[00:00:00] Tayson: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Live Ultralight Podcast powered by Outdoor Vitals. Today we're gonna be talking about an event. I did back in January called Spike Camp. On Spike Camp. It's essentially an ultra marathon of sorts Senator around climbing up and down, a single Mountain. But during that event, I had a great opportunity to do some gear testing. And so I want to take some time to just talk about that event. But also talk about shoes and how important they are and the effects of the shoes that you choose in terms of speed effort, stability, and things of that nature. So, today, I've got Tyler on here to more or less kind of
[00:00:39] Tayson: interview me and and walk us through that story together and just bring more insight into the world of shoes and and how they end up affecting us on the trail. So, I don't know today. Tyler
[00:00:51] Tyler: doing well, I'm excited. I like hearing about these kind of events, so it'll be fun.
[00:00:55] Tayson: Yeah, they're, they're definitely interesting. I mean, I know that you do some of your own events motor riding obviously, if you 100 things like that and we can definitely geeked out on gear and The science of human fueling and and just the body in general, obviously. I've written a lot of the content for the OVO 100 training plans as well. And so definitely something that we we Bond and connect on. But yeah, it was just an interesting one for sure.
[00:01:25] Tyler: Yeah. So for those who don't know, Spike Camp is a race up in Oregon, and essentially, you're just or Oregon. Yeah. And you're essentially just trying to Summit Mount Pisgah over and over, right?
[00:01:41] Tayson: Yeah, Mount Pisgah to go up and down on the trail. They had us going on. You're fastest, route is about 3.1 or 3.15 miles and it's almost exactly 1,000 feet in climbing. It's a little over 1,000 feet. I want to say, but pretty much 1,000 feet. Every single time you go up to the top and then back down so you don't 1,000 feet in 1.5 miles, basically, which is just, it's super steep.
[00:02:06] Tyler: Yeah, man. That's I mean, we did a hike yesterday as a company, coming out and that was four miles with What was it? 1500 feet. So, just barely more elevation per mile than what your race was. And I can feel that descent from one descent and my legs a little bit today. I did run last night, but so that's, that's an interesting comparison.
[00:02:39] Tayson: Yeah, yeah. I mean I think or even like our local Sea Trail that would almost be more comparable because that's 2200 feet of climbing in four miles. So, that would be about 1,000 feet in two miles. I don't see you can kind of you can get some ideas though with me about it is, but it's, it's very steep, there's really no flat. There's no, well, there is zero flat. Actually the flattest part of the whole race was about 100 yards of the parking lot. Every time he came down, it left the parking lot, and then right at the top, there's about 100 yards to go over and like it to pick up the duck at
[00:03:13] Tayson: the top and then carry that back down. So you had got to the top essentially but
[00:03:17] Tyler: nice and so the format is As many laps as you can top to bottom in 12 hours from 5 a.m. to 5 p.m. right and you said they considered a finisher as someone who completed 10 laps.
[00:03:33] Tayson: Yep.
[00:03:33] Tyler: Yeah, okay, so So, yeah, 30 miles is the the bare minimum finish.
[00:03:42] Tayson: Yeah, they give you like, a, bolo, like a cowboy bolo if you had 10 laps, so that was kind of the The first tier goal for sure.
[00:03:51] Tyler: Yeah. And so um the name of the race is Spike Camp. What's that?
[00:03:57] Tayson: A guy named. Well, he goes by, like, T Spike. That's like his Instagram handle. I can't, I can't remember his first, and if it is like like Tyler or something Spike. But he's the founder of the race. He has a he has a group called recovery strong, that kind of sponsors it, which is like, A recovery program or sponsorship. So the whole race is essentially a charity, but but T-Spike is an ultra Runner. He's an extreme athlete. So he put together this race and just like this format. But for those of you all that are familiar with a guy named Cameron Hanes, well, T-Spike is Cameron Hanes’s brother, and so they live in the same
[00:04:39] Tayson: area. So if you ever see Cameron Haynes or watch like his podcast or things on the, he always takes his podcast person up to the top of that mountain and they jump on the old. Pyramid of rocks thing. That is the mountain that we were going up and down. Cool. Okay, so what was the
[00:04:55] Tyler: draw for you? Do the race?
[00:04:59] Tayson: At my buddy, Jack through doing some of these Grand Canyon rim-to-rim-to-rim events that are fives. He's also an ultra marathon guy. And so we're just kind of looking for a time that we could ever meet up and do something together. He did this race in 2025 and so he invited me to come out 2026 and I was kind of on the fence thinking about it and actually was up in Montana for a week and some some hunting and backpacking. And I came off the mountain, he's like, dude, I signed up for this race. that's, Well I guess I'll see if I can make it and it just worked out so it's just
[00:05:39] Tayson: a time to go up and hang out with him and and then all so like if I don't have a good goal in mind and I tend to slack on training and I was I've been slacking on distance training. And so this was a good just opportunity to push myself a little bit through like December. Which It because I trained for it. I did not come into a very trained. I'll just say that. Well,
[00:06:00] Tyler: you know, it's gonna suck if someone wants a buddy bad enough that they sign their buddy up for him again. So
[00:06:08] Tayson: yeah, yeah, it's it's a brutal. It's a brutal thing, right? Because like most people like, why in the world would you want to do this, right? It's like just up and down a mountain. To see in the same thing all day long. I mean, it really is just a mental and physical grind, like from start to finish. You know, that's what you're signing up for. And so I think people have done Ultra marathons like you kind of get it like the benefits of it that or what you walk away from I guess at the end of it because I mean the middle of it you're you're not always enjoying it. In fact that's a majority
[00:06:40] Tayson: of the time you're you're not necessarily just quote unquote enjoying it. There's a lot more enjoyable things to do but the end result is really good in terms of just what you get to walk away with and take away from it. So can they have good snacks?
