: Come out like a gelato like a really high-end Ice Cream Sandwich.
[00:32:03] Jeff: Oh yeah, like that. Are you tried some ice cream? The other day? That was Top Notch. Yeah,
[00:32:09] Tayson: I could get my eye because I think that's what I created going back to like the mayonnaise. I crave like the fats. I think. Yeah. So something like ice cream would would definitely hit the spot for me.
[00:32:18] Luke: That's, I think a lot of like the dishes, like the pasta alla, vodka has cream in it, you know? But when the cream is freeze dried, he's still get some of that fattiness that comes back and it's very satiating when you're
[00:32:29] Tayson: when you're out there. So what do you think are some things to look for and avoid with freeze-dried meals like we've, we've kind of danced around it or touched on a few points. Maybe, but is there anything we've, we've maybe missed You know, because I think there is that, you know, some even for, maybe five years back, right? It was like freeze-dried meals, they don't sit well, or they?
[00:32:53] Luke: Yeah,
[00:32:53] Tayson: you know, they, whatever it is right. Is there, is there things that can be learned from all of your guys's experience with this to just avoid her to look at differently. I mean, Jeff, you've probably had some gut bombs from some meals in your day. I'm assuming
[00:33:09] Jeff: yeah, I think the biggest thing though, is Probably going. Yeah, five, five, ten years ago. Everything was so packed with sodium that you would have to drink. You have to take an extra leader of water to bed with you just because it would be have so much sodium in it. And I think that's been a pretty big changing thing is, maintaining a real meal rather than something coded and salt as well.
[00:33:31] Tayson: Why were they was that part of like the the filler process of the preservation process to add that much sodium? Because I mean I remember people talking about like their hand swelling up and all sorts of things right here. Yeah.
[00:33:41] Luke: I mean, I will say that there is a big challenge reducing sodium and meals because so many things have salt in it, these days. Like, when you make up biscuits and gravy the biscuit has so much salt in it, that it like raises the rate of the sodium so hot, you know, so the whole meal might be low and sodium, but that single biscuit is like, you know, it up, you know, the other things to look at our, like, if a brand is using fillers and cheap Meats, we do not use cheap meat at all. It is like, More than half the cost of every meal because we put a lot of meat in it. And we have a very reputable very well known source for our meet and it makes a big big difference.
[00:34:28] Tayson: Yeah. I mean not that is to me what sets apart like a premium mil versus not as you can taste. That difference of good quality meat, for sure and and the amount of meat as well. when you say filler, do you just mean like I don't know if it's something with rice in it, like extra rice or do you mean like something that someone could read on a package? Yeah,
[00:34:47] Luke: like it. There's like TVP is a filler all. So like people like other brands in order to get the protein up, we'll put in like pee proteins. Are are powder powdered proteins so they can make the high protein claim. But it's not it's not adding any flavor to the To the meal. It's just getting into like a marketable number.
[00:35:09] Tayson: Yeah. And if you've never had pea protein, I could see why that could wreck your guy. Yeah. Like try those times and it's like if you're not used to that it's different. I mean, it's it's way different.
[00:35:20] Luke: Yeah. I like I I would always look at the back of the package and for the most part, you should be able to read everything on it. If you don't know what it is, then you should probably rethink purchasing that, you know, some ingredients are natural ingredients. That sound crazy. That generally, like, the public would know, like niacin in an egg, right? Niacin is just a natural ingredient. And every freeze-dried egg has it.
[00:35:48] Tayson: yeah, like I'm looking at the back of this and I'll just hit you with any questions I have. So there's eggs and you've got. Yep. xanthan gum.
[00:35:59] Luke: That's a xanthan gum is like—it makes it so the eggs don't get runny,
[00:36:05] Tayson: okay. And then you just got one that just says enzymes. Enzymes? Yeah, enzymes are just like—it’s, yeah, the natural enzymes in egg. But I'm looking at like, I don't know, 20 plus items on here and I know it every single one of them is right, like a lot of times you flip a package over and it's like, I know one of ten of these, right? Yeah. That's that's probably the more common thing anymore. I feel like I know like, two out of the ten or something like, yeah.
[00:36:34] Luke: Like some common ones that you'll see here. Like maltodextrin maltodextrin, isn't like dangerous for, really anything but it's in almost all even the cleanest freeze-dried meals. Just a carbohydrate.
