[00:00] Tayson: Everybody welcome back to the live. Ultralight podcast powered by Outdoor Vitals. Today, we've got well, brand new person to the microphone I believe as we're talking about our recent trip to Coyote Gulch so inside this podcast, we just want to give you some overviews of What? Coyote Gulch is some do's and don'ts of doing that trip. It is a phenomenal bucket list. Level trip. Here in Utah and we'll talk about what we were doing on the trip and just some some fun that we had for sure. We'll talk specifically about some Footwear, Chacos versus Trail Runners versus Trail Walkers and all those kinds of conversations. So, it'll be a fun one for sure. But let's, let's dive in, let's introduce the people here. We got Tyler on the podcast. You guys are familiar with him. But we've all got Luis on the podcast. So maybe tell us really quick a little bit about yourself and what you for OV and yeah, those are first time so sweet. Awesome. Yeah. No,
[00:53] Luis: super excited to be here. I am the warehouse foreman here Outdoor Vitals. So handle some of the shipping, some of the returns different things like that, full mechanic
[01:05] Tayson: of oh yeah Machinery apparently had
[01:08] Luis: to take off the box tape machine that we used to take boxes so a little bit of everything around here but yeah. So that's what I do for OV. I guess personal life I really like climbing and hiking and backpacking and fishing and cycling. Basically if it's outside and gets me dirty, then I like it. So, Yeah. Also also Chaco fan just so we can get started with that conversation but
[01:35] Tyler: if you were wondering
[01:36] Tayson: if you have an opinion in the Chaco sandals versus Trail Runners, but it is coming because Luis is a big Chaco fan. Luis, calls them trail walkers Trail walkers,
[01:48] Tyler: Hey, if you're running.
[01:50] Tayson: You're not running their walkers. So,
[01:52] Tyler: um, no.
[01:54] Tayson: We had, we had some fun down in the canyon about that. But let's, let's digest start at the top here with just kind of eagles, but thanks for coming on Luis. You're awesome. Didn't even with this since when did roughly, when did you start last fall?
[02:07] Luis: Yeah, August
[02:08] Tayson: the last year. So, yeah, before we know it. So awesome to have you finally on the Pod but and we'll have you in and upcoming videos as well from from this trip or on the YouTube channel side. But all right, so let's talk about what is Coyote Gulch? And some of the trip planning Tyler you did most of the trip planning on it but high level overview. Coyote Gulch is a it's technically most people considered a slot canyon but it is a very big wide Canyon compared to like when anything about your hands. You know, you got Cliff faces on all sides that are ranging from like 400 to 800 I believe was the number I saw. Her feet high. So just massive vertical walls and it's very long Canyon. We hiked from kind of the top Coyote Gulch all the way down. It's probably about 10 miles of like the canyon itself plus or minus.
[03:04] Tyler: Yeah the Canyons actually longer but we started a hurricane wash. Right? So we we cut into the canyon. At the good spot like if you go further Upstream of Coyote Gulch from where we dumped in, it's a lot more Bush whacking and and things like that. So, but yeah. All together the actual Coyote Gulch wash is like I said 12 ish miles long but the way we did it was Hurricane wash which is like three and a half miles to get into Coyote Gulch and then it was about four miles to Jacob Hamblin Arch, which is like one in the most Classic photos. You see, when you pull up Coyote Gulch
[03:57] Tayson: Yeah, really pretty. Really for graphic and he's like I took a photo there that Looking Back Now. Like, that was so good. Yeah. Um, yeah. So the goal is to go in there and spend two nights as a team. We ended up bringing five, six of us, you know, Canyon. So just some some high-level thoughts for me because Surprising. This was my first trip in a Coyote Gulch. It's been one of those things that's like, always been on the to-do list every year and so now hasn't happened But a lot of these areas where it's so well. Known I think there's this stigma like you have to have permits and it's super hard to find spots and all this kind of stuff. So I was pretty happy to know that this place does not require permits and we were able to find a camp spot pretty well. Some canyons that go on like this is just like there's only two spots to camp in the canyon and they're gonna get loaded up and it wasn't that way. But a couple things that know about the place. Besides the fact that you, you know, you fill out your own permit out the trailhead. When there is some places to stay and this is wag bag territory, you're in Glen, Canyon National Recreation Area. So there is that side of things and then this is the desert. So like it is in the middle of nowhere, you need a car that can go on a road for about 30 miles of washboards. So they're gonna go really slow or if you've got like a truck or something a little bit bigger tires and better suspension, you will be very, very happy that you have that on that road, but other than that, in terms of just planning the trip, this is near Escalante Utah. So, if you look that up, you can find it. But it's kind of middle nowhere. Far From Any airport or from just about anything. So the approach to it is pretty hard, but again, one of the most Beautiful canes I've ever been in and we are meeting people from all over. We actually met some customers in there. So you want 100 miles, participants, and some people from Iowa that came all the way out, just to do this. I mean, so you can see like people are coming from all over to come into this. This particular Canyon, but as far as Logistics, go like, that are going to be valuable for you guys. If you ever have this on your list, what other things? We kind of missing Tyler in terms of trip planning.