[00:06:53] Tyler: Like good aid station?
[00:06:54] Tayson: No aid station.
[00:06:56] Tyler: All right
[00:06:56] Tayson: we had we had Jack had his like you know car and we have like a little trip trailer and so we had like our own aid station set up right at the right by the finish line. So we just swinging in there and grab stuff but you know, for me I've learned what works really well for ultramarathons. And so I just eat pretty much the same thing but it was nice because I did. Add just a couple of things in. So mainly I'm drinking liquid calories is like number one and then, you know, eating quick calories, such as you know, more sugary type stuff, or bars and things but a lot of my calories to
[00:07:32] Tayson: come from liquid but at one point his buddy, Did bring us some McDonald's hamburgers and thankfully, they sounded good in the moment because sometimes in those efforts like, you look at something like there's no way. I could touch that and I've been at that place in Ultras before thankfully. I did. I did eat hamburger and that was actually went down really well and this was good. So there was a few luxuries like that. But for the most part, I was just following a very specific plan. Every lap, that's good.
[00:07:59] Tyler: I think, some of the ultra Aid stations can also almost be an obstacle in themselves because you, like, show up and there's Oreos and like pretty acidic food like spaghetti and pasta or like burritos. And if you're not like training with that food, you just don't know what you can get, you know. So that's but that's the thing about the Ultras is the up with like they try to have lunch at different options at aid station. So Spike Camp, sounds a little less comfortable. And that way.
[00:08:35] Tayson: Yeah, yeah. I think I think there is a lot of truth actually what you say because sometimes you could show up at aid station in an ultra and something looks good and you're just not thinking clearly because you're in the middle of an ultra and you just like grabs something and eat it and then that costing you because You're not thinking through the entire like, what will this do to me an hour? Or I've never run after eating spaghetti, you know, but now I'm doing exactly that and I'm in the middle of a race and so definitely sticking to a strategy, a plan, whether it's an ultra or whether it's a backpacking trip, I think
[00:09:08] Tayson: that there's a lot of value and sticking to a plan. Yeah. so, um,
Editor’s note: Spike Camp format, aid setup, food, liquid-calorie, and fueling comments describe Tayson’s January 2026 event and personal strategy. They are not a universal fueling plan or current event guidance.
[00:09:14] Tyler: What were the conditions like that day? It was January in Oregon.
[00:09:19] Tayson: Yes, yes. And it was really cold to start like I think I started wearing just a Nebo Windbreaker and then a sun hoodie. And I had some gloves on because my hands are what really get cold? And the Situation's and I was like, like, jackhammering like teeth chattering, like at the start taking all
[00:09:43] Tyler: tells us in the morning, be bold, start cold. And most of us don't start as cold as he does. But,
[00:09:49] Tayson: yeah, I tried to start really cool because I know, my like, my weakness is sweating. If I, if I start sweating too early and too much I will suffer, I can run way. Is cold outside. So I I like tried to lean into that, be like this. This is an advantage to have it this cold for me. So I just I ran in that but I was, I mean, I was multiple laps in before I felt like, I even heated up to like running temperatures, you know? Yeah, it was, I was that cold. And so I was probably a little bit extreme. But I think that morning, That morning. It was like this definitely in
[00:10:26] Tayson: the 30s. Might have even below that but it was like really close to freezing, but it's also higher humidity. And but then, at during the daytime, I definitely heated up, but like it was hot in the middle of the day. But not extreme like, probably
[00:10:41] Tyler: 60s. You know, what was the elevation
[00:10:44] Tayson: didn't really that hot, but when you're running, it's hot, when you're climbing, it's hot and you're a direct sunlight. Yeah, elevation wise, I think we started at about 500 feet in the top. Is it about
[00:10:52] Tyler: 1500? Okay, so
[00:10:53] Tayson: you're, you're average is about a 1,000 feet high. Yeah, which is an advantage to me, going down from from where we live at about
[00:11:00] Tyler: 6,000 feet, you should have found Cameron Hanes’s boulder. Carry it up. The first couple laps to warm up faster. He's cam. Haines is famous for carrying a
[00:11:12] Tayson: specific boulder up and down there. I think he actually like Said at his truck. At this point though. He doesn't let anyone take it. He doesn't leave it at the mountain anymore but I did I did see Cam and Rachel entrikin and got to talk with them for a little bit on the trail. They came in ran a couple laps but not include the boulder up. Yeah yeah I cared my big old Fat boulder up myself.
[00:11:38] Tyler: Yeah, so um, how prepared were you going into it? Like I mean wise
[00:11:45] Tayson: I was very, I would say, I was very underprepared, but all so I'm comparing my fitness. I'm always looking backwards at like the most fit, I've been so like how fit I was for my 100 Miler. I was definitely not anywhere in that ballpark. I tried to train, you know, through December, maybe the last week of November. I really started doing some training. So I got about a month and a half a training and most of that I was doing, maybe only like 15 miles of like running a week. I think I broke over 20 maybe once but I would say the big thing was I was trying to get in a lot of vertical
[00:12:24] Tayson: because I knew what the race was and I had enough experience. And like the first tools I did. Touch your Mountain, Ultra is where it was just a ton of vertical to know that running was likely not going to be the problem. It was climbing and descending.
