EP 45 - How to Handle Wind on Your Backpacking Trips

Tayson: So here's the big question, how do we lighten our gear and build our confidence so that we can start living a life full of Outdoor Adventures and memories without having unlimited amounts of time, money and previous experience. That's the big question and we are here to help you find the answers. This is the little Troy podcast power, bi Outdoor Vitals. Hey welcome back to the Live Ultralight podcast. We're super excited to be back with you and we have a whole gang

Tayson: here in the studio. I'm like normal. When it's just me and Brigham talking at the mic here. We've got a few extras and we're gonna be talking about a trip that we just recently. Did you do a monthly trip? And so we're going to be talking through what we did some of our favorite piece of gear, some of our favorite parts, of the trip, things that we learned and all sorts of things trip related. So, to get started, we'll go

Tayson: around, have everyone introduce yourself and a little bit about what you do here. Starting with Brigham, everyone should know you and then moving on. Yep, Brigham gear designer. Derek, I pretty much live and breathe all things marketing and then occasionally get to Tinker around with Ikea furniture mostly Quality Furniture. Yes.

Brigham: And I'm Maddie and I deal with a lot of the customer service here at Outdoor Vitals.

Tayson: Just talking before we got started, what does Maddie do? Because she's got her hands in so many different things lately. So we're super stoked to bring Maddie on this trip. You could say Maddie and Derek are related to get into that whole debacle here but they're acquaintances at least and she she's been helping us around the office and join us on this trip. So we were super excited to have her. This particular trip was a quick one of our monthly trips,

Tayson: end up being left. The office about noon drove down into the desert and went into an area that's more widely known for mountain biking but has some really good views back towards design in and it's just some really pretty desert country. When we first got the trailhead, we basically hiked over towards a cliff and then we just got to border this Cliff as we walked into the area. But to paint the scene a little bit more. It is February here in

Tayson: southern Utah and I know that we're a long ways from Texas, but there was some talk about some Texas like weather hitting us. We had a nice cold, North Wind so kind of walk us through. Its kind of I'll have everyone pitch in here on what your setups were. I think we were all running satellite packs where we are running 60 liters for someone running a 45 out of 45 45. Okay, so just me have the extra gear And but we

Tayson: had some win and we were walking. So, let's just kind of briefly touch on what we were hiking in and how those systems worked out for us. So, starting with me, I was hiking with a with the Prototype piece of wool on and a Ventus Hoodie, but I had a prototype Ventus Hoodie that slightly different, so I won't touch too much on it, but that's the system worked really, really well for me. And then just some some Sawtooth pants, I started

Tayson: with the different jacket but quickly heated up. And removed some layers, but was able to hike the whole thing with the dentist. Brigham over, you rocking. So along with the backpack, I had a DragonWool hoodie. And on top of that, I was wearing actually a prototype rain jacket. There was no rain to be had at all, but it was good for the wind and it is good to test the breathability and like, how, how one would get along hiking

Tayson: in the sun, in the cold weather, and some wind with a rain jacket because you don't always want to take it off. So anyway, prototype range jacket and a dragon will hoodie. Do you guys ever do that to, like uses the windbreaker? Do you ever you guys ever use windbreakers? I I'll just use a rain jacket as you're in breaker. Yeah, never tried just a straight up. Windbreaker, you know, something that's not a rain jacket. I took one on a trip

Tayson: last year, in the snow shoe trip. Last year, right, we're in a Dragon Ball hoodie with just hold the wind jacket. Yeah. Yeah, I've never I don't know if I've used them enough or really use them. When I use is like a really inexpensive military surplus one. Yeah. So those very

Tayson: worth having or other just having a fan, I like it. Yeah, but it doesn't doesn't resist any moisture. Yeah. So trade-offs. So, would you still find a piece? Like would you still purchase another windbreaker? If you have if you have to have a rain jacket, would you still find it worthwhile to purchase a windbreaker? I still might just because they're they're the purpose of them is so they breathe much better than anything that's going to have any water resistance but and

Tayson: then what I have like its military surplus so it's overbuilt so where it probably weighs like eight Oz. Most wind shirts will weigh like three or four ounces. Yeah. So Yeah, I know, it's it's interesting. The rain jacket looked good though, Excited to keep moving that along. Derek Maddie, what were you guys rocking? I had a Dragon Ball hoodie and a vintage city which we, you know, I plan on releasing here shortly and then I just had the Shadowlight sought

Tayson: to pants. And some hiking boots. Do you want me to go into? Did you put a Pad in the shadow at the same. Yeah, this time. This time I put the backpack in. I didn't I mean, I don't know if I noticed that much of a difference. Okay, I'm giving him a hard time. I think we talked about this on our last one, but he got to like camp and realized that he didn't even have a back panel in the shuttle

Tayson: light. He grabbed one out of the office and it must have got pulled out for something. So glad you had all the components of the Shadows. Last time. This time I had all the stuff ready so it was it was good. It was comfy. Yeah. How was a free Maddie? I know this is a kind of your first outing with us and it was, I'm not gonna lie. It was a colder one than the normal I would say to get started.

Brigham: Yeah. So I wasn't expecting it to be as windy as it was. So I was wearing a long sleeve athletic shirt with the Prototype Venta City. The same one that tasted was talking about and then I just had leggings on the bottom which the wind cut through those like none other. And so, I was grateful that we catch walking and stayed pretty warm. I had some good socks and and she was wasn't too bad that way when you got to Camp

Brigham: taste in mentioned that I had a Snag a pair of the Satu Pants to keep a little warmer, I gave him a hard time. Like, oh, I'm fine, but I was not really that fine when we were stopped at Camp. It was pretty,

Tayson: pretty cold. I was just thinking in my head if I was wearing nothing but like the dragon wolf orals, I would have been cold. So I'm like, that's got to be how you always wondered about that. I just look at like leggings and makes me I was freezing. So, like, how you were feeling?

Brigham: Yeah, when we got to camp. And I put that second layer, those thermals on that helped a lot, but And I was surprised at how well, the event is Hoodie did warm, like, having that hood on over my head was just like game changer for the whole hiking out there just really cut out the wind for me.

