Tayson: Here's the big question, how do we live a life? Full of Adventures travel and memories on our terms without being millionaires without previous experience? And without unlimited amounts of time, that's the big question and this podcast will give you the answers. I'm your co-host Tayson and I'm Dave Kahn and you're listening to the live ultralight
Brigham: podcast powered by Outdoor Vitals. Hey, welcome to the live ultralight
Tayson: podcast. Today, we are doing a behind the trip podcast where we dive into work, trip that we do usually for product testing, or creating a video and things like that. And this particular one is been was, was one of my all-time favorites. In fact, I would say it's my favorite desert style trip or not high elevation, backpacking trip that we've ever done. We just got back yesterday. And so we are going to dive into a bunch of things. We've got a bunch of tips and tricks to share with you just different things to consider when doing this type of a backpacking trip. And then, just some fun nuances and things we were able to see along the way. So Today with me, I've got Brigham our product designer. And Derek, let's say marketing Guru, he does a little bit of everything around here with marketing. And so, yeah, we're just gonna Dive Right In, on this particular trip, we were looking for something that's about an hour away or less than two hours away from from our office, which we found we're looking for something more remote. Just with things like covid going around. We just wanted to, to find a more remote area to do stuff like this. And so we came across this Wilderness Area. We also had my brother-in-law, join us Caden. Which you'll hear us refer to throughout it. This is really his first big backpacking trip. It was. I think he's done a little bit with boy scouts or things like that but we definitely I kind of threw the invite out there and he ended up taking me up on it and I got a little worried because this trip was looking to be a little bit more difficult and challenging which we'll really dive into. But he held it up like a champ. And so we're also going to give just Some on what that was like to bring him along on a trip like this and just the ways that we kind of coached him through the process. So, unfortunately, he's not here to give some of his input, but maybe we'll have him on in the future to just talk about this trip. So, For starters, we ended up getting to the trailhead about noon and started up the trail and this this particular hike was Slot Canyon, you know, basically it's very, very similar to the Zion. Area. It's it's Red Rocks, Slot, Canyons. that, that type of terrain and It was it was super pretty. Just pulling into the area. We were we were super stoked. I was getting super stoked. Did you guys have any thoughts or whatnot as we went were planning this as far as I don't know? What were you guys still for when we were starting off on this hike?
Team: I was so for the slot canyons I'm just big fan of those. So that was I was excited to be in those again and see more of those
Tayson: Yeah. This this particular hike, we knew we were going to see some people in the bottom of it, but towards the top, we expected to to be quite alone. And that's exactly what we saw. So we started off up the canyon and with the fresh pear legs it was it was not bad going, right? Super pretty. We had some, some different videos that we were filming. And so we got towards the top of this slot King in. We we stopped to film a torture test video where I Ran over and jumped in some water, just to torture, test the pants and the dragon will. And then we climbed up and out of the canyon. The canyon climb getting up. And out of there was it was a beast. It, we knew that this day, we were gonna climb somewhere between, depending on how far we went 23 to 2500 feet of elevation in the day and a lot of it. Came. Right? Right out of this Canyon. But I wanted to just stop right here and talk a little bit about what, what makes this elevation a little bit harder than other elevations to climb? You know, if we've talked about climbing Peaks, we've talked about just elevation gain and general, but this particular elevation was pretty tough. In fact, it was you bring him who brought up the fact that you thought that this elevation was harder than hiking? The whole of the Grand Canyon Trail. Why did you say that?