[00:36:53] Tayson: Okay, I think that's, I think that's helpful for people, for sure. I think I do think. I mean, we preach it a lot, right? If you're doing, if you're doing big miles, I think nutrition is huge, right? And some people have iron guts and some people don't and some people need specific nutrition and some people don't, I mean, you know, Jeff you're talking about, you know, coaching coaching running athletes and fkt people right now. Like nutrition is in my eyes, one of the biggest components of that, right? Like and I'm and I don't have Katie, it's not like your stop and probably to make one of these, right? But but people are becoming super conscious of what they're eating. and, and I think that that's It's an interesting direction that we're heading in. And so as you guys, I guess looked at making all of these meals that you and you rolled out, was it eight meals? Eight, eight emails. Yeah. Um, I mean, like, is your is your looking at that? Would you really leave it 100% up to the athletes where you looking to hit Target thresholds of like macronutrients was there any? Yeah. Was there any kind of template or borderlines that you try to Reign people in a little bit on, or
[00:38:05] Luke: Yeah, sort of like we wanted to make sure that like our benchmarks were basically calories protein carbohydrates the start because we want it to be as balanced as possible for the athletes. And really, we took a lot of that. Information from people like Jeff and Zelzin Aketzalli and Alex. Like they know kind of what they want to consume in a day. So we we started and used that and if we had to just as we went along, like if the saturated fat got crazy or whatever, we dialed those things down, you know? And we try to as a company, like, pay attention to things like sodium, sometimes it gets a little bit out of control, like you just can't get to where it needs to be. So don't get super concentrated when it's freeze dried. But you know, for the most part we are very conscious of what's going in these meals and and really want to put out a product that will help athletes. And just people in general that are that are high output people like really have a meal that will suit their nutritional needs on trail.
[Editor’s note: The ingredient, sodium, protein, digestion, and nutrition comments in this 2023 discussion are general and product-specific observations, not individualized nutrition or medical guidance. Use current labels and account for your own needs and tolerances.]
[00:39:06] Tayson: I think another
[00:39:07] Jeff: oh, I was gonna say another big thing going in was the Lesser water needed for it and then also the quicker rehydration time because yeah, I remember in 2016 on the county or Triple Crown, if I had a freeze-dried meal I would cook it and then hike another mile and a half before it was ready to eat. So like six minutes. Yes, exactly. And even just now it's sort of like you can boil your water pour in and then set up your your tent and then it's ready to eat by the time you're set up for camp, this is
[00:39:41] Luke: gave me a great marketing idea Jeff We'll put a meal in and see how far you can run before it is really.
[00:39:48] Jeff: I like this. Yeah, I'll do it on a track and see how many? Yeah, yeah
[00:39:53] Luke: average time four and a half minutes.
[00:40:00] Tayson: Yeah, I mean, I remember from, from years ago and you would eat a freeze-dried meal that wasn't fully rehydrated yet too. It was like that was part of where, a lot of the discomfort in the stomach came, right?
[00:40:12] Luke: Yeah.
[00:40:12] Tayson: Whereas I've, I can eat these even if I didn't want to wait the full amount of time or I'm a little bit ahead. Yeah, and I don't experience that at all either.
[00:40:20] Luke: Yeah, we want people to have like the perfect rehydrated experience but you know you we all know here that like people don't wait long enough, they don't mix it up. There's a lot of user error in these and like everyone's in a while you get a crunchy bit. It's kind of part for the course you know, but truly like these should alleviate a lot of that with the process. Yeah.
[00:40:44] Tayson: And I like you guys as focus on on protein, I feel like that's one of the things that can be hard. Like so if you're supplementing this or eating one of these a day, I think having a good meal with with a substantial amount of protein. Helps balance out the day, just a little bit too, right? Yeah, carbs are pretty easy to pick up at heck, a gas station, right? Yeah. It's, it's things more like the protein protein that that, yeah, like can help write the day per se a little bit in terms of nutrients. But yeah and
[00:41:13] Luke: for us like with the proteins like proteins are super important and we We spend, we did not change out on them. Our stroganoff sometimes. We've got feedback that people are like. This is very meaty, like, it's more meat than noodles, sometimes, you know,
[00:41:29] Tayson: pretty dense. Yeah, I've I've had similar thought eating that as well. Yeah,
[00:41:34] Luke: yeah.
[00:41:35] Tayson: Not complaining. I like yeah,
[00:41:36] Luke: yeah, I know what? No one ever complains that they got too much meat in the meal, for sure.
