Tayson: So here's the big question, how do we lighten our gear and build our confidence. So we can start living a life full of Outdoor Adventures and memories without having unlimited amounts of time money and previous experience. That's the big question and we are here to help you find the answers. This is the little trolley podcast power, bi Outdoor Vitals. Hey, what's up? I'll be tribe and Live Ultralight listeners. Today, we have a special guest on someone who's been hanging out around
Tayson: the office for quite a while. And he recently brought up Kind of an interesting story that I thought would be really fun to share on the podcast has to do with Hammock Camping. And I thought it'd be a good segue into just talking a little bit about hammocks and how it can be a really good time. If it's something that you've never looked into before so burning Clark, you've been hanging out here, you're more than qualified to do what you do
Tayson: around here. But for whatever reason you've been hanging out while you're finishing up your college degree, And recently you told me that you've slept in a hammock a little bit.
Brennan: Yeah I slept in a hammock quite a bit, it kind of started in college. I got in a hammock camping out. A lot of friends that were into that and bought my first Outdoor Vitals product probably about a year and a half ago and found out that they were here, local and Cedar and decided to start hang out, or hang out around the office a little bit. So, yeah, I thought that was pretty,
Tayson: pretty funny because not only did you sleep a bunch outside. So, so correct me if I'm wrong. You you set a goal here to sleep outside more than you slept inside during like, a semester of college correct.
Brennan: Uh-huh. So is my last fall semester me, my friends went camping, hammock camping up at Navajo Lake, which is just a little Lake here outside of Cedar City Utah. And I had already spent about two weeks camping in my hammock and I got home and my roommates, like you've never been home. And so I started out the days like I'm just gonna set a goal and I'm going to sleep more days in my hammock, this semester that I'm going to sleep
Brennan: in my apartment. So it all kind of started from there and I ended up doing it. So let's go one more day than I needed. So what is that mean? You slept how many days outside? How many days? Inside.
Brennan: So, there was 109 days in the semester and I saw 55 days in my
Tayson: hammock. So, It's a few days. My friend that's
Brennan: a few days. Most of it was done and some pretty good whether we're pretty blessed here in Cedar City. With some really good weather in the fall, but I kind of got behind his midterms started coming around and Towards and in November and early December there, some really really cool days?
Tayson: Yeah, yeah. Well, we're gonna dive into that. But before we do, I, I wanted to ask what was kind of the motivation. Like when you set this goal, what what were you thinking? Like what what drove you to do it?
Brennan: I'm I've always been someone that's loved the outdoors. I mean I grew up in Boy, Scouts doing backpacking trips and camping trips with my family. We Go once a year on a big two week camping trip with my grandpa, so it's always been something that I've really loved. But I think my motivation is I don't. Like when people tell me that, I can't do things and so, I just got home my room. It's man, you're never here anymore. You're always either
Brennan: camping with your friends or we ever gonna see ya, feel like you're sleeping more days in your hammock. Like, well maybe I'll just sleep more days of my hammock then. And so, I kind of just took it as a challenge upon myself to do that and I slept in my hammock anyway, could whether it's tied between two cars or out of park, somewhere up the canyon. I just tried to get a night in my hammock again. So, yeah, now that's
Tayson: I can relate to that. I think that I think everyone kind of canned just like yeah why not like why why not go for this. Someone tells you can't maybe get a chip on your shoulder when I want to give it a shot but that's that's pretty extreme. Like you've got a really love Hammock Camping. So where when did you get involved with him at camping and like, why do you prefer to him at camp?
Brennan: Um, I think I prefer Hammock Camping just because it's a lot more comfortable to me. I kind of just I've always slept in a ball and it can kind of just curl up in my ball in my hammock. I started it. When I got to college, I bought my first time I think just off of Amazon. Other than that, I'd always camped in a tent and me, my friends would just say, hey, let's go Canyon set up our hammocks and sleep
Brennan: out there and do some fishing. And so and I just got used to. It just started getting really comfortable in my hammock and and it kind of went from there. I transitioned out of tents and more towards him and camping.
