Tayson: So here's the big question, how
Brigham: do we lighten our gear and build our confidence so that we can start living a life full of Outdoor Adventures and memories without having unlimited amounts of time, money and previous experience. That's the big question and we are here to help you find the answers. This is the little trolley podcast power, bi Outdoor Vitals. Hey what's up obviously tribe? Thanks for joining us today on the Live Ultralight podcast for super stoked to be back with you. I've got Brigham here in
Brigham: studio and we're going to be talking about something pertaining to the business and why we do the things that we do. We're specifically doing this because we've got some things in the pipeline. So today, the topic at hand is, why do we share so many details about all of our products? Like, why are we willing to tell you? So, the in-depth nature of the, the fabrics, and the lines and and all of the prototyping type stuff. And All of the ins
Brigham: and outs of what makes our products, our products, you know, fill them out and insulation. And there's a trend right now that we have seen that, a lot of other brands out there no longer do this. So the question would be, why are we willing to do it? And why are they not? And that's the topic that we're going to be attacking today. Because The next three podcasts I believe are all going to be product deep, Dives. We're going to be
Brigham: talking about Well, I Won't Give It Away, you'll have to subscribe and tune in to what's coming, but we're gonna be talking in depth about some products that we are releasing bringing to Market and really just diving into the nitty-gritty on everything, everything that we can think of about the story of Designing those products, why we created, and why we chose to do it this way. The Fabrics, why we chose this fabric, why we chose to do this way, the factories
Brigham: that everything that we can, because we feel here at revital is that transparency is a huge part. We feel that we've turned a corner into educated consumers and we've we know that, you know, fear is a lack of knowledge. And so anytime we can give you confidence by telling you these stories, we want to do it and we want you to be the educated ones, not some repetitive store somewhere. We want you to have confidence in your gear when you go
Brigham: to hit the trail because you've done your homework and let's face it. We geek out about this stuff. We love to talk product. We love to talk shop and if you're listening to this, you probably do too. So without further ado, let's just jump right in. So Brigham. We've noticed this trend we've seen this trend that we'll be talking about a product in the outdoor industry and we're we're interested about it. Like, man. I wonder what they do for this and
Brigham: we'll pull up in the website. And what do we find every time?
Tayson: We find very little. it's You know, we're we live in the same world as our customers. So, we're constantly shopping online. We're constantly looking at everything that's out there and so we can put ourselves in the shoes of a consumer, even our own customers. And just say, like what are they thinking when they go to this website? That's that's me and you as well. So you know, and I go to a website and I want to find details about a product
Tayson: that we're talking about at work or something, you know? And Just find very general details that are not nearly as specific as we want to find out that they're just not. Just doesn't give me. I guess confidence in that product or I don't know, just kind of bugs me that I want to find out the actual specs, the actual details, what are the actual materials? What's the composition of this? And a lot of times we just can't find it. All right,
Tayson: so let's just look for something from a major
Brigham: brand company that and just see what kind of details they're going to give us. so let's start with with apparel that seems to be where we've been probably having a lot of these conversations on more recently going to Outdoor Research and let me go to Their new helium rain jacket. And see if they give us any information on this piece, kind of say what accolades. It has a little bit of information. All right, so text specs. 2.5 layer, 100% nylon 30d
Brigham: ripstop. So pretty good information. I'm trying to see here. This is rain jacket. So it should give me the hydrostatic head. I don't see that, there's no hydrostatic head. So that's a big deal to me because the rain jacket it is right. You can have yeah. 60,000 you could have 3,000. It's a significantly significantly different number there. So Outdoor Research I'm going to say you know that's a that's a big one and it makes me wonder are you not putting it
Brigham: on there to hide it? Maybe it's really low to increase breathability
Tayson: or to save costs. Yeah maybe I was wondering about looking at some backpacks trying to think who we could look at some backpacks from all right. So I'm on Gregory's website and let's look at
Brigham: some of their newer stuff I think one of their newer ones that I've heard about. Is the well, the maven. It's a woman pack and a paragon. So, go Paragon 58. Let's see what they What they tell us here. So, 3D foam, breathable, back panel specs, tell me if this means anything to you. Brigham frame type perimeter wire suspension, technology. Free floating hybrid gives you some adjustable and fit information. Here we go. Materials 100% nylon bought a pack Body 100 D,
Brigham: nylon high density 210 high density, nylon bottom 420 high density. Nylon and lining recycled 135 D polyester. Extension lifespan EVA foam. That's a pretty good one. To look at they're giving you some information, right? But they didn't really say much about beyond that. Now, to our knowledge, most of the time Gregory is using aerobic fabric, correct? So what we've seen? Story. It's been their most part.