[06:04] Tyler: Well, excuse me, the way that The way that I planned, it was to spend less time driving on the Hole-in-the-Rock Road because that road is terrible for us to go. Those 30 miles to the Hurricane Wash Trailhead is like an hour. 20 minutes if you're here. Yeah, if you are babying your vehicle, it could be easily. Take two hours. So about I'll never be the same. Yeah. Yeah, doing that. So, I chose one of the trailheads that is less mileage down that road, but, that means that we had more hiking in the dry desert to get there, but we're typically not afraid of some extra miles. So the way that we plan it was we would drive out there, get out there midday. And then first day, we would hike seven miles to Jacob Hamblin Arch. And then we would Camp right around the arch area of camped down there in that exact spot and it's gorgeous. But it's all. So, one of the most popular spots in there, And then day two, our plan was to hike seven, more miles to Stevens Arch, which is right where the Escalante River meets Coyote Gulch at a bigger Confluence. And that's a really cool spot. And we were hoping to be there by lunchtime. Eat lunch there, hike back, the seven miles camp at the same spot, and then day three hike. The seven miles back out to the van. So it was an out and back the way that we did it. It was seven miles for the first half day. 14 miles, second day, seven miles for the second half the last half day and then we had to go get pizza at Escalante Outfitters afterwards and then drive home. So that was like our plan. It's not. crazy strenuous miles in the sense of there's not much elevation gain and and Descent but you are walking in water often and you are crossing the streams often and so that you're going to gravel and sand a lot which just yeah
[08:28] Tayson: absorbs your output you know? Like you're kind of makes you feel like you're walking uphill almost if that makes sense, in terms of like the amount of effort on the body it takes.
[08:36] Tyler: Yeah. And you are going like up and down the river bank
[08:39] Tayson: so that Riverbank up and over rocks a little bit, nothing like technical climbing wise. So like, if you're someone who's like, oh, I hate, can you hearing stuff like that? Like, there's really hard down climbing, no ropes required. But yeah, I mean, it's like, Canyon is definitely take it out of you in different ways. So, Okay. So that's kind of the overview day one. We get in there, maybe a little bit behind schedule and we have a few videos that we want to film in here. One of, which was Like is this a scenario when Chacos like taking a pair of sandals because really walking and water? And he's kind of conditions is that shoe Choice going to be preferable to or try to tell Trail Runners. So, Kind of set the stage I guess with, with that. So Luis offered up to be the Chaco guy. He's the only guy in the office that has Chacos, although I did get a pair of Tevas
[09:38] Tyler: now and Derek has to use, but Reese, had he brought some all that's right. He had him down there and we didn't even know we sit on where. Yeah he didn't even put them on once but
[09:49] Tayson: but yeah, Luis offered to do that and so, We get in there, we're hiking the first part of that. It was pretty dang hot like exposed, right? That first like three, four miles. So that was pretty hot, pretty dry but we got into the canyon and starts to cool off when you're down around that stream a little bit and you get more Shadows of the day coming in. But yeah, I mean the first portion was good and as we got deeper and got into Jacob Hamblin Arch, I think that was kind of, where is like, oh my gosh, this place is incredible. They can't even walls are starting to climb up to. You know, I don't know, I guess 400 to 500 feet, you know, and then you see this big, beautiful Arch, just a really amazing way to kind of and like the tail end of the day at least
[10:32] Tyler: not only the arch, but the walls are so overhang right, like their Dome out to the point that sometimes you're 50 to 100 feet under the overhang walking, you know, just down the stream, which is really crazy effect.
[10:48] Tayson: Yeah, we had a lot of fun jumping over the river. You know, as we went along, Luis just hammered through it. But eventually I think we all got our feet wet which is to be expected. I would say in this area you can get by pretty well with Stepping Over The Creek at times. But eventually we all have wet feet before we got to camp. We ended up thinking we would Camp right at the arch but we ended up going a little bit further and found a really great Camp spot. Lots of space. Really nice like beachy fine sand like you've never been out to Utah Lake Powell or like near Zion. It's hard to describe the sand. That's here. It's not coarse, not rough. It's a very fine kind of orangish reddish sand and so our we said our camp up just on the riverbank essentially with four or 500 foot vertical walls right behind us. So it's really pretty spot to place camp. Um, any calls I guess for from day one? Well, I guess one call out is that we was pretty confident that his Chacos were the best choice. How did that one go?