Tayson: Yeah. So, obviously a lot of our listeners are gonna back. Well, I can't sleep in a ball. I can't sleep in a hammock. And we'll, we'll dive into some of that as we go throughout the podcast. But talk to me about your progression. Maybe with like trying to stay warm in a hammock. Like when you first started, did you kind of already understand those Concepts or were you just like throughout a hammock and grab a blanket and
Brennan: went for it? So when I first started like when I first got to colleges more just a blanket or maybe sleep in my sleeping bag inside of my hammock. Summer before. So it would have been last summer. I got kind of more into Hammock Camping and more in the backpacking where it's gonna be on extended trips. And I just started Googling, you know, sleeping bag for hammock or and just wanted to see if there's any sleeping bags, specifically designed for him.
Brennan: Because I did have one really bad experience where I got super cold because you just had a sleeping bag how to set me back in my hand. Exactly. And like a blank, a thin blanket underneath me that I like rolled up on top of my backpack and it got down to like 28 degrees that night. We were up pretty high elevation and I got pretty cold. So I just started Googling and that's actually I found Outdoor Vitals on Amazon. I didn't
Brennan: even find the website. And I bought my first Airy and I fell in love with it. So most of the time I would usually just set up my area and I just like sleeping shorts. I'm a really warm sleeper so I used to just like sleep and shorts and a t-shirt inside of my Airy. Things got colder, I bought more expensive sleeping bags to sleep inside of a sleeping bag inside of my area. And and kind of progressed from there. So
Tayson: yeah. So you kind of went through a progression of better and better gear. I'd imagine getting warmer in your, in your hammock and and kind of finding your groove, right? So let me ask you this, are you a straight hammock camper or do you sleep on a diagonal? So I
Brennan: sleep straight in my hammock. I sleep pretty good and any position, I mean, I fall asleep in the shower lean against the wall. I've never really had a paw problem sleeping. I usually just curl up in my ball any position I can get comfortable in and then I'm good for the night.
Tayson: Yeah, yeah. That's that's pretty intense when I sleep straight. I do have to take a pillow or a jacket or something, and put it behind my knees. Just helps me to not hyper extend and it also kind of changed the positioning of my back, make it makes it quite comfortable but I flip back and forth between diagonal and straight typically I'm going diagonal these days but there's definitely times in places where straights a better option for me too. But Just out
Tayson: of curiosity. If you ever tried diagonal or not really,
Brennan: I have tried to die diagonal. Leaf for quite a while before I got super into like colder and Colder Weather hemp camping, I would have a double hammock and I'd sleep in my bag know cuz I could get a little bit flatter. I and I will be on. I know that this isn't everybody but I've been very blessed to where I can sleep pretty comfortably in any position. So I think one day my back will probably catch up with me and
Brennan: then I'll have to figure something out from there, but for now it's just me and my ball and my hammock,
Tayson: you know, You never know whenever we go out with Derek, it doesn't matter. All of us could like take a unanimous vote that Derek has like the worst sleep setup. Or there's no way sleeping comfortable whether he's in a hammock or on the ground and every morning we get up and like, Derek had just sleep last night and he's like, oh, slept great. It was phenomenal.
Brennan: Like how was this possible? But a lot of that has to deal with Derek attitude, every time I ask him, how he's doing in the office, I was just living the dream. No matter how stressful is the day, is he's just got a good attitude about life. So
Tayson: he does, he's got an exceptionally positive attitude out everything. So he's awesome. All right, so if we've talked a little bit about your preferences, how you got into it? It sounds like it was a real social thing, which I think a lot of our listeners can relate to Hammock, Camping can be extremely social. It's ton of fun. Whether you're going out like with your family and you throw a hammock in the in the car, whether you are Went out with friends
Tayson: or like whether you're staying the night whether or not, I think hammocks can be really, really social and that's how a lot of people get introduced to them. And then typically like your story, I've heard that a million times what they try to sleep, just in a normal hammock and then they get cold and then they, you know, then they get down this Rabbit Hole so kind of jump back into the main the main story here of you know, sleeping 55
Tayson: out of 109 days in your hammock for no, no good apparent reason. But you said that you'd found an area on Amazon Which for those who don't know, an area is a, we call it our five in one bag. Essentially it's a rectangular sleeping bag that's compatible with a hammock. You can use it as an under quilt. You just as a pod you can open it up. Use it like a blanket, but it's kind of a jack of all trades. Probably
Tayson: a master of none, but it's just a bag that I kind of feel like everyone needs it for just, just being able to apply it to a bunch of different situations but anyway so you're sleeping. You did you have the Airy when you first started this endeavor I did
Brennan: okay I had the air when I first started this. So I bought the Airy at the beginning of that summer and used it a few times. My family lives in Texas. I bounce back and forth between there. But when I was here in Utah, I was used to the hot weather. So I got here and it get down to like, 40 in the mountains and I felt like, I needed my area. So so when you started
Tayson: out are you, are you sleeping in the mountains, every night or where are you sleeping?