Tayson: So, were you wearing a men's version of event Associated? Or was it women's specific?

Brigham: I think it was limited specific, right?

Tayson: It's one of the draw that. Yeah. Our developed. How does that exist?

Brigham: Oh, I love the fit. That was one. Comment. When Bergen said, hey, you should you should wear this prototype. I was like, yes, I was so excited because he's had me. Try it on before in the office and

Tayson: I showed it to her a while ago. Actually Json into that at Maddie's my wife so all you guys listening out there if you want to find a cute girl to go hiking with with you gotta find another one. I got it but Showed her the Ventus is, you know, bringing him and chasing him and working on developing that and getting familiar with that. So we can get that to you guys as quick as possible. Anyways, she was bugging me all

Tayson: the time after that saying, hey, Whenever you're able to, you got it. You gotta get me one of those. First thing to say, when I wake up in the morning, right? Sometimes she just like the fit that much and how it looked. So she got to actually You know, Brigham's like well, we got a prototype that we can't sell because it's prototype and he said, you just keep it. And choose pumped about it.

Brigham: Yeah. I will say in personal experience, it's been pretty difficult to find something that that hits all the right spots fit wise in a hoodie, you know, you don't want it like too oversized, at least in my personal taste, especially for hiking and things. but, I I really think we hit the mark with this one. I will Brigham and Jason. I I just tried it on.

Tayson: I did. Brigham can have the credit. So, a couple things I want to touch on is we're getting in. There is one I want to touch on kind of the views we're seeing and just how spectacularly, where, but before we maybe move into that aspect. We mentioned the wind and so I wanted to just throw some tips out there and some thoughts out there for hiking in the wind specialty. Like that was like a North Wind which down here that

Tayson: just it's always just a cold wind if it's coming from the north and it was not normal. You know, we didn't choose these dates based off of what the weather looks like. I'll just say it that way. Like this, probably the worst dates, some of the worst states. We could have gone. All winter for this particular area days later. It was 60 degrees. Yes. And when we left the truck, it was in the 30s. So maybe maybe it hit 40 at

Tayson: the high, I think in the day. But so, so let's just talk really quickly about what, what we found that works. And when that's kind of why I was quizzing, you a little bit on like a wind stopper, versus a rain jacket. But yeah, I mean, I guess we'll start with you. Brigham? As far as just, what are things that people should look for when they're hiking in the wind, what, what's like, what's the dudes and what's the don'ts for clothing?

Tayson: Well, I mean not too scientific. We want a fabric that is There's a lot of things that can stop when that doesn't mean you want to hike in them. So, that's a purpose built win shirt or wind jacket is gonna have A fairly. Like dense. But it can still be very lightweight but it's woven densely enough for tightly enough that it will block the wind, but it's but it's not doesn't have any kind of waterproof membrane or coating on it so

Tayson: that you can do they usually have no coating whatsoever? Yeah. So Um yeah just so that you can breathe and remain highly active. So a hood is a huge help for the win because like even if it's sunny or like 40 degrees and it's blowing, like 40 degrees with wind is cold, and it'll pull a lot of heat out of your ears and make your ears cold and give you a headache and So Hood is definitely something you want to look

Tayson: for. And then you know like we were talking about sometimes really did you say, give you a headache you set up. Yeah. From like the cold cold wind never happened to you before. You never had like a cold head like freezer brain. Yeah, yes. It's like for me ice cream. Except it's like ongoing because you never get cold ears or like, okay, cold ears. But I have never linked that to getting a headache. Let's just part of your head. Yeah, that's

Tayson: all I'm saying. I'm not saying that, like, I had never thought, like if your heads up in the cold too long, it could result in a headache when you feel if you're out running in the morning or something and it's cold okay? And you got that are going by whether it's wind or just are moving past your ears if they're uncovered you just start. It's like a normal headache. Yeah. At least we're just starts pounding because your ears get so cold

Tayson: and it kind of just It works its way, it just kind of too much. I guess I have experienced that I have. Yeah. So never thought about getting a headache from from when cold wind blowing on me. So yeah, something something new to think about. Yeah. It's my heads are awesome. Yeah. Good. You know a lightweight fabric, that's gonna block the wind and So, like, we were talking about, sometimes a very light rain jacket can can do that, won't breathe, as

Tayson: well as a, you know, anything else, that's not waterproof. But so what would be don't like what are things that you wouldn't want to be in the wind in? Thanks

Tayson: is just really are permeable. Please three so well, so that are will really cut right through that. So you'll feel like you're getting robbed or like because it's this warm thick heavy, not really, really heavy but You're sending in the car feeling, nice and warm with your thick fleas, but then the wind blows and it'll just kind of blow right through it. So I ordered it and sweaters and stuff like that. Yeah I was gonna say I put a plug in

Tayson: for any type of fabric all so that holds on to moisture more soon as the wind hits five real cold and so cute out of you really fast. Yeah. Yeah I think the big thing is they're looking for something with a tighter weave on it. Any Coatings, you know like rain jacket or something like that. That's gonna cut the wind a little bit too. A down jacket or something. Loft tech jacket, you know, those are going to have a little bit

Tayson: of coating, a tighter weave, plus that insulation Gap, and two layers of fabric, two layers of fabric, which I think is why the three of us that were four of us on. Now three of us that were hiking in like that Ventus Hoodie that ends up being a really good wind piece, both mine and Maddie's were Uncoded. So what kind of get into it but their prototypes that won't be exactly. Where is Derek had one with just got a very light

Tayson: acrylic coating on it and Because you've got tight, we've fabric a little bit of insulation in another tight we fabric they end up cutting the wind pretty well now. Yes like a windbreaker or rain jackets going to cut the wind completely and better but those are going to be significantly better and I still really prefer them for the most part compared to anything more like a fleece or a weave or like an open weave. And you know the hoodies are actually

Tayson: really interesting because we talked about how you know, they're really good at breaking the wind. But at the same time we've talked about before how they're really breathable. I think we hit on that really hard last trip. Last time we were testing out these these studies and I think it's interesting that they can, they can be both. You, but you can feel it if you, you know, are moving around and you lift your arm, but at all or something, you're climbing

