[00:00:00] Tayson: Everybody. Welcome to the Live Ultralight Podcast, powered by Outdoor Vitals. Today, we are going to be breaking down a recent hike that Brigham and I did where he went down to the Grand, Canyon and did rim to rim to rim. So that was the south rim starting on the south rim because the North Rim is still closed for Access. So we hiked from the south all the way to the north rim, turn around and come back. We did that with the big group of guys and it's just a really enjoyable time in the canyon. So that's the plan today. So Brigham, how are you doing?
[00:00:29] Brigham: doing well?
[00:00:31] Tayson: As per usual, actually spring. Yeah. Finally warming up which I'm not complaining about at all. Um yeah, so let's let's just talk about this story. It was it was a heck of a day we have I guess, historically we did this same route, or close to it, two years earlier, when we fast packed it, we learned a lot. It was really good and it was really fun to come back and revisit this hike in a different, you know, on a different style of trip. So that one we we covered 38 miles, we went from the South Rim to the North Rim back to the bottom which is a Phantom Ranch and we slept was a 38 mile first day and then followed by about a 10-mile second day to hike out of the canyon on Bright Angel. Bright Angel Trail. So bright, angel! Trails closed this time. So we just went down South Kaibab up north Kaibab and back up South Kaibab. So a little bit different, but we have done it, Brigham, you've been in the canyon, a handful of times. Specifically more on the south side and you have done rim to rim. In fact, you went a month ago and did rim to rim to rim before this effort. So we've yeah, we've been there a few times and if you get nothing else out of this podcast, it's it's probably that we actually really enjoy this Trail and we'll probably go back. Again, that is it's just an epic iconic Trail. I feel like, yeah, this definitely Funny because I feel that way at the end of every single time is just like this is, this is one. I want to just keep doing Kind of a good tradition. Yeah, there's something about it. That's definitely worth doing over and over and and going back to it and It's different. It's different to go down into the canyon versus stay on the rim, you know, like people drive there all the time. I mean, just when I was leaving the line to get into the national park was, was huge. All right. So, there's I mean, it sees tons of people but most people stay right on top or maybe hike like a half mile down or something from the top but that, that particular Park. I mean there's so many different views and Vantage points as you get all the way down into the canyon. So just a phenomenal Phenomenal trip. So this particular trip was a little bit different. We were, we were meeting up with some buddies. That would that do a, an annual hike. So this basically 20 guys, they'll get together doing annual hike and they usually try to try to get to 100 Mi on their hikes as well. But this, so the plan with this one was actually to do an R3, right rim to rim to rim and then turn around and do it again with maybe a couple hours of sleep or something like that. And just try to Blitz it and it's definitely one. I was interesting because these guys have all hiked before together, and this is mine and Brigham’s first time meeting them and or at least meeting most of them, and, and Hiking with them. And it was, it was, it was fun fun to get to know these guys. And they're pretty like very Mission focused, like they were very set on this plan of doing an R6 and just just a lot of athletes. A lot of guys have spent a lot of time in the mountains and they definitely feed off of each other a little bit. There's definitely some you know, energy And kind of pushing each other. I felt like there was happening and so Yeah, so we got invited on this, we show up. I have an ultramarathon this like in two days and this was just last weekend so I had previously Decided to not do the R6 and just do the R3. But everyone else was still planning on doing the R6 and so we we got there Thursday night. Met everyone. And with the plan was to sleep at a campground there, that was about three miles from the South Kaibab trailhead And so would sleep there, get up and be hiking by about 4:00 4 a.m. from the from the camp. A lot of people when they do the the room to room to room, they'll they'll they'll take the shuttle to the trailhead but With the mileage. We were trying. It was gonna work out well to start the hike from Camp, to get six extra miles to try to hit that that 100. So and I don't know that the shuttle runs it for him. Yeah, I don't think it does either. So I think we were up before it and then, we were honestly, anticipating probably getting there after the shuttle was closed down as well. So, um, Yeah, anything else I missed on? Just kind of setting the stage of what this was. Obviously, we can we can talk about
[00:05:05] Brigham: the trail details as well. Yeah, I mean the You mentioned that this group, they do it every year. they try to hit, you know, somewhere around 100 miles, but I think the other goal that this group tries to accomplish his Is to do a hike that's like, really, really hard. Like that's That's definitely type 2 and eventually type three fund where you're pretty completely beaten down by the end, you know. And so they they actually had talked to us about the route before, you know, wondering, like Hey we're thinking about doing this for our annual hike. We know you guys have done it. Like what are your thoughts? And we basically kind of just told them like well one is like it's a good long day and that's you know it's a 48 to 50 mile hike but knowing what you guys are kind of looking for probably isn't going to be like that. Terrible challenge that you're looking for. So you probably would want to do it twice. so that was kind of like what they were looking for is to You know, a pretty good amount of pain I would say.