Brennan: When I first started out it was in the mountains with friends. So this definitely started out as like you said, a more of a social thing and then as I kind of took the challenge upon myself and it got colder and colder. My friends started abandoning me. And
Tayson: did they commit to this goal? Or was it just always just me but I would always invite friends like, hey, let's go
Brennan: up the mountain and I'll probably spend the night there. You're welcome to spend the night but um, so it started mostly up the canyon and then as it got colder and colder is just like I just need to be outside of my hammock somewhere. So the colder and colder, got the less, I went up the canyon and my friend had a Jeep and I had a Nissan Xterra at the time for those of you that don't know. What they are. It's
Brennan: similar to a Jeep but they had rails on them and so I just put them pretty far apart in our parking lot and hang my hammock in between them. So I was close to my house if I needed anything to to stay warm and then as it got colder and colder, I jump inside and grab an extra blanket, or grab an old sleeping bag and and just try to stay warm throughout the night. But that way is a little bit closer
Brennan: to my house for convenience. Yeah.
Tayson: Was there ever a time when you started to question like why you're doing this? Like what Like to get hard do you hard? I
Brennan: don't think I really questioned it once. I kind of set my mind to something I'm gonna do it. I got down to where I needed like Three more days. and it was like the first week of December and I was like, It's gonna be cold. And so I just decided that week. I was just gonna try to sleep like every other day for those three days and the parking lot of my apartment complex. And just as I got colder, just top
Brennan: inside and grab some stuff but I don't think I really questioned my motivation just because I had set. I was going to do it so I was going to do it but it was not easy. Let me be on us, it's supposed to be one. You go inside to grab something to stay warm and you just feel how warm it is inside. It's like very it was very hard to go back out and hop back in my hand, making it recitation and everything like that.
Tayson: So, I can imagine. So tell us a little bit about. I mean you had an Airy 20, right? And every 20.
Tayson: Yeah, at that point in time we we didn't make an Aries zero. It wasn't wasn't available wasn't a thing. So you got an array 20, how cold did it get down to?
Brennan: So the coldest I think the actual temperature was like 11 degrees with wind chill, my phone said two degrees. So that was my coldest night. That was the last night that I did and it was like December 9th. Yeah, so
Brennan: the semester ended on the 13th that was my last day of finals and that night I started with Zero degrees sleeping bad that I had from Scouts. And then I just kind of curled up in a ball with my area around me, and I ended up was your head, like in the area inside of the area. Yep. Inside of the area inside of a down jacket, with the beanie on and a face mask. And I was cold, and I got about
Brennan: two in the morning and it got really, really cold. I didn't even check my phone, I left my phone inside, I got cold and I ended up going inside of my apartment and grabbing like, another old scout sleeping bag like a 30 degree one and unzipping it and using it like an extra blanket and I got an extra pair of, like, fleece gloves to put underneath, like, my skiing gloves and that got me through the night. I didn't sleep great, but
Brennan: I made it to 6:30 when I usually get up and went, took a hot shower, right away. So, did, did you? I mean, I'd imagine you're getting cold
Tayson: everywhere, but, did you notice anything in particular of where you're getting cold? Was it underneath like, was that really? Because I mean, you're really pushing past the limits of what that that bag was designed to do my feet got cold. So I ended up
Brennan: For those of you that have never used an Airy, we have a different bag here, Outdoor Vitals called The Mummy pod, and they have like a foot box that you can stuff in to kind of block the air gap that you would that's created by your hammock when you're sleeping there. And I actually ended up duct taping that Circle closed with like a jacket and like a little like a few pillowcases all in there to try to keep it warm and
Brennan: I duct tape it closed but my feet got pretty cold. So I ended up throwing on like wool socks and then like shoes over the top and putting like little dish towels around my feet.
