[00:00:00] Tayson: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Live Ultralight Podcast. Powered by Outdoor Vitals. Today we have one of your favorite episodes which is a new product Deep dive on a product called the Carbon Evo 50 Backpack, we've got Brigham as usual on the podcast with me to discuss this starting in the original design intent, what we've got built comes from the stories and experiences around that and then ultimately talking about the launch of this product. So Brigham, how are we doing today?
[00:00:29] Brigham: Doing pretty well. Excited to be releasing this one. Yeah. Yeah. And enjoy. I enjoy backpacks and Talking about them, working on them, using them. I was a I mean it's a subject to talk about in the very beginning when
[00:00:48] Tayson: we first brought onto the team, you know, forever ago. See if I backpacks was like your biggest passion in designing and we never, I haven't asked you that in a long time because we have such a wide aspect of things, but does it remain?
[00:01:05] Brigham: One of your favorite. Or a favorite. I would say. It's definitely probably one of the I mean, you know sometimes yeah, it might like go up or down a ranking you know, from month to month but it's probably top two top three for sure. Yeah, just I just I like them. There. It's like It's a product, it's a piece of gear that is like totally involved with with the body and you can't, you can't escape that, you know, you can't go backpacking. Without putting your gear in something, and you spend a lot of time. Probably more time in the backpack than you do in bed. Like, hmm. Well on the launcher, you know, I don't
[00:01:47] Brigham: know.
[00:01:49] Tayson: You might have nothing on 10. Yeah. Maybe an hour.
[00:01:51] Brigham: Yeah. Yeah. More a little bit slower. Pace trip. More relaxed. Maybe not. But still it's, you know, it's so, I like that aspect and yeah. Sure. Well, we've redesigned.
[00:02:07] Tayson: I'm not redesigned really designed to pack a new entirely new pack with the Carbon Evo 50. Of course, we've got some of our historic, you know, DNA in this pack. But you know, when we set out to talk about designing a new pack, We were able to use some of our historic information from like our CS40 feedback that we've got from that things that we really, really enjoyed with that pack and some things that we could tweak and change as well as just make a new and better pack. But I would say that, you know, as per the usual Outdoor Vitals we put a lot of energy and emphasis on load carry and things that we've
[00:02:49] Tayson: developed there and we really took that and took it just another step farther. In terms of comfort was, was kind of from the onset, but going back to the original design intent of this pack. What do you remember as far as like, what we laid out on paper and what we laid out and thought of what we wanted to design from from day one?
[00:03:10] Brigham: I mean, really, it was To build on and improve. And essentially, like is all evolved, like, what the CS40 was What it did. But just put in new materials in terms of an overall Improvement in materials, improve how it carried the load and improve, what we saw from user feedback, and what we would just call, like kind of user research. I mean, just Getting to know how people are using or choosing not to use certain things. and so, it just made a lot of sense to to look at that CS40 platform and say and to build on that to make a a better backpack kind of across all areas, whether that's you know,
[00:04:12] Brigham: better materials in some areas better integration and integration with the body, the human form. How that how it supports the load. You even improving like the value proposition. Like the the value, what you get if you know, when you pay for the backpack, improving a broader. Applicability. in terms of, Capacity just, you know, the volume of the pack. So yeah, really implementing. A lot of feedback and what we were seeing and hearing through conversations with a lot of different, you know, Backpackers and users. So yeah, and maybe something to confront
[00:04:56] Tayson: straight out of the gate would just be that we do plan to discontinue the CS40. This is the evolution of the CS40 that we're now calling the Carbon Evo 50. So some of those feedback points were You know, we had and kind of dealing with majorities here, but we had more people wanting the CS40 in a little bit bigger size. They just really struggled to get into that about 40 liter capacity and so we did kind of touch that, you know, we've built on some of those those Really prominent. Good aspects of that CS40 with the carbon frame. So we'll get into talks to that. But then just like with anything,
[00:05:39] Tayson: there's really no design out there that you're not looking at different trade-offs and things in terms of what the price or performance. You know, any of those categories as we did go through and also reanalyze all the Fabrics on the backpack, And Foams and everything, right? So we started this project off. I don't even know. I, I should have looked back at photos and stuff, but I feel like two plus years ago, at least for sure. Um, trying to think of, when I was taken out some of these newer because we went through a pile of prototypes. I've actually gifted away more and more of them. Recently, it was no, we've got, you know, closer
[00:06:27] Tayson: to the air to the end of this, this project but something that's been over two years in development and maybe walk me through some of those early prototypes and what what we were We were going for. What do we start? I was changing out
[00:06:40] Brigham: again. Interesting. Right from the beginning. Some of the things that Started like working on or oftentimes. It's almost like the scientific method. It's like a hypothesis of like what if we did this? Kind of this one isolated Improvement. Put that in a prototype and then use it, you know? And that's started very early on. And I think the first thing was probably the back panel and like just the back panel, I wasn't even say the full suspension system yet. Just the back panel kind of changing some foam placement. Cutouts. And then,
[00:07:23] Tayson: We went to a different cut in the foam. Yeah,
[00:07:26] Brigham: yeah like where the, you know kind of where the ventilation cutouts are and and things like that and then even like some of the thicknesses of some of the back panels. and then, yeah, at some point, maybe we've been simultaneously at some point after a couple iterations of that started testing actually like some of the earlier ones were Using either lighter or heavier weight, Ultra fabrics back then. Like, when we were doing these prototypes, Because we hear about, you know, we'll get like from from challenge. You know, what they would talk to us and say like you know here's the we've got this updated version of this Fabric or a new fabric, you want
[00:08:15] Brigham: to try it, so we'd get some yardage, make a couple backpacks and try that out. So that kind of was, you know, rolled into the mix of different things to to test. And prototype. And then um, at this and yeah, I think kind of it was just like this, the slow evolution of like use it test it, analyze it and then, you know, throw in another variable. and then, at some point, it really kind of became a stronger focus on upgrading the suspension. And as a whole, so, because I can't speak for you in terms of memory but like, you know, one things I saw as like I kind of like these things that
[00:09:06] Brigham: we're doing with the back panel. What else could we do? And because this is comfortable, I like a better than the CS40. And so then started tweaking Everything that was contacting the body, so not just the foam, not just the back panel, but now starting to reshape. The back panel foam, and then the the back panel, Lumbar and hip belt interface. And the contact of there and start playing with different. Different things there and just like every time I would try something, we'd kind of see, like, oh, this actually feels better than whether it's, you know, better than the CS40 or better than the previous prototype and just build. just let that play itself out
[00:09:53] Brigham: and and then, That actually kind of became like almost its own project of. Would eventually become our Carbon Flex suspension. And so it was actually a great test bed because we're also developing the, the updated Shadow light. And so it was became a test bed for the Carbon Flex suspension. Knowing that we intended to release the Shadowlight next. And so, We're all like, get double testing time.