[00:06:11] Tayson: Yeah, they kind of seek that out. This is something that they all do. It seems like to keep themselves in shape, you know. So like, because when you set a big goal like this, obviously, you know, you have this, like, brutal hike coming up every spring. It definitely pushes you, right. Gets you off the couch gets you out logging miles or in the gym or whatever it is. And so they do it a little bit to, to keep themselves in shape in the off-season per se. And then also yeah, to just kind of push their limits, find their limits. Do it collectively. Historically, some of the hikes they've done of have been way more, you know even like route-finding and stuff so they were off Trail stuff. Yeah. Time's off Trail stuff and like Alaska and Montana or Idaho and so this one, they're like oh there's a trail like you know it's gonna be that much easier which I mean when you don't have to way-find that's a big mental ask and it gets tough when you're going through the night and because usually they were, you know, sleeping very little on some of these and so there wasn't aspect of that. That being said, there's the Grand Canyon is brutal. It's it's the Grand Canyon for a reason right. And the biggest Factor. The two biggest factors I'd say that people often Overlook in the Grand. Canyon is, is one It is graded Trail like I mean like it's it's Trail, right? It's not your off Trail, but the trail itself at times is pretty rough, you know, Bright Angel, Trail pretty, dang good. Very well graded. But you go like South Kaibab, you've got these logs that go across the trail, then you have mules that come in up and down the trail and they dig these big holes in the trail. It's very, very steep. And so you've got this mixture of like it is Trail but like you're constantly stretching your foot to hit this log jumping onto this rock stepping in a hole lifting your foot up and over like even on the downhill you're like lifting your foot up and over stuff. Yeah and it's a weird thing to experience because you're going down steep stuff but you're still lifting your foot up. Yeah
[00:08:08] Brigham: like everyone that I think everybody that I was within ear distance to hear talk throughout any time during the hike. Like that was one thing that Coming up was like they're it's not even possible to get in a Cadence or a rhythm with your with your feet. So it's like it's a trail but it's like the most inhospitable trail or like just the most uneven Trail, that's it's technically a trail but I mean you might as well be off Trail in terms of like the Footwork. And the the leg work that it creates like, that's it's almost like walking just through miles of Deadfall. You know, if like, every log was about a foot off the ground and you're, but they're all randomly spaced, you know, and you just, you're just, you're just stepping over, and
[00:09:02] Tayson: Pretty good comparison because I was just about to say like at times, I would have rather just been off Trail like because there are definitely areas of mountains or whatever. That it would just have been easier to not be on a trail at all. Yeah, versus the trail. That is there, right? So yeah, like like, very short Deadfall, you know. Like not like like not like hurtling Deadfall. But you know if you're talking about 12 to 16 inch Deadfall like on the trail. That's kind of what it feels like at times, right? And then you're going down, so it lures you into this and you're going down a lot of steep Trail. So largely into this feeling of going faster or like, hey, like if I just start jumping from here to here to here, it's easier and it is easier, but it like like cardio wise or maybe even mentally wise. The thing is we kind of did that the first time we did it with fast packing. So I had more weight on our backs. By the time I got to the bottom, our legs were not up for much more hiking that day and we had a whole lot of hiking like it really just blew through our legs, blew through our quads and calves, especially just pointing your toe and landing on your toe. And so it's a brutal Trail. So that's the first thing I would say about the Grand Canyon and even going up the north side, you know, the trail that they've built is amazing, but it has massive steps at times and and just at the same Cadence issue, essentially, so the other part of the Grand Canyon, I think people often Overlook is. Like on a day, there's a lot of people that'll climb. Let's say, 4,000 feet of vertical or 5,000 feet of vertical. I mean, when I was out on the Appalachian Trail, you know, you're just climbing up and down Hills the whole day, right? And, and You get a lot of vertical by the end of the day, maybe even up to 4,000 feet in the day. But it's all like a 500 foot, climb a 500 foot descend 500 foot climb 500 foot descent. What is extremely difficult about the Grand Canyon is it becomes exponentially more of an ask on the body to go 5,000 feet of straight climbing versus like 1000 feet up 1000 feet down or 2000 feet up 2000 feet down. So it I don't know if we have really any other places know or I've ever been where you just go, 5,000 feet, straight up in one push I've had like 3500 foot climbs, maybe we've hit four at times. Those are rare super rare, but the Grand Canyon. It's a full five thousand feet on both ends of it of climbing and so when you do an R3 you do you drop down the 5000 feet. Then you get all the way over the other. End you climb in the 5000 feet in one shot. Turn around, come down and then you're doing that again. So, on the day on the whole day, you're getting about 12,500 feet of climbing and descending, but it's exponentially. More hard to have chunks of 5,000 versus a couple thousand back down. It just it lends you to like, oh you do the first one or 2000 feet really well. And then you hit a calorie wall or you start cramping up because you weren't hydrating well enough or it's very hard to like keep Pace the whole climb up if you're not very aware of that. So so those are the two things. I just wanted to point out about the trail and then obviously Brigham, you noted this. But on the day we were looking like we were going to do about 49 to 50 miles to do the R3. The first time, right? So yeah, other than that, we were expecting some interesting weather. Yeah, we timed it, perfect. Always basically. It was looking like it's going to rain on us at about nine or 10 a.m. and then and then that we're gonna have some higher winds. Now, like, looking, I was looking at like the weather in the south rim, Phantom Ranch North Rim. And I didn't like looking to as much of a detailed description, but I was just seeing like 20 to 23, mile an hour winds Not necessarily thinking about more of like gusting winds, right? We'll get, we'll get to that. So we know we're gonna have wind. We knew we were potentially have a little bit of water. And it was, it was pretty cold. Starting off the trail. It was 40 degrees, you know, according to the weather app at the campsite which wasn't bad. But then it was supposed to dip the temperature supposed to dip throughout the day being like, the high in Phantom Ranch. If we were, if we had been a Phantom Ranch in the very middle of the day, I think we would have touched about 60 degrees. But the high on the north rim, according to the weather app was 34 degrees. So you get a massive disparity of of temperatures doing it, especially in the spring right North Rim. Still a snow on it, that's why it's not open, but you're starting on the south rim Phantom Ranch so much lower than you that it's, it's quite hot. So, it's just this big, big temperature, swings and we, we had timed it, where we were going to get some additional whether to make sense to just the temperature settings.
[00:13:51] Brigham: Yeah, yeah. It was just, it's just amazing because if you look at like the weather, Forecast read out you know like the four days leading up to when we were going to start our hike. We're just beautiful. You know? Probably like. 60s at The Rim, you know, getting down to Upper 70s down at the bottom and then the two days, maybe two and a half, three days that we were going to be there. It was 20 degrees colder. It was like just this little and then immediately like the day after we left, it was back up into the 60s and 70s, and sunny and no wind no snow.
[00:14:29] Tayson: It was unique. Yeah,
[00:14:30] Brigham: great timing.