[00:12:38] Tyler: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:39] Tayson: And so I was aiming, I had more like vertical goals, not mileage goals. And so I was ranging anywhere from 4,000 feet of climbing in the week up to Like my highest is probably 8,000 to 10,000 somewhere in that range. I was not doing that as much as I wanted to, but I was definitely taking the hit on just mileage in order to get vertical. But I also do a lot of this training on a treadmill, just with my schedule and things like that. So that was a little bit tougher. Massage, just locking my treadmill on like a 12% incline. And then, Doing a lot of the vertical that way training in the winter.
[00:13:18] Tayson: Just sucks too. We can't get as much
[00:13:20] Tyler: vertical here with snow and stuff but
[00:13:22] Tayson: yeah, yeah. That's definitely a factor. And then just just Scheduling with kids and life and work. And so like
[00:13:29] Tyler: sometimes you had a short window. Yeah, from you. That was like, you found out. You were doing the race and November and then the races in January, Okay? So, So coming in a little underprepared but you've got a big base of of Fitness. So you weren't really going into it cold turkey but try to keep one. What was your goals?
[00:13:52] Tayson: So, the year previous, my buddy, Jack had done. Oh man that's about I thought it was 12 laps but it might have been 11 laps. So he wanted to beat that number and my goal was just to run with Jack like just to match his Pace. Like it wasn't that I was gonna go there and set my own PR. It was that I was gonna try to just do as many laps I could with him, but Jack trains a lot. He, averaged last year, 35 miles a week for every week of the entire year. Whoa, yeah, he got a lot of time 1800 miles throughout the whole year or something like that. Like he had
[00:14:26] Tayson: like, he has like annual run goals, he's a bigger like crazy strong, dude, like heavy heavier, strong guy, but he loves to run and he runs a ton. And so yeah, my goal was just to Be fit enough, hopefully that I could keep up with him and he was wanting to get somewhere between like 12 or 14. Laps.
[00:14:44] Tyler: Okay, cool. well, um, you started at five in the morning, in the dark with headlamps freezing, cold, the rest of the day. Go going into the laps.
[00:14:59] Tayson: It was like it felt steeper than I thought it was going to, I would say that. Um, so that was really hard in terms of and then also the track that we started on had just had a loose gravel weight on it on the bottom half of it. So it's almost like you were like going in sand. Kind of like where you get that like backwards momentum. And so that was that definitely added to it all. But overall, like the first laps went pretty well. I mean I had never seen them out my nerve on the trail and so that's always weird to show up in the dark and start going up and down this
[00:15:30] Tayson: mountain. We kind of figured it out and start to realize like where the steepest parts are and where it levels off a little bit where it push where to back off per se but it was just crazy pretty. I got some really great pictures and stuff of the top where we were like above the clouds and you can look at a cross like the sunrise coming up above the clouds, covering the entire Valley there down, and kind of Eugene Oregon area. but again, it was like, I was just trying to match Jack's speed and we ended up being pretty well matched in terms of Like our pacing so it was nice. We just kind of
[00:16:09] Tayson: I just kind of fell into a rhythm with him and just kind of relied on like doing whatever he thought was necessary, speed wise and stuff but the more or less we needed we needed to be faster than one lap per hour. So that was kind of in the background and we started off doing laps and like the I don't know, probably 45 ish minute range. and then, You know, so it felt like, oh we're making the first the day, you know, you always get that like those big eyes like when you sit down to like, eat a big plate of food and you got those big eyes and I was gonna be easy. All
[00:16:43] Tayson: you all this type of thing, the forest is like we got there and we were doing these, like, whatever, 40 something minute laps. And we're like, ah, we're gonna get, you know, we're 14 laps, you know, easy and we're feeling great and we're being smart, because both of us have experience of like running too hard fast downhill and so, we're pacing ourselves on the downhills. Pretty well actually eating and drinking trying to eat and drink. Like I was, I'm all I have to be so meticulous at that. So I was I was trying to be on all those those fronts out of the gate and as the day went on like obviously. Crap happens and
[00:17:20] Tayson: you start slowing down. And Yeah, so so for me kind of to get into some of the takeaways I guess.
[00:17:29] Tayson: We were we went really well and around lap. He was lap eight. My buddy Jack was like, you know what? I'm gonna switch my shoes to actually just a road shoe instead of a trail shoe because I have more cushion. It's a newer shoe, there's more cushion in it. And I was like, oh, you're gonna do that? I'm gonna do that and so I switched for my faithful Hoka Speedgoat 6s. To what's called a Stinson 7 from Hoka. And go through there. Yep. Yep. If you're watching us on YouTube, you can see these two shoes in front of us. These are the Speedgoat 6s. These are what I've run, all of my
[00:18:05] Tayson: Ultras in as a speed goat. And maybe not my first one, but everything after that has been in Speedgoat 6s and I decided to switch to the Stinson 7, which is a, it's a, they call it a hybrid shoe. It's like kind of like a gravel road shoe versus a trail shoe. So still got really good grip on the bottom, but not quite as aggressive as a, as a true Trail Runner. But it's got a lot of cushion considered a high cushion shoe. It's unthinking. Well, I'm running down this mountain, I think climbing really well. And you know, like keeping up with Jack, just fine on the climbs. So what's like, why not add,
[00:18:41] Tayson: you know this shoe into the mix so that maybe on the downhills, I can run harder because downhills start to hurt more than uphills by the end of these days. So, I switched shoes. I started going you know again the about lap eight and like so you're kind of getting in the middle of the day and I was like, All this, like I didn't even think about it, but, like, we're going up the hill and I'm like, dude, I might be hitting my limit. Like you're, it seems like I'm working way harder than you right now on this climb. And we go a little bit further and he starts like pulling away from me and