[11:55] Luis: I mean, it was interesting to say the least.
[12:01] Tyler: Surprising. Is
[12:02] Luis: that it was surprising in the sense that like we spoke before the trip and I would wear my Chacos everywhere. You know when I was guiding people in Zion, I did the Narrows multiple times Angels Landing. I mean multiple different hikes that you know take it out of you in Chacos and sandals, never had any issues or anything like that. And then this trip comes along. And seven miles in, you know, after we, after we get to the arch, I start feeling some discomfort on my foot and like, what's, what's going on? So I take off my my sandal and there's this like huge and a half blister on the ball of my foot and it's like red, like there's like mixed with blood or something like oh boy, like I'm in for a trip. For sure. So I I think, I think the first day was was good in the sense that like it wasn't hurting that bad, but it was very surprising to see what like the make sure of like, Being outside of the river and getting the sandals full of sand and then getting back into the river and then kind of like, washing everything away and that constant change. I think it's kind of what just created this sandpaper effect on my feet and just
[13:16] Tyler: kill them. Were you mad at me? No, yeah, no, we were not yet, at least, I wasn't mad yet. Know, when we got out of the van, he had his Trail Runners hanging off the back of his pack, and his pack was already looking pretty. Dang full for how long we were going? And I said something like, well, Are you not confident in the? Chacos like, why are you bringing both? And he's like so well I wanted to have both in case someone else wanted to switch or try something out and I was like, man, just pack what you want for you and if you think you can do it in the chocolates, just take that. So he left his Trail runners in the van. And yeah, that was Wednesday morning. Anyways, like on day one, it's probably know just cuz we were just moving and we just wanted to get to Camp. But
[14:11] Luis: yeah, I think it would have made the rest of the trip more enjoyable. Like once I already have a blisters and stuff, but definitely like, like I said, like we call to the arch and that's when I found out about the blisters and they were like, big enough to be like, well, this already messed us up the whole The whole walk-in check scenario. So it was it was too late anyway at that point but it definitely, definitely a surprise.
[14:35] Tyler: Yeah,
[14:35] Tayson: yes, we got to Camp that night. Hung out, had dinner plate, some hacky sack of all things, which got pretty intense, and there was a lot of fun. I don't think I've played that since I was in high school or younger. I don't even know. Well, we can't ever kick it around. We have to play the
[14:53] Tyler: Stinger rules or whatever it is, right? Hit a three times and check it at each other.
[14:57] Tayson: Yeah, so I was a good time but for example I you cleaned off your blister and Leukotape on, you know, you had some Moleskine or like now Leukotape is the answer. We've put Leukotape on a foot, it lasts weeks, not hours, not days like that's been our experience with Leukotape. So he taped you're gonna be fine tomorrow, like maybe even pre-taped the other foot if you're worried about it, but you're going to be just fine. Go to bed sleeping. I'm just pretty warm. Lots of lots of noise in the canyon. I was saying, yeah, the frogs we were catching and all sorts of things, but really great temperature. Really nice time to be in there. We were in there again in May here. So, And then and I had, man, I woke up in a section outside of my tent and like a little cubby where they got tucked away on animation, nine to ten large like, Daddy, Long Leg. Looking spiders, just hanging out in there, which is Just kind of cracked me up but one of the reasons I don't cowboy camp I prefer that they stay on the outside of my tent and I stay on the inside of my tent. People ask me that all the time and I have had more issues. Cowboy camping in the desert, than in the high mountain. Oh
[16:12] Tyler: yeah, for sure. Yeah,
[16:13] Tayson: I will, I will consider a cowboy camping in the high mountains. Especially in the later season, I'll do like floorless shelters in the late season when I know the bugs are all dead. But as much for anything, I don't care what can because of the bugs and spiders and scorpions and all that stuff. So yeah,
[16:27] Tyler: like waking up with the Scorpions.
[16:29] Tayson: Yeah, even right. Next up because I pulled my tent up that night. I had two massive hairy caterpillars under my pad spot like there must have one of the Heat or something under my pad. They are under my tent and just I got, yeah. I like having a nice barrier between me and the
[16:46] Luis: critters. So, that's something that I think is kind of gnarly about, like, camping the desert. That a lot of people think that everything's dead, like you'll find some reptiles here in the air, but like, when you get close to the water in the desert, it's just packed with life. You know, like specially in those law Canyons. I mean, at night time you could hear the the frogs and I think, like the Reverb from the cane walls. I made it seem like they were all around, you
[17:10] Tyler: just got bouncing. Oh there.