[00:14:34] Tayson: So there's a few things that we'll touch on at the end of the podcast too. Before we dive into the story, some things that we're carrying will be will be some of the those and there's a few other like takeaways that will share about just like, maybe like some advice if you ever were looking to do this hike. But right now let's just jump into the story so we we get there. Basically, we're meeting, you know, about 1920 new faces, and trying to get to know people and I'll talk a little bit about the hike and then we go to bed. fairly early nine before 10 and then we, you know, alarm goes off at about 3:30 a.m. and we start Gathering up the group of of guys, and we Ended up breaking camp at about 4:15. So take off that a camp and we were hoping it. We were hiking. We were running or anything like that and most guys weren't planning on doing any running at least to my knowledge. Most of them had like bigger packs on and stuff with just nothing in them but like they're typical hiking backpacks. This is a big group of Sportsmen so like hunting backpacks and stuff as well. And We we launched out of Camp doing 16 minute. Miles hiking base. We were cruising it. Nearly a Four mile, an hour Pace, just going along the flat. Flatter top to. Buckeye, Bob Trail. And got to the South Kaibab Trail and it. We had some wind for sure. Like as soon as you get up on there I think it's I think the Grand Canyon Even there like twice, right? But it's always windy. So we're getting some wind. We start dropping into the canyon and I don't know, he probably made it a mile, two miles down the trail before, you could kind of turn your headlamp off. It had gotten light enough fast enough that you could start to see start, pull out the camera a little bit and get some of those beautiful views of that. South Kaibab offers I will say that is the one big benefit. I would say of South. Kaibab Trail is. Yeah, even over Bright Angel is you're kind of going down. More of a Ridgeline. And so, you're getting expansive views off of two different sides. You can really see a lot, a lot of the canyon. And if you're there, you know, for something like sunrise or Sunset, it's it's a phenomenal, phenomenal site, beautiful beautiful view. Yeah, kind of, like you mentioned the group started to thin out and, you know, people are kind of doing, you know, handling, the trail itself at different levels, you know, with the drops and awkwardness of the trail and so on and so forth. And so the group started to thin out, I mean almost immediately and that was kind of the plan from the beginning, as we wouldn't be staying as a group of 20. It's just too big too big of a group everyone's on two too much of a different pace, different Fitness levels, different desires of how quick they want to do things or not want to do things different paces. so started to thin out a little bit, but me and Brigham. We're trying to be, I don't know, I was Brigham was planning on doing the R6 right. But either way, we had told a lot of people We don't advise running down. And we got about halfway down and pretty soon. Some people start running it.
[00:17:47] Brigham: I didn't even see them know. Oh yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:52] Tayson: Dan and those guys and there's probably seven plus guys that started to break into some slight running on the downhill and I kind of wanted to just be a little bit more up at the front but I very consciously was like nope I've done that, I will not do it again so I just power hike down. And it went smooth really pretty got to the bottom and I can honestly say I fell a million times better than the first time I had done this Trail. Obviously had a little bit less weight in my backpack with not having to carry like a tent and a sleeping bag and a pad and a little more food but Yeah, the lack of running I immediately was like such a wise choice but yeah I mean how did the hike down from the top? Go for you.
[00:18:40] Brigham: It's good. Yeah, it was I I don't mind the kind of the cold start and because it's nice to just Say did not be hot, you know, hiking and in the heat. So but yeah, I was definitely You know, and and I you mentioned been there several times. So kind of have the experience to know, like, I'm not gonna try to not gonna try to keep up a pace and and and go quickly down down the canyon. So yeah, it was good. I had to stop and use the one of the, the first bathroom, which is only like two miles down and It makes sense not saying guys were running and yeah got one because people were really trying to go fast and I wasn't trying to go fast but I stopped to use the bathroom but and by the time I got out like I couldn't even see anybody. So I eventually I mean it's took probably. A couple miles before. you know, the next people in front of me, stopped to either get water or use a bathroom and so you know, eventually kind of caught up with people that yeah. by the time got The bottom. Yeah, I was I was feeling good and again, I think it's I had the advantage of having done it several times and kind of knowing what I need to do to To get to the bottom. Feeling good. so, it was definitely uneventful and So, I felt, yeah, I felt solid down towards the bottom. The one thing. It's interesting the river. You know, how it's just like that murky Brown. Oh, it was way Brown. It's ah, I haven't seen it at night. A nice blue for a while like it's it's really cool when it's kind of this greenish blue. but the last couple times I've been down, it's, it's been that murky Brown, so It's like,
[00:20:42] Tayson: how do you think is the biggest part of that?
[00:20:46] Brigham: I'm trying to figure it out because I've been down there in April. Malt a couple times. May couple times I went down in March. I specifically looked at the river when I was crossing
[00:20:58] Tayson: a driving home like by Lee's Ferry. Yeah look nice and blue. Oh yeah, I remember that it's turned up,
[00:21:04] Brigham: you know, from yeah.
[00:21:06] Tayson: From either between there with Rapids, or maybe it is like Rain or yeah, I'm sure it has a lot to do with just the, the cubic feet of water at
[00:21:16] Brigham: the time. Yeah. Oh, you know, one thing I I noticed really quickly probably about Three fourths of the way down. You know, I said I was feeling good. I was however, like, and this was a bad Omen that, like four miles into it, that that's when I started, nosing, my feet were like rubbing really bad on my heels. I had made a last minute shoe change. Because like the week prior had done, a couple highs and my shoes were kind of putting a lot of pressure on the outside, kind of that knuckle of the ankle, that kind of ball. And like it was putting a lot of pressure and swelling it and so I thought well 100 miles, you know the Grand Canyon I don't want to do that. So I have a couple other pairs of shoes that I hike or run with frequently, so I thought well, I better maybe I'll take those. Both pairs. And then kind of flip a coin as to which one I start the hike with, and I can always Change shoes, when I get back, you know, from the first round. But yeah, the shoes I chose. Were there a pretty precise fit and they were really like, my heels started getting ton of pressure. And so I could just start to feel like the hot spots Besides from that. Yeah, wasn't wasn't feeling. They were too bad at all these. Yeah, I was running in Saucony. Peregrines or hiking and Saucony Peregrines. On the way down. Yeah,
[00:22:52] Tayson: I personally haven't tried those but that's that's never fun. That's actually When you're like under 10 miles into potentially 100 miles at first.
[00:23:01] Brigham: Yeah.
