Tayson: So here's the big question, how do we live a life? Full of Adventures travel and memories on our terms without being millionaires without previous experience? And without unlimited amounts of time, that's the big question and this podcast will give you the answers. I'm your co-host Tayson Whittaker and I'm Dave Keim and you're listening to the live ultralight podcast powered by Outdoor Vitals. All right, welcome. Back to day, two of our backyard through hike. We have the whole gang here, Darren Derek and Brigham, and we're gonna walk you through day two. And how that went And then after that, we'll kind of break down some different thoughts that we had and maybe some tips and tricks along the way. So, first starters, today was the big day. We had the most mileage to cover, we wanted to cover. Roughly 15 miles is what we'd plan. We hiked a little bit extra on day one, but I think we still got about 14 and a half of those miles, which we went a little bit farther than we planted as well. For starters, we started off a little dry still, we kind of finished that way on the podcast yesterday. We didn't have a ton of water and so we, we got down to water and we were pretty thrilled. We definitely started packing a lot more water. We were down there for a while, then we took off and started hiking up there. How much more water do you feel like you guys carry today compared to day one? I feel like I carry another. At least an extra leader, maybe to more leaders in yesterday depending on what part of the day. Same with me, just about two more liters. Yeah, I did. Yeah, I thought I'd later and a half. Extra today. Yeah, we were, we were definitely a lot more cautious, not knowing entirely where, every water source was and We we were carrying a lot heavier packs today just packing a lot more water. So from there, we went up and we got kind of back on top of the mountain and got a really cool vanish Point towards Zion and some of us stranding areas over there, which is, which is really cool to see And then we started to Branch over to kind of the North End of the mountain and that's where things started to get pretty exciting. A Bernard come through this area, two years back and I don't know if the trail was was there before, but it definitely wasn't there now, and so, we spent probably upwards of two miles. kind of picking our way through this, this burned area and navigating a bunch of downed trees and You know, new foliage growing up and they got pretty difficult and I think we'll I don't know any it's one thing to walk on established trailer and if you've never been out here in the west it's also something to walk you know high elevations and walk Mountain terrain but it's all a third degree here is to walk on a non-established trail through that same territory and that that definitely was a little bit demoralizing and kind of weight on us. But the same time we got through, we got down and we there was water. but one thing I did want to mention when you guys surprised by the heat, when we were walking through that fire, I know there wasn't any shade and so there was definitely more heat from the Sun like that. There's no canopy to provide that extra protection. So I was I was sweating a lot more throughout the day because of that yeah it was really hot through there obviously like there and said no shade but also you know because there was a fire that went through there there's no Grass or underbrush or anything. So it's just bare dirt and on the hillsides, it's just absorbing all that heat from the Sun and like my feet were noticeably hot. And the fact that it was, we're basically bushwhacking there wasn't necessarily a visible Trail most of the time. So we're climbing over rocks over logs, basically just doing a lot more. Physical movement just to get through that that area. It was, it was hot. I'm always surprised by the fact that like through a burnt. Typically the dirt is a lot more blackened and it just it sucks the heat into it and my feet got really, really hot and we got to the bottom of that drainage and back into a normal Trail or no. It wasn't as burned and and what not I actually took my shoes off and put them in the river and I felt super good. I just I was amazed by how hot my feet got that. So after that, we it was felt like Smooth Sailing. We still had a lot of territory to cover, but we had a really good stride and we just started clicking off the MI. You know, joints are getting a little bit more sore and and everyone's kind of got their own little, their little own little nuances and whatnot, but the miles I feel like clicked off for the most part through the remainder of the day. And that that was really good. The country was was crazy, beautiful and I just love the fact because we did that crappy connection between kind of the south end of this mountain, in the North End of This Mountain. It really led us. See, the entirety of the mountain most people as you could definitely tell us. I don't know if anyone's been in there in the last couple of years through that trail. And so we walked in on a busy part. I think we saw the last person that we've seen on this whole trip at like, 10:00 or 11:00 yesterday. And then we can continue hiking kind of in that area where there's occasional people but never did see anyone and then this you know, taking this cut through Trail. It was and I was interesting. We went from waking up where there was snow to now or just down in the desert and seeing much, much different terrain. So, I really like that aspect of how this was planned and the variety of the, the train. Here, you guys have any thoughts on what you expected in the variety of the train or if you realize that the elevation changes and things would be that