[17:14] Luis: Yeah,
[17:14] Tayson: that's for sure. Birds coming in Illinois, just all that. But okay, so the next day, most of these guys kind of left their tents standing in place left their sleep systems and so we were going a lot lighter and which is good because we can go a little bit faster and stuff. We left, everything broke campus, started hiking down. It might have been more like 8:39 by the time. We actually like, got out of Camp me. Know, we tried to be as a 30, I think. Yeah. Blues is all taped up. Ready for the day. I actually was testing wearing, I mean, you've seen me on videos. I'm always wearing an altitude hoodie for the most part, but I wanted to test wearing a cotton t-shirt and so I was I was something new for me, but hit the trail things are going pretty good. It's again, just stunning like massive Canyon walls like you Just going curve after curve. After curving this came like hours of hiking where it's just like. Every view is just as good if not better than the last one. Like it just so beautiful. Massive Steed. Can't you know vertical Canyon walls overhanging and can you walls some areas were Waters coming in? You know, like shower bath looking and faucets and huge arches. Huge arches and arches. Oh yes.
[18:34] Tyler: Well that we've got like so from Jacob Hamblin Arch, which is like a that Arch is as good as any arch in Arches National Park, like, as far as the size and the height and, and all of that. It's ridiculous. But then the next Arch we get to looks like it's just a hole in the canyon wall. It's much lower and smaller. And that one is called coyote natural land bridge, so that one has like a lot of rock above it. And so we started looking up and
[19:09] Tayson: good.
[19:13] Tyler: well, we went through coyote natural land bridge early in the morning and we Ood and odd and talked about it and It was cool right there. You walk right through it, walk right through the only way, that's the only way to go anywhere is to walk through it. But then We would see other arches. Pressed into the canyon walls and in Zion, they call those arches but by Luis's definition and I second that house rules is what they are calling it. Those are narces, not an arch. So we were counting things in Archer. If you call everyone of those, an
[19:56] Tayson: arch then like everywhere you look there are arches.
[19:59] Tyler: Yeah,
[20:00] Luis: like if you if you cannot see light through it.
[20:02] Tayson: Yeah,
[20:03] Luis: then it's not an arch.
[20:04] Tayson: It's not, it's an arch.
[20:06] Luis: Yes, it was not an arch, which these
[20:08] Tayson: guys are calling an arch.
[20:09] Tyler: Yeah. Well, in Zion the biggest Arch name design art does not pass through, so apparently, it's an arch. So
[20:18] Tayson: I'm gonna look this up service,
[20:21] Tyler: we started Counting arches and narces. And then we started measuring and classifying arches and
[20:30] Tayson: Grand March.
[20:31] Tyler: Yeah. So there is Orange is, those were over a hundred yards wide. I can't remember all the other definitions but there's a lot to look at down there and there's a lot that you'll miss because on our way back Luis. Found the most amazing Arch. That. How did he, how did he say it? Like we did
[20:57] Tayson: you guys see that Arch? I like walked right underneath that Arch. It was so cool. Like, I I
[21:03] Tyler: mean, Dad, did you guys see it? This time? And we're like, yeah, we went through it on the way down. That is coyote natural land bridge and he's like what we went through that on the way down. It was, it was he was I
[21:20] Luis: honestly don't know what I was looking at because I thought there and you know, those
[21:25] Tayson: moments on the wrong trail, he like what you were like, I don't think this is the way.
[21:30] Luis: Well, I had my Garmin back on like, like, return to the starting point. So I wouldn't get lost. And I just kept looking down. I was like, there's no way past this Without seeing it. And it was it was one of those like almost like religious moments where I saw it and I was like, this is so beautiful, like it's amazing and Then everybody had seen it
[21:51] Tyler: and apparently I had seen it too. You're just popping a scroll while you're going through. Yeah that's the first time.
[21:59] Tayson: Oh my God
[22:00] Tyler: she's watching your same 15 tick tocks.
[22:02] Luis: I was probably just looking on my feet are like my blisters. Yeah. Like it between the feet and there was someone camped right
[22:08] Tayson: there and you're such a people person that would be just like surprised if you were looking at him waving at him.
[22:14] Luis: I was saying hi to everybody that were passing so maybe
[22:16] Tayson: I just had was part of why you Didn't see it but that is yep. Also quite I don't know how you. Yeah. I don't know how I missed it but why. So we probably talked a little bit about this though. Like, How did your feet do that day? At one point we ended up separating Let's talk about that.