[00:19:15] Tayson: I'm like, what the heck? So I'm like, pushing harder and I'm pushing harder and, you know, I'm pushing harder on this lap than any of the other laps and we get to the top and I'm like, no, I was weird. I'm like, I dude, I you know, so I started almost worrying like, hey, you know, we've done a lot of apps together if you end up wanting to go ahead. Like you know, just know, like it's been awesome to do this many laps, but We'll see where it takes us. We kind of all we both in you. That was an option at some point, we'd split off. But then I started coming down the trail
[00:19:42] Tayson: and I was like I was excited to turn and run down the mountain East. and I was like, I like tripped a couple times and I was like, stumble and and I was like, man, like I can't even tell that these are more cushiony, really, like it didn't, they didn't feel more cushiony in the moment, but I was definitely stumbling a bit so I'm not really getting the speed, so go down. I think too much about it. We stopped at the bottom we refuel and we head out a lap 2 and we're going up the seat part and he's just walking away from me on the, on the hill, like, just gapping me. And I'm
[00:20:13] Tayson: like, what is going on? So I called Jack, I say, hey, Just go, like, just go ahead. I doesn't? I, I clearly I'm not keeping up right now. This may be all that. I've got, like, I came in way undertrained and this is what I've got. So he does. So we get to a point and he he takes off and just starts marching away from me up the mountain and now that I was kind of solo. You're kind of free to think sometimes a little bit more clearly and so I get to the top and I start and I start coming down again and I Stumble again and I'm like you know what, I
[00:20:43] Tayson: don't think these shoes are helping me at all like they're not actually cushioning on the way downhill. And then as soon as I thought, I thought and come the thing about the second, I put these shoes on was when like my effort level, went up immensely and he started and like my buddy. Jack started pulling away from me and all these things started happening. And so I get to the bottom, I changing
[00:21:03] Tayson: my shoes back and so I got to the bottom. Changed my shoes. Back to the Hoka Speedgoat 6s. And took off on the next, the next lap. And the second I got to the climbs. My feet were just turning over faster. Turn it over easier. I was like I was just cruising again. and, I think it was probably that lap. I caught up to Jack and passed him like, like, after he'd like, gapped me by a long ways. It wasn't like, I just went back to matching his speed, I went like up another wrong. And so I was like, it was like instant light bulb immediate difference in effort perception and speed perception. And
[00:21:49] Tayson: risk because you were stumbling with the other one because then I when I got to the top after the first one, I'm like, dude, I just climbed like super solid like that great again. And I went to come down on my I'm running faster again on the downhill because because I'm more stable in these And so went on. I was able I was actually able to like and keep in mind when you're running an ultra. Like I said, we started in like the 40 minute window of of laps and then obviously jumps up to about 15 minutes a window. It goes from there. And so what's really cool about this race and the big takeaway
[00:22:26] Tayson: is rarely are you doing such a scientific? Yeah. Like control the controlled situation to switch shoes and know exactly how that affects you but luckily in this situation that's exactly what this was. So I know exactly like the weight of these shoes. The heights of these shoes, I know my lap times more or less and so, Yeah. Like I was able to I guess finish that and and And like come back and dissect it, which is what I want to get into a second. But to finish, I guess, the story of the event. I was able to pick it up because I went from thinking like, oh, You know, earlier in the day were like
[00:23:05] Tayson: all 14 and doesn't want to like, hey we just got a continued to do one lap an hour and we can we can do this. And then I had that shoot and I started to creep up and I'm like I don't think I'm getting 12 laps and So then it was like, okay let's get 10 and we'll see if we've got on 11th but when I switched back to the Speedgoat 6s things started to pick up so much that I'm like, okay like we got this again and I was able to sneak in 12 laps with like five minutes to go. So I thoroughly believe that if I had not switched shoes I either wouldn't
[00:23:38] Tayson: have started the 12th lap or I would have been you know, after the cutoff essentially Um see but yeah I ran the last four laps or whatever. It was three laps with the Speedgoat 6s and just worked my way right back in the groove and I was still climbing exceptional. I did slow down on the downhills, the downhills got really painful um but that's that wasn't a shoe problem. That is a like my my tibialis, my shin muscles get really tight and then that transfers up into even knee pain. And so that I would say that would really wasn't a shoe problem that was a training problem. That's just 12,000 feet of descending down a
[00:24:15] Tayson: steep, steep Mountain, it does, some does some damage but well,
[00:24:19] Tyler: that and You were. You were what 36 miles? Yeah.
[00:24:26] Tayson: So, just finish the whole thing. I was at 38 miles. Yeah.
[00:24:29] Tyler: So that's a lot of miles in a day.
[00:24:32] Tayson: So
[00:24:32] Tyler: you're gonna feel that no matter what,
[00:24:35] Tayson: yeah, yeah, you'll feel 38 miles but 30 miles is still nothing. I feel like compared to 12,000 feet of climbing and descent. Yeah. That's that's, that's a beating for sure. So, So yeah, great, great day, tons of fun.
[00:24:52] Tyler: Got your bolo tie,
[00:24:55] Tayson: got my got my, bolo tie it at the 10 laps snuck in the 12th lap. You know, it's probably one of the last guys to sneak in that last lap. Got 12 laps felt really solid about that and was a great day. It was just a fun day with, with Jack, just had a great time doing all that, but I definitely celebration or recovery dinner. What did we have
[00:25:17] Tyler: Were you tired? some times you just too tired and you're like, just hang out at the truck for too long, but dude, I am totally blanking, we We?