Tayson: up a rock, you feel that wind hit that side panel. That doesn't have any insulation or those perforated Vents and you're in your armpits and you can feel that cold air immediately or if you have that quarter zip in the front undone at all. and you feel it and I even felt it, you know, when I was Kind of back Camp. I was testing some things out a little bit. When I would just, you know, bend my arm and try to

Tayson: get the fabric to stretch, over my arm, as it stretched tighter than you could definitely feel more of the cold coming through. And so, you know, that goes back to that active, breathability that we've kind of builds, and it's really, really unique. Yeah. Last thing, I'll touch on. We have already touched on hoods, that's a really big one. But one thing that I have been more and more aware of, I think this winter season, where I've got a big beard. I

Tayson: often forget things like a neck gaiter. I'm always like, I'm fine. I'm fine, I'm fine. But when you get out there in the wind, especially in that cold wind, having a hit your face having at your cheeks. It really likes option. Kind of give you wind burn almost. It's not as pleasant. And so that's something to consider when you're going out there and it's high wind, or it's cold. And it's high, wind, is something like the neck gaiter Brigham. You are

Tayson: using a neck gaiter. And it just having even that, you know, that very light fabric on on your cheeks and face makes a massive massive difference. It's kind of the difference between like my hands when I started using my trekking poles, I had them on my pack for a while and then I pulled them off its for using them. And second I started using them I didn't have my hands in my pockets anymore and almost instantaneously just that cold in my

Tayson: bare skin, could just zap. You write out of them and so I had to put a glove liner on and just that tiny, tiny extra little bit of fabric made a world of difference. So I think the big thing there is just think in terms of no bare skin, on top of things that are going to break the wind. So that was the other thing. I forgot is the gloves. My hands were pretty good until like I don't remember I made

Tayson: a comment about it but he has a pretty good and then all sudden They got really cold and so it's just a bare skin. Like what the wind like 40 degrees and wind. cold, especially when you're like, holding onto trekking poles or you know, you're kind of Squeezing something. So your knuckles are kind of exposed and it's pretty remarkable. The difference between 40 degrees cloudy and windy versus 40 degrees in the sunlight. It feels like a 20 degree swing. So Yeah,

Tayson: something else to consider. So anyways we've probably made this trip sound like it's way Technical and it's super windy and wasn't that much fun. But honestly, I think everyone was having a really good time mainly because the views were super. Super impressive. Yeah, just any thoughts on the location where hiking we ended up hiking. I was actually going to pull the mileage, but I think we were probably hiked about three miles three or more depending on how many, how much bobbing

Tayson: and weaving. We did that first day. But any thoughts on just the location and sights and What happened on having fun?

Brigham: I thought it was really cool how we were able to, you know, have one view on one Ridge. No, not that first Ridge. And then we came back across the second side and had the whole other view. Being on top of that Mesa like we were that was one of my favorite parts of just being able to see you know the 360 view being up on top of there.

Tayson: Yeah, we were we were pretty high up but what was cool to me to see was that you know, even though we were so high up and we had this amazing view of all kinds of country around us and kind of the greater Zion area was that they're still plenty of these other things to look at on the horizon. These great big tall mountains of the Pine Valley, they're covered in snow and then a little bit to the east of them.

Tayson: You've got Zion and all these huge red, Sandstone, Cliff faces and very dramatic looking, but it looked really good. And as high up, as we were there still things that were taller than us that you can see adding to this beauty. And then these valleys below and in between, I don't know, he's just kind of this I don't know, just this kind of crazy views almost the whole time. I agree. It was There was just so much variety to the view.

Tayson: It was very expansive. Like, everywhere, you looked at was like above the ground. Level was just like, every direction was expansive, and it was all different to paint the picture a little bit. We we hiked up onto a Mesa that kind of ran East West, and it was like a very wide. So, for the listener that kind of gives you like when Maddie talks about, we hiked along one side of the, the Mesa. Um, that was kind of like the way

Tayson: out or to the campsite or whatever we hiked. A good portion of the length of that whole Mesa. And so like the whole time we had this amazing view to the it's like to the north I guess. And then As we made our camp and made our way. Back the next day we're looking to the South. It was like you can see really really far but just look totally different than the other direction and Then the other thing that I thought

Tayson: was cool was like on the Mesa, you would not know what it looks like from below. Yeah, so a lot of those Mason's, they're all beautiful and you're driving down the highway and they all look very similar. and you would think that maybe they'd be similar, but like, We last year we hiked on Mesa, just to the east of there. It looks totally different than oh yeah. We looked at last week. It was just like Just look totally flat from the

Tayson: road, and they are like relatively flat, but like, this was, it was just cool like to see the variety and how, like, a lot of plant life, but it's kind of desert plant life. And then there were just these big old Like Globs of rock, you know, I don't know, like, how to describe they were, they were almost white or light gray and they weren't like the Sandstone Red Rock. It was, it was cool because we just kind of like weaved

Tayson: in and out of them. We were kind of joking that we all wish we were geologists and how we all have like this interest in these rock formations because they are super, super unique. I'd say probably my favorite thing about hiking in this spot and I think we even talked about this briefly while we're on, our hike is so often. When you're just down in the city, like the weather just shows up like you're just there you're in sometimes you're in

Tayson: your office or even like a cedar in your backyard. You can't see. Like very far before you just see trees or buildings or different things. And so you check the weather to see what's coming. Whereas we're up on this Mesa we're looking over at Pine Valley Mountain. Which we did. We have some podcasts on that when we threw High about 35 miles of that mountain range which was really, really fun. It's really fun to like to drive past that and look

Tayson: at that all the time. Like man, we've been up on that Peak and that Peak. And we've hiked all the way from here, and Next to no one can say that they've done that just because it's not a thing. Like we kind of made it a thing, maybe, maybe some Horsemen and stuff like that. I've done that before. But I doubt very many people, just walked it. And so that's always fun. But I think what was cool and what I really

Tayson: enjoy A lot of times whether it be higher elevations in the summer, whether it be where we were out on this one, as I love watching the weather show up. So you know as we were going we turn and we could see this kind of wall of fog and clouds and stuff that we're rolling towards us and we could watch it. Develop. And I just enjoy that, we could see it going over. The top of these mountains, we could see it,

Tayson: you know, dropping snow. And there's something that I just really enjoy. That's a big passion of mine, just to watch nature, whether it be animals, Wildlife, or they're just be things like the weather. So it's a really cool view as we're walking along. We're looking at this big mountain range for looking back at Zion. We're watching the weather unfold, and it was, it was, it was just a really fun hike. I felt like I just really enjoyed the views and the

Tayson: look of it. So,

Brigham: yeah. And watch the, the weather dissipate too. Like, you know, we watched that wall of snow and rain whatever we think we were watching, you know? But as it got closer to us, we got to see like it kind of fizzle out. And I just thought that was cool, too. That was cool.