drastic. I was actually expecting it all to be like day one. Honestly, I heard a little bit about Pine Valley and I feel like I've heard the most about the part of Pine Valley. That's You know what we did day one. And so I expected that the whole time. I didn't realize that this over here with the desert and everything else would be part of it. Yeah, it just gives you huge variety and and it's been super, super cool. I definitely always wanted to see this section amount and visualize kind of what I thought was going to be and it nothing nothing held a candle, I think to what it actually is and the size and the breadth, and the vegetation and different things. It's just it's so cool to find the layer eyes on on. Something you've kind of drove past your whole life. So again I just want to throw this in here really quick. We're getting a little bit of wind so if you hear that bear with us but We'll kind of keep pushing along here but we're just actively filming this on the trail. So after that we I guess we just kind of clicked it in and got here to camp tonight but I wanted to kind of go backwards now and just talk about a few of the things that that we learned I think we've touched on one which is just hydration. We definitely overpacked on water today and we I don't none of us went empty. Most of us still had quite a bit of water. Every water fill up. Do any of you guys regret that like you packed extra water today? Not at all. Not for me, it was great knowing that I still had plenty more in my pack. I think I drank more liberally and kept myself a little bit more High hydrated today. Yeah, I feel the same, it's kind of hard to feel bad about having too much water, Just because of yesterday, we didn't know if we'd have enough. So I would much rather be more prepared and be caught with out. Yeah, I think that brings up a point is a lot of times people don't want to carry water because water is heavy, right? A leader of water is a couple pounds and it just really can stack up quickly. So it's kind of two things I want to talk about one. That's a big part to me of why it's important to always stay as light as possible because sometimes you do have bigger water carries. Or you're just out here in the, you know, desert of Utah, and you just need to carry more water all the time and so, the lighter, you can get your pack. Obviously, the more water you can carry and the better, you're gonna feel on the trail. And I think that's, that's super important because we were carrying upwards of 10 pounds of water today. The other thing that I did want to note especially since we're out here, you know, testing some of our prototype backpacks is, you know, some of our philosophy here on the amount of weight that you carry. So, there's a lot of, you know, hype out there about ultralight. Backpacking, getting subtitles sub 10 pounds with your base weight and different things there and you know, and I'm one who's like, if you're getting close to 10 pounds, you're doing a great job and But but everyone has their own nuances, right? The different things that they're taking. But the big thing for us when we built the backpack is we know. It's here you talk that you have bigger water, carries and so one of the things that we focused a ton of time and energy on Brigham especially just really dove into. This was the comfort of how this backpack can carry the load. So not only did it need to be light, but I needed to be comfortable. There's a lot of times people really get focused on these frameless packs and I guess our philosophy as of right now is that we're not as thrilled with those frameless packs because a time, you get your your base weight in. And if you're going any range of days and you start adding in your food, a couple pounds of food, a day, and then, I'm on top of that. You have water, it's really, really easy to break 20 pounds. Even if you're an ultralight Backpacker, and sometimes you can get, you know, into your high 20s or even 30s depending on Different types of trains water carries food, carries, or if you're carrying anything extra for that specific trip, camera gear. Maybe you're bringing a family member and you're helping them with their load different things, but it's really easy to get above that. And so, That's been a huge part of what we've built into our backpack and our frame. It's just that it is It's crazy comfortable. I don't know. What are your guys's? I mean, I know Darren you kind of got to we talked on this a little bit yesterday, but I felt like the backpack Road extremely. Well, I have had no hot spots, no pressure points. And and like I said, we're carrying 10 pounds of water, a lot of the day. If I had a frameless pack, I don't I don't know if I would say the same thing. Hey, I had some. Yeah. Overall, I think my backpack carrying really well, I am using a different size frame of these prototypes were testing that I did. Last time, I think that this size frame is giving me a few pressure points, where I didn't notice them before. But overall, if I think about You know how the pack Rose last time and how it rides this time, even if there's like a little bit of a size difference, I think overall the pack was super comfortable, even with all the extra weight, with the extra water we carry today. yeah, and you've got a What is that? Well, it's definitely it's a prototype maybe mid mid level is right. The Prototype that I've been sharing? Has since been updated. So some of the problems I'm probably had today and again, they weren't huge things. They're just, I felt a little bit more pressure in places that and that's necessarily want it, but it wasn't enough to really be a too big of a deal. But again, the pack that I had was definitely a prototype that has since been