[00:25:32] Tayson: I think we've got Sushi. Yeah, we actually got all the way back to his house in order to Sushi. So now this
[00:25:37] Tyler: okay,
[00:25:38] Tayson: I was good. Um which is interesting, right? Like the rice and the meat and stuff like that is that's something I actually crave when running I've taken Sushi two ultra's during a race, it doesn't sound as he Sometimes as soon as I finish runs I'm like dude Sushi sounds amazing. But in a race I was not.
[00:26:02] Tyler: Yeah I mean after it makes sense because it's salty Savory you know it's
[00:26:08] Tayson: a some carbs, got some proteins. Yeah it's a good mix but but they're in like in the heat of it you had to open
[00:26:14] Tyler: a plastic baggie and you get this Slab.
Editor’s note: The 12 laps, roughly 38 miles, 12,000 feet of climbing and descent, pain, pace, and shoe-switch outcomes are Tayson’s individual January 2026 experience. They do not predict another person’s performance, injury risk, or recovery.
[00:26:17] Tayson: You're pulling out of a Ziploc. You're like that. Doesn't look as fresh. Yeah. It was so. Anyways. Um, but I but so after I wanted to come back and and today actually took some time to like really like break down more scientifically what happened? Because ever since then nothing, like we always knew that shoe weight. Made a big difference. This is the time I was a young kid. I knew this, I had a pair of big leather boots. That my, my parents bought me one time as a birthday present. And I thought they were the best boots ever. Like, they're like this name brand and stuff, but I didn't know any different. And every time
[00:26:53] Tayson: I wore those boots, I felt like I was walking in mud, and I didn't want to walk anywhere. I like was so I like because, like, again, I grew up, I grew up doing a lot of hunting and it's like, I didn't want to leave the car to hunt because it was like, dude, I don't want to walk anywhere in these things, but I didn't think about. I just thought that's how everyone felt. So I thought that it was a does
[00:27:11] Tyler: not hiking problem.
[00:27:12] Tayson: Yes, I thought it was a me Fitness problem that I couldn't hike. I didn't like the
[00:27:16] Tyler: hike
[00:27:16] Tayson: because of, like these big heavy shoes, anyways, like, and then we started to get into doing these bigger efforts. Backpacking. And I got in the trail runners, like, oh my goodness. Even going from a lightweight boot to a trail Runner. It was like, dude, I can just log miles like my feet, just keep going. Just keep going. I was equated to like if anyone's ever ridden a bike and you've got like big mud tires on a bike and you go to a street Tire Bike. It feels like with one petal, you go twice as far, and it's just kind of same thing. You put lightweight shoes on and just feels like Your feet can just
[00:27:47] Tayson: keep moving. Like you have like it's just, it's a weird experience when you have an opportunity to do that. So we always knew that that was a thing, but we never knew the extent of it. Like we kind of say, I think in the 100 Mile Challenge book, it's like we we claim that like, you know, an ounce on your feet is like five or 10 pounds on your back or something like that, over the course of the day. but those are all just kind of sayings versus a scientific approach. So wanted to take it a second to try to dissect this. So let's start, I guess with just the shoe differences and
[00:28:18] Tayson: then I'll talk about what it equated to out on
[00:28:20] Tayson: the trail. So the difference is in these shoes is the Stinson 7 is in, my size is 15 oz for one shoe. So it's almost a full pound for once you but 15 oz for one shoe versus the Hoka Speedgoat 6 and my size is 12.2 Oz. So that in and of itself is a 23% change in weight. But you're thinking about, it's like, oh, it's four ounces. What's the big deal? Or three three ounces of change? It doesn't seem like a huge deal when you just pick him up per se, but when you're picking it up and moving it and rotating and moving, and rotating all day, that really adds up. So, 23%
[00:28:59] Tayson: lighter. and then for us, he watching this Um I tried to look up the stack Heights that the Speedgoat 6s are they're hard, they're hard to tell because they're like they're no longer in production. Now they're on the Speedgoat 7s. Supposedly the stack height on, these is not that different. It's like it's like three or four millimeters different. So half a centimeter different let's just call it but when you just measure like the side of the shoe or this part of the shoe, it's a half an inch.
[00:29:26] Tyler: Yeah. At least yeah
[00:29:29] Tayson: I mean that one just disappears behind it
[00:29:31] Tyler: looks like Three quarters of an inch, or more different than high. So
[00:29:35] Tayson: yeah. Yeah. So Whatever the height difference is there is absolutely height difference and I would have sworn to you that like the Stinson is either longer or wider or something. But I was looking at this just before we started and like The soles of these shoes like they are the same width; they’re the same length, and so that’s just the feeling the feeling is that I'm wearing a much bigger wider longer shoe. And so like we already mentioned on the downhills, I went from feeling like super Nimble and like I could turn my feet really fast. And that's really important because when you're like jumping down things, you will only go as fast
[00:30:12] Tayson: as you feel like you can get your foot back out in front of you, right? You're gonna fall on your face, right? And so that equates to a lot of speed And Agility on the downhill, like I was just hiking in the Grand Canyon. Like, I could jump off the stuff and I just again I'm conscious of this because of this whole situation. And I feel like I could jump off the stuff and just like had so much confidence in getting my feet right where they needed to be to like land and kind of dance around some loose loose stuff on the ground and you get that and I think in a lower stack, height
[00:30:39] Tayson: shoe versus like a high cushion shoe. So shoe wise that's the difference is is 23. 23% lighter, you know so going from 15 oz to 12.2 Oz and what feels like about a half an inch taller. well, three ounces doesn't sound like
[00:30:54] Tyler: much, but then you put in the perspective of 20%, and that's, that's like a significant percentage but you still think of 20% as not being like, A huge game. You know what I mean until It's, I mean, it's tax season right now. So Like just imagine if you had no income tax.