Brigham: Well, it's just more related to like the rate of a sense. So in this in this hike, you just gain a lot of elevation in a very short distance, so Um, it was also more physically challenging just because there's a lot of rocks. You know where you're taking large steps and using a lot more of your your leg muscles and just builds up your heart rate a lot more whereas my Grand Canyon coming out of the bottom, it's a long hike. It's it's hot, you're exposed quite a bit. But that's very well established trail with long drawn switchbacks and it's has to be made to accommodate large numbers of people. So it's a way easier Trail. Even though like Grand Canyon, you gain like 4500 feet of elevation from the top. It's just a lot it's it's just struck me at the difference in you know we were only I don't know the exact distance, but if it was like, if we were going a mile in that mile, we were gaining a lot of elevation fast compared to something like the Grand Canyon but
Tayson: Yeah, I'm actually trying to pull the elevation just on all Trails here and I'll see if I can figure out. That elevation just from that very initial climb. So yeah. And About a mile and a quarter. So one one mile one point two five miles, we climbed 1300 feet of elevation and I would say more than or about half of that came in the last Like less than half of a mile, right? It was, it was, it was super drastic. Yeah, I would definitely agree. I would like in this even though it wasn't high elevation, we were more in like that 6,000 foot elevation level which to us is not that high, right? It felt kind of similar to climb in a peak or something like that. Just not the not the lack of oxygen but just the, just the overall difficulty because it was, it was big steps. It was straight up fact. When you're going up it on Fresh legs, I didn't I didn't realize how steep it was just nasty. It wasn't until I was actually coming down on more tired, Lakes the next day. But yeah, I was, it was super super Steep and it was hot. It was it was it was climbing in heat when we left this, I'm trying to think of what the temperature was, but we were definitely in the 70s 80s when we may have seen 80s. We got higher. It definitely wasn't wasn't quite that hot but just direct sunlight, not much protection from the Sun trees, and things like that. When we stopped, we could usually find a tree but not always. And so it just it definitely added to the heat which kind of brings up the next thing I want to talk about, which was hydration. So, I've had a lot of experiences where I just haven't been able to stay on top of hydration, as well as I want to get headaches. I get, you know, not feeling super great. And so, I was, I was hounding Caden, my brother-in-law to just drink, water, drink, water, drink water, and I think he did a really good job of that, but we also burned through a lot of water and very fortunately, we, we could kind of see tails and signs that we were gonna build to find water throughout the trip, but still turned into a bit of a battle To, to just always have water with us. My my biggest thing was make sure that you just, you know, your, your filtration equipment because when you need as much water as we need it, in this dry desert area. And with the heat, I thought that I had put a squeeze pouch in my bag and I had not in it. Basically rendered my Sawyer filter useless like trying to squeeze through a water bottle into another water bottle, or something like that. At the amount of water that we needed was was super tough to say the least. I eventually ended up just kind of wrecking one bottle squeezing it crunching it. Whatever I could do to get the water to come out of it in order to, to filter more water. But other than that, we were using your cat. I be free filter which Which turned out to be a pretty slick filter which now I'm I'm gonna go invest in actually, I already invested in one. I'm just waiting for it to be delivered. Now to give that a shot, but yeah, any other thoughts on just hydration in this
Team: in this Trip. Both the systems that that we had with us. I think it added to trip times just because the time out of time we were stopped by any sources of water. It, I would say. I don't know, maybe at least a quarter of the time. Was probably on stops, just around water sources.
Tayson: Yeah,
Team: so that's that's a pretty big chunk of time.
Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, at a time I was really kind of wishing that I had my gravity filter system. I sometimes will not use a gravity filter system, just for weight reasons, but this is one trip or where I was. Wishing kind of that. I had that gravity filter system. A big part of this trip was actually doing some R&D on a backpack design. We've got a backpack design, that's pretty dang far along. We're really, really excited about it. I'm sure you'll see some sneak peeks on our YouTube channel here shortly. But The. It made a huge difference that I could get the water bottles in and out of the backpack without taking it off. That really helps me to stay hydrated. That's a big factor that I just wanted to touch on as well because usually I will use a water bladder system because when I have to take my backpack off to get my water, I don't drink as much water and I don't drink it as consistently and that's a huge factor of saying hydrated. Your body can only absorb so much water and if you're trying to drink big chunks of water, like a full bottle of water and go like an hour to without water and then a full bottle of water. That's not the optimal way to stay hydrated and so I definitely found it super useful on that pack that I could get the water bottle in and out and kind of sit there as we win, whether we are hiking stopped. It's just just really convenient for me, but Definitely the, the majority of time where using one filter for four people in the desert. And the water was not always Stellar that we were pulling from and that that caused a little bit of flow problems or flow rate problems. But overall I feel like we say pretty hydrated and really have any any issues with that and so I'll count that as a win but let's talk a little bit about the sand. So the trip overall that we are trying to accomplish on day one. Would have been. Let me just add this on here, where we actually ended up roughly. If I can. Four or five where we were. We were looking at about a six and a half mile Loop. We ended up calling it at more like five and a half miles five to five and a half miles right in that range. And obviously the elevation played in, we had a first time Backpacker that that kind of ended up making us. Take it a little bit easier, which I was thankful for since I haven't been on a trip of this caliber for quite a while and and then the sand, you know, I don't think we really anticipated for the sand. Of course, the end of the day Derek, I know you're getting a little frustrated at the sand so maybe I'll let you talk about that.
Team: So yeah, it was Sam and all day, we talked about how part of the trip was in a Slot Canyon. I would say half of it is just like open desert kind of the trip it's not any it's kind of slot came in at all. You climb up all the way out of this Canyon right at the beginning. And all this elevation gain and then it's kind of a slight increase in elevation across the big flat. Sandy desert terrain and so. I grew up where there's lots of snow. So I'm really familiar with how hard it is to walk in snow walking in the sand that we were in was a lot. Like it was pretty similar to walking, through snow with the amount of energy that it takes an amount of calories you burn, just taking steps in that sand and so The end of the day, I was actually getting pretty hungry. I was eight or nine o'clock and hadn't had, you know, a good full meal for a little while and I was just
Brigham: ready to
Team: I was just ready for it. I needed. I needed to get that food and not, not just the snack or something.
Tayson: Yeah, we took an early lunch, hike all day and I'm like you guys want to keep going up to where we initially planned and Derek's replied told me that he'd had enough of the sand and had it was time for dinner so we ended up stopping right there which I was I was more than fine with. But yeah the sand definitely took a toll you know climbing up different features and stuff. It was it was like a blessing when you got to walk on Sandstone just because you didn't slip, it was just just a lot easier to to move, right? And then you'd get in the sand and I know bring him was taken some some cute little high steps. Trying to keep the sand out of his sneakers and it was, it was it was fun. For sure. But on top of that too there's just all sorts of elements that we have slick Rock, we had the sand and at one point we were walking down into a water source and I took a little step in and started sinking in the sand. You know I hit some kind of quick sand type S sand and my whole foot went in I was pretty upset because at that point I had been about an hour and a half since I jumped into the water with my pants and my you know, the Sawtooth pants and Dragon Ball thermals on to see how quickly dry and I was I was dry. And then the next thing I know and I was so careful when I did that test and not get my feet wet because I didn't want to hike with wet feet. So of course, it's fitting that I stepped into some quicksand and buried my shoe and soaked it. And that did cause me some discomfort of the day when I said some sand get in there getting moist and kind of packing places and I should have took my shoe off a couple of times and got it out but I didn't. But yeah, the Santa took its toll it definitely was a
Brigham: kind of
Tayson: like a morale thing that just kind of slowly wore on you a little bit more, a little bit more as the day went on. But but it was it was definitely fun to just have a different element and to throw them in the mix. We so we started in that Slot. Canyon we climb up on top. We get to another water source that's where I Step in the quicksand where we get our water and then we started going again and we actually found a second Slot Canyon that we walked into. That was super cool. Some of the guys thought that this was like the coolest part of the trip just because we got to walk in there and had you know 100 plus foot walls that you could basically touch with both hands going. Straight up above us. Definitely a cool feature. We were able to see there and then we kind of backed out of there. And then continued hiking up to
Brigham: the
Tayson: top where we got up on top of these massive Cliffs, which again, you might just have to go check out our YouTube channel. To see some of the Shots. We were able to get and just seeing these Cliffs and what they were like. But it's just these super massive Cliffs that they were able to basically look at out and down a couple thousand feet to the floor and then that just Sticks all the way to the Grand Canyon basically flat all the way down towards the Grand Canyon. So it's just this big vast amount of space that you're looking over and super super breathtaking. I've been looking forward to the site for a long time. Once we put down on paper, just for that particular part to get up to those Cliffs and look off of them and enjoy that. But any thoughts on on how the hike win or just getting up to those Cliffs and any other thoughts with that?