Tayson: You got very creative. Yeah,
Brennan: I just worked with what I had and I have a whole lot so that sleeping in a hammock. You wouldn't think you can fit three sleeping bags in there but you can't, I promise. So
Tayson: Yeah. I I mean, first off for those of you that do have an area and have any interest in doing something like this, there is a video that we created years and years ago. Go check that out to try to help seal the end. It helps, it's not perfect again. The Aries really a jack of all trades. If you really would want to get into Hammock Camping, like exclusively should definitely look at our top quilts, and under quilts, or our mummy
Tayson: pod, like Brandon was just saying, they're, they're just a more all-encompassing system. But yeah, I I slept in a hammock snow cave once in the area. In fact, there's there's another YouTube video you can go check out on our YouTube channel. That's outdoor, vitals YouTube channel. And we dug out like this trench and I hung a hammock down through this trench, put a tarp over the top and then slept with just an Airy I didn't get 11 degrees though. I'm I'd
Tayson: have, I'd have to watch that video again but I'm pretty sure it was 17 degrees is what we hit. And I remember feeling on the cold side but I had a sleeping bag right underneath, my hammock. And I never pulled it out. It's like my failsafe my backup, but I wouldn't say I was like, comfortable in a vanity that every night of the year. But it is kind of impressive. What you can do with just an Airy and and special. If
Tayson: you start, you know, adding duct tape and dish towels. So,
Brennan: yeah, it all worked out so I'm glad I did it.
Tayson: No, it's awesome. Well, I I just thought that was really unique story and I hope that maybe it inspires some of you to look at him at camping because it's really a fun thing to do. I know on our videos lately, I haven't I personally haven't been Hammock Camping as much lately. A lot of the prototypes and things that I've been needing to test. Have been on the ground. You know, our new trekking pole tent, our Here's a different paths that
Tayson: were kind of trying to work on. We've had redesigns on different sleeping bags and we just haven't had as much new stuff around hammocks, but I do plan to bust out the hammock in the winter actually, which is kind of counterintuitive to what I typically preach, but and get back in it, which is fun. So hopefully this is kind of inspiring for anyone who has any desire to go try him at camping, you can definitely give it a shot and it
Tayson: can be a ton of fun, and you can definitely do it right. But but I wanted to take a minute to talk about some of the fundamentals and basics of him and camping, which we, which we kind of did is we went. But the first thing I would say that people don't understand about hammocks is just that you have to insulate, the underside of the hammock. If you don't, you are always going to get cold butt syndrome. That's, that's kind of
Tayson: the the term that the general hammock Community uses. You know, getting getting cold, but syndrome. So, you want to make sure you have the insulation preferably on the outside of your ham. So it can stay fully lofted trap all the air but you also want it to be nice and tight up against the hammock and that's gonna that's gonna create a lot of warmth. Now, you might be saying, well, I don't know if I want to invest in an under quilt
Tayson: or Mommy pot or an area or these different options, can I just take a sleeping pad and put it in my hammock? The answer to that is yes but it will never be what you want it to be. So if you want to try Hammock Camping out, I would say, yeah, give that a shot but just know that it's not a it's not going to be a long-term solution if you plan to spend an excessive amount of time in your hammock
Tayson: and by excessive I mean like more than a couple nights a year. Yeah. I testify that I have, you ever tried throwing a pad in a hammock and doing that?