[00:31:21] Tayson: Let's twenty percent, that's massive. Yeah, what 20. So we talked about right. Yeah, so yeah, totally but think about it, in terms of a backpack, let's say you're starting a trail with food water or loaded down and you're 20 pounds. 23% will put you at what like 24.5 pounds. That's four and a half pounds, more of weight. Considerable amount that is you putting two full liters of water back on your backpack. That is, you know, that that's that's a lot of gear you feel as much as your entire my entire like Sleep System, you know what I mean? My hand two pounds sleeping bag and Pad is almost the same weight as that percentage difference
[00:32:03] Tayson: in a backpack, right? So, and then when you factor in the fact that a foot traveling more than anything else. So if you were to look at like your backpack, it moves One Direction and pretty much a straight line, but a shoe, you know, it it's like One Direction and then it's up and back forward again and then back. And so there's up and down movement, there's like a ton more up and down movement, whereas a backpacks, like it's going straight up, the mountain. A shoe is going up. Six inches back down up, it's moving six inches. Every step that a backpack isn't, let's just say do have a lot more movement overall in a
[00:32:39] Tayson: shoe and in an equates to energy efforts. So
[00:32:42] Tyler: yeah, in Motorsports or or even in like mountain biking. A lot of people can relate to cycling the weight of your week, your wheels, your rim, and your tire matters, more than anything else, especially on a mountain bike because it's unsprung weight. It's it's the weight that is
[00:33:02] Tyler: in contact with the ground. And so every bit of feedback from the extra weight of In an extra heavy pair of tires. And rims is going to drastically affect, how how it rides and how you can perform on it. And so shoes are very similar in that sense. It's it's the wait times the movement essentially is the net effect of
[00:33:26] Tayson: it. Yeah, I mean, just think about that. She was going in a circular pattern, a backpack, is going in a straight line, right? So it's like they're doing twice the distance essentially so just it just adds up. Alright, so so does it
[00:33:38] Tyler: feel 20% worse?
[00:33:39] Tayson: Oh, if this one is 20% heavier. What did it feel like? It felt 20% heavier, it felt 20% harder to do the next client or even more. And and that's what I mean is like, when we started that next client, I was like redlining and I still wasn't even keeping up and I'm like, what? Like, I have been going to Toe with you. So it felt like we were on the same exact energy and effort level with Jack. Second, I have these shoes on. I am Huffing and puffing he's talking. I'm no longer talking. I'm pushing to keep up and I'm still not keeping up. I, you know, because like when you start falling behind
[00:34:15] Tayson: you, you quit talking because you need to just breathe And you're not worried about the conversation anymore, you're worried about the next years. You start like tunneling in. That's exactly what happened. So it I mean I felt that effort straight out of the gate. Um, and then this morning, I took the time to go back and because I use Strava and I track everything. You know, with the watch, I was able to go back and basically pinpoint when I was at the bottom and then when I got back to the bottom and so I went through each one of those and got like these times and what I was able to see is that my
[00:34:49] Tayson: worst time of the entire day was that lap, nine. So, that would have been. I think my second lap with the shoes was nine. And I was over an hour to do that lap. I was I was 60 Minutes, 60 minutes, 30 seconds. And keep in mind, like, when you're doing laps, you're always gonna get like your next lap is pretty much always gonna be slower than your last laugh. Like so, you're expecting that to build, right? And you can see that like my lap 5 was 50 minutes lap, 652 minutes, lap 756 minutes, and then it jumps up to the 60 Minute ones. So, I mean, my lap 7 was it 56 minutes? And
[00:35:28] Tayson: so you'd expect it to continue to rise up well it did but it rose up at an exponential amount. What was interesting is the second that I switched back to these shoes. I dropped five minutes off of my next lap time which is about 10 to 15%, like a better
[00:35:44] Tyler: than your Trend because you're yeah a lot of Prior was was a 17% increase.
[00:35:50] Tayson: Yeah. So dropping that five minutes is about a 10% increase, but when you factor in that, it should have gotten higher because of that exponential mileage and vertical factor, I would say, in my mind it's more equivalent to like a 15%. Gave um plus it felt easier that next lap it felt so much easier that I was like oh I can squeak this any get 12 laps today. It took me completely like swap that around because literally that lap that next lap 10 felt easier and was five minutes faster like that proceed. So did you have to look at
[00:36:27] Tyler: heart rate?
[00:36:28] Tayson: I didn't hurt today. Heart rate is tough for me. To have to put a lot of stock in but it would be interesting to go back and and see, there is a heart rate Factor.
[00:36:38] Tyler: Yeah.
[00:36:39] Tayson: Um, but even if I had a hurry factor, I always take those with a little bit more of a grain of salt because I feel like they can vary 10 to 20 beats per minute pretty easily. And that's probably what the difference would be.
[00:36:49] Tyler: I had to run the other night. Say that as a 220, there's no
[00:36:53] Tayson: tears. All the hustle. Tell me you have a heart attack. She know I was I was totally fine. Like I
[00:36:59] Tyler: I don't think. Yeah, I don't think I was more than 170.