[00:23:04] Tayson: So, yeah, we get to the bottom. I thought, like I didn't, I didn't know what to expect with this group, you know, talking about like, like me and you started the hike together and you feel lost to use the restroom and like I didn't see you. And I was like, oh, we'll see him at the bottom, you know, type of thing. And that like it's never saw you because everyone was was moving quickly. It was very apparent that this that the group was Was minimizing any kind of stopping time? They were trying to basically hike or hike as fast as they could, you know? And I don't, I don't know. I just I'm curious I don't know what if you have a thought on this but like I couldn't tell if they were hiking as fast as they could. just to I don't know like make the hike harder or if it was their hiking fast because they want, they knew they had to do it twice and there's like a bit of a timeline on it or if they're just hiking fast because like egos
[00:24:00] Brigham: well yeah, yeah and I couldn't I couldn't get it, you know get a gauge on it either because it's like I think it could have been any Any of those because like a lot of them had never even been here before or been to the Grand Canyon before. And so you know, just thinking back to some of the times like when we did the rim room to room, you know, a couple years back as a company. There were guys that not been there before and it's really easy. To feel like, oh yeah, I can really speed up, you know, so there's like maybe that element. And then there is the elements of like Like you said, maybe they were kind of anticipating. Well, like, I gotta do this twice in over the next 48 hours or whatever. And so, I better hurry and I also, I do think, you know, having gone with that group and kind of looking back on. I first sure there's the element of like the group. mentality, that kind of like the group, Itself, you know, whether it's by Design or not you know there's a lot of driven guys you know? And and and so like I think there's Just a lot of that psychological Dynamic of like people. They don't want to look like they're slow, so they're just gonna keep bass and then some people like, you know, they don't like feeling like somebody's behind them so that they always feel like they have to push forward and It's probably just combination of everything. Um, but they were yeah there was definitely a
[00:25:33] Tayson: push for Speed. Yeah. More more to come on that as the day progressed, but I guess my biggest surprise is just like yeah, like I you peeled off behind and I I didn't see it. Like we filled up water at Phantom Ranch which is basically at the bottom pretty close to the Colorado River there and it's kind of the bigger city. So down in the bottom of the Grand Canyon, you have this little city, like there's cabins down there, there's a general store, and there's a bunch of camping spots. So definitely like the biggest camping area I would say in the Grand Canyon and the most facilities right? And so it's a great place to typically stop grab water and you know and move on and then if you're there in the middle of the day you can you can go into the little general store and hey, apparently, they take credit cards. Now, an Apple pay and all sorts of things. Oh, really. So, you know. Yeah, I used to be. You have to bring cash. Yeah, that's what I thought. Um, so be aware that you may, you know, maybe we'll just leave my wallet so
[00:26:27] Brigham: crazy work.
[00:26:28] Tayson: Yeah. I had specifically thrown 20 bucks in my pack cash because I was like, oh might be nice but yeah, even though I was there and I could have it didn't end up working out for me to stop slowed, out of all the kids, got Phantom Ranch down there, that's again where we had stayed the previous time, we done this, and Yes. So like I thought I just see you with Phantom Ranch and You know, just wasn't the case. Like people were moving so quick and people were, I was really impressed because what happens typically in a big group setting is You everyone like you do a break, you do a stop and everyone. Takes a little bit more time and it's really slow to get back moving again. Whereas these people were dialed, I was like, I came in with basically my ultra running mentality of like a pit stop, which is like, I have my Ziploc bags, I mixed my drink super fast to fill them up, throw him back in my pack. I repack the front of my pack where I've got my calories and the fast pack and I'm gone. And I somehow it usually takes longer than I feel like it should but maybe, 15 minutes stops. Right? So we're so, but I was like, slow for these guys like 15 minute stops. They were like they were ready to go. Which always Surprised me. But I was definitely like, mixing a bunch of drinks, whereas they were just like, maybe filling water or things.
[00:27:47] Brigham: Yeah,
[00:27:48] Tayson: but yeah. How to super quick pit stop there. And then we're we're cruising up. So from there, from Phantom Ranch essentially move up to, we'll just go to Manzanita. Out of, I don't know eight to ten mile push from Phantom Ranch to Manzanita and you are climbing the whole time but it's it's more of a gradual climb right. And so um coming out of their my plan the whole time was don't run down South Kaibab. You want to push like run or push in the flat bottom section. And then obviously your hiking up and then on the way back, it's like, well, again that section if you want to move fast, that's the section to move fast in to get back down to Phantom Ranch. So I left that section, those Runners had already like like that. Run down south came out, they were gone. I didn't even see him at the stop either and something around. These are some guys that are out there, you know, let me I'll push and just try to to catch up a little bit to him. And so, I start jogging and then I jogging into this group. and, It was dude. Oh, I was gonna say this. It was so I had a lot of great experience. A lot of these guys were so focused, I don't think they even looked at the canyon I was filming and enjoying a lot of stuff. It was a massive fish in that smaller Creeks that came from Manzanita.
[00:28:59] Brigham: I know I've always wondered about that and kind of look because it's a beautiful Creek. It's the I think it's bright, angel, Creek, but another guy that I Kind of passed up on the way back down Jared. He's like he showed me. He's like, dude, there's a bunch of trout in there. I'm like what? You know and he showed me. I mean he took he filmed it and it was cool to see that there's, there's Robin in there.
[00:29:22] Tayson: I didn't see, I didn't look super close, but this guy that I was with, I think it was Jared. He was saying that they were some kind of sucker fish. I wasn't weird looking at. They were like 10 and a little cluster and yeah, I believe that. Um, but he's like, but I don't know what kind they are and I need to look it up and, but it's pretty interesting. I hadn't seen this fish before in there and So, yeah, we're kind of pushing because it's really cool. As you leave, Phantom Ranch, you get into this, like Box, Canyon kind of thing. Where it's just, it's you I wouldn't call it a Slot Canyon because it's not that narrow. But it's just got these big tall walls of very side.