Team: Guys, are I think, I think that, I mean, for me, getting up to the cliffs is it was super cool. It was, I mean, once since I was hangry, good to be able to enjoy the breeze there, get out of the sand and sit on the rock as on those, you know, a couple thousand foot Cliffs. There's A lot of wind blowing and we were, I don't know, five, ten feet away from the edge. So that was nice and the view is really nice. It was kind of cool to think that it just dropped straight down a couple feet from where I was sitting and we're standing and I don't know, I was probably one of the coolest views I've seen so far. I've been on a lot of Peaks and high elevation mountains and I don't think honestly, any of them were quite as cool as that you
Tayson: Yeah, I'd agree. It was
Brigham: It was really pretty. I mean the whole hike was pretty like coming up. The canyon was pretty, unless you kind of get up on top of the Mason and clear it and it's just really open. you could see like in so many different directions, you get another another perspective of Zion National Park kind of from the south and just more aerial view and then looking off to the south of where we were those that sheer Cliff that we were on the edge of and it's cool to be on top of those mesas that, like, normally you just when you're passing by, you know, you look at them and they look amazing from the road, and from the car, It's cool to be up there. With the different perspective of being up on top of that. That normally you view from the bottom and really was I mean it was magnificent views and I like that whole the whole scenery up there was very reminiscent of like a Zion experience and kind of a Grand Canyon experience and just like really cool views.
Team: Yeah, a better appreciation for those things like Brigham said, you can drive past them and think they're amazing, but I think In your mind that are still not even close to what they should be, until you're really up on top of one. And then you really kind of grasp How big how amazing, how beautiful it really is up. Close.
Tayson: yeah,
Brigham: like
Tayson: I, I mean so many times I've driven past past, The Cliffs on the road like man, those are, those are pretty close, you know, those are, those are ways way, cooler area, but I tell you stop, you know, and basically crawl through it on your own feet and get to experience and look and appreciate. I mean even like the monkey marbles you know that were all over these. These rounds rock hard, marbles that come out of this, the sandstone and and just all those features and you look out across and you see, wow, there's just so much more country here than you give credit when you're cruising by 70 miles an hour on a, on a, on a road and um, and then Yeah, just being able to also get up there on top and be able to look back at Zion and then look down towards the Grand Canyon and just see the vastness of both areas. I did not expect us to be able to see Zion as well as we were able to looking looking back to the north. And yeah. It was just it was just really, really impressive and and I don't think there's a way to take it. In fact, the next morning I went up and sat back on my Cliff or You know, was there at least an hour and I you know after just in there an hour, I still just like I I could say here another hour just because it's so kind of breathtaking to sit there and take it in. And again you just, you can't get that from the road but one of the one of my favorite things too about that is, you know, on our drive out. You know, when we pass those clips again, we get back on the main roads and we're driving those Cliffs, and it's like, look, I've been up on top of those Cliffs, I know what's up there. I, I every time I drive past and I'll be the to remember that and and just remember what the view looks like from up there and remember what the hike was like. And remember, you know, scenario that no one else sees this area. Definitely impressed me with just the vastness of it. It's there's a lot more area than you give it credit. I think up there and it was pretty, dang awesome. That no one. No one had been up there. I mean, it's sand and there was no tracks. it was just, you felt pretty dang isolated up there, which, which I obviously love, that's something that always calls to me is just getting farther and Back into areas and stuff where you really get to experience nature and be alone so that that definitely called to me. But so after you get up those Cliffs, I nearly lose my drone. We get to camp we set up camp and we're we all kind of different setups. I was in a tent bringing was in a tent and was in The Mummy pot and their Derek did. The did the usual he went for the cowboy Camp, just throwing his Pad out on a on a little tarp and and sleep in there. And I tried to tell you that you're crazy before we went. I still don't know if you believe me after but we sure enough the Sun starts going down and the bugs start coming out and and I'm grateful that I have my sealed intent but What were you thinking at that point there?