[22:37] Luis: Yeah. So so, like you said, then night before, We taped up my feet. Um, when
[22:44] Tayson: we promised you Leukotape was the answer, right? Let's solve all of your problems.
[22:47] Luis: Yeah, exactly. And I had never tried it before. So I was kind of like, you know, I have seen videos on YouTube of, like, people trail running and taping their feet with that stuff. I was like, oh, that stuff is gnarly like for sure it's gonna work. So um we ended up popping my blisters and I remember I even brought soap, it sounds like this is perfect. So I washed my feet with soap, I let him dry like they were Clean. We taped them up start hiking and I think it was a good like five miles into the second day. Where like you were to look up, tape starts falling off. and it was, it was like Come gnarly because I was like, what's going on? Like, this stuff is supposed to stay on. I mean in the morning before, getting in the water and stuff, it was on there. You know, they didn't have any issues with it but then I think it was that same sandpaper effect of like getting in the water and then collecting a bunch of sand in between my feet and the sandal and then getting the water. Again, that constant cycle. Just tears through the tape. So I think I think that was kind of a wake up for us too. In terms of
[23:47] Tayson: like Leukotape is, is really impressive stuff, but I've only ever used it inside of a sock inside of a shoe. And so it's holding its structure more. It's being pushed up against your foot more, and I'm trying to think if I used it like in and out of water or not, I feel like I definitely used it in a lot of like, rain or trying to think if it's been like in a river or back out of a river. But yeah, I mean, I was surprised but I was like, I guess Have any experience using it like on a Barefoot with no sock and a sandal and it in the water in the amount of water, right? And it did not hold on to your foot which then caused you to add more blisters into your feet and so that it just became like a bad thing. Was like, man. Yeah, back to camp and you gotta hike out the next day. Maybe this is. The we have yet continue on with us so right, we did end up separating and we didn't really say this before. I don't know if I should say now but you were so close to the Confluence. You are so close?
[24:44] Luis: No joke. Like when we separated we were estimating that it was gonna be another two miles. So I was like well another two miles in that. That's a lot that's all and and I had to retake my feet at that point so I was like, no well we'll just stop right here. Take care of my feet. While I was after I finished patching myself up and and before I headed back to Camp I had lunch and I was looking out my map. And I was like, man, it's right there. Like, like I was looking at where the rivers meet and I was like, I should just gone, but you know, it was one of those things that
[25:20] Tayson: Try to do whatever reason to go back in there and get all the way to the other Arch, right? We go Chargers that. Again, the Steven
[25:27] Tyler: Steven Tyler. Yeah, so Steven Arch was super high up on I think Caden looked it up. I think those walls where you hit. The Escalante River is are actually like seven to 800 feet tall. Mmm, they're really, really high tall Sandstone walls. It's really impressive. Arches itself is like 100 feet across at least
[25:50] Tayson: and probably 50 feet higher. Yeah, it's a big old opening but just a thing I looks like a portal like a special thing of blue background. Just looks like a portal in the wall. Just, it was, it was really cool and we, we just popped out on a sandbar and had our lunch baked in the sun bake.
[26:06] Tyler: No shade. Oh
[26:07] Luis: boy here
[26:08] Tayson: and really find a good spot for Shades. So he just were, like, I was right next to the river and do that. So, That was good. Soaked out my cotton t-shirt. Start hiking in that. See how that was gonna do in terms of drying and then headed back up River but there was on our way down we did pick out a water hole that were like man in middle of the day that might be a nice place to for at least one of us to hop in and I'm not, you know, for me I was trying to like do this kind of some tests back and forth test between like hiking in a cotton shirt versus hiking and polyester piece like the altitude. And so I was like, I'll probably have to like jump in that on the way back but on the way back we stopped and filmed a little bit of something and just showcasing how quickly the cotton was drying versus the altitude. And these guys got ahead of us. By the time I got to the Waterhole, these guys are already in swimming. You know, floating around having a good time. So we all piled in there, minus Luis, he was ahead of us tricking away. And hung out for. I don't know, like 20 minutes or 30 minutes just It was really enjoyable. So I was really impressed with the water. Was it wasn't warm, but it wasn't so cold. She couldn't sit in it a long time.
[27:18] Tyler: Yeah, we thought it was a spot. You could maybe cliff dive. But we had run into someone who had either. Just really sprang their ankle or possibly broken in jumping into that spot. So we decided not to Do this jumps?