[00:29:55] Brigham: Yeah, very high wall and windy. Like it's really windy like big drawn curve. So like you can't
[00:30:02] Tayson: See, if you look forward, you just see like a wall, mmm. It's pretty cool. And it's, and I always think of everything in the Grand Canyon is going to be like, Red Rock, but this is like Black Rock, right? It's like dark Rock. And so it's a really, really cool section. And so, I start pushing I was talking to this guy named Jared and I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna jog a little, and try to just catch up to, to Blend, he's like I'll go with you. So he started jogging with me. Catch up to this group and we Feel like we were in pushing we were not pushing her. Like, this is like, very slow pace job. Right? You know? 13, 14 minute type miles, right? Just And we start catching up this group and I see him up ahead of us and they're kind of jogging too, but two of them are jogging and one is walking and I'm like, I'm like, looking at this and then like, kind of put my head down, look around keep jogging for a minute. Look back up, two of them are jogging. One is walking and I'm like what is going on? Like it was the strangest thing. So finally, we catch up to him. And I'm like, so we're kind of matching their pace. And I'm having to kind of Shuffle and Jog. And this guy in front of me is just walking. And I'm like What how are you doing this? Right, so I start like, I started trying to like copy his walk, just To see if it was even like possible for me to do. This guy had the fastest most dialed in walk I've ever seen. He was walking like 14 to 13 minute miles, and he was making it look like he was just strolling, right?
[00:31:26] Brigham: He wasn't trying that hard.
[00:31:27] Tayson: Yeah, I didn't look like, yes, it wasn't. It was. I mean, he just got this and he wasn't taller than me. Didn't have like, massively long legs. But he just, he just opened up the big long stride and how does polls and his pumping on his poles and it was just, I don't know. It was for some I pointed it out to him and just laugh. Like I just like I don't know how you just like oh yeah, I like dialed in this walk, man but He was like, very aware that he had this super power, pretty cool because we're all along, you know? And I was like, man, I wonder if that like Almost feel like sometimes over striding like that, like hurts my knees more than just do it like a little Shuffle and and doing like a higher Cadence. But man it was it was I mean I I just had to call that out. It was very impressive. currently, I was like, I mean, I've ever runs from all see something where there's like, Walking races. You know like this guy he could answer one of those things you had a dial but so yeah meet up with this group and and I just kind of stuck together. So we We yeah, we're pushing probably. I would say, we at we're average in a little under, like 15 minute miles, and just pushing. But I was, I didn't realize that that is a climb. It is a climb from Phantom to Manzanita, it's not like it's it's like flat on the bottom of the canyon. I want to say you climb almost 2000 feet. I think. Yeah, I think the most gradual part is that
[00:32:58] Brigham: narrow windy, candy or Canyon but I think once it opens up, I think it it is a bit, deceiving the how much incline there is because there's a few like Like, I don't know. three or four hundred yards long like kind of just no switch back just climbs? Yeah, that's a good. It's good. Climb that stretch. Yeah.
[00:33:21] Tayson: Really pretty though. We are kind of expecting. I was, I kept looking up being like Oh I wonder if we're gonna get the rain clouds coming in because it was about nine coming up on right now 9:00 and You know, in that Canyon at least, especially facing that direction or not, you couldn't see anything. It was just blue skies. It was nice. And what it was, what is going on. Like, this is supposed to be crazy, whether, you know, and whatnot. But now just cruised up the bottom Really pretty Trail. Just talking getting to know those guys, you know, they were from all over Montana Colorado, Oregon. So just meeting a lot of people swapping stories and moving up the canyon And yeah, just just went that way until we got to Manzanita, but how was your hike I guess from from Phantom and onward.
[00:34:06] Brigham: Yeah, I had Like I said, I caught up to a group again. It's it's not the whole group is just there's just kind of like group spread out, right? So there's probably four other guys besides me about a mile or two from the bottom. So then we got to the bottom of watered up. and, we got held up a little bit because one of the guys that kind of organized, it got thoroughly interrogated by a ranger who had who had she like admittedly said, I don't ever come down into the canyon and I'm new, but I came down last night just so I could be here to check your permit and she was like, very thoroughly, like, Asking all the questions and then she actually ended up forgetting to actually handle his permit and look at it, and then she came back while we were filling up water.
[00:35:02] Tayson: She's like, I forgot to check your left.
[00:35:05] Brigham: Whoa, yeah, she like dismissed us, you know? So she was waiting for us at the bridge. Right?
[00:35:10] Tayson: Right. Because she, when I went by, she's like, are you Steve? Are you Steve this? It was funny. I mean, that was
[00:35:16] Brigham: definitely a delay, but it was it was interesting and
[00:35:19] Tayson: that makes more sense to me, why I didn't see you guys the Phantom Ranch because I didn't feel like you were much behind us. Yeah,
[00:35:24] Brigham: yeah. So she was you know, she did this whole interrogation at the bridge and then dismissed us. We walk over to that first water station, we're all watering up and kind of talking about it and Came back, so I forgot to check your permit even though I was asking you all these questions. He's like, I am new and I never do this and I never come down here. This one guy. I forget who it was. He goes so Are you like a gs7? Which is like the government. It's like a government hierarchy or pay scale. Yes. I'm just technically like a pay scale but like gs7 is two notches. Above the lowest government scale which is like I was like oh is that gonna she kind of like defended catch that and the offended? She's like, Yes, I am a gs7 because I mean, the GS scale goes up to 15, and then there's other scales above that. So, it was like, it was, it was pretty. I tried to, I had to, like, look away and try to not laugh, but anyway, we got it second. He we got the group. He was all just kind of like hanging out to just watch all of this. It was pretty funny. Anyway, we got this message again and then but I did get the hike with that, that group.
[00:36:45] Tayson: Just before we move on from that, I think the, the comedy, the other part of the comedy that is like, Like the permit to go down in there with a bigger group, which by the way, like we were so separated. We were, never one time with more than like five people hiking together. Oh yeah, never right. and so, I think the permit they said was like well under 100 dollars or something, it's really just like a notification of, hey we have a bigger group coming satellite, send someone down there on the clock hike all the way down there. Spend the night. Check a permit and hiked all the way back. Like, like, they lost money. You know what I mean? Like, it costs way more money to pay a gs7 to
[00:37:22] Brigham: do. I don't even think I didn't. We she didn't say, I don't think she hiked. I think she wrote a mule she was spic and span clean. I mean, she's like, I work at a desk. She said that she's like, I'm an admin person, I work at a desk, I mean, and it showed, but it was pretty fun. But yea, total waste of Money and time. But yeah, it was all it was pretty funny.