Brigham: Yeah. Yeah. But in here, they're not calling that out. And so that to me kind of becomes concerning I guess because I want to know is this just a random nylon or is it not in fact today earlier today we had a conversation about this, right? We were looking at backpack fabrics and one of well our fabric meals sent us over some Some options, right? And you ask them to quote you those numbers. And what did what did they tell you?
Tayson: Yeah. Well, So we'll get a giant book. That's got, you know, like 100. I don't know. Around 100 Fabrica little samples of all these Fabrics. And this is that basically represents what they have. Used more often than anything else.
Brigham: This is like the Fabrics. They run call it. Yeah. Off the shelf
Tayson: it's like stuff that's mostly readily available that they They have dialed in basically and so yes. So when I got kind of some price quoting on what I thought was a pretty good variety of fabrics that were appropriate for the project so it's not going to be a demo if it's for a backpack, right? But I think there were like eight or nine fabrics and when they were of like, varying deniers, right? So anywhere from like a 210 up to a
Tayson: 420, but the price and that gave me, they were all like within a dollar of each other per yard. And it was very low. I'll never like divulge exactly the cost of our specific materials but in that selection of materials, the price per yard was all between two and three dollars per yard. And one of the things that got me thinking about in relation to this conversation was we have done the best job of pointing out websites that don't have good
Tayson: information. Luckily they've done well and that's what the consumer should expect. But back to what I was saying. The point is Why should our customer pay attention to that? Well. Here's why. Because if a manufacturer or a brand isn't specifically giving you Detailed information. it's likely, because A they just asked their Factory to do what is called like locally sourced. The fabric locally sourced, the materials or just use off the shelf materials that are within this parameter like say. We just
Tayson: need a fabric between 200 and 300 denier or between this weight category of fabric, just use whatever is available. Now I think most high quality Brands probably don't do that. But what I'm saying is, if you're researching a product and you can't find really specific information about it, then likely they turn to the book like one of our books that we get from various suppliers and they just selected. Maybe five materials, five fabric options, email, their supplier. Just like I do
Tayson: and said, hey, give me a cost breakdown on these and then they make a decision and that decision may be based on price, or how great of a deal. They can work in. If they hit a certain amount of minimum yardage, and, Performance of the fabric is kind of taking a back seat in that situation. So, where for example, we specifically have fabric made for a project, exactly how we want it that fabric costs more than twice as much as anything
Tayson: I just Talked about, right? Well. To me that represents a value for
Brigham: the coronavirus that really quick though. From what you from the examples. You said this this morning and what you just said, literally our fabric for the backpack, the one that we're likely going to move forward with at this point and we'll, we'll divulge this. In the future, but for a different project, right? Is double double the cost. Yeah. Okay. Just making sure.
Tayson: Yeah, well and then other products. It's triple the cost. Talk about dragonwall triple it. Well even like even the the Shadowlight, you know, triple the cost of anything in those books because it's not in the book, that's the point, right? And so,
Tayson: we're not asking for something that's readily available. We're just specifically requesting certain quality points and certain materials. and, Oh, there's a lot that goes into that cost. But yeah, so for the customer that should raise an eyebrow and that's why we do this. Like you said at the beginning, like we just want people to be educated and To. To have the confidence to do the research but also know what to look for in their research. And so this is kind of
Tayson: like, one of those things. We're just trying to throw out there is pay attention. To how much detail there is or isn't because it says something. And I'm glad that we've been able to find examples today that were good because that's in my opinion. That's how everybody should be.