updated into another product prototype, that's even better now. And that's what Brigham and tasting had I think today, It was my first time using the pack and I had one little hot spot and tasting and bring him were able to identify. The exact reasoning is just cuz I was carrying I didn't have it set up properly for me right at the beginning and with a few quick adjustments. I've been able to probably have the heaviest pack here and haven't had a complaint, so it's been really good for me. Yeah, when we go to release the backpack, we'll definitely put out a video that's going to help you get the. Get the appropriate size of backpack. That's a big deal and then there's some little things with Derek Deron, excuse me. Just as hit belt needed to be slid. All the way down to the bottom, when he when we swapped a hip belt on and off that pack. So, there's some little nuances that will will try to pinpoint to, but we've definitely found a couple tiny things. I mean, we're down, I'm gonna wear, might be on the 5th or six Prototype at this point, but we're definitely nitpicking little things and super stoked about that pack. But, Definitely today was a day and like I say, we're not going on a massive trip, but the same time, you have to carry 10 pounds of water. Plus all of your gear and food. The weight starts to stack up and I was very grateful to have a framed pack today. Yeah. But have a couple thoughts that are different things but they kind of actually have the same concept I guess. Thinking back to like the water discussion. you know, and how We today. You know, we carry more, we drank more. but then all, so kind of the points you were making about people or, you know, not bringing enough water or and, and my thought is it's Kind of to further that it's maybe you don't even necessarily have to start out with. A lot of water, but have some options. Like, if you say you start with two liters, right? But also have in your pack, the ability to carry more. So you're not necessarily having to carry all that weight all the time, but like we did, you know, every hike is going to be different and every person's gonna be different. So they're gonna, you know, adapt like what pretty much what we all did. After day one, we decided we're gonna carry more water. Well, we all had means to carry more water and we weren't necessarily carrying our full capacity, the entire trip and that kind of gets me thinking about some of the points you made about the backpack and frameless packs. Right, we all want to get really, really light with our, with our base weights, and our weights. But in the end, you know, your base weights, a great thing to pay attention to, but Most of the time, you're never carrying your base weight. I mean the majority of a hike you're not caring your base weight so kind of going into. Yeah they're maybe a frameless pack can Can be great with somebody that has a insane low base weight. But if you put a few days of food in there, and on a hike like this, where you're going, A 7 8, 10 miles, without water stops, then you're gonna have to load that pack up with a lot of water and that's where kind of our philosophy is. We want a pack that when you are carrying maybe heavier than expected loads that it rides just as comfortably as as when you're not. So, Just a couple thoughts. I had Yeah. Yeah, I think they're well, pointed out where we're at, where we're located, what we're used to. And, and what we do for safety reasons, I guess, you know, me carrying water is a safety concern. I think that there's just a lot of Pros to a frame, and and I know that this adds a little bit more to build a frame into our pack, but our frame. I think, you told me that the other day, three or four ounces Yeah, it's like three point six ounces. Yeah. And then you've got some different webbing and some ways to mount that in there but it doesn't add a terrible amount to build in a frame but man it adds a lot of comfort when you know how to use those load lifter straps and size that backpack correctly. And and again, we'll definitely make sure that we have something for you guys when we do release this next backpack because that's an one of the number one things that I see happen wrong with people is they just don't understand how to carry that weight and how to make a, how to make it fit, their body and feel seamless with them. So, we'll definitely cover that in a video in the future, too. Um, let's revisit cold soaking, how did cold soaking go to today? Derek? Um, much better actually. So today I didn't put near as much water and my cold soak for dinner. As I did yesterday, yesterday was pretty mushy. The texture was pretty bad, like I didn't mind it because I am not that picky, but it was pretty mushy today. I put a lot less water in it to let it soak all day. We're all afternoon, at least, and it was perfect consistency. Perfect texture. The Taste was still a little bit different than if I used boiled water and cooked it. But overall I thought it still tasted great. And again with a different cultural recipes available. I think as long as you get the right amount of water, it's always good to put Not enough water. And instead of too much, as you can always add more later. And that's exactly what happened today. I did that just a little bit later. And ended up being perfect. So, based off these last two days, I have actually become a pretty big fan of cold soaking. I'm a simple kind of guy as, you know, Jason, put it earlier if I can simplify things. I, I like to do that. And so, he's the guy who's Cowboy camping. Let's just put it that way. He's got a bug, net on a tarp, and that's his, that's his Camp. I didn't want to set up a tent. So here's the big question, how do we live a life? Full of Adventures travel and memories on our terms without being millionaires without previous experience? And without unlimited amounts of time, that's the big question and this podcast will give you the answers. I'm your co-host Tayson Whittaker and I'm Dave Keim and