[00:37:49] Tayson: Yeah, that last thing I remember seeing is just, there's a lot of people that start moving out of those camps, early in the morning. I don't know if you thought the same thing, but A lot of big backpacks. Oh,
[00:38:01] Brigham: a lot of big backpacks and that is, I guess that is a popular thing to do is to just Go to the bright angel Campground, which is right outside. Phantom Ranch and then hike out, I think maybe people might do like it as a two nighter and do like little day trips up to parts of the canyon but there's definitely outgoing traffic and typically, I think a lot of the outgoing traffic goes up the bright angel Trail but again, it was closed. So now yeah, there was a lot of, you know, traffic coming up but there were some really large large packs on people you know, climbing up out of there so I always I always loved it because I'm always like going through
[00:38:44] Tayson: so cheery. Okay, good morning. And You don't get the same greeting, back most know. I don't, they're grinding up this hill. I mean, and they're only like a mile in of, like, a five. Six
[00:38:55] Brigham: mile climb. It's like this is gonna be all day and there. I mean they're carrying like A good 80 leaders of. Packing only three and a half three, three foot tall packs. You know that even if you Very conservative math. They're like 50 plus pounds, you know,
[00:39:14] Tayson: we don't advise that but anyway it was oh you passed.
[00:39:18] Brigham: Yeah, yeah. We got released by the ranger again and but so I did get to hike for Well, probably five six miles with, with a group, which was which was great. It was, you know, we were making great time and So, let's see.
[00:39:34] Tayson: Phantom Ranch. You were hiking with them, still?
[00:39:36] Brigham: Yeah. All the way to about. Well, yeah, I hiked with the group all the way to Manzanita. Now, a couple people that peeled off to relieve themselves or whatever, but I rolled into Manzanita, I think around there with at least a couple people, but most of the group had either. Slowed down or stopped to relieve themselves on the side of the trail. And but I mean, so I got to hike with people for a few miles, which was it was cool. And, you know, that that's a stretch that you can really be efficient with your time. As long as you don't have to stop to you know use the bathroom or whatever. But yeah yeah that takes us. I mean that was the man's Anita. I did feel bad.
[00:40:25] Tayson: guys just walking in front of me Jory and I I saw a big snake on the trail and I was like, Snake, you know, he didn't do anything like snake, you know, doing something like. Hey, and by the time, he finally registered what I was saying and looks down he Standing On Top of the snake, right? So he just jumps like straight in the air, you know, the snakes just like, totally not like totally chilled out, right? Well, he goes up or like a threat and he just launches in the air and I'm like, man, I'm sorry, I just should have said nothing. Like you would have walked, right? Past it, like, without anything that I scared you to death by making you realize there's a snake, is your stepping right over it but as big bull snake is like I want to say it was five foot, it was a big thanks.
[00:41:09] Brigham: I've never even seen a snake down there.
[00:41:12] Tayson: Yeah, I did feel bad for him when he launched into the air. So I So I get up the Manzanita again, just a an efficient stop. But Manzanita marks off like the the start of the north rim climb. Like it's like that. Where as soon as you leave there you are climbing up. So it's it's yeah, like that section in the bottom. It's kind of the nice most peaceful section kind of a I look at it as a bit of a rejuvenating section and I'll talk more about that as far as just, maybe strategy if you're going into the canyon later. But like Really nice section. You get a man's need to have this big beautiful trees, but when I was there, the wind started whipping people's gear was getting blown around. There was like a metal roof on a on a building that's down in there and that thing sounded like it was going to rip off, like it was like vibrary, you know, like, holy smokes. So we're starting to get some, some big Gus, I don't know. Like at that point how strong they were but like 30 plus mile an hour gusts pretty easily. And yeah, we start gearing up and I starts cooling off, right? So I threw the Nebo windbreaker on and And just that was that was it really started started climbing, knowing like, all right, I've done this climb before. It kicked my butt. Last time we had some some guys in our group that it was kicking their butts cramping up and I kind of got, is this much slower Pace? The last time it like, by the time we got to the top, I was starting to Taft to slow down to not cramp up. And so I knew it was gonna be one of those. And so, I was, I was being pretty careful, I guess leading up to it, and that was excited to get back on it. And again, that running group that had run down South Kaibab was still not in sight. Still gone, right? And I'm like, man, they really are cruising. If we were just clicking off like 14 minutes miles, climbing up here. And then we stopped for 15 plus minutes to, you know, repack our bags and fuel up. And so there they got to be 20 minutes ahead of us minimum plus then our 15 minutes, you know, so start thinking like, man, they're really, they're really cruising.
[00:43:29] Brigham: Yeah, moving along fast.
[00:43:30] Tayson: Um, but yeah, we start to climb but this point, there's a few other people on the trail doing either coming up from the bottom to just do the north rim that day or there was one group of women. And these These Girls impress, the heck out of me, like, I hope that I'm doing this one, when I'm, you know, late 40s 50s, but this group of three, four wins four women, we're cruising up the, the North Rim as well. So few people out there but we started climbing and it started to get Western real quick. order to get like 40 plus mile an hour gusts And like the Nebo is like, I mean, you're climbing like you're climbing fast and like it was like just enough. I was about the perfect piece of gear like maybe I could have something on my hands. They were probably the only part that was really cold but it started snowing on us a little hailing on us a little raining, a little bit getting these massive gusts. There's a few spots on the north rim too. That like have a pretty good ledge drop off and I know I don't typically feel like I'm someone who's like scared of heights. But what's funny is like there's one particular Edge where there's I don't know easily 500 foot drop and I kind of like leaned out just a little and looked off of it. And the guy with me, he's like, right on the edge like, oh, you know, just looking off and he's like, he's a he's a funny dude. Tyler, he's just he's a Hanging off the edge. And and I'm like, man, that's crazy. And like, I kind of like mentally noted like Dude, that's like I'm a little uncomfortable on this Edge, right? It was funny as like fast forward to later that night when I laid down to close my eyes, That image showed up in my head, very first thing. I'm like, clearly that had an impression on me, write 40 Mi an hour guys on the trail above a 500-foot drop, you know, but Yeah, I mean other than that though just just cruised up the trail me and Tyler were hiking together and we just locked into a speed and were able to hold that the whole way up. Maybe a mile from the top, we started to run into like snow and a little bit of different Cadence. And you need at that point where like, man, I think the tops here and mentally I mentally I was ready to be at the top. But for the most part, our hike went pretty smooth, but this is kind of the funny part. I think of the story is, again, I'm, I'm like new to this group. I don't know what's going on. I guess with their inner workings of because they, these are all guys that have done the
[00:46:02] Brigham: site. Yeah. They all know each other, right?