[00:41:41] Tayson: Yeah, so maybe let's let me talk a little bit or have Jeff talked a little bit about just nutrition in general, when you're going out on hikes. Let's say you're doing. 20 miles a day. So just a 20-mile day and you're backpacking, you know, kind of hit that like 20 mile Pace or through hiker. Is there, is there things that like have adapted or changed for you over time? If you've become I mean you've always been an athlete but I feel like you're you're pushing your own levels right of athleticism and and health and things like from from the outside. So I'm curious what Or if there has been changes to how you look at a Days nutrition, even if you are through hiking or or, you know, doing roughly 20 miles a day.
[00:42:30] Jeff: Yeah, it's come a long ways from actually starting to care about it. I mean, in 2019 I did the Long Trail record with three packs. So 24 frozen burritos and I just ate those faces. So it's it has come a long, long ways. And really you already hit the nail on the head. The protein is one of the biggest things even in the last two months, I've done, 200 mile races, and in the middle of each of them, I've had actually a protein shake because protein is that kind of essential thing that's lacking from for most In anything that you're doing, whether it's through hike or run or something, it's that thing, that it provides that depth of your nutrition in that longer burning fuel source. So that's really just like you already mentioned. It's the number one thing to try to get. It's good and fine after an activity but before enduring it has the biggest benefits. So that's a huge thing that I focus on. So, if I'm going out for a long day or whatever it may be, it's yes. Starting in the morning and I probably have We're throwing this meal in their head. Probably have it for breakfast or lunch because that that it may feel better to eat it. And then relax at the end of the day, but you're gonna get the most benefit from that that protein and all those nutrients from in the middle or before you start your day. And then I, now I've really transitioned a lot more away from the maybe one big meal a day and then a lot more snacks. So the goal is always to eat something every hour, maybe you're not feeling that hungry, even a couple bites of something. You just never want to have that hour-long of depleted status, because that's when that low comes later. So it's, it's just keeping that Cal drip going. And then, if you can get in a little bit of protein, that's kind of it in a nutshell and really, just efficiency. Other than that, is really what I've harped on, kind of my whole career, doing this type of stuff is you want to have a bee in your pocket or reachable. Or if you're taking a break, you don't want to have to be waiting on something else when you're ready to go and you're still waiting on Water to boil or whatever. You just you want to be ready to to move. While the movement's. Good.
[00:44:42] Tayson: Yeah,
[00:44:43] Luke: I have a question about that. 20 mile day. What do you do with the other 21 hours? I mean,
[00:44:55] Jeff: I just eat, you know.
[00:44:56] Luke: Yeah just eat ReadyWise meals, huh?
[00:45:01] Jeff: So, drink coffee for sure.
[00:45:02] Tayson: So, I think I've always looked at protein like a post-workout recovery thing, right? Like that's like the big thing, right? You, you go to the gym and then you have your, your workout shake after, right? Or or, and I think I've kind of thought the same way like getting one of these meals at the end of a long day, helps you to recover for the next day, like, muscular. So why are you pushing a little bit more of like the before enduring? What's the benefits of that? Is it a keeps you from crashing? Does it keep your muscles from breaking down more or
[00:45:35] Jeff: Yeah, it's it's just getting ahead of it as your muscles are breaking down. You already have the protein. I mean going towards the muscles and especially later in something if you're having you know, Some protein or handful of nuts or whatever, like a couple hours before you have that two hours of it's already working on your body and then hitting it through that exercise. it's good after, but I think, in the morning or that way to start with that correct level of protein or flowing through your body already. Really just AIDS in that. I think there's no problem in having protein after I just think you're realizing less of those benefits during the activity in the grand scheme of things, it might equal the same. But if you have that protein halfway through a long day, then that second half of the day is going to feel more like the first half rather than being a slog to the end.
[00:46:29] Tayson: Okay, besides a full on meal, what some of your favorite ways to to speak protein into the quick and efficient?
[00:46:39] Jeff: and, Nuts are super good. Yeah, I think I like gas station little 99 cent. Peanut packets that are like hot ones here I'm a sucker for those is there just like easy pocket? So that's a good way. And then just having done a lot of ultramarathons and Luke actually got me a little portable blender thing for my birthday. You can just whip up a protein, shake in the middle of the loop or something out there. So I think liquid calories is a big thing that a lot of the sports world is moving towards to. So sort of that balance of You know, letting your gut take a little bit of a break from having to consume 5,000 calories of solid food, you can get 1,000 to 2,000 of that just by drinking things. So, that's a pretty good little life hack to to meet the demands of the long day.