Dave: you're listening to the live ultralight podcast powered by Outdoor Vitals. All right,
Tayson: welcome. Back to day, two of our backyard through hike. We have the whole gang here, Darren Derek and Brigham, and we're gonna walk you through day two. And how that went And then after that, we'll kind of break down some different thoughts that we had and maybe some tips and tricks along the way. So, first starters, today was the big day. We had the most mileage to cover, we wanted to cover. Roughly 15 miles is what we'd plan. We hiked a little bit extra on day one, but I think we still got about 14 and a half of those miles, which we went a little bit farther than we planted as well. For starters, we started off a little dry still, we kind of finished that way on the podcast yesterday. We didn't have a ton of water and so we, we got down to water and we were pretty thrilled. We definitely started packing a lot more water. We were down there for a while, then we took off and started hiking up there. How much more water do you feel like you guys carry today compared to day one?
Brigham: I feel like I carry another. At least an extra leader, maybe to more leaders in yesterday depending on what part of the day.
Dave: Same with me, just about two more liters.
Derek: Yeah, I did. Yeah, I thought I'd later and a half. Extra today.
Tayson: Yeah, we were, we were definitely a lot more cautious, not knowing entirely where, every water source was and We we were carrying a lot heavier packs today just packing a lot more water. So from there, we went up and we got kind of back on top of the mountain and got a really cool vanish Point towards Zion and some of us stranding areas over there, which is, which is really cool to see And then we started to Branch over to kind of the North End of the mountain and that's where things started to get pretty exciting. A Bernard come through this area, two years back and I don't know if the trail was was there before, but it definitely wasn't there now, and so, we spent probably upwards of two miles. kind of picking our way through this, this burned area and navigating a bunch of downed trees and You know, new foliage growing up and they got pretty difficult and I think we'll I don't know any it's one thing to walk on established trailer and if you've never been out here in the west it's also something to walk you know high elevations and walk Mountain terrain but it's all a third degree here is to walk on a non-established trail through that same territory and that that definitely was a little bit demoralizing and kind of weight on us. But the same time we got through, we got down and we there was water. but one thing I did want to mention when you guys surprised by the heat, when we were walking through that fire,
Dave: I know there wasn't any shade and so there was definitely more heat from the Sun like that. There's no canopy to provide that extra protection. So I was I was sweating a lot more throughout the day because of that
Derek: yeah it was really hot through there obviously like there and said no shade but also you know because there was a fire that went through there there's no Grass or underbrush or anything. So it's just bare dirt and on the hillsides, it's just absorbing all that heat from the Sun and like my feet were noticeably hot. And the fact that it was, we're basically bushwhacking there wasn't necessarily a visible Trail most of the time. So we're climbing over rocks over logs, basically just doing a lot more. Physical movement just to get through that that area. It was,
Tayson: it was hot. I'm always surprised by the fact that like through a burnt. Typically the dirt is a lot more blackened and it just it sucks the heat into it and my feet got really, really hot and we got to the bottom of that drainage and back into a normal Trail or no. It wasn't as burned and and what not I actually took my shoes off and put them in the river and I felt super good. I just I was amazed by how hot my feet got that. So after that, we it was felt like Smooth Sailing. We still had a lot of territory to cover, but we had a really good stride and we just started clicking off the MI. You know, joints are getting a little bit more sore and and everyone's kind of got their own little, their little own little nuances and whatnot, but the miles I feel like clicked off for the most part through the remainder of the day. And that that was really good. The country was was crazy, beautiful and I just love the fact because we did that crappy connection between kind of the south end of this mountain, in the North End of This Mountain. It really led us. See, the entirety of the mountain most people as you could definitely tell us. I don't know if anyone's been in there in the last couple of years through that trail. And so we walked in on a busy part. I think we saw the last person that we've seen on this whole trip at like, 10:00 or 11:00 yesterday. And then we can continue hiking kind of in that area where there's occasional people but never did see anyone and then this you know, taking this cut through Trail. It was and I was interesting. We went from waking up where there was snow to now or just down in the desert and seeing much, much different terrain. So, I really like that aspect of how this was planned and the variety of the, the train. Here, you guys have any thoughts on what you expected in the variety of the train or if you realize that the elevation changes and things would be that drastic.