[27:34] Luis: That's kind of funny because when I was hiking back there were a bunch of people with other shirts on, and they were like getting ready to jump into that hole and I didn't stop and watching because I was like, I don't know me, it's gonna be creepy from watching them
[27:45] Tyler: the water hole, but but yeah, it's gonna like you probably could have jumped into it. I kind of checked as we swim
[27:51] Tayson: around. There wasn't really rocks down below it, but you would, if you jumped in expecting to not hit the bottom at all, you get her, you would get hurt if you like, oh, it is only five and a half feet deep, you could, you know, take some of the pressure off and land on your feet but you're still like, gotta take her to be landing hard. So, yeah, like I had gotten injured and we we didn't talk to him. He talked to another group that was him and one of my past him, he was definitely limping along pretty slow. So, definitely always always check where you're jumping off and be careful with that. But, so, all is great. It was, um, It was a long day like 14 15 miles in that. Canyon is just it's never a joke. Even without like all of our gear and all of our stuff it's it was still a pretty long day but but it was enjoyable we got back to camp. Around probably 4:30 to 5 ish. So most the day was spent but it definitely like we had more time to hang out and Camp still, which was really enjoyable. So I don't know. I mean, I just thought the whole day was awesome. Yeah.
[28:56] Tyler: There's nothing like it getting back to camp and just Having a beach at Camp. Take
[29:02] Tayson: all this just took all of our shoes off. Walk around Barefoot. Yep,
[29:05] Tyler: yep. I mean, that's, that's kind of what you have to do when because all the rest of us were wearing essentially, Darn Tough socks, and Trail Runners of some sort. And when you're hiking in the water for that many miles in those shoes, they're just totally saturated. So we all wanted to let Our feet out let him dry out and hang up the shoes and socks and let them dry me and Jason were able to get ours to dry overnight both nights, I think. Yeah, those guys who didn't hang him up. Didn't get them dry. But Yeah. That's I mean, no matter how you do it. There's gonna be some discomfort hiking down in there because you just in and out of the water so much. And even with the trail Runners, they let a lot of sand in through, like, just the toe Vents and the
[29:58] Tayson: mesh and all that. So and I mean, we learned too, right? So, pretty much everyone was in trail Runners. I wore a trail Runners the first day the next day because I needed to have a secret weapon, I brought out my gaiters, you know, so the good things that go around the top of trail running gaiters for running gears, they're just lightweight, kind of mesh and I put those on and did hiking the next day and it significantly reduced the amount of Sandy in my shoes. So there's definitely a lot of like sand that just comes over the side or gets in you know basically from the top of the shoe her foot would enter the shoe as well as down in the mesh. So that is definitely something to know. What kind of finished talking about the Chacos here, but I guess for my my perspective, like, what is the ideal Footwear situation? I do think Chargers work really, really well. I don't say it's the best, but it is probably most people's best option unless you buy a distinct piece of Footwear for this Expedition, the Gators are a nice touch. When I, well, I guess I'll save my very last comments for like, the last day. But on day two, they were absolutely money because we were hiking a lot on the water in, and out of water in and out of sand in and out of these places. And I got a fraction of the amount of sand. I did the day before and a lot less sand. On these other guys were getting on their shoes. All that day by feasting cool because we're running out of water so like he wasn't an issue for me. Overall is a good pairing for that day. Okay, so that's Camp. Hung out, met up with you Luis. Had dinner and played more hacky. Sack of all things. Had a really just good time. It was just super pretty. We all brought our camp chairs because we were doing. I was just saying that's a different podcast. But usually for me it's like if I'm doing more than 10 miles so I won't bring a chair. If I'm a less than 10 miles a day, I'll bring a chair and everyone was pretty much on that same wavelength. So most of us had chairs in their lounge around on the beach and out and it was it was super enjoyable. Next day is our day to get out of the canyon. So we're gonna repeat day one and reverse and do about seven miles to go out of the canyon and we didn't rush like it was just so pretty coming out. We stopped and took a lot of photos. um, and took like there's one r or there's one overhang that's really that's Just right there at Jacob. Hamlin Arch that, like, Tyler is saying you're probably a hundred feet underneath an overhang. It does not feel like it out because the canyon wall is 500 feet tall but just just some really cool stuff like that. That we spent our time coming out looking at taking pictures of and then the last stretch was going to be that last, you know, three or so miles. That's slightly uphill, slightly Gravelly, Sandy, you know, and just totally exposed For this day though, we decided to make something up because that night is your singing, a camp. I had talked to my, you know, the only people are really high like big big Mi days with had chosen on. They were all using socks and you mentioned like, oh I can't use socks because I have this toe strap on a Choco and I was true. The person I was hiking with it that had that was using toe socks but we took your sandals, I took him out of the river and I was, I was able to unjam the straps that were totally jammed up because the essentially the strapping goes underneath your foot through between two years of rubber. Second manner, got that. So then we were able to essentially flattened the toe strap and then you're able to slightly, tighten everything else up around your foot, even more securely in a way but you were able to wear socks. Yeah. On the last day.