[00:10:25] Tayson: I think that's why I'm so hard to spending back to like, testing this because we were, we were running very similar packs, but really we spent years and years just refining, that Carbon Flex suspension system.
[00:10:37] Brigham: Yeah. And Yeah. And and like, that became a major focus and then At some point. you know, after testing some of those that's a newer newer Ultra fabrics and things like that and then talking to more people, for example, like we get a lot of going to like PCT Days and talking to a lot of these people that You know, or actually they're coming through on their, through hike, or they are just there for the event because they did the, you know, the trail, the week, or the year before or something. But, you know, just so being able to get face to face with like hundreds of people, You know, that we're really. Kind of
[00:11:19] Brigham: targeted, use case and things like that. And and then look at some of our other previous purchasers of other backpacks. and just kind of look at, Fabrics for example. Like what where's where's fabric? Wearing out on this backpack. That's done the CDT. you know, or the PCT and and then just looking at that and yeah, at some point, we really kind of made a hard Like a complete decision to that. That the really wasn't any reason to. Continue pursuing like the Ultra fabric direction. because we just, really felt like, We could. Put. like, You mentioned trade-offs, we could take some, we kind of shift things around a little bit. Add some benefit in other areas
[00:12:19] Brigham: without really giving up. A realistic, anything meaning. So we saw that The the Spectra grid. So that's an ultra fiber. Rip stop with Robic nylon in between So that that is like way more than adequately durable. And we can we use different weights of that as well. So basically we're seeing that this stuff is not what's wearing out, you know, on a pack like mm-hmm. You know, and it would be like we're seeing packs with two and 3000 miles on them. That could go another Three or four thousand miles, you know, before, you know, it would be a guest that maybe that would give out at some point, so it just didn't make sense to
[00:13:10] Brigham: to put that much essentially money into a really expensive fabric that that just did not bring enough value. To the overall package. So we kind of made that commitment to move forward with, you know, just a Spectra grid. Backpack platform. so yeah, which which I mean just to highlight that a little bit more
[00:13:36] Tayson: is, you know, we're looking at It packs that have gone all these miles. And we have used this Fabric in the Shadowlights since 2020 or something like that. And the durability the durability on. It is exceptional, right. So it's Robic nylon. So high quality nylon that we're then placing that that grid the ripstop in at the grid. is the The you know same thing is you're UHMWPE fabric right? So it's it's just that incredibly durable durable fabric but we off to use the entire Fabric in that same material. We can we can use a lot less of it and still get the benefits of it and bring some of those those costs
[00:14:19] Tayson: back down. And we just I mean they're just really wasn't. I mean we have a pack in Ultra and we have a pack in this and We ourselves didn't see the major benefit to it. I think sometimes something can get labeled as like, this is this is the number one thing and that's like, that's all that's available. But I think slowing down enough to like really analyze like Is this what I need is this? Not what I need. I definitely though would have would just say like we're Landing in between these two. There are Fabrics out there that are just nylon and their Fabrics out there that are just you know, Ultra-style fabrics and
[00:14:59] Tayson: we're really and in between those in terms of function and durability and things like that because um, yeah, I have seen affect my only one that comes to mind would be a really old backpack at this point but it was just nylon and and like it does not wear the same as this Fabric and in this pack, but but we also with that took and we looked at, okay, we'll is there areas of the pack that are wearing out and there was areas of the pack that were wearing out. Namely in the mesh. The mesh was absolutely the most susceptible area, abrasion, tears, things like that. I've seen it personally. We've sought in packs
[00:15:42] Tayson: that were coming back and so that's an area where we flip it around and put in a more durable mesh. So, we went with that Ultra Stretch mesh, which is incredibly incredibly durable and that overall lift the entire package, right? Because it's any pack, any product is only a strong as weakest link. And that in, in previous models, was the weakest link. You know, I've seen people back up into really sharp sticks and poke holes in us and people you know, throw a tent stake in there and catch it wrong or something like that. I'm making go through that mesh. That will no longer be an issue at all. Yeah. With the Ultra Stretch
[00:16:19] Tayson: that we did put on to the pack.