Brigham: I was actually expecting it all to be like day one. Honestly, I heard a little bit about Pine Valley and I feel like I've heard the most about the part of Pine Valley. That's You know what we did day one. And so I expected that the whole time. I didn't realize that this over here with the desert and everything else would be part of it.
Tayson: Yeah, it just gives you huge variety and and it's been super, super cool. I definitely always wanted to see this section amount and visualize kind of what I thought was going to be and it nothing nothing held a candle, I think to what it actually is and the size and the breadth, and the vegetation and different things. It's just it's so cool to find the layer eyes on on. Something you've kind of drove past your whole life. So again I just want to throw this in here really quick. We're getting a little bit of wind so if you hear that bear with us but We'll kind of keep pushing along here but we're just actively filming this on the trail. So after that we I guess we just kind of clicked it in and got here to camp tonight but I wanted to kind of go backwards now and just talk about a few of the things that that we learned I think we've touched on one which is just hydration. We definitely overpacked on water today and we I don't none of us went empty. Most of us still had quite a bit of water. Every water fill up. Do any of you guys regret that like you packed extra water today?
Brigham: Not at all. Not for me, it was great knowing that I still had plenty more in my pack. I think I drank more liberally and kept myself a little bit more High hydrated today.
Dave: Yeah, I feel the same, it's kind of hard to feel bad about having too much water, Just because of yesterday, we didn't know if we'd have enough. So I would much rather be more prepared and be caught with out.
Tayson: Yeah, I think that brings up a point is a lot of times people don't want to carry water because water is heavy, right? A leader of water is a couple pounds and it just really can stack up quickly. So it's kind of two things I want to talk about one. That's a big part to me of why it's important to always stay as light as possible because sometimes you do have bigger water carries. Or you're just out here in the, you know, desert of Utah, and you just need to carry more water all the time and so, the lighter, you can get your pack. Obviously, the more water you can carry and the better, you're gonna feel on the trail. And I think that's, that's super important because we were carrying upwards of 10 pounds of water today. The other thing that I did want to note especially since we're out here, you know, testing some of our prototype backpacks is, you know, some of our philosophy here on the amount of weight that you carry. So, there's a lot of, you know, hype out there about ultralight. Backpacking, getting subtitles sub 10 pounds with your base weight and different things there and you know, and I'm one who's like, if you're getting close to 10 pounds, you're doing a great job and But but everyone has their own nuances, right? The different things that they're taking. But the big thing for us when we built the backpack is we know. It's here you talk that you have bigger water, carries and so one of the things that we focused a ton of time and energy on Brigham especially just really dove into. This was the comfort of how this backpack can carry the load. So not only did it need to be light, but I needed to be comfortable. There's a lot of times people really get focused on these frameless packs and I guess our philosophy as of right now is that we're not as thrilled with those frameless packs because a time, you get your your base weight in. And if you're going any range of days and you start adding in your food, a couple pounds of food, a day, and then, I'm on top of that. You have water, it's really, really easy to break 20 pounds. Even if you're an ultralight Backpacker, and sometimes you can get, you know, into your high 20s or even 30s depending on Different types of trains water carries food, carries, or if you're carrying anything extra for that specific trip, camera gear. Maybe you're bringing a family member and you're helping them with their load different things, but it's really easy to get above that. And so, That's been a huge part of what we've built into our backpack and our frame. It's just that it is It's crazy comfortable. I don't know. What are your guys's? I mean, I know Darren you kind of got to we talked on this a little bit yesterday, but I felt like the backpack Road extremely. Well, I have had no hot spots, no pressure points. And and like I said, we're carrying 10 pounds of water, a lot of the day. If I had a frameless pack, I don't I don't know if I would say the same thing. Hey, I had some.