Brigham: But yeah, it does not always pan out that way we've we saw some that that we found plenty of information and others. I like this happens frequently like I swear we'll be looking into a new Option, will look up some things and we just can't find any information. And it's really when we think about like why would you buy this product? There's zero information. You're basically buying off the Goodwill of their name or, you know, if they have them or views
Brigham: and things like that and and those are decent indicators. But it's not the whole story even going back to like that Gregory piece. They're I to my knowledge I would assume they're using Robuck fabric but there are very reputable brand and so you you kind of have to assume that they're going to be using something very quality but the more you can attach a name to a specific fabric like like for instance our pants and they're using Torrey fabric. It should
Brigham: in a customer in steel confidence because, you know, as someone who's produced product and who started a company bootstrap and didn't have connections and didn't have all those things in the very beginning, especially we've pulled off the shelf fabrics and we seem vastly different quality levels in the off-the-shelf Fabrics versus sourced with the factory versus sourced outside. The factory. It's kind of three steps. I feel like you show up to a factor and you say build this and they build it
Brigham: and they Source everything. There's the next level where it's like you show up to factory and say all right, maybe That's what we want. But give us, give us some some breakdowns on different products. And sometimes they'll just straight up, say, hey, this is the cheapest option mid-range where we can connect you with some specialty factories and in the past, yet again, you know, and in previous campaigns and projects that I've worked on, you know, pre-break them, I would kind of
Brigham: say hey take take the best. Fabric Source without us going and finding themselves and and we'll roll forward with something like that but there's vastly varying situations there. But the more information you can find the more confidence that should instill with you. Because if something goes wrong with our pan fabric, it's easy for us as a brand to instantly go back and say Torre you messed up like to hold someone accountable exactly and that means all the difference in the world
Brigham: because their name is on the line. They love that we say their name and that we push them but they also know that if they mess up they probably gonna get talked about for that is well so it's a it's a very good situation when you have more and more and more information available.
Tayson: Yeah totally. I and That's why we're. Pushing so hard in the direction that we are like you alluded to in the beginning. You can't really fall how you started. I mean, because when you're just trying to get started and and get products out there, you don't have connections and and and and relationships and connections are huge in this industry in pushing quality levels. So, but that is why we're doing what we're doing and putting such an emphasis on that now is
Tayson: because we are building that ability to and because really, in the end, that's what we want. We want to be able to deliberately Select every material that's on our product. And so that doesn't mean that we will. Night and day be able to do that every time for every product and that, there's maybe products that we have now that we haven't been able to do that to the same degree. But that's Just something. We're all of these always working toward
Brigham: Yeah, so let me ask this, this is going to be a hard question, but let me get your opinion on this. I kind of alluded to the fact that some of these companies can just use their good name and get by without giving out details, right? It's like, hey, we're Patagonia, let's just say which they're not They don't really fall into this, but for an example. They might say something. You know like we're Patagonia we don't really need to give the
Brigham: details, people just know like and trust us and you know reviews are always good. We have a cult like falling or amazing For someone like us, that doesn't have that, you know, we're getting these details, maybe two and still confidence. Do you think that that will change as we get bigger? Do you think that there will be a push for us? Even you know, let's say once we do double or triple from where we are now and we just feel like
Brigham: we have a bigger name in the industry and so on so forth. Are we going to stop doing what we do right now?
Tayson: With giving the detail. I would say no, I have zero interest in doing that, I just think On one side, that's not really beneficial to us. I was doing the way things, the way we do them. Should like make the competition. You know, kind of pay attention and want to and want to do the same thing because competition breeds a good product. So Yeah, I I don't I don't see why I would want to stop doing that.