Brigham: And now I was a pretty,

Tayson: some places where is lucky. We the next morning, woke up and saw the fresh snow and some of the places that weather had been the night before, Especially on the Pine Valley Mountain Range. There was just covered in. A bunch of new snow. Yeah. Yep. So we hiked in, we kind of walked to the very edge of the Mesa to the basically to a point where Ledges up and you can You can stick your leg off both sides almost of the

Tayson: of the Mesa and then we came back. We found a place to Camp that night and we were all using trekking pole tent setups. I mean bring him out. One person trekking pole tents Derek Maddie had a two-person this was kind of your guys's first experience with the two person. So what were your thoughts on using that tricking pool tent? so my initial thoughts is it was, you know, when we've gone back in before, you know, just on our own trips,

Tayson: I've always taken like a like a Like a Dominion or a tentative stands up on its own, you know. For free standing. I guess this is the the right term for that. And the biggest thing I know this is because I'm using the one, the carries that is the way different. Yeah, Dragon Ball fan so much lighter than a 2% free standing tent. So that was the first thing and then we get a set of up and and initially before setting

Tayson: up on my God, this might take a little bit more work than a free-standing tent to get up and ready. Honestly, it really wasn't. It was You know,

Brigham: I thought it was just as fast, I mean, we've taken the outdoor. Vitals two person tent out, just on our own before, as well with the trekking, pole tent. I was surprised at how fast it went up, you know, you just pull it all the sides and stick them in and go out the hook, all the individual hooks on around the poles and I thought it was cool.

Tayson: Yeah, we were also pleasantly surprised by the amount of space. And compared to. And this is again compared to the Dominion which is another great tent. Like, the Dominion is awesome for a freestanding tent but compared to the space that's in the Dominion which I would say already has more space than a lot of other brands. I was intense well this tracking poll to percent at even more space. It felt like so when we got you know, everything staked out correctly and and

Brigham: that's because it has partially, because it has a vaulted, what do you call the part that pulls out by the headspace?

Tayson: Sabol. On the tenth angle. A little bit. So you get more head and elbow space on the tent. So the top of essentially, the top of the tent is slightly bigger than the bottom of the tent. Yes,

Tayson: We really enjoyed that trekking pool tank quite a bit. Actually. yeah, I mean Something, I think I touched on the last trip was just getting out of the wind. So after we set up our tents, we went over had a really good view of Zion. We had our dinner, we didn't last too long out there we all kind of retired back to our tents pretty quick. I mean it was it was pretty dang cold. I had more The hardest time that

Tayson: I've had lighting my alcohol in my alcohol stove and I've had it in colder situations for sure, but kind of that combination of that cold wind and using titanium pots. I can't even pots are amazing because they're so light but they also can change temperature. Really, really quick. You pour something hot on them, they heat up super fast for some cold in them. They're instantly cold and so that wind hitting the titanium I think cool down my alcohol even more and

Tayson: I had a little bit of trouble just kind of getting a lit. So it was definitely cold stained a little bit windy, we had our food talked for a while and then we all retired for tents to get out of the Wind. I think I called over. I think you guys made it back in your house first on like was it was a lot better like when you're out of the wind and you guys were like, yeah, it's nice. Yeah. It's

Tayson: significantly, it's amazing. And I talked about this on a little bit on our past podcast and again this this trip may end up, I don't know. A lot of times we get on the podcast it just really becomes a thing of learn from our mistakes. Learn from things. We like we don't like. So this is all just really valuable information for you guys and hopefully this really educates you to why Four Season backpacking. is is a good idea and why it's

Tayson: a lot of fun and why you shouldn't have to turn off your hobby during that winter season, but I just got tarp on that last step. I didn't get a pitch to the ground, just a different that even having a little bit of ability for air to get in and through your shelter. It makes a significant difference on warmth even though those Fabrics are like 15 denier, nylon Fabrics, right there. They are Nick Fabrics. They have a significant ability to block

Tayson: the wind and my blocking that wind. It has a massive difference in the level of warmth. So if you haven't listened to that episode jet, that was two episodes ago. So go go find that additional talk a lot more about how much having the bad pitch with the tarp. I mean not helping my other day I was at home and my wife was using our oven and had like the convection, you know, the fan blowing in the oven. I don't know

Tayson: anything about cooking so I don't know why I'm talking about cooking right now, but essentially, when you're using a convection oven, right? Like it speeds up the cooking process by like, I don't know, it's like double I could be totally wrong could be three times could be half, I don't know. But let's say double but just by having a fan and they're moving that are around, And so think about that in Reverse by having a fan blowing cold air around, it

Tayson: does that much more to zap the Heat and pull that heat from you. And so my preference and anyone going out there is use a shelter that you can get real nice and snug to the ground after I'd pitched my shelter, I actually went back lowered, my Trucking pulls another inch or so just to Snug it closer to the ground and try to eliminate drafts, which was worthwhile because we had wind for a good portion of that night. I don't know

Tayson: when it stopped but it stayed with us well, past when I went to sleep. So, So let's talk a little bit about what setups you're using inside the tent. I

Tayson: think I was only one with the top quilt my right. Everyone else is just using Summit sleeping bags. And Had any issues sleep, warm sleep cold. I'm super warm. I had to take off layers. I wore too many to bend the first place. Better than the alternative. He's getting cold and trying to reheat, right? Yeah.

Brigham: So I think Derek had a zero degree Summit and I had a -15. Is that what I had? Yeah.