[00:46:03] Tayson: Yeah. And so I'm kind of asking like, man, Tyler like, are these guys gonna be able to, like, hold the speed the whole time? Like they're cruising, are they, are they gonna blow up or they not like are these guys like super proven that they're, you know, and It's like, I don't know, I don't know. But we literally get to the last straightaway before we get to the North term parking lot and we can see the last one in the group. and he's like, oh like first he tells me to be quiet. He's like because he like wants to speak up on a little like. Okay. You know, so then we get up there we watch him like walking to the parking lot and he's like, all right run and I'm like, what? Like running to the parking lot. Snap, a photo and run out. And I'm like, why is that we're gonna take their souls right now? So that's the don't know, that's the David Goggins, quote, like, right essentially, it's like, Yeah, I asked like passing them in, in the manner that we pass them like, like trying to demoralize them, essentially be like, no, you're not. You're not the fastest guy on the mountain today, type of thing. So clearly like there was some inner workings with this guy named Dan and Tyler, where I think they had, they get a little competitive with each other.
[00:47:08] Brigham: Yeah. They know how to push each other's buttons. So it was
[00:47:14] Tayson: funny because sure. So we jog, we jog up the hill into the parking lot. Snap a photo and they're like, oh, like you're gonna sit down? And I was like, nope, we're tagging and going, and it turns to go and dance is like, oh, he like, hey, I think he hit it and he was next to him is like, are we gonna go? He's like, no, no, I need to eat or something. It's we leave and it was like it was just it was really Tyler was just laughing like it was we get like far enough out. He's like that was awesome. That was so good. Like did you see their faces? But I mean, just from another point is Tyler and asked you want to stay at the top and I was like, no, I don't want to stay there, it's freaking cold Frozen parking lot of snow. I would rather tag it come down at least a little less and then stop. If we need to there it's not like there's water there or anything. There's nothing for you there. Except for years, the coldest part of the hike. So anyways, that was my experience getting to the north rim. Well, I am the and the north rim is like it's a very
[00:48:14] Brigham: It's not a. I guess if there wasn't snow there and it was really nice and warm, it would be like kind of pleasant to hang out for a little bit, but it's also like kind of anti-climactic when you're there because you you're there, but you can't see anything out. Like, you can't look back behind you towards the canyon and really get much of a view. It's interesting because it's like It's a big obstacle to. to get past, you know, to overcome and it's a good Milestone but like you get there though and psychological, you're like, I have no reason to be here, so I guess I'll just turn around. But
[00:48:51] Tayson: yeah, first time I got there, that was my feeling was like south rim. Like, you are on the edge of the rim and you have
[00:48:57] Brigham: massive views.
[00:48:58] Tayson: So, I thought the North Rim would be the same and it's like,
[00:49:01] Brigham: oh, I can see 100 yards and trees and yeah, well when I so when I got into manzanita, that was the first time I'd seen you since I probably before I peeled off to use the restroom. Yeah, because we spread out. But yeah, so it's just like a quick. Hey, and that was like, like you said the wind started ripping. And you could feel it was now a cold wind. And so that was interesting. So that there's a water spigot there that you can get drinking water. So, I mean that a lot of people that's the main thing to do there, but I had developed a blister on each of my heels. That I guess like my mistake was that I should have. Stopped. A few miles earlier when it was just a hotspot and tried to tape it or at least change my socks or laced my shoes differently. But you know, I I wanted to get ahead a little bit to Manzanita and and be more efficient with my stops and you know get water and some, eat some snacks while I'm doing all that. So yeah, I So I filled up my water and it is that's the only water station. There's nothing at the top so you basically have like a 14, ish Mile Stretch because you have to go up to the rim and then back down
[00:50:27] Tayson: specifically for us on this trip though.
[00:50:30] Brigham: Yeah yeah. So so for water that's your last water until you come back past that water source so it's about 14 miles. So every I think most people were not just feeling up, just the bottles they've been using but all so filling up extra I filled up an extra two liter bladder So that took some time and takes everybody time. So I had to stop and then I thought well yeah, I better. You know, kind of resituate some snacks, and, and food and my pockets. Different types of calories because again, it was going to be a 14, Mile Stretch and then. You know, mix them electrolyte mix. And then Also because it was getting so windy, I could feel it being cold clouds, were darkening, got out of windbreaker. I just been hiking in like just an altitude hoodie at that point. But I knew I was, I knew it was going to be really cold up top, so Plan accordingly, got out the windbreaker. and even though I knew it looked like really dark clouds, I just did not want to, you know, I wasn't going to be putting on a rain jacket like just want to do that. Hold off on that as long as possible. So got the windbreaker out and then I'm like, well, yeah, now I gotta take my shoes and socks off. Try to tape up my heels, like, I keep some Leukotape in my, in my kit. And I also had an extra pair of socks. So, I thought I'd try to just do as much as I could to help my feet. So, I take my shoes off. So I'm sitting there kind of leaning up against the sign thing and I'm Barefoot and then I get one heel taped and then the rain just Unleashed. So just started blowing rain and so then I just trying to tape my other heel and like it was just getting rained on. So it was just a wet foot. So the Leukotape was not sticking and so I tried that for like a few more seconds. I'm like, well, this is not even worth it. So I tried to hurry and pack up everything up, everything else up just wasn't getting wet, but it was a long stopped, and it was a bit frustrating. But, I mean, it's crazy. Like, the group dynamic was so driven, like, I mean, I there was nobody in sight by the time I left like everybody was gone. So,
[00:52:52] Tayson: yeah, that was messing around. So I actually took, I have like, I had a 360 camera. As soon as I got in there, I took it and turned it on. Yeah. And just left it on the table while I was doing stuff. Yeah, some of these other guys like okay, I had a shoe off the socks off. All the stuff that I'm like, I'm good, you know what I mean? All I'm doing is mixing drinks. Yeah. And repacking my front bag and Somehow that stopped turned into. I think the cameras on for about 18 minutes, I'm like that seemed like, like, it goes so fast, right? And I mean, I didn't sit down. I didn't do anything. I just repacked my bag, maybe use the restroom. Maybe put on additional layer of clothing. I think I put the Nebo on there, but like I said, I'm thinking I'm ahead of all these guys. Like this guy's got a shoe off know, man. He's up on his feet shoes back on. He's ready to go before I am. I'm like these guys are efficient like, yeah fast.