[00:37:03] Tayson: Yeah, in order for me to get a good heart rate, I kind of have to make sure like that. My watch band is is tight like I like to spot. Check my heart rate on a watch more than I like to just constantly monitor it. If I look at it, usually I feel like it's off and I kind of hold it like against my wrist and then at a regulate and I trust that one but yeah. Um, so see I don't think that would have been quite as telling because if you're talking a 10% variance, I think the heart rate's have a 10% variance. But yeah, for me again. So I guess to to go
[00:37:34] Tayson: back to that. Whether you want to call this, a 10% increase or 15% increase or whatever it is to me, I view this as a 15 percent increase, but then when I factor in the other the other factors, you know, is it a 20% increase? Maybe, you know, I don't really know. But I do know that that statistically here or time wise it improved by 10% or more when I should have been falling off by another five or so percent. I mean, if I look at from lap 6 to lapse 7 on the same Trend I lost four minutes. Right, so if I average these, I was losing three minutes around so hypothetically I should
[00:38:10] Tayson: have been at 63 and a half. And it's, if I was on that same downward Trend. And instead, I went down five minutes. So that's more like an eight to eight and a half minute change, right? And so if you were to look at it in that sense, that would be
[00:38:27] Tyler: 603.5 /.
[00:38:31] Tayson: 55. Yeah, that's a 15.5% change. So let's just say it's a 15.5% change. Huge change, I felt better. I thought faster. I think I would have been faster, but at this point, my downhill speeds got really bad. My uphills were crushing still like, I feel like I was climbing the same, exact Pace pretty much all day. But my downhill speeds got really bad because my my knees and legs were my shins were just killing me. So there's just all these. There's there's a few factors in here but it's rare that I'm just doing a loop and a loop and I'm switching in shoes for two laps and I'm switching back. I'm gonna control. So my
[00:39:09] Tayson: my takeaway with this is Reducing your shoe weight has an exponential Factor on how you feel on trail. Yeah, I think I has an exponential Factor on stumbles Falls getting injured, the lighter, your shoe, and the more connected you feel with your shoe, the more those risks all go down. Now, if I am in a boot, I will stumble more often than when I'm in a trail runner is how I see it. Now, some situations, so, require a boot because maybe it's I'm not going on Main trails, and I want that extra ankle support. And so, you know, I'm giving away speed. Force stability and protection, but I think there's just no way around showing the
[00:39:51] Tayson: fact that like, how, that equates now, I still don't have, like, a way to be like, okay, well, you know, an outside on your foot is equivalent You this in your backpack but there's a clear correlation to me in terms of like I would rather wear this lighter weight shoe, and put five pounds in my backpack. Then I would the other way around, maybe it's the same way, maybe what it is. Like just like we talked about That 23% change here. I would say take that and at least do the same conversion in your backpack. If you take a shoe and and take 20% off of it, it would be the equivalent of my mind,
[00:40:26] Tayson: if taking 20% out of your back. Even though it's two ounces here versus Four pounds here. But it's it's it's it's it's massive. Like it was, it was It was it really, really shocked me that I like when that happened. And when that light bulb ding dong at the top of the mountain on that second climb and I started coming down it, like, I couldn't unsee it. It was just clear as day. The second that I switched that shoe because I mean, I didn't I that I needed to switch the shoe but it wasn't until next climb. That it was clear in terms of like the speed and then like I said you got the
[00:41:00] Tayson: the timers to show that. Yeah. Well I would say
Editor’s note: The Hoka Speedgoat 6 and Stinson 7 weights, stack-height observations, lap-time calculations, speed, effort, stability, and backpack-weight comparisons reflect the shoes, measurements, and event conditions discussed in April 2026. They are not current specifications or controlled laboratory findings.
[00:41:04] Tyler: I'd say a lot of people will be able to feel less than a 20% gain like like on a mountain bike. When I get on my bike versus my wife's bike, my, my bike, I spent more money on because I ride a whole lot, more than hers and like the difference in weight isn't that much. But man, I can feel it. I think, I think it's only a couple pounds, you know, but I can really feel that difference. And so I would say if there's a 20% game for anyone to make, you should try it and see how you feel, because the goal is always to feel better on trail. Feeling better means you can
[00:41:48] Tyler: either go further or you can be safer or you're less, you know, prone to injury. So, all of that is It's just worth paying attention to, you know, and and try and I actually just looked it up. Salomon Quest boot is probably the most popular hiking boot out there, you know, like over the last 10 years, it's known as a lightweight boot. Well, it's 21 Oz per
[00:42:16] Tayson: boot. So that's all, don't quit that to this, because that's probably a size 8. Like, yeah, I'm a size 11 and a half. So you gotta factor that in too because I think the Speedgoat 6 is supposed to be like nine ounces, but in a size, 11 and a half, I'm 12.2. There is a so so that like those are optimistic.
[00:42:35] Tyler: That's saying size nine.
[00:42:37] Tayson: Yeah, so my guess in the size 11.5. If its 22 oz, I said,
[00:42:41] Tyler: mm-hmm.
[00:42:41] Tayson: I I would have at least three to four ounces on that. So I'm about 25 oz compared to 12 out. So that's half half the
[00:42:47] Tyler: weight. Yeah exactly. And That's massive. So if if you've been Only wearing hiking boots this whole time. Trying a trail Runner, will feel awesome. and, and I think there's a lot to be said for, if you're if you're not just like go in from a, from a taller, mid boot to a trail runner for a big crazy hike, you're not gonna be real susceptible to injury and, and our take over the years is By running a trail Runner, you're strengthening your legs. You know, you're strengthening your ankles, your calves, your building stability. And as long as you don't, you know, like go into some crazy hike. Having never used trail Runners. It's not like its
[00:43:42] Tyler: The abnormally, dangerous, you know?