[00:16:22] Brigham: Yeah. And that I mean, To take that, even further. and, Because everything you just said, is exactly. Was exactly part of the thought, process of making those decisions. But but also, you know, I didn't like Come from nowhere. Our Skyline Fastpack we essentially use Ultra Stretch as armor on that Fastpack. So like the whole entire lower third, around that backpack is Basically, encapsulated in Ultra Stretch. And it like absolutely does that job of just it is durable stuff. Being a stretch woven fabric. You can cram stuff into and just not failing. You know not wearing out, not tearing or ripping holes in it. And so, you know, we we basically had a solution already to the
[00:17:19] Brigham: to the stretch mesh problem, it's just a matter of like saying okay. Yeah, we've we've seen enough to to make that decision that, yeah, we're gonna put a little bit heavier, massively more durable fabric where it actually matters. Yep. Yep.
Editor’s note: The two-plus-year development timeline, PCT/CDT observations, material comparisons, multi-thousand-mile examples, Spectra-grid durability, and Ultra Stretch claims describe February 2026 design interpretation and field experience. They are historical claims, not current specifications or universal durability guarantees.
[00:17:37] Tayson: Let's come back though to the flex frame, Carbon Flex frame and suspension system. There was some some awesome improvements. I would say we did there obviously with the CS40 we fell in love with the carbon frame. And initially we went to a carbon frame to reduce weight And we did, we cut the frame weight close to half of what an aluminum frame is by moving it to the carbon. But as we backpacked more and more with the prototypes and then the CS40, when it came out, we fell in love with the feeling of a carbon frame over an aluminum frame. When we would go from the CS40 to the Shadow, the original shadowlight.
[00:18:24] Tayson: That had the aluminum frame to me, just felt like so much more of a harsh ride. It doesn't, you know, absorb as much. It doesn't Bend and flex as much, and so, it was just, just felt so much more aggressive. The second you put it on your back more, more rigid. So he did fall in love with that with that. Frame aspect. And so we wanted to keep that going forward and I mean, we've talked about this before, we'll always talk. That's again, I'm sure, but the carbon frame is very expensive. Far the most expensive part of this. It is. There's a good reason I would say why other manufacturers don't use carbon. It's it's
[00:19:09] Tayson: just quite simply somewhere in the ballpark of about 10 times more expensive than an aluminum frame.
[00:19:14] Brigham: I'm just even though and that's like you can break that down into sub components, and it's just still more expensive. So it's not just The material. It's just not what we pay the supplier for the end product. It's like to develop. These days that we want like as expensive. Like, yeah. And that's probably actually like gram for gram. Like that's probably the most expensive part is the up front cost of of developing carbon the carbon fiber product.
[00:19:47] Tayson: Yeah, we've got it. We've got a put essentially, tens of thousands of dollars in the molds and things like that. That we have to front before we produce stays at all, you know, our Frames at all. So we we are putting our money where our mouth is on this one. It is a very expensive to do this and it is for those of you that have not yet used a carbon frame. Specifically our carbon frame this like once you do you will you will for sure. Notice that difference in ride quality and comfort. The good aluminum frames out there. Yes, our old aluminum frame was was a good aluminum frame, and we put a
[00:20:26] Tayson: lot of research and to that, but the feel and the Comfort, they're just different. They're just very very different. And I think if you are an avid backpacker someone who's putting time into a pack, you will notice that difference very quickly and really love that carbon frame. So we wanted to keep that carbon frame, and we talked about messing around the Foams
[00:20:48] Tayson: and everything's but, why are you that? I think we really drastically improved that will, you'll notice version is in our hip belt. Actually rebuilt and kind of restructured that hip belt, so that it is able to make it more comfortable and just more contact in general with the hips on the body. Regardless, if you're, if you're skinnier set, wider set, it's going to allow more of a conformed fit around the body. It'll create less slippage and just more Comfort, less, potential, hot spots, less potential, gaps, or anything like that. And it's just an incredibly incredibly comfortable and it makes it so that the difference even from our great-carrying CS40 to this Carbon Evo 50 frame,
[00:21:38] Tayson: which is now both on this pack and the Shadowlight. Is is remarkable. I you may see some ads or different things but one one story in particular where I really got to taste that was I was actually doing a pack rafting trip in the Grand Canyon. I did [unclear] miles of backpacking but I was carrying a But right, I averaged about 40 pounds worth of weight in my pack, including water carries and things. So ultralight pack carrying 40 pounds and those two usually don't go great together. When you've got, you know, a sub two pound backpack carrying another 38 pounds of gear in it and I was just blown away at
[00:22:23] Tayson: how comfortable it was and specifically the changes that were made that hip belt. All of these areas that allow you to just take that weight set up the pack and really pull the majority of the weight off of your shoulders, put it down on your hips because I wanted is I had to do a 20-mile day. There's pretty rough country most of it off Trail because it's in this really backcountry area of the Grand Canyon where there's not really like the trailer is a kind of non-existent in areas and climbing up, I had to do a lot of scrambling, some really hairy scrambling down on the Canyon's and was just it was