Brigham: Yeah, I don't either. I think I think it really does come back to the way that we see things and US wanting to perpetuate knowledge and transparency and confidence and, and things that nature to to help you out on the trail. And because we expect our followers to hold us to a higher bar and to expect that type of thing from us. But it's an interesting to think about, you know, you've gotten bigger, this is a topic that's come up, multiple
Brigham: times recently. I don't know, maybe we've talked about on the podcast, everything's a blur. This past couple months without busy, we've been, but People copying us. People ripping us off watching us and you know, that that was a thing in the very beginning. There's kind of one specific company that would just rip off every single thing that I did, and we won't name names, but I'm sure if you've done any homework, you know, and that man, that bugged me, but I
Brigham: was just kind of was like, you know what, we just gotta put our head down and just, just Keep working, and eventually they'll Fade to the background. And I feel like they have for the most part. But Now I feel like more and more people are paying attention to us. We launched loftek, you know, hybrid or excuse me Loft, taking isolation and I saw pop up on some other websites and I saw people making quilts out of it or different things
Brigham: and and maybe it wasn't Loft Tech. They don't call it Loft Tech or this or that but I feel like we brought a ton of awareness to this insulation and the technology. You know, we're kind of first to Market with it and but there's just things that come up like this that do make us feel like people are paying attention to us. See different branding, you know, she's the ads. You know we've we've done pretty good. Well with our marketing and
Brigham: suddenly someone pops up with the same ad or the same different thing and so we are getting watched now and that that can fill kind of scary. I feel like Um, but I mean, does that change anything, you think Brigham?
Tayson: to me, it doesn't like I said, I think, I think it's a good thing in terms of The product because then it just pushes us more. I mean, pushes me more personally for my job, you know what I mean? So, yeah, it's it can be frustrating, it can be maybe a little bit of a stumbling block, I don't know if it necessarily has been I'm just speculating that it could be but in the end, it it's not going to make me
Tayson: feel like oh, we should probably guard things a little more and be a little more, a little more secretive about Stuff,
Brigham: it makes you think. About it though. Because yeah, it does like we talked about like a patent is the old man, right? Like we're we're looking at pads and the xterm came up. Like, man, if you could have a patent on anything in the outer industry, that would probably be the product to have the patent, hold that patent for because I swear, they're just kind of printing money with that for so many years. It's been such a Timeless design and the
Brigham: patent has helped with that. But you look at our stuff and it's like, man, it can start to feel exhausting to have to redesign things so quickly, and to stay so fresh constantly. And you can see why let's say it's a big company or a venture-backed company. Or someone like that you would be like you would want to release as little info as possible. So that you could have a product last longer before you need to go and redesign that product.
Brigham: So you can I can see it like if I'm pitching picturing ahead. I can see the appeal to that. But I would say the culture here for us is it's not how we work and you know, if we earn the business then we deserve the business. If we don't earn it, we're not going to try to bully our way per se or or do something like that to get the business back. Yeah,
Tayson: that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, definitely does. And another thing I just thought of was were a minority in terms of being a direct-to-consumer brand, right? So I think that's all. So another very strong compelling reason to do. Things. The way we do and to provide the information that we do is because we we need to give ourselves every Edge that we can and connecting with customers is a big advantage. The way I see it. So, when we can make a podcast
Tayson: right now talking about Our materials or or we've done in the past, our suppliers, our partners, and things like that. whereas, if you're a retail brand, a giant brand, you've got little reps all over the country, you know, working on commission, trying to push your brand because they're the manager of that retail store gets a bonus based on how they push a certain brand. And each individual sales, person in the store gets a little something. Hey, when you check out, let
Tayson: them know, James helps. You know what I mean? Like, that kind of thing like so, these big giant Brands, they have a lot of tools in place to push their product, where I feel like Our tool is like our transparency. Our tool is the details. It is telling people Listen, this backpack is made out of a custom-made Robux, Spectra yard. So it has a 100 denier robic nylon base, with the 200 denier, Spectra yarn ripstop, And we can go into all
Tayson: the details about that and to me that's a tool that gives us an advantage and helps us communicate quality to our customer instead of somebody that doesn't work for outdoor. Vitals selling our product,
Brigham: right? It's more like instead of pushing our product out there, we're trying to pull, or track people in to the product. Yeah.