[00:47:37] Luke: Yeah I think yeah. What's your what's your personal record for 100 miles?
[00:47:41] Jeff: I did one a month ago in 17 hours, so all right.
[00:47:47] Tayson: Incredible grass.
[00:47:48] Jeff: Thanks.
[00:47:50] Tayson: No I think I think that's actually something I want to experiment with this year as far as the liquid calories go and this is kind of getting into more of the running world. But you have those Those powders what not that are just tons of sugars and carbs, right? Like 400, you know, calories of sugars, and one makes or whatever and just like almost zero protein and I can start, I can definitely start to feel that lack of it and I feel like it does Start to throw me off versus. When I was pacing for that, Moab race. It was a lower slower exertion level. And so, like when you go into those eight stations, like I need a hamburger and I, I felt so much better. Okay, you know. So I I was thinking about that a little bit because I know there's some of those mixes out there as far as liquid. Calories that are starting to make some proteins in. So that's something. I'm definitely wanting to experience an experiment with this year. So, no, I think that's, I think that's really, really helpful for sure. You know, get the protein in throughout the day. And in reality, I imagine what this really boils down to is keeping a pretty balanced approach throughout the entire day to because it can be much easier to just get in carbs or to just get in, you know, some of these other things. So, keeping that balance throughout the day, obviously taste dividends and end results and feeling good throughout the day. So awesome. Yeah.
[00:49:12] Jeff: And we need to work on. Yeah. And I mean, I would zoom out even more and say that like it's hard to I don't love all the things out there in a lot of them are heavy on the car but if it's lower on the sugar side that the carbs can be. Okay, so if you're supplementing it with something like a bag of nuts or something like that, so you're getting that balanced approach. It's the sugar that more so leads to those crashes rather than the more simple. Carbs. So I think that the low sugar approach, whatever your diet may be. I think it's hard to find someone touting a high sugar diet other than maybe through hikers.
[Editor’s note: Sugars are simple carbohydrates, so they are not a separate category from “simple carbs.” Blood-glucose response and perceived energy changes depend on the carbohydrate, amount, meal context, and individual; this preserved comparison should not be read as universal nutrition guidance.]
[00:49:49] Luke: Yeah other than fkt guys that are
[00:49:55] Tayson: Yeah, are you able to eat things like nuts or proteins on more of a Sprint race? Where it's you know, 50 to 100 miles like can you still stomach those pretty well? I mean, it sounds like you have an iron gut if you can eat nothing but Frozen.
[00:50:11] Jeff: I'm pretty good at puking a lot, but he's in rally pretty good. Yeah, I mean in that sense it's really you just break it in halves. Like if you can be good for the first half and get a good level then you know if you're pushing this hard as you can the second half is going to be a lot harder. So you're just inevitably trying to push your body as far as it can go before it starts breaking down and once you get to that point you're just holding on and eating like one ship at a time or one peanut at a time or something. So it's it's a totally different nutritional approach rather than a multi-month or multi-day. Outing where the goal there is to feel good and enjoy the experience. When it's 100 miles and trying to see how fast you can go. You're not looking and expecting to feel good the entire time.
[Editor’s note: Jeff’s timing, intake, protein, liquid-calorie, and race examples are a historical personal account from an elite endurance athlete, not a protocol for general backpacking or racing. Nutrition needs and gastrointestinal tolerance vary.]
[00:50:58] Tayson: Yeah, for sure for sure. Well we've covered a lot, guys. I feel like I've asked most the questions that I was planning to ask, but I know you guys have. A ton of
[00:51:11] Luke: questions for you.
[00:51:12] Tayson: Okay, yeah.
[00:51:14] Luke: Fuck, beard care. Huh. It always looks so good, so good.
[00:51:22] Jeff: Yeah, um no oil on my life on trail, not so good all the time. Now if that's, you know, Viking style and braided Um, you got a bit of a sportsman. So if I'm archery hunting, I will braid it. Otherwise I'll throw it into, just like a, just a pony essentially. Just get it out of my way. But
[00:51:43] Luke: here, we gotta get you at one of the total archery challenges. They're cool. Really cool events.