[00:23:04] Tayson: It was a It was an amazing trip to. Feel the differences that were made into this pack. So overall though, we changed that hip belt up, we did slightly, adjust some things in the frame areas, we beefed up and changed up and you know, spent a lot of time in back foam panel and that's something too that I don't want to just gloss over either. Is that back foam panel? It is really comfortable. Now, when you talk about ultralight packs again sub two about two pound backpacks or anything in that ballpark, there's a lot of packs that your back is going straight against a waterproof fabric. In this pack, you will have mesh and then
[00:23:46] Tayson: foam, you know, and then the waterproof fabric and see how have all this space to dissipate sweat, you know for sweat to push away from the body and move out as well as just bringing in ventilation for us and in the way that we are philosophy I guess you could say is such that we really like to carry that weight as close to our back as we possibly can but we also don't want the back of the backpack, you know, jabbing things into our back, we don't want sweat just like like I don't know. I just picture like a trash bag you know being put against your back that's kind of what those non you
[00:24:24] Tayson: know this waterproof non breathable Fabrics really are is just like putting a layer of plastic against your back like you don't want that. Sweat the heat, the friction, you know, the all those things really developed to a much higher level. So we, we build our frames. We build our back panels in a way that we can carry the weight, really close to the body for maximum load carry Comfort. But we still have that that foam and that mesh in there to help with both venting. And Sweat dissipation and avoiding any kind of hot spots. But Anything else you want to mention just kind of that back panel itself? Like say we did, we did mess
[00:25:04] Tayson: They experimented with the foams and different ways of cutting and venting them, it super happy with the way. That those
[00:25:10] Brigham: all turned out. But yeah, I mean that's Yeah, that's it was all. It was all worth, all the testing and time to just like incrementally, just let that suspension turn it into what it is and that's been It's been really good. Really, you know, like looking back and really glad that something we focused on and and it's nice because It can kind of standardized. between like our backpacks, like, how he's gonna feel like, just That's just how it feels, you know. And and it's, you know, Universal between, you know, our two backpacking packs. Which which kind of eliminates a variable of decision or indecision in terms of, they have the same load-carrying capability, comfort,
[00:26:01] Brigham: and all of those things. And so, yeah, it turned out turned out. Well, I'm happy. Happy with where we're
[00:26:06] Tayson: at, with that. Yeah. All right. So we've covered the Carbon Flex frame. We talked about the two different or the two major fabrics. And this in the back, walk us through some of these other aspects,
Editor’s note: Carbon-versus-aluminum weight, cost, flex, ride-quality, ventilation, sweat, hot-spot, approximately 40-pound load, and Grand Canyon comfort comments are February 2026 claims and personal experience. Fit and comfort vary by body, load, packing, and terrain; verify current load guidance.
[00:26:23] Brigham: which everyone. So that's your next, yeah, capacity that was that was that was that was a, that was a good one too, to make that call and to just realize we talked because I really like the 40 liter capacity of the of the CS40 for just like really dialed in trips but but I am not everyone else you know and and no one person is You know, the target group, right? So really just observing talking to a lot of a lot of people getting feedback, whether that's incoming emails. um, or face-to-face, you know, at events realizing that We felt like we could. Suit people suit people's needs better or suit. More people's needs that
[00:27:14] Brigham: were still like really dialed in Long Distance Ultra Backpackers With just more capacity. We really saw that. That was a much more in demand and usable. Capacity range like somewhere. 50 to 60 liters of total capacity. So there's there's a couple things there. I mean,
[00:27:40] Tayson: one, just back to that. I think it does. Give you a lot more flexibility to use the pack. I mean yes, we took our CS 40s on five-day. 100 mile, backpacking trips. We had dialed in gear certain times the season, sometimes we were even repackaging, food to remove some of the bulk out of things and we could we could do it. Absolutely go on a full five-day trip but growing that capacity allowed us to just be more flexible be more forgiving. And, you know, not really adding much weight in terms of the overall pack, but you are just just creating more opportunity to use that pack for a bigger range of people. I would say
[00:28:25] Tayson: that something around the 50- to 55-liter range is probably the most picked and used pack. I don't have our own data, but from what I'm kind of inferring out there and then we also had decided to discontinue the 45 liter Shadow light because we did have, you know, sales and data on that. And then by moving this pack up, it kind of gave us that opportunity to have to cover both of these bases, just a little bit more. Yeah. And and pull a, the 45 out of the lineup per se. So yeah, that was a while ago. I just barely remembered that aspect of this whole equation. But yeah, the capacity grew. So, what is
[00:29:05] Tayson: the current capacity of this pack? Because You know, for us, we don't kind of I don't know how to say this but we don't maximize every inch of the pack and list it as our capacities in our measurements, we'll just give a give us what the actual capacity of the pack.