[00:43:45] Tayson: Yeah. I mean I I've taken trail runners on some pretty. Ridiculous Boot Country, loose Shelly stuff. And my ankles are never the weakness, but I think it's because I wear Trail Runners and I run into our Runners and I train intro runners. And then when I do need to go to a boot, I would say the boot I'm using now, the one that I have, which I don't know if I totally recommend this but I'm I've been using the Topo, it’s called the Traverse or something; it’s just a mid-high boot. I mean, it’s almost like a trail runner it's just a little bit more on it. And I have packed, I have packed
[00:44:22] Tayson: 100, plus pound backpacks, for 11, mi in the High Country, on some crappie Trail and then totally fine. And some of it was on n, o. And then totally fine, ankle wise, which I was concerned about. I wasn't sure because like I was, I thought, like, I was pushing the limits, I felt totally fine, but I think I come back to equating that too. Well, I train my ankles all year in trouble runners. So if you're
[00:44:46] Tyler: so I think a lot of people are like, well, when do you want to over a trail Runner, you know? And yeah, so my question for you would be, if you are rocking for exercise, rocking being your carrying a heavy weighted pack usually 50 pounds or. So if you're rocking the 50 pounds, are you teasing a trail Runner or
[00:45:13] Tayson: Personally, yeah, I still run trail runners, okay, but the two things that factor into me ever choosing a boot and usually, it's the combo, not just nicely one is, how much weight am I carrying. And what are the trail, how off-camber your feet are gonna be mainly? Am I leaving trails?
[00:45:30] Tyler: Yeah,
[00:45:30] Tayson: am I leaving trails when I go rucking? I am taking a 50-pound pack as like, exactly the way that I typically work with. But I'm staying on trails. It's not loose Shale, it's not side Hills, it's not off-camber. It's not round really rocks. It's some kind of an established Trail, some trails are better than others, but as long as I'm on a trail, even at the 50 pound pack, I'm running trail Runners if I was to go off the trail, I would put up on Yeah, me too. So those are, that's kind of my parameters. But yeah, I've been a 50 pound pack. I don't switch to
[00:46:04] Tyler: boot. Yep. And I have I have the Hoka I think they're called like the Kaha Sky boot. They're basically like
[00:46:14] Tayson: a trail Runners at the top.
[00:46:15] Tyler: Yeah, they're basically like a speed go with a boot height. And I have actually like, Running them. I don't remember why but I ended up running a few miles. The bear chasing this. Yeah, it was, it was on a trip and we were just trying to hurry, you know, for we ended up hurrying out and they were like fine to run in, which was funny. But as far as the boot goes, their insanely light, and I definitely feel when I put them on compared to my normal show Runners. Yeah. So
[00:46:49] Tayson: I'm I'm I don't know how to like, explain this but I'm so sold on it that like you can't you you will not like change my mind on the importance of weight on your feet. So, The question then. Is what what shoe should you choose, right? I don't know that I have the perfect answer, right? I know that this Speedgoat 6 worked really well for me and for me like you can go look up the the weights and the stack Heights and those kinds of things if you would like to. But I would say it's definitely on the lighter end of a trail Runner. But I would also say like something to note is this
[00:47:26] Tayson: is the height of the shoe. I think some people just go to a Max cushion shoe for whatever reason, but there are definitely trade-offs and I don't feel that the specs cushion, shoot is like, more cushiony, but I do kind of think that it's a, it's a trade-off, I guess, because it may last it may last or has like I don't even know which one of these would last longer because the thing about a lot of foam is once it does start to break down, it almost like it starts to break down faster because you probably ate one more You can get more role in an angle or you can get, you can get more
[00:47:59] Tayson: off-camber in it. And so I don't know where I was gonna say is like, oh, maybe get more life out of a taller shoot. I don't think he'd do. I don't think you do, either? Because most of the
[00:48:10] Tyler: time on the high cushion shoes, that that we have, like I've run the Hoka High cushion ones and the ultra ones. And be when they're trying to make them more High cushion, they end up cutting a lot more of the stiffer rubber out of the sole. And then it it's that makes it more compliant, but it also makes it less durable I would say. Yeah. Like in my experience of this, the three different models of Hokas of used this beat goats were the most durable and they have the most rubber on the bottom. Well, the problem with the high cushion is like, if you walk on the outside of your feet,
[00:48:45] Tayson: let's say or the inside. Once this starts to break down quite it has more to roll so he can kind of do more damage or something like to yourself by by trying to make a high cushion shoot last too long. The hikers should technically be more comfortable for that impact but I don't I guess I just don't. It changed my mind a little bit on high cushion. This is the first high-cushion shoe I’ve ever had; it’s probably gonna be the only high-cushion shoe. I'll ever have everything else. I'll probably keep more in the Middle Ground.
Editor’s note: Boot, ankle-support, off-trail, heavy-load, trail-runner, cushioning, foam, durability, and injury comments reflect Tayson’s and Tyler’s individual experience. Fit, support, adaptation, terrain, load, and medical history vary by person.
[00:49:17] Tayson: I don't you can go minimalists to like a low cushion shoe. If you were training a lot you could probably you can work your way into a shoe like that, I think, but I don't think it's super visible for someone who's not putting a lot of time on feet and building that foot strength. And so this kind of been my shoes. So lightweight overall, like lighter, the trail Runner, the better. you know, traction really matters and like how Nimble the Shoe is I think those are definitely factors.
[00:49:46] Tyler: Just know Gore-Tex is gonna add weight
[00:49:49] Tayson: but it really it adds heat in the heat creates blisters. So we pretty much never run the Gore-Tex, you know, something? I actually just realized too is I probably need to wash these out. These probably have sand and dirt in them Sloan. I was walking in a river about the Grand Canyon that feeds into the Grand Canyon for miles and and like, walking through a bunch of sand and, you know, so this might be honestly packed full of like Santa's or something. That I'm not even aware of but um yeah, take that for what it's worth. This is just meant to be a data point for you to really consider I know that like sometimes