[33:35] Luis: Yeah, it was great. Mmm.
[33:36] Tayson: So Yeah, so we did. I think we look at you. Look at me again.
[33:41] Luis: Yep. So I look up tape beforehand and then I put the socks on. And then with a check goes like without a toe strap. It was it was great. Like it was super enjoyable. Personally, I think that that would have been the way to go and starting, I think like even without pre-local tape in my feet just Chacos and and socks.
[33:59] Tayson: Yeah,
[33:59] Tyler: would have been would have been made to go. I
[34:01] Tayson: really wish to that. We had tried to get your straps to adjust on day one because I think you have more slop in the straps. Then like I think if we had had those nice and tight against your feet from being on a little bit tighter, I do wonder, what would have happened?
[34:18] Luis: Would have made a difference. Yeah. And here's another thing to know about Chacos and I'm not 100% sure if they still do it or not, but they do not have half sizes. And that. So when you have a 10 then, so when I first bought him, that's another thing to know. I've met a lot of people that were tackles and you see their toes and they're like, oh the edge of the sandal and I don't like that because I have like pretty long toes and you know On hiking. I don't want to be kicking stuff around, but I think going with a bigger tackle definitely play a part in to kind of like Scooping. Some of that sand putting it right between my feet and the sandal so that's something to note. I am not sure if there's still not doing is I just bought
[35:04] Tayson: a pair of Tevas. This is my first handle on this category, they were here for the trip. Otherwise maybe I would have been the guinea pig but I did have to go with a full size and so I went with an 11, usually an 11 and a half and I'm pretty happy I did that. I feel like if I got a 12 or a drown me with just I mean that's not a chocolate but it's it's just you might still be correct that they still do these full-size, which is just interesting if they do that in a world where everyone's so specific about things, but Anyways, so the hike out, though, when a lot better for you felt a lot better and he went from, you know, saying how chosen the worst thing in the world and he hates him, he'll never touch him again to. But how do I have to the van? I'm pretty sure you were back to Pro Chaco.
[35:49] Luis: 100%. I was like, I mean, I tend to be so full. I think we go through those things because, yeah, if they're doing me wrong, I'm never gonna buy him again. But, you know, like, I've had those pair of tackles for, like, six years honestly, and solid off taking him through so many Adventures. They have a couple of rips on the, on the rubber, you know, she saw, but there's still kick in there still going good. So, Yeah. Definitely like wearing socks change my mind and I was, I think when we're driving back as soon as we got signal, I was browsing to see what new tacos, I was gonna buy.
[36:25] Tyler: Oh, okay. But isn't one of the variables worth mentioning for this trip compared to other trips that other hikes you've done in them is that you had a full heavy backpacking backpack, right? On for this one when In like you said the other and there's like, the Narrows is a water hike but it's a Day hike. Sure. Alright look so you you just have a simple little pack with maybe a PB&J and some water in it, so
[36:57] Tayson: it sounds good. Right.
[36:59] Tyler: Do you think that made a big difference in having a full weight, backpacking pack to me to be 100%
[37:06] Luis: honest? I do not think so. I don't think having the bigger pack made that much difference. I think it was mostly the terrain that impacted the way that my feet felt. I think if I would have changed as of the activity, would have gone from From just hiking to like perhaps like running if it would have gone into like trail running or something like that and definitely like the pack size would have affected. high performance, but You know, I don't I didn't feel like it was that big of a factor to have a bigger pack.
[37:37] Tayson: Well and on my last day, I put the gaiters back on because they want to have gone so well with them. And I would definitely say that. By the time I was getting into those last few miles, I could absolutely fill the additional heat. That was getting trapped inside those gators, my ankles were hot, my feet felt hotter, my feet felt more sweaty. So there are kind of pros and cons to that. So my in and you should still watch the video that'll come out eventually about this whole thing because you want to see Luis and he's a character on camera. But like my thought is Trail Runners with gators. Is the most ideal just use the Gators when you're in the water and take them off when you're kind of getting out of that so that you can continue to, you know, vent heat per se or if you can find like the lightest weight Gator possible like go with that one because you're really just trying to keep some of that debris out of the top. And so you don't have to stop and like let you know, dump your shoe per se
[38:31] Tyler: as much. So I think people probably like asked like why we don't use water shoes, you know, like the the marrow ones or the Keen ones that are like half sandal half hiking shoe. That's a pretty specialty
[38:45] Tayson: shoe. Like not many people think about having that shoe, and they are planning a trip like this. Well,
[38:50] Tyler: I have had him, and I have done the Narrows, and I've done other hikes like this in them. And to me, they're kind of worse, than all the options be because they're as heavy as a normal shoe, but they don't have the normal Padding that a trail Runner does. And if you do a long hike in those having not worn them every day for quite a while, you were like pretty much guaranteed big old blisters, right under your ankles and like like where the top rim of the shoe meets. And then two like you just wouldn't think you should talk with them, right? No. Most people do not wear socks
[39:31] Luis: and with that and that's what I'm a sock guy.