[00:29:23] Brigham: I mean, we're like our claimed, what on paper, what we're saying, or total capacity is 58 liters, like, I don't count. um, you know, every week, we don't count like every possible thing that you could count, but the main compartment, With the roll-top rolled down four times. So essentially that comes out to about, it's just a realistic use case because I I don't want to say to the top seam of the bag because you really a lot of most people, you really can't like roll precisely down to the top seam and close it up and say okay well that's it. But the main compartment, what I call the main compartment measurement is we roll
[00:30:09] Brigham: the roll top down four times and close it. That's 47 liters. and then, a very conservative 11 liters of external capacity, so, The water bottle pockets are each. more than 2 liters. On each side, each hip-belt pocket about a liter. And our stretch pocket is it's very large, like our stretch mesh pocket, that's now Ultra Stretch. It's very large. here, it's almost the top edge of the stretch pocket is only maybe an inch and a half or two inches below the top of the backpack. If you look at some other backpacks out there, when you see them stuffed full and then The stretch pocket. Looks like it's maybe even half the height of the backpack
[00:31:06] Brigham: and it just, it just seems like it's so much wasted space. That's such a usable. pocket for like the distance Backpacker and the ultralight Backpacker It is volume-optimized. So we we put these side panels on the stretch pocket that actually add legitimate depth to the stretch pocket, rather than just a stretch pocket that when it's fully relaxed. It just smashes flat up. Flush against the back of the backpack. There's about an inch and a half of outward volume built into the size of the stretch pocket. So that you're starting with built-in volume. yeah, and capacity right there and then so that pocket is like well over five liters so you can see where we
[00:31:59] Brigham: end up with way more than 11 liters of external storage but we just we don't want to overstate, we would rather say 58 liters. But I mean, you can put your lunch in the hip belt pockets. And I carry a filter in a cell phone with 500 calories in there. Usually
[00:32:18] Tayson: Let's talk about that back volumized pocket for instance. When you have the less-durable meshes that we've experimented with ourselves, sometimes you do get an overall greater percentage of stretch like if 100% is relaxed you can pull it to 200% or something like this. Yeah you can get a more overall stretch. However, sometimes the bounce back, isn't there? It relaxes over time gets floppy and loose and then I'll talk about the main thing is the durability. Like you can poke a hole through some of these meshes accidentally. So we went to the Ultra Stretch mesh And with that though you don't get quite as much stretch in the fabric, there's still a lot of stretch in
[00:33:02] Tayson: it for sure but not quite as much. And so as we were utilizing that back pocket, Brigham, you know, took the time to add volume to that pocket. So that even though it doesn't have quite as quite as much overall stretch as a as a lower durability mesh, might we still have the same capacity in that pocket. Still have a lot of stretch and it's all you might I think though to all go back and kind of recap on your way that the pocket is designed. I love that about our backpack because having a very tall pocket, often means that when you shove things into it, you don't have to have them shooting off the back
[00:33:43] Tayson: of your backpack. There are certain backpacks out there that I can spot from hundreds of yards away when I see Backpackers on the trail because they can stuff so much stuff into the little mesh pocket and it shoots like straight off of their back. Which having weight far away from the center of your back is not the optimal way to carry its bulky, but it really kind of has gives you that feeling of like getting pulled over backwards. And so, having a taller pocket, like this allows you to put, let's say the same amount of stuff in it, but it's carrying up against tight against the pack and a much more load carry positive
[00:34:22] Tayson: way versus having stuff. That's that's You know, pulling you over backwards. If you can try to visualize that. Yeah, I mean that's all.
[00:34:32] Brigham: It's all. Designed to. To work all together as one one. Piece, right. So Our side profile of the main bag. Is. Tapered curve at the bottom. So the farther down towards the lumbar. It gets the pack gets from a side profile gets More narrow but it curves as well. So it so it cannot sag. So even if you pack your pack horribly and you just put all the heaviest stuff right at the bottom. The profile, the side profile of the bag, like physically prevents the bag from sagging, meaning the load the contents in the bag. Cannot sit lower than the bottom edge of the bag. Because of that curvature and that curvature is
[00:35:29] Brigham: built in. To kind of match the the stretch pocket as it as it comes up. And so there's a There's kind of a maximum width of the backpack and then it actually tapers down a little bit towards the top, so that it helps again, kind of self-contain the load and prevent too much. Outward extension of the backpack away from our back and that that really just helps stabilize the load helps you feel like there's not weight right at shoulder level? That's trying to fall off backwards.
[00:36:05] Tayson: and I'm just trying to think of the best way to like, Explain this in words, right? It's like, if you took the letter, like a capital letter U and you cut it in half, and you put a line right down the middle of that, like, that's where your back would go. And then, if you were to fill that, with with contents, right? Is it gets to the bottom, the bottom of that, you comes and connects to the back. And so it's, it's going to push all everything towards your back as it gets to the bottom of the pack. And that's what we're doing. We're we've cut and curved that now some packs are perfectly Square.
[00:36:36] Tayson: They're just like this rectangle, which means that, as it as you stuff the back full, it can sit all the way at the bottom and away from your butt away from your low back area. And that's an area. That's not an optimal carry position, you know, for load Comfort carry, but it all. So, kind of like you just mentioned like if you pack the bag with less stuff, you know that's where the stuff's all gonna go sit. It's all gonna slide away from the body and fall back over there or it's going to get really sloppy and loose. And you're going to be using every compression strap on the on the bag to try to
[00:37:10] Tayson: prevent that. Whereas ours is really like this. A thoughtless weight like like you don't have to like, yes, we encourage you to pack the bag a certain way, but it's so much more thoughtless in terms of like compression straps. We do have compression straps on this but rarely if ever do, I feel like we end up using them because the pack kind of self-loads and self-compresses. Very very, very, very comfortably. So So yes, in terms of a curved bottom panel, we've kind of used the terms of self compressing, bottom panel between that, you know, the pocket itself, the layout of the pocket, the frame, you know, so much of this pack goes
[00:37:51] Tayson: into the comfort of that load carry. So pocketing wise and capacity wise. We are, you know, claiming about 58 liters of capacity, we want to far exceed the 50 liters, that's typically how we've we've done things here. That really, the main compartment is about 50. Liters is kind of what we Target and then the pocket on the outside is extra. So this pack will be extremely useful to many of you whether you're doing through hikes and you know, going really far distances and packing, you know, from every extent to whether you're getting cold at the start and the finish or hot in the summers, whether you're someone who's just not quite to the
[00:38:32] Tayson: ultra light level and you pack in bulky or extras. If you're like me and you take kids out sometimes, you need that extra capacity, you know, it's it's going to be a pack that can work for so many different instances. It's really a great sweet spot for for capacities. So yeah. Okay. Man. What if what are we not touch? I guess. Let's talk about the side compression real quick.