Brigham: Oh,
Team: I was, I was actually just fine. Like, I have Cowboy, camped out on the desert. So many times, I just missed my preferred way to camp anywhere. Actually, if I can, then I would rather not have a shelter at all. If I can see the stars, I can be in there, that's my preference. Um but on this trip there are bugs flying around but I had brought some good bug repellent and so they actually touched me and I was just fine. All night long in the morning in the morning. I was still fine everything. I slept good. I got up and started, you know, making breakfast started heating up some water. Well fine by myself. Set up this the Scorpion and kind of you know, took some pictures of it and watched it kind of walk away. I went over to start cleaning up my tarp and fold that up, stuff it back in my pack and
Tayson: rather
Team: underneath the bottom corner of it, on the foot end that I found an even bigger one that had been hiding. So, None of them came and bothered me while I was asleep or you know, from what I understand crawled on me or anything over the night, but I did find one really, really close to my to my bedding in the morning. So, you know, if you're if you're Gonna be worried at all about. You know, camel spiders or Square Pants or something and maybe maybe don't do it. I did. I'm probably gonna still keep doing the exact same. All right. Yeah.
Tayson: Not even gonna take like the hammock bug net yet.
Team: No.
Tayson: That's a that's crazy to me. I I try I've done that a handful of times but I've given it up I gave it up actually when we were in the Zions in the Narrows of Zions and the sun's already going down and me and Derek were both Cowboy camping that night and Spiders, just started coming out of the Woodworks. I mean, you could see, I could walk from the campfire to my bedding and count. Big daddy, long leg looking spiders. And after that I was I was done. I fortunately got a bug net that night from someone who was Hammock Camping but I have not I have not since then can't without that and unless it was winter. Time in the winter time, I I go use a floorless shelter or a fast and light set up or something like that right on the bug net. But anytime that it's warm enough for bugs to be out. I have not yet gone back to the Cowboy Camp. So, Yeah, so that was that was pretty much day one in a wraps and then the next day we got up and mainly just headed off. I got up in the morning and enjoyed the sunrise and I think some of these guys did as well and then we started heading out, we filtered some some nasty water, it was clear and no one got sick but it Smelt it smelled like I was drinking some swamp water, which it was, but it was it was needed. It was a necessity. So I couldn't complain too much. That's why I always like to bring. Flavor packets, if I can Propel packets or just different things like that, they're they're definitely helpful to get some of that down if you're someone who's sensitive to those types of things. But Out there in the desert. I don't usually mine too much. It's just water and water. Keeps you going. So anyway, so we start heading off. I did want to touch on one thing with with just heading down. So heading down. I mean we climbed 2000 feet of elevation or more that on day one and then on the on day two well we've got to go back down all of that and that's to me. I have become a trekking pole fanatic and anytime I invite new people on seems like I end up sharing my trekking poles and they always clean that they're gonna go get their own, tracking pulls off that because it really does just help a ton with your knees helps. You feel like you're in four wheel drive on the way up and then it just helps your knees you know dispersed weight on the way down if all those big steps and things and so he made a Believer out of trekking poles for Kaden And I think I'm gonna buy at least an extra set to start loaning to people, so I can use two trekking poles again on these trips. But but yeah, I mean, if you're not a believer in trekking poles definitely check Them start using them. It'll take an hour so to get used to them, but after that, you'll, if you're like any of us, you're really appreciate them minus Derek. Derek still, the only one that doesn't use. Trekking poles. So he's the anomaly of the office, but Anyways, I got to be running.