Brigham: And I would say it was perfect for me. So, um, and everyone's would always says, you know, women sleep colder, or they're they're just cooler, they need more to warm up and I think that was definitely true in this trip. That was the perfect bag for what it was outside with the wind and everything that

Tayson: the temperatures drop pretty low. That, I don't know exactly what they got, but I know the forecast before. So I was gonna get down to me about 20 degrees. Add the wind chill. Yeah, I got pretty cold. And so, I mean, if women you factor in the usually sleep, 10 to 20 degrees, You know, warmer than or colder than men and negative 15 was a great. Well, and I think a thing to consider here, probably the bigger thing to consider here

Tayson: is you guys were on our Outdoor Vitals pads. Yeah, 20 degrees is starting to get to the Limit and then you add in wind and so it doesn't matter how cold how much, how much more cold that sleeping bag would have been. You wouldn't have been able to overcome that path, so you have to pad down to the Limit. And so if it had gotten any colder wouldn't have mattered the sleeping bag was was rated for colder. Your pad would have

Tayson: started to, to started to zap that heat from you. So just something to consider that's why, you know, a lot of us when we're going out in these Sports season conditions, we are running an extra pad, a close-up foam pad or or upgrading a pad to a true Four Season higher R-value pad, so something something to consider there. oh man, I have thought while you're while you're talking about that, but I think that the like you said with it was, if

Tayson: you get down to 20. Oh yeah, this is what I was thinking. I really interesting thing in the morning which I don't want to fast forward to the morning just yet, but I had two bottles of water in my tent. One bottle of water was actually in my boot, which I thought would be insulated and help it not freeze overnight. And one was just in a place in my tent that wasn't as close to the edge of the pan wasn't as

Tayson: directly in line with any wind. Whereas I kind of have my boot out towards the end of a vestibule. I thought it was really interesting because one was a one liter bottle. And that was the one that was kind of in the center of the tent. One was a leader and a half of water and that was on the boot towards the edge of the tent outline, the vestibule. And in the morning, I went to make a hot drink and my

Tayson: One. My leader and a half was in the boot, which I thought would help insulate, it that bottle was frozen, had a really good crust of ice on it whereas my smaller one liter bottle that was just sitting more out of the wind was completely unfrozen. Now when I poured that bottle into my my titanium stove, it was freezing like as it was hitting the pan, it was turning to slush. But I think that was like it maybe a good indicator

Tayson: looking back. Now it just a difference of being like in the wind versus out of the wind and that wasn't even in the windows still in the vestibule. But it was just really kind of down on where the wind was was the most drafty part of the tent. I would say. And so I think that did have an effect and maybe I'm missing something that maybe the boot had to play in there, but I would have thought the boot would have

Tayson: just kept it more insulated and so the less insulated, so, Kind of a quick. Couple second thought on being even that much in the win versus completely out of the wind, that's it adds up in it, it steals that heat. So So I had actually grabbed a top quilt and not only, did I grab one of our? I grabbed a zero degree down top quilt and not only that I grabbed a regular size 0 degree, top quilt and set the long

Tayson: wide and I I'm over six foot, I usually go a long way in any of our products. And I was pretty nervous as we were like making dinner. I'm like why didn't I grab a sleeping bag like with an amount of wind? Let the drafts that could be there and all this, you know, additional stuff. You could tell he was scared because he kept mentioning This is gonna be a rough night comments like that. I, I was, I was very skeptical.

Tayson: I was like, why did I do this last trip? I had a pretty cool night, and I could have fixed it, you know, and then I instead of coming back on this trip and and doing something different, and just making sure I had a nice warm night, I grabbed the top quilt. And so after dinner, I walked up on the ridge made a call. freeze and came back to my tent, got in, pull out the top quilt and Like I said,

Tayson: pulled it out before to Loft it, but I kind of laid in there and those are some long nights. So, again, tip to download movies or or I don't know. What do you bring solitary on your phone? I don't know if you even talked to you the whole night or these places just

Tayson: anyways. So I kind of got in there and was laying in the top coils and it was pretty cool. I was, I was getting a little bit nervous. So Two things I guess to cover one. What I ended up doing is, I didn't bring pad straps either. So what I did is, I fully buckled the top quilt. So I reached down I climb completely out of top quilt and buckled, both of the snaps, and then I just shimmied my way all

Tayson: the way into the top quilt. And then, I did the classroom on the neck and since it up and I was basically in like, the tightest mommy bag that I've ever slept in, but, it really sealed out the drops because before I did that, I was laying there and kind of watching stuff on my phone and if any part of that top quilt started to drift away and not be like tucked underneath me. I can fill it almost instantly because everything's

Tayson: magnified when there's just that much are circulating and I could fill the drafts so quickly, and like, oh, I needed, you know, tuck that in. And so what I did that I was amazed, I mean, it was the tightest, like, say let me back I've ever slept in, but I will tell you this, for those of you that have been out there and you're like, man, I could never sleep, you know, and as tiny little tight moving bag, it's the worst,

Tayson: set it up, I'll tell you this, I would 100% 10 times out of 10 times, rather sleep warm. And super tight mummy bag, then cold and a very large spacious bag. And the bigger your bag is the more you have the heat. But also with specialty top quilt, it's just more about the traffic side of things. So I had that thing. Nice and cinched up. I slept fine. I slept warm actually had a very good night's sleep. I just had to

Tayson: keep my arms pinned in my side or across my chest, and, but it was well worth it. And I actually had a really good night's sleep. The other thing I just wanted to talk about here though, it might be a good time to start teasing. This out is I would have been sleeping in a prototype top quilt, but we're still locking in the long white sizing, but we do have a new top quilt, the regulars ready to go and I have

Tayson: no idea when this is going to hit. We'll just say, let's just call it The summer late summer, we've done some tweaks to the top quilt that are gonna really help with drafts, are going to really help with overall function and sealing it. And Just use just the end use and so be on the lookout for that. If I had had one of those newer, designed top quilts, I would have been a lot less nervous about, sealing it out, and being

Tayson: comfortable and not, and I wouldn't have had to fill nearly as much, like I was in the tight mummy bag, you know, watered up in a felt like I was like, rolled up in a towel just like that. Bear burrito and caterpillar. Hey my cocoon. And um so just a couple of thoughts there, the top quilt it did work for me. I I would typically advise, I mean my personal preference is that you know that time of year, I would be