Editor’s note: The 58-liter total, 47-liter main compartment, external-pocket volumes, self-compressing shape, five-day and long-distance use, and load-stability comments are February 2026 design claims. Verify current capacity and packing guidance; trip length alone does not determine required volume.
[00:38:56] Brigham: Yeah, there's a basically kind of a three-point compression cord with a tensioner on each side, really easy to use and the point like With the 3-point. Compression is so that. And by three point I mean there's a there's an anchor point. Towards the top of the side of the backpack and then there's, you know, Anchor Point in the middle. Back. Towards the stretch pocket, seam of the backpack and then it goes back again to the lower kind of Lumbar. Area of the backpack so that cord kind of makes a sideways triangle. and it's yeah, so putting longer items whether if there's You know, if you've got tent poles that you know, you want to route
[00:39:50] Brigham: and contain with the compression cords, you just kind of settle down behind the chord. Just so they dropped down and rest into the water bottle pocket. Other I mean, I Don't think I I put my snow shovel in the in the back pocket in the stretch pocket. Hmm. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Pretty pretty. Basic feature. Use it? However, makes sense to you, but it's yeah, simple to use. We also changed up the top strap on this.
[00:40:21] Tayson: Yeah, based on some feedback, so we do there. So the top strap is a V.
[00:40:26] Brigham: So in the there's two anchor points. on the outermost part of the backpack. So if you're wearing the backpack The, the far back. Seam of the of the main bag. It's sewn into 2 points there. And that comes together at one point, right? Behind your neck with with a buckle and there's a webbing tensioner. To give it more slack, or tighten it up. It's got a good range to it. The idea was just for the people didn't need to put a bear canister up there. Um, but yeah, it definitely stabilizes things better. I even even like a lot of us will put our little eighth-inch foam pads at the top sometimes. Chairs have gone
[00:41:18] Brigham: up their shares with the with the pad up there and it just helps stabilize that. keep it from shifting around set a little bit more capacity in terms of length of the cord. If we have a very generous amount of cord up there, so putting more things on the top of the pack is easier. If you've got really bulky items, there's just more More length to that cable or the cord. Now. Yeah, cord. Strap straps. Just go strap. It is what? Yeah it's it's a yeah. It's webbing. Okay. Yeah, I don't miss anything going over. I mean, what I, you know, honestly we already talked about the Carbon Flex suspension but specifically with the hip Pockets,
[00:41:59] Brigham: like I just enjoyed making those zippers function, better.
[00:42:04] Tayson: Yes. Yeah. The zippers do function. So significantly better, even though I just in here filming some other stuff recently and with zero things in that pocket, I could just easily run those. Yeah, one hand without
[00:42:18] Brigham: looking doesn't doesn't require attention, which is really nice. and honestly, a lot of that just came from doing like, Longer hikes like some of the Grand Canyon hikes we've done where I've taken that pack because I constantly we're trying to do like either 50- or 100-mile efforts and so like the name of the game is staging your nutrition and your hydration. And so, yeah, quick access just having food that you can constantly shovel in is like, it's, it's huge. It's like the difference between doing it and not doing it, and so, just having food. And then, even I keep my on backpacking trips. I keep my filter in my left hip-belt pocket, so I don't ever have
[00:43:02] Brigham: to take my backpack off to, to fill up my, you know, two liters of water at Water stops. yeah, what I typically do is I'll have
[00:43:12] Tayson: I'll have sunscreen chapstick. Headlamp and sometimes I'll put water filter in there and that's on one pocket. And and that is nowhere near full know. And now on the other side, I usually just cram that full of food. So bars and gummies I like to keep my salt capsules there. I like to keep my drink mixes there and so just have complete access to those. Now we we do sell, you know, kind of an accessory. That if you want them, you can you can add the shoulder pocket onto these packs really easily. I pretty much only put my phone in the shoulder pocket. Everything else? I just zip into my hip belt pocket. Yeah, so
[00:44:00] Tayson: that I often have my phone in a pocket but I have also zipped my phone. A lot of times into my hip belt pocket. I've got actually more of the larger size phone and I can zip it in there. Just fine as well. So got lots of options for quick access. I was just jokingly thinking, but We just start calling our pockets like 500-calorie pockets. That's like is you could we put it many times like I have put at least 500 calories worth of food
[00:44:29] Brigham: into those Pockets which is a full a full meal you know a good way of tracking. If you're trying to do like an intense effort it's actually a useful tool and tracking your your input. Hmm. You know your intake because sometimes it's like, that's not where you want to put your mental energy is Just keep them track of what you've done. So it's like, man if I know that Between water stops or whatever. Like I've got, I can just say, like, oh, I just put 350 calories in that hip belt pocket so between 9 a.m. and 11 a.m. I, consumed 350 calories more, you know it's nice to just have like you said the salt
[00:45:10] Brigham: caplets and just to kind of every day take account of how many capsules are in there and while you're walking you just take a little baggie out, count your caplets and you know what you've well, you've put in your body so that's that's All things, but we
[00:45:26] Tayson: okay, one last thing, we've done this on all of our packs, but I feel like we did refine it even more, but the the water bottle pocket, we put on a diagonal cut. So in other words, farther away from your body, it's higher in the back and it drops down and lower as it comes towards your back. We also position these Pockets really low on the pack as low as we can get them. And so it makes it so much easier to to grab a water bottle while the pack is on your back. Sorry about the pack is on your back. Um, that's very much by Design, but it also, but with putting that seam
[00:46:03] Tayson: in that cut in there, holds those water bottles in place and yeah, a lot better
[00:46:08] Brigham: not better. I mean, it's like we're dropping them, but holds it better for certain things and that's because they were already angled, like, even all our packs, the water-bottle pockets have already been angled, but just from use and feedback. Sometimes when people stop or they sit down, just that when they're the pack kind of like the bottom is hitting the ground bottom. It's a log or the ground. That let's kind of lifts the shoulder straps up and basically creates a little bit of slackness in the bag or somebody leans back there was sometimes it would happen where a water bottle would fall. Out the back, I kind of fall backwards out of the pocket.