Brigham: Yeah. Overall, I think my backpack carrying really well, I am using a different size frame of these prototypes were testing that I did. Last time, I think that this size frame is giving me a few pressure points, where I didn't notice them before. But overall, if I think about You know how the pack Rose last time and how it rides this time, even if there's like a little bit of a size difference, I think overall the pack was super comfortable, even with all the extra weight, with the extra water we carry today.
Derek: yeah, and you've got a What is that? Well, it's definitely it's a prototype maybe mid mid level is right. The
Brigham: Prototype that I've been sharing? Has since been updated. So some of the problems I'm probably had today and again, they weren't huge things. They're just, I felt a little bit more pressure in places that and that's necessarily want it, but it wasn't enough to really be a too big of a deal. But again, the pack that I had was definitely a prototype that has since been updated into another product prototype, that's even better now. And that's what Brigham and tasting had I think today,
Dave: It was my first time using the pack and I had one little hot spot and tasting and bring him were able to identify. The exact reasoning is just cuz I was carrying I didn't have it set up properly for me right at the beginning and with a few quick adjustments. I've been able to probably have the heaviest pack here and haven't had a complaint, so it's been really good for me.
Tayson: Yeah, when we go to release the backpack, we'll definitely put out a video that's going to help you get the. Get the appropriate size of backpack. That's a big deal and then there's some little things with Derek Deron, excuse me. Just as hit belt needed to be slid. All the way down to the bottom, when he when we swapped a hip belt on and off that pack. So, there's some little nuances that will will try to pinpoint to, but we've definitely found a couple tiny things. I mean, we're down, I'm gonna wear, might be on the 5th or six Prototype at this point, but we're definitely nitpicking little things and super stoked about that pack. But, Definitely today was a day and like I say, we're not going on a massive trip, but the same time, you have to carry 10 pounds of water. Plus all of your gear and food. The weight starts to stack up and I was very grateful to have a framed pack today.
Derek: Yeah. But have a couple thoughts that are different things but they kind of actually have the same concept I guess. Thinking back to like the water discussion. you know, and how We today. You know, we carry more, we drank more. but then all, so kind of the points you were making about people or, you know, not bringing enough water or and, and my thought is it's Kind of to further that it's maybe you don't even necessarily have to start out with. A lot of water, but have some options. Like, if you say you start with two liters, right? But also have in your pack, the ability to carry more. So you're not necessarily having to carry all that weight all the time, but like we did, you know, every hike is going to be different and every person's gonna be different. So they're gonna, you know, adapt like what pretty much what we all did. After day one, we decided we're gonna carry more water. Well, we all had means to carry more water and we weren't necessarily carrying our full capacity, the entire trip and that kind of gets me thinking about some of the points you made about the backpack and frameless packs. Right, we all want to get really, really light with our, with our base weights, and our weights. But in the end, you know, your base weights, a great thing to pay attention to, but Most of the time, you're never carrying your base weight. I mean the majority of a hike you're not caring your base weight so kind of going into. Yeah they're maybe a frameless pack can Can be great with somebody that has a insane low base weight. But if you put a few days of food in there, and on a hike like this, where you're going, A 7 8, 10 miles, without water stops, then you're gonna have to load that pack up with a lot of water and that's where kind of our philosophy is. We want a pack that when you are carrying maybe heavier than expected loads that it rides just as comfortably as as when you're not. So, Just a couple thoughts. I had