Brennan: I haven't done any of the inflatable pads. I did have like some foam pads that my family had, and I've tried to throw in and it's just not as comfortable as it sounds like
Tayson: it's gonna be. Yeah, it's both not as comfortable and all. So, Use your pad off and like you wake up in the middle of the night. Your pads halfway on the ground. You're you're cold in the sections. So, anyway, so that's kind of tip number one. If you are gonna give this a shot, try to make sure you're insulated or that it's warm enough outside. Warm enough outside to me means, like 60s or high 50s at the coldest before. You really
Tayson: need that insulation. Another big thing is, a lot of you guys will be thinking like it never sleep in a hammock. It's just this bow shape. Like my back would be curved and bent and it just doesn't sound comfortable at all. And to that, I have two responses. Number one, and probably, and definitely, the more popular option on the market, or in the forums, or in communities is to sleep on a diagonal. What that means is if you're the two trees
Tayson: that you're connected to, instead of putting your feet, right directed at one and your head directed at the other, you offset where you point, your fees, your feet off to the side of where that tree is in your head off to the other side, not a full like 90 degree angle but I don't know. I'm just gonna throw out a number like 20 degree angle and what that allows you to do is lay at a nearly flat level in, your hammock
Tayson: creates a lot less Boeing. And I personally like, if you this is where recording this, we may put some clips on our YouTube channel, but if you can see me today, my back is like, I don't know what I did to it, but I need to go home and do some stretching and Rehab. So I'm someone who is definitely had, and has and deals with back problems, from time to time. If I don't Top of all of my stretching and I
Tayson: can tell you right now that I sleep great and a hammock, even with low back problems. So, Getting on a diagonal, is option. Number one, option number two is, you can sleep straight, you know, with your feet pointed at the tree, your head pointed at the other tree. But like I mentioned in here, you're going to want to take like an inflatable pillow or a jacket and put it underneath your knees so that it kind of bends your knees and you're
Tayson: able to not hyperextend but also when you do that it kind of changes the ark and the pitch of your back and it makes it a lot more comfortable. I had one more thing I was going to say there but I think it's gonna slip my mind anyway. So those are kind of the two main positions with the that's going to just help you lay flatter. If you're concerned at all like you could never sleep in the hammock. The last thing
Tayson: I would probably say is, just making sure you get a correct pitch. I would never take a hammock on like a big trip without experimenting beforehand and that's half of the fun of the hammock. It's kind of like the alcohol stove, guys, like I've become an alcohol stove guy. Yes, it's lighter. It's more practical. It's just to me, it's just a better system, but half of it is also because I just enjoy being a pyro and playing around with things and
Tayson: figuring out how much fuel I need or whatever it is. It's it's fun to me and it's kind of the same with the hammocks is make sure that you do some up front, research and development in your own backyard or wherever you can to try to learn how to pitch it, get the right angles and we have some videos and some other material out there. About exactly how to pitch and hang and set everything up to be the most comfortable, but
Tayson: that's really what I wanted to kind of touch on is just those tips. Was there any tips that you thought of, as kind of jumping through? Just those, those few
Brennan: my tips for is just get outside and do it kind of like you were saying, I know that there's a lot of things where they say, like hanging on a 30 degree or make sure you have a rage line to make sure you hammock straight. But everybody's different, like I said, I sleep in a ball on a hammock and I sleep great. So I don't think you'll ever find out unless you just go try it. Like you said, set it up
Brennan: in your backyard or for me, I was sleeping in between two cars and a college apartment complex. So just the more you do it, I think you'll find that there is a way that you can sleep in a hammock, whether it's on a straight or on a diagonal, or having a pattern underneath you to try to create some comfort. You'll find a way if you just go outside and start experimenting.
Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, I can definitely attest and agree to that. Once you figure out how to make Camp, there are some real pros to it. So there is a point in time when I was I had a Basically, I was sleeping, I slept outside 13 out of 17 days and I knew ahead of time, this was going to happen. I was planning for it as prepping for it. And I decided and of course, you know, owning a backpacking gear company. I, I
Tayson: can choose whatever setup you can imagine to take with me. And during that time, I, it was, it was in the more summer months August and I specifically chose to use a 30 degree top and under quilt in a hammock over every other setup. even though I probably could have shaved off another eight Oz half pound or so, by going on the ground and doing some different things there, I chose to go with the hammock because one I was going to
Tayson: be moving Camp every night and So I really liked and I didn't have pre-planned campsites, sometimes I could be on the side of a mountain when I was like, all right, I'm done other times, you know, I would be in a flat perfect Campground just never know. But I always like that no matter what, my hammock set up was consistent. Once I, you know, had learned how to hang my hammock. The way I wanted and set up the way I wanted
Tayson: and all those different things didn't matter. If it was midnight or six and the afternoon, I could hang that hammock up the same. Every time they get very, very consistent sleep. And to me that is the biggest Pro of a hammock. So we're gonna go ahead and wrap this up. I hope that this was Thought-provoking for all of the live Ultra listeners. Hannah camping is a blast. It's something I would advise everyone give a shot, whether you just pick up a
Tayson: hammock and start playing around with it and then later decide if you'd want to spend nights in it or not, it is fun. It's just a blast, it's social, get a couple of them, you know, get your friends or your kids or your families out there and and, you know, hang out in hammocks, it's just always a good time so much so that you Brennan decided to spend 55 out of 100 and 9 days in your hammock. Yep.
Brennan: I did it and I wouldn't recommend it. So,
Tayson: That's that's ourselves pitch. We're gonna leave it at that? No, no. I just, I just want to take the second here, Brandon to just publicly. Thank you. You've been shipping, a lot of packages. You're just finishing up your accounting degree, headed off to Deloitte Deloitte correct here pretty soon. And yeah, we've just really appreciated having you here to help us out. We've had a crazy busy year this year with covid and yeah, lots and lots and lots of packages and other
Tayson: things that you've got up the door to our customers. So I'm sure they're all appreciative of that too. But thanks for coming on the podcast. Thanks for, you know, being a part of the movement here at vitals and keep living ultralight. We'll see you guys on the next episode. Make sure if you have not reviewed the podcast, make sure to go review it. If you found value in this, take a little screenshot, share it on your social media tag Us in
Tayson: it. Let's keep spreading the word. The podcast has been doing awesome. We started to Peak the charts on iTunes, and we're just really stoked about how many of you guys are downloading and listening to this. So we appreciate it. Let us know what other content you want to hear from us. We've got some more coming on, some of the, more technical side with Fabrics, we'll Brigham back on, and touch on that. But yeah, thanks for being here. Thanks for listening.
Tayson: Thanks. Brandon for being on and we'll catch you guys on the next episode. Thanks Overview Drive. Hey everybody. This is Tayson again. And really quick. I wanted to invite you to join, probably the best thing that we've ever put out which is the Live Ultralight membership, buying and affording gear is arguably. The biggest reason that people don't get out and truly enjoy nature. You want to go but you don't trust your gear. It can't handle the expected, weather, or temperature ranges,
Tayson: or you simply don't have the right gear in the first place at all. That's exactly why we created the level of choice membership. It works a lot. Like a simple savings account for your gear. You simply Auto load 10 dollars, with store credit into your account every month, and you get instant access to year-round discounts, you get free priority, shipping and prioritize shipping. By the way, early access to New Gear, the world releasing or early access to sells that are going
Tayson: on, you're gonna get limited edition gear. You're going to get expert coaching, and access to the obtained inside our closed, Facebook group, which is also gated not, anyone can join this, right? And something very, very cool where you can now get our most vetted, our favorite gear from other brands that we're not putting on the website but members are going to get it at additional discounts and instant rebates. So, You wanted that new cation, water filter that we've been talking about
Tayson: a ton lately. You can get it with your membership credits. And you're also going to get with a membership discount and an instant store credit rebate, that's just Auto added to your account. After checkup, this membership has too many amazing things to cover. So what I want to recommend you do right now is stop everything. Pause this audio head over to Outer vitals.com forward slash membership to sign up and start building your credit. We're going to release some new products in
Tayson: there really soon at Big discounts. So go sign up today at Outdoor Vitals.com forward slash membership, and we will catch up inside the closed, Facebook group after that we can continue this conversation over there.