[00:46:46] Brigham: So Yeah. Increasing the the height of the pocket towards the rear. That doesn't make it any easier to grab it doesn't. Make that more accessible, it just prevents it from falling out. So, yeah, and then I think we also increase the
[00:47:04] Tayson: capacity. They're over the CS40, just a little bit so that it's easier to have two, one-liter Smartwater bottles, in each side pocket. Yeah. Which, which
[00:47:15] Brigham: are bigger or volume, The the elasticized opening has been kind of modified to contain a little bit better, but also stretch more. And then that's, I would just say, like, with the water bottles, that's That's an individual thing. We're not saying that's What you're supposed to do, but you can do it easier. Now like for example, I only ever keep one bottle in both in each pocket. Some people like to put two, its just easier to put two in
[00:47:49] Tayson: him. So think that brings this all the way to kind of talk about price. And just
Editor’s note: Compression, bear-canister top carry, quick-access pockets, food and hydration examples, bottle retention, and bottle capacities reflect February 2026 design and personal use. Secure every item and confirm current feature details before a trip.
[00:47:56] Brigham: what we've what we've wrapped everything together with oversizing real quick. Yeah, because the original Like the CS40, which this is replacing. We have three hip belt sizes, small, medium, and large. We now have five. So, we've got extra-small through extra-large and I'll say, like, you got to be really, really small to need an extra small. Like even my lady Ashley, there's some ladies that have been testing some small packs And like, even they couldn't even even the extra small. Was too small for these. These ladies. Oh, pretty surprised. They're and they're, they're like this fit Backpackers.
[00:48:41] Tayson: Yeah. So those kinds of things are things that when you see them on our site and you think you need them, you should buy them because we can't guarantee us keeping those in stock very well because It, you know, there's minimums in terms of us, what we order, and that's such a fringe, tiny group of people that need something that small, that we don't, we don't order them on every order. Yeah, Yeah. Extra small all the way to an extra large hip belt now. Yeah, same three size torso, small, medium, and large. Yeah. And then launching in one color we did keep it with the white color, however, we did a black ripstop
[00:49:19] Tayson: on it so just give it a darker tone. And
[00:49:22] Brigham: the bottom of the backpack is is black, heavier Fabric and the bottom of the water bottle pockets. so, it's so the I'd say, 65–70% of the bag, is the 100D-to-200D ripstop Spectra that's white with black ripstop and then the bottom panel and the water bottle pocket bottles are the 200D-to-400D Spectra. Fabric and that's black. And then the suspension is is black.
[00:49:58] Tayson: Yeah. So To try to. Explain, I guess where this alert this all comes together at. As we did, we were able to Bring down the price point a little bit from the CS40 by taking away some of those the ultra fabric aspect of it and bringing in Ultra Stretch mesh and the Robic Spectra-grid fabric which is really helpful. However we still have an extremely expensive carbon frame in this thing but this is this is really happy with the prices at special with everything else going on in the greater economy right now in the USA. And so we're going to launch this pack at $280 really excited about that. I think it
[00:50:45] Tayson: will be phenomenal. Pack it puts us right there at a very approachable price point I think still for packs But you're getting some major upgrades in this pack when it comes to that suspension system and I think this pack we know this pack can last, you thousands and thousands and thousands of miles. We've seen it over the last six years of producing packs with this exact Fabric in it and we've just continued to make this pack better, more durable, more refined, more comfortable, more usable in all the things, right? We're just always here to continually improve and improve our best work year after year, after year. So, super excited about the pack. Maybe, let's take
[00:51:32] Tayson: just a quick second. To talk about. Because we talked
Editor’s note: Hip-belt and torso sizes, color, 100D–400D material discussion, $280 price, stock expectations, thousands-of-miles durability, and lineup statements are February 2026 launch claims. They are historical, not current price, inventory, specifications, fit, or durability commitments.
[00:51:39] Tayson: about some of the similarities in the Shadowlight pack. So, Just really quick touching on some of the the difference is they actually utilize a lot of the same Fabrics, same same same frames, same suspension systems. So realistically, if someone was to ask me, which pack should I get? I'm pretty much just going with what pocket configuration and capacity. Are you really gravitating towards? Obviously, the sea, the excuse me, the carbon Evo pack is a little bit more streamlined. It's a little bit more of that, traditional long-distance-backpacker layout I mean I mean what would you add to that? Is it is it, is there any difference in width of the pack? Side to
[00:52:26] Tayson: side with inside.