Team: Camera equipment, almost, you know, more than half the time there's I can't have my hands full of trekking poles. So whether I want them or not, it's just kind of how it is. Yeah, that's true. That's true.
Tayson: It is pretty difficult. You might get away with one like I was using. If you mounted the camera to the trekking, pole, I think that could help but
Brigham: yeah,
Tayson: it was it would be difficult for sure. Luckily, you're probably the last guy of the bunch so I think your knees and stuff of been just fine.
Team: Yeah, they so
Tayson: A couple things we did take the backpacks, I think we'll talk about the backpacks a little bit more on some different episodes. Again on YouTube will probably will we will be publishing a video at some point about teasing out the R&D trip about those, what we learned, what we liked, what we are going to go put under a microscope, you know, the tear downs and just different things like that. But I just want to ask this each one. As we go, it'll just go on a circle here. I guess we'll start with Brigham. You know what was your favorite piece of gear? Like the most critical piece of gear for this trip and a piece of gear that maybe you didn't need or didn't use it all.
Brigham: Well probably my favorite piece of gear was the filter just because it I mean it. Became the, I guess the filter for the group. So that played a pretty pretty big role, and it was very convenient, had a good flow rate had a good floor. I mean, a lot of time we were filtering stagnant, water, and so, and up there with all the sand, there's a lot of sediment so it's not the clearest settlement free Waters. So
Tayson: that you Derek, particularly like the yellow tint.
Brigham: Yeah, it's a rid of the color of the water. But yeah, that was I was really happy with that. Even after it, slowed down from the, the gunk build up, it still was functional for. It was faster even at the end of the trip,
Tayson: then my Sawyer was when I first started using it. Although I didn't have a good bag to compress and push the water through. It had a significantly faster flow rate than my sweater and the Sawyers I don't have anything against them. That's just an observation. Yeah,
Brigham: we
Tayson: don't have enough time with it with the katadyn. I feel like to give strong recommendations yet but it was interesting enough that like I said I went and got one and I'm doing some testing with myself. So
Brigham: I mean I the only let's see what didn't I use? I mean, there there's certain things that all always take, even if I don't use them like I didn't use our jacket. I didn't use the Lost tech jacket, I didn't use that at all, but I'm not gonna go on a backpacking trip without something. Because even though the weather forecast looked good, you just never know. So, you know, I'll probably always have something like that in terms of just as Fair layer.
Tayson: Yeah, one thing to note on that too, that Brigham talked about with that water filter, is it did become the filter for us. But I want I want to just make sure people recognize that It's always good to have backups. And so, actually most of us in the group had our own water filters. We just were choosing to use is so we have, you know, a backup there as far as if his failed or something, we have some others options potentially. This might not have been asking me and then the other thing is, I personally always put the the tablets or whatever in my first aid kit, they weigh almost nothing. I don't choose to use them very often but I always have a fail safe to be able to get water. And so, I just really encourage people to To get some of those tablets and just leave them in your pack is a first aid measure. So, Derek.