Tayson: Bitching. I typically like to use a sleeping bag but depending on how good you are and how comfortable you are at sealing your top quilt, it absolutely will work in the fourth season. So, All right, that's my two cents on my gear sleeping with any other thoughts. I guess. As far as sleeping setups or how the night went everyone sleep. All right. Yeah. I was on a prototype pad. Yeah, that's right. I was fortunate because it's a I was pleased that

Tayson: well on that pad, it was Comfortable. It was warm definitely didn't have any heat loss which is kind of obviously what we're addressing with the pad. But I'm still not. That was a really that was a great trip for that path. Testing wise because we had wind, which when you have three plus inches of space between you and the ground. A wind is going to basically suck the heat from underneath you and so was a good. It was a good test

Tayson: and I was on a little bit. I learned like my upper half was a little bit like tilted to one side, I was level as a whole, but I kind of like had to keep switching sides all night, but if you never slept in a hammock that would have, you know, be gone back problems. We'll get you, we'll get you this summer to make a requirement anyways, now, that I don't want to talk too much about the pad just because it

Tayson: is a ways off still, but I would say this that we're really onto something that's going to be warmer lighter and more comfortable, which I don't know what else you got out of a pad. So I'm definitely stoked to keep that prototype. You know, moving forward and get it out into your guys's hands. So something to look forward to quite a ways down the road. We'll kind of keep you updated as we get a little bit farther in. But definitely need

Tayson: some more prototypes before able to move forward and it's more testing. So we'll keep going on these trips I suppose. Okay, well the next morning we got up, you guys unwisely followed me in circles around the Mesa. Well, I tried to follow a map that was not fully accurate and we missed a couple turns, but overall, got back to the truck about when we needed to and how to get how to get time. We did walk down the other side of

Tayson: the Mesa had a drastic. Be different View. But it was definitely fun to walk, back towards Zion. I feel like and be looking kind of that opposite direction as well. Was a very pretty view as we as we were looking back in that direction but Weather was much nicer too. Like that morning was sun came up. It was really nice. There wasn't any wind and there was like not a cloud in the sky so hiking weather was great. Yeah I thought

Brigham: Even before the sun came up one of the best parts of the of really any trip for me, was the Stars the night before. I'm not sure how many of you guys came out of your your tent but, you know, got to see a couple shooting stars and just be out away from. I mean, here in Cedar City, we we still got a lot more stars then and in a bigger city, but it's always amazing. How many more stars you can

Brigham: see when you're out away from everything.

Tayson: Totally. I probably shouldn't mention this. I don't know if I want to make this bold of a statement on the podcast, but I may have eaten my last Mountain House. I had a mountain house meal in the morning and Did not sit, right? I I've been eating the peak refuel meals and I absolutely love those things and ever since I started there are a little bit more money but once I started eating those, I've pretty much not eaten any mountain houses.

Tayson: Since now some people eat Mountain houses they love them. They sit well with them and and they're cheaper. So we still offer them on the website. We still order them. Still a product that many of you guys like, and they've been around forever. It's hard to hard to argue with that. But I woke up and I had a like a breakfast hash or something like that for Mountain House. They've been sitting in my basement for a while. I'm like I got

Tayson: to eat this thing because I've just put them on the back burner. So we have those Peak refuel meals and I ate one, I didn't even finish it, which is very uncharacteristic for me. And finish it. We hiked out, as we farther, we hiked the started to fill a little bit worse and worse and Got in the truck got home. I think Maddie made the comment. Like man, I could go for another hike right now and I got out of the

Tayson: truck and I'm like oh my gosh something's wrong with me. I could not go for another hike right now. Signing off for about an hour and ended up going home and it was pretty sick. Like I didn't, I did not feel well for the next two days and had nothing to do with the mountain house, to be honest. But I caught some kind of a little bug or something and But nonetheless, it didn't make me want to go eat more mountain

Tayson: houses. So I may have eaten my last night. I said on the trail I'm like I'm gonna bring in any mountain house I have, I'm just gonna give them to people in the office because I think I'm I think I'm past it for me personally and how my body handles them. So you're gonna have like, a negative associative memory of that house. Yeah, I got food poisoning a few years ago and I had eaten a Burger King before I was what

Tayson: the poisoning wasn't for Burger King, right, Burger King. I had for lunch the day before like all the symptoms. Yeah. Yeah. Just destroyed me for like 24 hours but so now like the thought of eating, the Burger King is like I couldn't do. It couldn't do it to this. I can smell and taste it come out. That's me with pizza that has any kind of white sauce and so instead of like yeah, that's good but because of that but to be

Tayson: fair, when I got food poisoning or something from it, it very well could have been because of pizza. I ate it, it was probably on me, but it probably been sitting out of the gas station for a while. Definitely not on the gas station. That's not Yeah, so I have nothing to do with mountain houses. Keep eating Mountain houses, if that's your thing, but yeah. For me though, I still can't eat Trix cereal. I had like one time in my life.

Tayson: Got sick as a kid. Never never eat that stuff again. It's pretty good. Yeah, now I'm old, it's not for me anymore. Right? It's for kids. So, um, on that note, I guess I'm I'll start off. Kind of a what we call that a fire fire around where you just fire off answers, but I'm gonna mix it up a little bit. I'm gonna ask. What is your favorite? Backpacking food? So go around the circle here. Tell us your favorite backpacking food.

Tayson: Matty, looks like she's ready to go.

Brigham: Well, I mean, The funny thing is is that kind of something I've been sharing with the office lately is that I always have a full pack of snacks. everywhere I go like you won't catch me without snacks as I really don't know if I could choose

Tayson: a favorite, is that what that red bag is? Yeah,

Tayson: that was Really cool. Yeah,

Tayson: that's an emergency kit. Wow.

Brigham: Different kinds of protein bars. We like Luna bars and Clif bars. Um yeah.

Tayson: Ain't nobody like a hangry hiker.