[00:53:45] Brigham: Yeah. I was, I was impressed by that. I mean, because that's stopped turned into a way longer stop than I wanted it to, but Trying to get that win was really moving because at that point. So now I'm kind of like I kind of want to do like kind of a brunch like a moving brunch where I was eating more variety of things. To try to get some fuel in the body. It was going to be a little bit slower burning, but also gets some faster burning things in like right now because it's just a straight up climb for the next five or six miles or whatever, you know and then all so get a substantial amount of electrolytes in my water and but I so I remember now when I got to Manzanita Mark and Steve had both gotten behind me. They I think they both at different times, stopped to use the bathroom. That's right. Because I don't know they were remember but like It was like by the time I was taking my socks off, like they they stopped and did
[00:54:46] Tayson: nothing but get water. I don't, they don't mix anything. They don't make it, they do salt caps. And
[00:54:51] Brigham: Steve, I am pretty sure did not stop at the water. Wow. Like I saw Mark get water but somebody Next to Mark's like there goes Steve and he just kept going. Whoa, so
[00:55:03] Tayson: but I think you're aware though. This is like
[00:55:05] Brigham: yeah
[00:55:06] Tayson: like a 14 Mile right stretch. Yeah, I mean
[00:55:10] Brigham: Anyway, but yeah, that that climb was so my mentality with that climb was to just go just steady like moderate steady pace. And not like not push Pace but but also not slow down. And I would say, at that point, I was getting, I was feeling pretty good about how my like fueling and hydration strategy was going. I, you know, more later on the hydration strategy but like so, it was good, but I was, yeah, I was by myself, like, the whole way up the north rim and well, um, by You know, there's haven't done it, you know, before there's like certain Milestones on the way up, where you look by kind of compare how you feel and where you are time. Wise and but I did, you know, I was as I was getting I think probably like a mile or two from the top I started thinking, okay? Feels like, people should start becoming down past me now and and that was the case, like for like the next mile, you know, I could everybody that was ahead of me was working their way down. There were a few gusts of wind though that were I mean they were moving me. Yeah, they were physically moving me. It was impressive. How strong that wind was and luckily I say luckily like the rain Changed to like this really dry. Like balls of snow. It's like nearly hail nearly snow. Yeah. And it was windy enough that like Nebo was the perfect piece for that climb because just on top of an altitude, I took my hat off to lose heat on purpose and so I was like, Just going from, you know, no hood to a hood and then I'd get a little bit hot. I take the hood off and then, but like I just I mentioned before I do not want to put a range jacket on as much as possible and it was fine, it was perfect because I never had to but the windbreaker was like just enough to keep me from getting wet and it was never really that wet anyway. But then when it was snow is just bouncing off, you know? And so I think there's just set up
[00:57:29] Tayson: it really is. And the thing that I also like about the Nebo for that client and for like even that like slightly damp conditions is Because it's such a thin Fabric and because it's like a woven, not a knit. He does like repel the water or the snow a little bit better. It's the because we don't have to use any like really any treatments on it. A breeze really well. Right. But then there's no risk. There's such a low risk for it getting wet because it's not your jacket. It's not your insulation. It's not so If you do sweat in it or it gets rained on, like, yeah, you like, like, because like, you get these little, sometimes you get these little storms in the west where you're just like, it's only gonna rain for 10 minutes. Like, do I really want to stop and, like, the Nebo, the thing I realized after that is, like, It's so low risk because even if it got wet, it's not your actual insulation piece. And also it, dries out so fast that I just love that about it. And I was thinking about that on the cycle and like like it's it's perfect for this because it, otherwise I'd be worried about let's say it was even the Ventus. Yeah, you're right. Well, I don't want the insulation to get wet and and two layers of fabric to get wet you know? Because then you got to dry out two layers of fabric and that's
[00:58:42] Brigham: weight that it's holding onto. Yeah it's for a trip where you're you do have to do higher miles. So efficiency is way. Comes into play way more significantly. Is it is a great piece because, yeah, because you can, you never have to stop the take it off. And it's low risk, because, like you said, if it gets wet, Compromise anything, right? It doesn't compromise your safety or your temperature, regulation
[00:59:14] Tayson: that thing. I think I think one last thing with that is like you could call this a wind shirt. Like you'll see that sometimes out there like and it really is because I think sometimes when you say like a windbreaker jacket, it feels way more substantial heavy thick unbreathable. You could literally wear this like it was a shirt. It's like that breathable and Light. It's like almost all of your guys' shirts out there so so just keep that in mind and there's actually more on clothing and gear that I want to touch on at the
[00:59:43] Brigham: end.
[Editor’s note: The preceding Nebo product, fabric, breathability, drying, moisture, comfort, and performance statements are April 2024 participant observations from this specific trip—not current specifications, availability, guarantees, or purchasing guidance.]