Team: My favorite piece of gear was actually a feature on on my gear which was on my Sawtooth pants. I was wearing the side zipper events. They actually worked phenomenally and keeping me. Cool! Just letting all that are coming. When you said both found the side's Thighs and everywhere. Just so much cooler hiking around all day long and then if it started cooling down, I want to warm up with super easy so that was probably my favorite one thing I didn't really need that. I brought I never used really um, was my jacket. I brought a lot of tech jacket just in case it cooled down at night. Sometimes it does out there on the switch on the top of them so like that, but with with the stuff, I had a Dragon Ball hoodie You know, my top quilt. I never actually got cold enough to ever want to put that jacket on. So that was Again not a ton of extra weight. I was carrying that they're pretty light jackets but it just wasn't needed
Tayson: 12 ounces or so I think is what they are. So Yeah, I I would agree, I didn't actually touch my Jack. Well, I did use it in the morning, but I very easily could have just taken my top quilt and wrap it around me as well, for the hours. So, I used it but I, I did use my first second but And I used my side's of fence a lot. I I guess I would struggle to pick my favorite thing. I would say some stuff about the backpack I was just really stoked about some of that, but I'll just say, I think my favorite gear items was what I was wearing because when we did we decided to do a torture test and of course, I get to be the guinea pigs in. And the, the concept was hey, let's let's do the worst. Let's let's so I went and got into the river and just totally wet it out the pants. And then I was gonna keep hiking and I had some fears with like chafe and I would dry I had, and we've done enough testing with them and whatnot. I knew they would dry well but I was a little bit nervous about like chafing or just how, you know, things like that we can sometimes happen. So I first got the pants wet and then I came out and I was like, you know I'm gonna do this I may as well. Use the Dragon Ball hoodie as well and get it wet. Because again, I just I just have faith and we've done some testing with that too. Well, a lot of testing with that but I've done a similar torture test with that as well. So, I went back in and fully submerged in the in the river and then kept hiking and I I kind of let things drip dry and wring out just a little bit. And then I put my shoes back on and we hit the trail and I was just more than thrilled that they drove. They the dried out so fast that I didn't get any chafing. I didn't get any, any have any issues like that and then honestly, I was quite happy that the dragon that I wet it out the dragon will hoodie because as we were crying like essentially as I dumped and then we started climbing the worst section by far and it really helps me stay cooler. It was just just had some moisture and by the top essentially, when we first got that next Waters, when we called the test is finished because everything was dried out. And so I was I was Super comfortable and just yeah, I just really, really performed. I used the hoodie a lot. So I'll say, the hoodie was my favorite piece because I, I sunburned, very easy. So, I was using the hood. I had the long sleeves on. It kept me really well, protected, out of the elements with its sun protection. But then it just is still feels really lightweight. I didn't overheat in it. So I, I would say the Dragon, Ball hoodie was my personal favorite. What I used the most, as far as gear that I didn't need or the least valuable gear to me, I had a couple little things. I had like a net Gator that I didn't end up using because I had the hoodie and used it the whole time, but I can't, I mean, we looked at the forecast, there wasn't any rain in the forecast, but either way, I still brought a full tent system. Our Dominion one person tent with the body, the polls, and the Fly, and we got there and like, you know, I'd rather just watch the Stars tonight. And so I didn't use the fly. And so I packed the fly up and a bunch of extra Stakes that I didn't need to. So that was the extra in my pack. Um that I that I didn't need to bring and so that I guess that's the least used or least favorite item was just bringing the rainfly was just an unnecessary thing. So, Yeah, I think that covers the trip really. Well, it was like I say, it was one of my favorite trips, just just the beauty of this area. The remoteness, just something else. Like I say we've been designed a lot of. Well, tons, thousands and thousands of people go design every year but this is definitely more remote personal. I feel like trip and I definitely enjoyed that, but Any. Closing comments or thoughts about the trip that we didn't get to touch on yet.
Team: No kidding was a trooper. He did his first time like, I think if you have the right equipment and know the right stuff about staying hydrated and keeping your electrolytes like Jason you were motivating him to drink your salt pills as long as you do that or you know how to do that and then even if you're a first time or you can I mean, you can attack but big highs and do some pretty good things as long as you. Know, your Fitness levels and all those essential things, so he did Super well, I hadn't really done anything like that, ever, any even day hikes with that kind of elevation game. He said, so I thought, I thought that was a A cool thing for him. And for me to see just You know, anybody can really go do that if they want to.