Brigham: Nobody likes the hangry Maddie like just in general. So like goes beyond the hiking, but yeah, I would just say protein bars, things like that really easy just to grab and snack on while you're hiking

Tayson: For me, I like there's a couple things I really like the beef stroganoff. Peak refuel meal. I had that was really, really good but I don't know, it's kind of a toss-up between that and Maddie's homemade trail mix. She made it was not at all like any film makes you'd find anywhere, but I'll tell you what, that stuff was good. I had like Goldfish crackers. Nuts different nuts in there and like white chocolate chips and just like you couldn't really make

Tayson: this if you wanted to because he was just like, whatever was in the pantry. Yeah. You

Tayson: like that bars. You took the Pine Valley. Oh those balls. That's what I thought your name because those were good. You also has made these homemade like protein power. Yeah.

Tayson: They taste like no bake cookies, they're amazing.

Brigham: I know everyone likes him. I'll just have to bring him next.

Tayson: Citizen. Yeah, if I had all the time in the world, I would love making backpacking food like to get a freeze dryer and to do it all myself, I think would be super fun. Sweet. I freeze dryer is like high up on my list but I just stopped in time to ever utilize one. So then it's like that at the time, I don't want to just

Brigham: add it to my job description

Tayson: to me. What I already have a guy's name is Peter refuel so but no, I think it's, I think it's way cool and people are like way into making food and I think you guys are listening and just waiting to that be fun to bring on and just talk through that because some people I think could really gravitate towards that. Yeah, actually, I love it. I think I know what you're about to say. Your favorite food is Brigham. Can I make

Tayson: a guess? Yeah, I bet you're wrong but go ahead. Okay. Okay, mangoes Dragon goes. Yeah. No, yeah I was gonna refuel is great for a meal and my favorite part is that they take like, way less water. Yes. But like higher calories, less water. Okay. Calories more protein, they don't clean ingredients but use like half the water. So like that's literally a couple of water left that I have to carry. Or that I carry but can drink instead of eat anyway.

Tayson: Peak. Refuel. I like it. It's, it's good. But yeah. I once I opened mangoes. I can't stop. I can't stop until they're gone

Brigham: that way you denied me when I offered you one.

Tayson: What this heard? You Dragon mangoes.

Tayson: Oh. It's probably calculated. Yeah. Because then what would have happened is I would have liked Been angry that I didn't have mangoes Maury. So you bring your own makeup.

Tayson: I love. I love mangoes. Yeah, I thought you were gonna say like something really unhealthy like gummies or peanut butter cups because I like that too. But mangoes, I can't stop. Yeah, you do. You do love any kind of gummies? My favorite is I this year I got ahead of the schedule and I basically packaged up like 10 plus days worth of food all at once, and then anytime we're going out. I just grabbed one, one day's worth of the food

Tayson: and I still have some of these pre-packaged ones. And inside of those, I have like my really lightweight food. I've got my high caloric food and then I've got like a tiny little box of like my goodies and so inside of that, I've typically got a few dried mangoes. Fruit snacks and I've got chocolate. I've had Dove chocolate, but I but I'm gonna change that and this is what I'm gonna go with. For this one is I really enjoy having a

Tayson: little bit of chocolate out there on the trail. It's just something that's like usually I'll eat at the end of the day it's just kind of the satisfying end of the day ritual I guess for me to have a piece of chocolate and they go really good with the mangoes which is That's why I knew you were thinking about it. As that was one of the first things I thought about like this man, mangoes is probably my favorite thing to take

Tayson: out on the trail but Anyone who got a Shadowlight, should have got a bar of JoJo's chocolate, this dark chocolate with whey protein, and peanut butter, and stuff in it, and it's super good. So I'm gonna go with that. That was my gift to anyone who ordered the Shadowlight and I'd look him up. It's actually a really close personal friend of mine that started the company, and they've just blown up. And so, I've really enjoyed their products. So I

Tayson: like having chocolate out on the trail and mangoes and if I can eat them together, that's Something I do as well. The other thing I do mix though is banana chips. And peanut butter packets. So a lot of people like, try to get. Yeah. Try a lot of people like candy, a million, like, just packets of peanut butter or they get like the almond butter. Almond butter doesn't sit super well with me because it's something I'd never have on a daily

Tayson: basis, but I just get the packets of peanut butter, they're super cheap. And then you get some banana chips, which is like the cheapest, dried food you can get and you mix those and it makes the whole different Dynamic too. So Is going to throw a bonus one out there. So I Have the the mountain off Slumber? Yeah. I that's like, that's like my runner up because that night I do not, I don't do well staying in bed for like that

Tayson: long when we got, I don't know. I think I got an attend to like 7:30 or something typically like to sit around a fire and hang out and that's a long time for me. So I like looked at pictures on my phone. I think I may have like listen to a podcast or something, but then it like 10:00. I got up which I rarely ever do. So I got up when I looked at the stars and then when I came back

Tayson: in my tent, I turned on my stove and the vestibule, you know, some water. He was saying, it's all right, we don't recommend this. We do not advise it. We just do it. I took the rest of starting up, my stove, and heating up some water and made some of that. Sleepy chai and it was, it was so enjoyable. That was like just the perfect way to end the night and It was. You did mention that following morning just that concept

Tayson: of drinking like a hotter drink and then getting into bed and I think that that has an effect on going to bed warmer and yeah. so, All right, that one actually took a while to go through so we'll go a little bit quicker this time maybe we'll go with your favorite piece of gear and a gear piece or gear, an item that you could have left behind. So let's, Let's go through both of them at the same time. So answer like

Tayson: your favorite piece of gear on the trip and then what you could have left behind on the trip. So everyone wants to go first, just go I've got it. Favorite piece of gear meant to City, super comfortable, black, the wind coming more on my left it, but I should have left behind the camera, tripod, tripod on all of our trips. I'm using bringing all this camera gear and all this extra stuff because, you know, we're filming this or that and, you

Tayson: know, we always just use it. But I brought the tripod this time, which is, you know, a significant amount of weight and just bulky inside of my pack. Did not need it at all. And so I would love that behind and probably all. So, one of the cameras also could have Only, that's for sure.