[00:52:27] Brigham: It's the same. I mean, literally the what contacts your body that side of the backpack is identical. it's just the, I mean, the Shadowlight is so yeah, I think the two biggest things are How? What is your kit look like? Or what seasons do you intend to frequent the most? So if you do shoulder season and or winter, backpacking a lot, Shadowlight has 15 liters more volume. It's significantly bigger. It's almost like I have a hard time even using The I have a hard time filling the Shadowlight up with it doesn't matter what the trip. It doesn't matter how many days, it doesn't matter. If it's
[00:53:22] Brigham: the middle of winter and the mountains, I have a hard time using all the capacity. So that's kind of a big one. That's
[00:53:28] Tayson: I mean I have to a few examples of that just in the past year, right? We just went on a winter, backpacking trip, I took an eight-person tipi and a titanium stove all in the Shadowlight, with the stove. Yeah plus winter gear and and stuff I did that Grand Canyon hike that I talked about whereas in the backcountry of Grand Canyon had a full packraft 13 pounds worth of pack craft paddles gear. Life preserver, I did that in the Shadowlight That was pretty full. That was a pretty full pack, and I took it on the Kaibab Trail last year, and most of that trip, I had the side compression stuff done on the
[00:54:04] Tayson: Shadowlight because it was I don't want to say it was too big of a pack, but I had, I had extra room in the pack. I guess she would say for a six-day, 140-mile no-resupply trip. It's a, it's a good size backpack for sure. And I say, you know, with the seasonality thing
[00:54:23] Brigham: it's That's the way I like to look at it because that means you, you need more bulk. So that means like we're, you know, down sleeping bag for the winter time is bulkier than down sleeping bag for the summertime. So just that, you know you're adding more volume, you're adding some more significant puffy and maybe have one or two extra layers. So That volume. It's kind of about the volume in the capacity. It's not, it's not about the weight, they're going to carry the weight. the same from the most part, in terms of the suspension, so, What type of seasons and conditions? Are you backpacking in and or do you Are you an organization person
[00:55:12] Brigham: or you and access persons? There's the reality is is there's just Certain types of people doesn't matter how minimalist they are. some people still like, you know, some access or extra bits of organization and Is equally their people that just absolutely don't care for they don't want it and and that's that's kind of the other differentiating. Decision-making factor is, you know, are you? Are you dialed in or you streamlined or you just somebody that just wants to simplify the pack as much as possible? Not you know, separate what goes where you pack you pack your pack the same way every time you know exactly what goes in and what order. let's be kind of like
[00:55:55] Brigham: my the two things that I would focus on, Absolutely size
[00:56:00] Tayson: and access the last minor thing. I would, I would maybe just throw in here. And this is really, I don't know. This is based in this much fact, as or not, but it does seem like for someone is, like big as me, right? I'm, I'm like six to bigger framed, right? I can wear the Shadowlight and have kind of that extra size capacity pocketing and it really doesn't bother me but I Have seen other people that are maybe a smaller framed person and they kind of enjoy I think if or it almost seems like it fits them a little bit better just to have that smaller capacity size and not maybe have those upper
[00:56:34] Tayson: side pockets in terms of like bulk and fitting on their body. So, I would say if you're a smaller frame person, you can consider that obviously the bags do kind of grow and scale a little bit with the different torso sizes. You get into that, small torso backpack, the pack will shrink up just a little bit, in terms of you lose a little bit of capacity as we go to that smaller frame and things like that. But, like, Derek on our team I think he's always going to gravitate towards the Carbon Evo Backpack. Whereas sometimes I do go with the Shadowlight but I love, I like organization. I like the zipper. I'll definitely be using
[00:57:12] Tayson: both packs not but I'm just saying like that's a preference thing. Maybe I've seen just in the field with people that use these packs, but yeah, for sure. Um, But overall. Like both these have their their place super excited, to be releasing the Carbon Evo 50, so many great developments, and new things have gone into this pack. I really think that this is a pack that the more we get these packs and people's hands, we're just gonna see so much positive feedback from people that are actually on the trail using the pack in terms of of that Comfort. We've already had, you know, tons of it from the CS40 and this is really gonna
[00:57:53] Tayson: raise the bar in terms of ultralight, backpacking, comfort. I think you're gonna be hard-pressed to find anything more comfortable out there for sub-two-pounds. This pack does come in at about 30 ounces in weight. So, we're under that two-pound mark, which is always a goal for us. But man, that sure offers a lot in terms of comfort and capacity for for being sub-two-pounds, Okay. Any. Anything else that I missed?
[00:58:27] Brigham: I don't, I don't think so. I think I mean, we kind of, I think we've covered everything. At least. Broad stroke on the pack. So Yeah. Super excited to be releasing another pack. excited to hear what you guys think of this pack, if you would
Editor’s note: Carbon Evo 50 versus Shadowlight capacity, season, organization, body-size, approximately 30-ounce weight, sub-two-pound, comfort, and performance comparisons are February 2026 guidance and experience—not universal fit, load, or comfort guarantees.
[00:58:46] Tayson: Leave comments. If you want to leave comments, go to. I would say go to YouTube to leave those comments, specifically on this episode, and let us know what you think of some of the design things that have gone into this. This pack is now available as of the time of this recording. So you can jump over to the website and look at it in more detail and photos and videos of the pack itself, but appreciate you guys listening. And it's always fun to go get into the nitty-gritty of, of Designing and the stories and all of the thought processes that go into designing the pack. Make sure like, subscribe the episode and the podcast, and
[00:59:26] Tayson: we'll see you guys in the next one.
Editor’s note: The episode’s “releasing,” availability, website, comment, and launch statements describe the February 2026 release period. In particular, the source-supplied “launching Feb. 23, 2026” language is historical, not a current launch or availability claim; use the exact product page below for current details.