Brigham: And it is, it's a, it's a different situation. it's a different way of going about it but but we like it, we love it and hopefully it's valuable to our consumers. So so, I think we've been around this a little bit, and the whole reason that we are attacking this and going after this is simply to Preface that we're about to do some deep Dives on products. We're about to go really deep on a few products that we designed earlier this
Brigham: year that you guys have all seen on pre-cell but we're hoping to put live on the website and allow you to basically order it in real time and we want to kind of an honor of going back to those. We want to take the time to go back through and talk about the design process on those. We want to take the time to go through every little details that, you know, exactly what you're getting. And if it really is, let's say,
Brigham: worth your money, or if it really is the best product for your trip or whatever that might be. So, Anyways, expect for those to come. I know this has been really popular in the past. We have, I would say more details more. We're gonna break things down a little bit further than we have in the past. And we're gonna get really down into the nitty-gritty. And so, just just to preface this just a little bit. We're going to take a full
Brigham: podcast to talk about the pants and the shorts. I'm going to be talking about the dragon wall and then we're even going to go into the shadow. Light pack. That's one that we did do a full, I don't know, our plus topic on, and I and we still missed things. They're still things that we didn't cover. So we're gonna be diving deep into those, stay tuned. We're super excited to bring those products and make them live on the website. We're actively
Brigham: shipping out Kickstarter orders as we speak. And soon, we'll be working on Indiegogo orders, but it is been crazy here between Black Friday, stacking up, and then all. So the kickstarter stuff coming in basically at the same time. So, thanks for bearing with us on that. And, you know, More or less being here through this process with us. We're working. Super hard to get it out. We're working. Super hard to make it available to everyone else and we're gonna dive deep.
Brigham: And let you guys know what these products are really made of. And hopefully, they'll stand up to your standards and result in another purchase, hopefully from us which is the full transparency, but also hope just makes you More prepared and more confident. That's really what so much of our stuff really boils back to anymore here. At vitals is trying to build your confidence and when you have confidence you're more likely to go out back later this week Brigham. We're going to
Brigham: be heading out and camping in some snow camping, some real cold temperatures. I don't know what it's gonna be, but I'd say there's potential to see single digits. Haven't checked the weather
Tayson: at all. I bet they're on. So I did that overnight or on Saturday when I got up in the morning, it was 10, 10 degrees. Yeah. So where did you go up the canyon here? Yep, just on top.
Brigham: Yeah, so I don't know if we'll be that high but I think it'll be really weather dependent depending on what the weather is but we could easily see single digits. And a lot of you guys probably maybe have never seen single digits but it's just all confidence in your gear. You know, you get the right layering system you get the right place and you'll be fine. So stay tuned for more on that. Stay tuned for on our YouTube channel. If you
Brigham: missed some of the videos over there, there's been some really good videos they've been really well, received and one Of the videos will be filming as we go out later this week is about talking about layering systems talking about winter backpacking and all that kind of stuff. So if you're interested in the layering systems and some of that and go make sure you subscribe to us on YouTube. So anything else? We need to wrap up or close with Brigham. I think
Brigham: we're good. Okay, well, with that, thanks for joining us today. Make sure you're subscribed. Make sure you leave us a review as well. That really does help us out. Share the podcast, if you can, and we'll catch you on the next one where we're going to dive deep into some products. Hey everybody. This is Tayson again. And really quick. I wanted to invite you to join, probably the best thing that we've ever put out which is the Live Ultralight membership, buying
Brigham: and affording gear is arguably. The biggest reason that people don't get out and truly enjoy nature. You want to go but you don't trust your gear. It can't handle the expected, weather, or temperature ranges, or you simply don't have the right gear in the first place at all. That's exactly why we created the level of choice membership. It works a lot. Like a simple savings account for your gear. You simply Auto load 10 dollars, with store credit into your account every
Brigham: month, and you get instant access to year-round discounts, you get free priority, shipping and prioritize shipping. By the way, early access to New Gear, the word, leasing or early access to cells that are going on. You can get limited edition gear, you're going to get expert coaching, and access to the obtained inside our closed, Facebook group, which is also gated not, anyone can join this, right? And something very, very cool where you can now get our most vetted, our favorite gear
Brigham: from other brands that we're not putting on the website but members are going to get it at additional discounts and instant rebates. So, If you wanted that new cation, water filter that we've been talking about a ton lately, you can get it with your membership credits and you're also gonna be able to get it with a membership discount and an instant store credit rebate, that's just Auto added to your account. After checkout. This membership has too many amazing things to cover.
Brigham: So what I want to recommend you do right now is stop everything. Pause this audio head over to Outer vitals.com forward slash membership to sign up and start building your credit. We're going to release some new products in there really soon at Big discounts. So go sign up today at Outdoor Vitals.com forward slash membership, and we will catch up inside the closed, Facebook group after that we can continue this conversation over there.