[39:33] Tyler: That's what I was going for. Like, if I were to buy those and use them again, I would 100% use them with a sock but they're advertised you don't use a sock with them, and I think that, Most people who would take those on that long of a hike, the hike that we did would not have any better of an experience than Luis did and Tacos. But
[39:56] Tayson: what was your most preferred? Because I like, you would bring in a second pair of shoes. That you and Derek were looking at.
[40:04] Tyler: Oh, just know. We were me and Derek were looking off-road Crocs. Just because they are king, not because we had actually hike in them, but because we would wear him to office. Oh,
[40:14] Tayson: I thought you're, I thought, at some point you're like, oh man, with these, be so nice in this game. I thought you're being real
[40:19] Tyler: know, I think, like, on a casual trip like that. There's no problem with having a camp shoe, you know, something light and Squishy, for hanging out in Camp. But I, I like do not like the Foam. The foam thong style.
[40:39] Tayson: Yeah,
[40:39] Tyler: so I just will never pack those, I'd rather know. But um Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't do this hiking Crocs by any means.
[40:48] Tayson: Yeah. So, yeah, but Um, well, just all in. It was one of. I mean, it was a phenomenal trip. It's always hard to say. Oh, this is my favorite trip, but like, it was up there. I really enjoyed it. The mileage is good. The training is just incredibly pretty. I was so much so that I I almost turned and went back in there this weekend two weeks later. So I was like I want to go take some of the people in here like they need to see. This wasn't able to quite pull that off but I will definitely be going back and sharing that location with with some you know, close friends and family as well because it's and I could just spend a lot of time. It's in a lot more time in there. I think that's one of those highs. That's like, it's so us down. He could just go back and go back and go back. And there's different ways to do it and we did you a few different entry points you can do loops, you can do figure eights. We just did a point to point. That's a weird bug, we having the table, I was just looking at that, but
[41:42] Tyler: But yeah, you can do it a lot of different ways. One of the ways, Luis has done, it is through kind of a mild repel down the crack in the wall. That just takes you right down into essentially, right where our camp was which is a that's a fun adventures way to do it.
[42:00] Luis: So and talking to some friends, I mean there's a fixed rope right there but if you have some experience with climbing or traveling around, you don't need the Rope you just show up and you want to go out and there's not a rope just be very careful but like if you're comfortable with your hands and feet you probably don't need the Rope but I've always thought that it's a nice thing to have. I'm the kind of person that takes safety first. So if it was me I would take a take a harness and just connect onto it with a third hand or something like that person know and then just take it easy but it's definitely, it's definitely one of those hikes that there's so many ways to do it. You can go through the Escalante River and then get into gold or you could go crack. In the wall. I mean, there's just so many options.
[42:47] Tayson: Yeah, well, I think we've covered everything we want to cover. Awesome trip. Appreciate Luis being the guinea pig on that. A Tyler's been nervous forever now that you were mad that he totally the trail Runners but there's not hard feelings. I've been watching for the last week, you know? So and we felt like Luis, you know, earned his place in getting his own pineapple and sardine pizza when we got back to schooling Outfitters. So and
[43:17] Tyler: surprisingly, a few people in the group tried it besides just him, but it's great. Yeah, first we told him, he had to buy that one on his own. We didn't want to stinking up. No one
[43:26] Tayson: wants this, but you? Luis. That's crazy. And then everyone tried it. So I
[43:30] Luis: didn't it was a great pizza. I mean if you're down in escalant. Yeah I think the Outfitters that place to go for for lunch before your adventure or after Definitely a really good place. But
[43:40] Tyler: I mean, it's one of the only
[43:42] Tayson: restaurant there. So, yeah, better stop by the only restaurant. Yeah, they have a gas station. I believe. So awesome. Well, thanks for tuning in, guys. Make sure if you got some value, if you want to go on this trip with your friend, it's always helpful for us as well. Make sure. You subscribe to the podcast and we'll catch you on a future. Episode
[44:04] Tyler: should have always sign us out. Oh
[44:05] Tayson: yeah,
[44:05] Luis: here have an ultralight.
[44:10] Tyler: Happens.