Brigham: Okay, I'll switch the question a little bit to my favorite gear that I brought change and something that I additional that. I wish I would have brought and this will kind of go to the beginning. I'm gonna go with Derek. My favorite was the Ventus Hoodie. All of the Shadow light was a really close second, but I wish I would have brought another pair of pants or like a different worn. It started with the different pair of pants or something like

Brigham: that. To kind of help with the wind know. It would have been a little more windy or something.

Tayson: If you're ready, man, I can go. Shoot. I just I just lost it. I had no because I had two that were my favorite. I used everything I brought so well, other than like little first aid stuff, but Favorite piece of gear, I would say on. On this one will probably be. The path, I'd say the backpack but that's almost always my favorite piece of gear. So I'm You can't you can't name it things that you've created. I'll go well It's

Tayson: quite can't name anything. You know. Here's plain favorites. Darth knock but I would say I can't follow that rule, it's not possible. But well, yeah, just be Slim Pickens but the pad, I really enjoyed the pad. One thing that I would leave behind for this particular trip. But I couldn't really because I have to, for my job, like test, everything so I would leave the rain jacket behind. Yeah, that's I used everything. So I have to have to pick one thing.

Tayson: I'd leave behind it. Would be didn't

Tayson: need, it'd be the rain jacket

Tayson: this morning. No, I still like the ideas taking a 7 oz, ranger jacket. Yeah yeah. Good saying, all these details. So my favorite piece of gear. That was kind of thinking through just something that I was like how to Epiphany moment where I was like, man, I'm so glad I brought this. It would be, I went and started my dinner and then I went back and I zipped on the zip off Dragon Ball. Pieces. Which again, if you haven't seen those

Tayson: good, check him out. And then I went back and sat down and just instantly out of a warmth level, like instantly added a warm level for that. Win that having two layers of clothing on like that. And so there's just that was probably the most noticeable thing when I was like as soon as I started using it as soon as I put them on, just like that is nice. So dragonwall was gonna be my favorite piece of gear for that trip.

Tayson: The boss in particular, what I could have left behind was definitely my healing Ox chair. I've gotten in the habit of bringing, you know, that it's actually a hybrid between two different chair manufacturers, but I'll call it a healing box chair, gotten a habit of bringing that it's, you know, 15 oz and It's not a lot of value but in this particular setting, we just we weren't sitting out very long. It was windy, it was cold. And the reason is that

Tayson: I thought, you know, I really didn't need. This was I had the back panel of the Shadow could have sat on and I also brought an 8 inch close up on pad. And you can easily sit on those. And so I had more than ample things. I could have sat on stayed warm stayed comfortable and so that really was just ended up feeling like dead weight in my pack for how long I sat on a price at all of 10, 10

Tayson: minutes or 15 minutes. So typically I'd sit in the longer. So that's what I would have left behind on this particular trip. So, Okay, well, we've gone through a lot. I think we've gone through everything you need to go through anything, I'm missing. that people need to know about this particular trip or No one little tip. If anybody ever draws a blank on their favorite piece of gear? You know, always fall back on the long handle spoon. Always useful always used.

Tayson: It's true. And if you ever forget your spoon on the trail You will you? you realize how critical of a piece of gear that that spoon is so, I've had moments like that and they're not fun. So, one other thing I just wanted to mention we've, we were kind of looking at different orders and different things this year. And there, if you're listening to the podcast, you're probably a die-hard. So you're the guys that I want to take care of especially,

Tayson: you know, members and there's a good possibility that we're going to have some stockouts on dragon wall over the summer. And I don't know when basically we can't get more inventory for DragonWool and tell closer to the fall. So if you're interested in anything, Dragon will related in particular, don't delay too long, or you might be unhappy and we're just sorry that there's stockouts. We're dealing with all this but with everything going on with covid and the massive increase of

Tayson: demand that we've had for our brand. It's been I won't say it a headache. It's been a good headache for us but still bad that we can't keep things in stock as well as we'd like to for a lot of you loyal people. So here's your warning. Here's your fair warning to act now but With that, thanks for joining us on this podcast. We really do appreciate it. We hope you learned something. That's really why we do. These is to help

Tayson: you help educate you and hopefully inspire you. I know that we all had a great time on this trip. We're already looking forward to next, month's trip. And even, you know, cold North winds and all these different things. I think we all had a really good time and I think everyone that's listening to this podcast. If you don't Four Season backpack for season Camp, you really ought to start considering it minor tweaks, opens up a whole nother Realm of the year

Tayson: and so you can be active in your hobby year out of the seasonal, seasonal Backpacker per se. So Again, thanks for joining us. Make sure you subscribe to the channel. Make sure you leave us a review. If you have not yet, left us a review share this with anyone who would find Value out of it and we'll catch on the next one. Hey everybody. This is Tayson again. And really quick. I wanted to invite you to join, probably the best thing

Tayson: that we've ever put out which is the Live Ultralight membership, buying and affording gear is arguably. The biggest reason that people don't get out and truly enjoy nature. You want to go but you don't trust your gear. It can't handle the expected, weather, or temperature ranges, or you simply don't have the right gear in the first place at all. That's exactly why we created the level of membership. It works a lot. Like, a simple savings account for your gear. You simply

Tayson: Auto load 10 dollars, with store credit into your account every month, and you get instant access to year-round discounts, you get free priority, shipping and prioritize shipping. By the way, early access to New Gear, the world releasing or early access to cells that are going on, you're gonna get limited edition gear. You can get expert, coaching, and access to the obtained inside our closed, Facebook group, which is also gated not. Anyone can join this, right? And something very, very cool where

Tayson: you can now get our most vetted, our favorite gear from other brands that we're not putting on the website but members are going to get it at additional discounts and instant rebates. So, You wanted that new cation, water filter that we've been talking about a ton lately. You can get it with your membership credits and you're also gonna be able to get it with a membership discount and an instant store credit rebate, that's just Auto added to your account. After checkout.

Tayson: This membership has too many amazing things to cover. So what I want to recommend you do right now is stop everything. Pause this audio head over to Outer vitals.com forward slash membership to sign up and start building your credit. We're going to release some new products in there really soon at Big discounts. So go sign up today at Outdoor Vitals.com forward slash membership, and we will catch up inside the closed, Facebook group after that we can continue this conversation over there.